New York Times - "Americans are finally eating less"
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
No, that's from life experience.
Anecdotal evidence usually never agrees with reality. Less than 5% of people who are on food stamps abuse the system.
hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Just to comment on this- not sure "need" is the right word, but yes, they are commonly abused/misused (especially in the area I work in). They are supposed to be used so that you and your family do not go hungry while in an economic hardship. Unfortunately, many people (again int he area I work in, it may differ in other parts of the country) use SNAP benefits and TANF (temporary assistance for needy families/money for basic living) as an alternative to seeking out a way to end their financial hardship. I am not saying that is the case for everyone, but around here, both programs are very abused (along with Medicaid) and it is rather sad. There are many amazing programs in NYC to help get out of a bad situation (and I have utilized a few my self), but to be honest, not many people try to use them. Not saying that to be judgemental of another persons situation, but it is widely known around here that people abuse the system.0 -
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Just to comment on this- not sure "need" is the right word, but yes, they are commonly abused/misused (especially in the area I work in). They are supposed to be used so that you and your family do not go hungry while in an economic hardship. Unfortunately, many people (again int he area I work in, it may differ in other parts of the country) use SNAP benefits and TANF (temporary assistance for needy families/money for basic living) as an alternative to seeking out a way to end their financial hardship. I am not saying that is the case for everyone, but around here, both programs are very abused (along with Medicaid) and it is rather sad. There are many amazing programs in NYC to help get out of a bad situation (and I have utilized a few my self), but to be honest, not many people try to use them. Not saying that to be judgemental of another persons situation, but it is widely known around here that people abuse the system.
I think you mean it's widely -stereotyped- that people abuse welfare.0 -
ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
I'll be honest- no I do not have a citation for that (I know this was not directed at me). As I said in my other post, other areas may be drastically different, but if you spend some time in the areas I work, this is well known and people will actually admit it.0 -
ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
No, that's from life experience.
Anecdotal evidence usually never agrees with reality. Less than 5% of people who are on food stamps abuse the system.
hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths
My life experience leads me to conclude otherwise and a biased website stating they're doing a good job on fraud prevention does not make that go away. Where's the proof that consumer fraud is "dramatically reduced"? There isn't any -- it's wishful thinking.
"FACT: “SNAP has one of the most rigorous quality control systems of any public benefit program,” according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. SNAP fraud has actually been cut by three-quarters over the past 15 years, and the program’s error rate is at an all-time low of less than 3 percent. The introduction of EBT (Electronic Benefit Transfer) cards has dramatically reduced consumer fraud. According to the USDA, the small amount of fraud that continues is usually on the part of retailers, not consumers."
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
No, that's from life experience.
Anecdotal evidence usually never agrees with reality. Less than 5% of people who are on food stamps abuse the system.
hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths
My life experience leads me to conclude otherwise and a biased website stating they're doing a good job on fraud prevention does not make that go away. Where's the proof that consumer fraud is "dramatically reduced"? There isn't any -- it's wishful thinking.
"FACT: “SNAP has one of the most rigorous quality control systems of any public benefit program,” according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. SNAP fraud has actually been cut by three-quarters over the past 15 years, and the program’s error rate is at an all-time low of less than 3 percent. The introduction of EBT (Electronic Benefit Transfer) cards has dramatically reduced consumer fraud. According to the USDA, the small amount of fraud that continues is usually on the part of retailers, not consumers."
I can tell you've never been in the system. I can also tell you didn't click on the links within the site.
Here are more.
usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2013/05/16/facts-show-food-stamp-program-has-a-strong-record-of-efficienty
mediamatters.org/blog/2013/08/19/fox-misleadingly-hypes-13-percent-fraud-in-food/195462
If you don't trust USDA stats, may as well stop logging your food.
Those 2-3 people you may have come across are the slim minority, and you should report their *kitten*.0 -
ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
No, that's from life experience.
Anecdotal evidence usually never agrees with reality. Less than 5% of people who are on food stamps abuse the system.
hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths
That statistic may be accurate for the overall population in the U.S. On food stamps, but there are certainly pockets of populations that have a huge percentage of abuse and the reason the average is so low is due to the rest of the population not abusing them (if that makes sense). Population 1 could have an 80% abuse rate while populations 2-20 have 0-1% abuse rates and it averages out (not saying that is the right math, just giving an example).ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Just to comment on this- not sure "need" is the right word, but yes, they are commonly abused/misused (especially in the area I work in). They are supposed to be used so that you and your family do not go hungry while in an economic hardship. Unfortunately, many people (again int he area I work in, it may differ in other parts of the country) use SNAP benefits and TANF (temporary assistance for needy families/money for basic living) as an alternative to seeking out a way to end their financial hardship. I am not saying that is the case for everyone, but around here, both programs are very abused (along with Medicaid) and it is rather sad. There are many amazing programs in NYC to help get out of a bad situation (and I have utilized a few my self), but to be honest, not many people try to use them. Not saying that to be judgemental of another persons situation, but it is widely known around here that people abuse the system.
I think you mean it's widely -stereotyped- that people abuse welfare.
Nope. Around here they are not exactly shy about sharing that they abuse the system. I see the abuse first hand at work.
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ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
I'll be honest- no I do not have a citation for that (I know this was not directed at me). As I said in my other post, other areas may be drastically different, but if you spend some time in the areas I work, this is well known and people will actually admit it.
No, it's not well -known- it's well -thought-. If people are admitting they are committing illegal acts to you, you can report them.0 -
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ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
No, that's from life experience.
Anecdotal evidence usually never agrees with reality. Less than 5% of people who are on food stamps abuse the system.
hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths
That statistic may be accurate for the overall population in the U.S. On food stamps, but there are certainly pockets of populations that have a huge percentage of abuse and the reason the average is so low is due to the rest of the population not abusing them (if that makes sense). Population 1 could have an 80% abuse rate while populations 2-20 have 0-1% abuse rates and it averages out (not saying that is the right math, just giving an example).ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Just to comment on this- not sure "need" is the right word, but yes, they are commonly abused/misused (especially in the area I work in). They are supposed to be used so that you and your family do not go hungry while in an economic hardship. Unfortunately, many people (again int he area I work in, it may differ in other parts of the country) use SNAP benefits and TANF (temporary assistance for needy families/money for basic living) as an alternative to seeking out a way to end their financial hardship. I am not saying that is the case for everyone, but around here, both programs are very abused (along with Medicaid) and it is rather sad. There are many amazing programs in NYC to help get out of a bad situation (and I have utilized a few my self), but to be honest, not many people try to use them. Not saying that to be judgemental of another persons situation, but it is widely known around here that people abuse the system.
I think you mean it's widely -stereotyped- that people abuse welfare.
Nope. Around here they are not exactly shy about sharing that they abuse the system. I see the abuse first hand at work.
And you do not report them? You can easily file some e-paperwork and get them barred from the system.0 -
You believe the system is corrupt. It's not, but I can't make you see the truth. I'd be more upset at the corporate welfare and millions of dollars that people like Presidential hopeful Donald Trump has gotten that wasn't owed to him due to red tape and shady practices, but instead it is those who are standing in line for bread, milk and OH NO cookies.
I'm not upset about the food stamp program -- food and assistance are the very last thing I want to see reduced for all of the people who truly do need the help and are using the programs as intended. And I would never begrudge a family cookies or any other junk food for that matter.
But that doesn't change the fact that a lot of people do abuse it -- some of the very people calling you up demanding/sobbing/upset about their missing benefits in fact.
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ogmomma2012 wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
I'll be honest- no I do not have a citation for that (I know this was not directed at me). As I said in my other post, other areas may be drastically different, but if you spend some time in the areas I work, this is well known and people will actually admit it.
No, it's not well -known- it's well -thought-. If people are admitting they are committing illegal acts to you, you can report them.
Nope, not "thought". And if I reported everyone that I came across who does it, I'd be reporting a good 20%of people I come across at work. The Medicaid system has an even greater abuse percent. I am glad you seem to live in an area that has a low abuse percent, but that is surly not the same everywhere.It's actually true that the introduction of the EBT carbs has cracked down on much of the fraud and selling of SNAP dollars. Here if you lose your card more than once an investigation is started. What I am more supportive of in terms of the EBT carbs is that unless you are being a Nosey Parker, most of the cards looks just like a debit card. It allows those who receive SNAP to use their card without the judgmental eyes and looks that we've seen discussed here.
In MA there has actually been an over correction when it comes to fraud protection. They put systems in place and didn't test them for problems and errors before rolling it out. As a result more than 10% of people who were actually eligible were being denied their benefits. The state is making an aggressive effort to make sure this is not continuing, but I spend more time than I should on the phone trying to make the state follow the actual law. While this is happening people are not getting the benefits that they need. I have an advocacy lawyer on speed dial and from her report it is not just a random occurrence either.
You believe the system is corrupt. It's not, but I can't make you see the truth. I'd be more upset at the corporate welfare and millions of dollars that people like Presidential hopeful Donald Trump has gotten that wasn't owed to him due to red tape and shady practices, but instead it is those who are standing in line for bread, milk and OH NO cookies.
That may be the case where you live, but around here, there are just too many people receiving help that the abuse falls through the cracks.
Here the card is very different than the look of a debt card. The benefit card is used for Medicaid, TANF, and ebt all on one card.
I never said they shouldn't be allowed cookies, just that a majority of the benefits should be used for more nutrient packed foods instead of the other way around.
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ogmomma2012 wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
No, that's from life experience.
Anecdotal evidence usually never agrees with reality. Less than 5% of people who are on food stamps abuse the system.
hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths
That statistic may be accurate for the overall population in the U.S. On food stamps, but there are certainly pockets of populations that have a huge percentage of abuse and the reason the average is so low is due to the rest of the population not abusing them (if that makes sense). Population 1 could have an 80% abuse rate while populations 2-20 have 0-1% abuse rates and it averages out (not saying that is the right math, just giving an example).ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Just to comment on this- not sure "need" is the right word, but yes, they are commonly abused/misused (especially in the area I work in). They are supposed to be used so that you and your family do not go hungry while in an economic hardship. Unfortunately, many people (again int he area I work in, it may differ in other parts of the country) use SNAP benefits and TANF (temporary assistance for needy families/money for basic living) as an alternative to seeking out a way to end their financial hardship. I am not saying that is the case for everyone, but around here, both programs are very abused (along with Medicaid) and it is rather sad. There are many amazing programs in NYC to help get out of a bad situation (and I have utilized a few my self), but to be honest, not many people try to use them. Not saying that to be judgemental of another persons situation, but it is widely known around here that people abuse the system.
I think you mean it's widely -stereotyped- that people abuse welfare.
Nope. Around here they are not exactly shy about sharing that they abuse the system. I see the abuse first hand at work.
And you do not report them? You can easily file some e-paperwork and get them barred from the system.
I would love to live in a perfect world where reporting the abuse would result in people being barred, but say there are just too many people receiving benefits that reporting barely anything because they are too overloaded to investigate every claim/report/track abuse,
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Seems like people just like to have faith that they are right, instead of accepting the reality of things. I brought proof. You didn't. Own up. Move on.0
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ogmomma2012 wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
No, that's from life experience.
Anecdotal evidence usually never agrees with reality. Less than 5% of people who are on food stamps abuse the system.
hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths
That statistic may be accurate for the overall population in the U.S. On food stamps, but there are certainly pockets of populations that have a huge percentage of abuse and the reason the average is so low is due to the rest of the population not abusing them (if that makes sense). Population 1 could have an 80% abuse rate while populations 2-20 have 0-1% abuse rates and it averages out (not saying that is the right math, just giving an example).ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Just to comment on this- not sure "need" is the right word, but yes, they are commonly abused/misused (especially in the area I work in). They are supposed to be used so that you and your family do not go hungry while in an economic hardship. Unfortunately, many people (again int he area I work in, it may differ in other parts of the country) use SNAP benefits and TANF (temporary assistance for needy families/money for basic living) as an alternative to seeking out a way to end their financial hardship. I am not saying that is the case for everyone, but around here, both programs are very abused (along with Medicaid) and it is rather sad. There are many amazing programs in NYC to help get out of a bad situation (and I have utilized a few my self), but to be honest, not many people try to use them. Not saying that to be judgemental of another persons situation, but it is widely known around here that people abuse the system.
I think you mean it's widely -stereotyped- that people abuse welfare.
Nope. Around here they are not exactly shy about sharing that they abuse the system. I see the abuse first hand at work.
And you do not report them? You can easily file some e-paperwork and get them barred from the system.
I would love to live in a perfect world where reporting the abuse would result in people being barred, but say there are just too many people receiving benefits that reporting barely anything because they are too overloaded to investigate every claim/report/track abuse,
Excuses. You just like proclaiming that abuse is rampant. Having it on file should be the best thing to do. AZ has it's problems don't get me wrong, especially with veterans and child abuse, but if an overhaul is needed it's not the fault of the majority of welfare users who don't abuse the system. It's extremely hard in lots of states to even qualify.0 -
ogmomma2012 wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
No, that's from life experience.
Anecdotal evidence usually never agrees with reality. Less than 5% of people who are on food stamps abuse the system.
hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths
That statistic may be accurate for the overall population in the U.S. On food stamps, but there are certainly pockets of populations that have a huge percentage of abuse and the reason the average is so low is due to the rest of the population not abusing them (if that makes sense). Population 1 could have an 80% abuse rate while populations 2-20 have 0-1% abuse rates and it averages out (not saying that is the right math, just giving an example).ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Just to comment on this- not sure "need" is the right word, but yes, they are commonly abused/misused (especially in the area I work in). They are supposed to be used so that you and your family do not go hungry while in an economic hardship. Unfortunately, many people (again int he area I work in, it may differ in other parts of the country) use SNAP benefits and TANF (temporary assistance for needy families/money for basic living) as an alternative to seeking out a way to end their financial hardship. I am not saying that is the case for everyone, but around here, both programs are very abused (along with Medicaid) and it is rather sad. There are many amazing programs in NYC to help get out of a bad situation (and I have utilized a few my self), but to be honest, not many people try to use them. Not saying that to be judgemental of another persons situation, but it is widely known around here that people abuse the system.
I think you mean it's widely -stereotyped- that people abuse welfare.
Nope. Around here they are not exactly shy about sharing that they abuse the system. I see the abuse first hand at work.
And you do not report them? You can easily file some e-paperwork and get them barred from the system.
I would love to live in a perfect world where reporting the abuse would result in people being barred, but say there are just too many people receiving benefits that reporting barely anything because they are too overloaded to investigate every claim/report/track abuse,
We don't live in a perfect world. If, in our inperfection, we must strike a balance between access for those that need it, and denying the service to those who are fraudulent, I say, I'd rather 1,000 people are unjustly fed, than one child justly starves.0 -
Always interesting seeing the comments on the first page compared to the last and tryin to work out how you got here.
But anyway didn't the article the op linked mention that there was a decrease across the board, rich and poor a like.
So would it just be a increase in cost of living and people are cutting fizzy dinks?
So you got a rich family and they decide to cut back on coke so they can afford a new jet ski?0 -
9% may be a significant statistic, but it hardly is a blip on the reality "scale."0
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ogmomma2012 wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
No, that's from life experience.
Anecdotal evidence usually never agrees with reality. Less than 5% of people who are on food stamps abuse the system.
hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths
That statistic may be accurate for the overall population in the U.S. On food stamps, but there are certainly pockets of populations that have a huge percentage of abuse and the reason the average is so low is due to the rest of the population not abusing them (if that makes sense). Population 1 could have an 80% abuse rate while populations 2-20 have 0-1% abuse rates and it averages out (not saying that is the right math, just giving an example).ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Just to comment on this- not sure "need" is the right word, but yes, they are commonly abused/misused (especially in the area I work in). They are supposed to be used so that you and your family do not go hungry while in an economic hardship. Unfortunately, many people (again int he area I work in, it may differ in other parts of the country) use SNAP benefits and TANF (temporary assistance for needy families/money for basic living) as an alternative to seeking out a way to end their financial hardship. I am not saying that is the case for everyone, but around here, both programs are very abused (along with Medicaid) and it is rather sad. There are many amazing programs in NYC to help get out of a bad situation (and I have utilized a few my self), but to be honest, not many people try to use them. Not saying that to be judgemental of another persons situation, but it is widely known around here that people abuse the system.
I think you mean it's widely -stereotyped- that people abuse welfare.
Nope. Around here they are not exactly shy about sharing that they abuse the system. I see the abuse first hand at work.
And you do not report them? You can easily file some e-paperwork and get them barred from the system.
I would love to live in a perfect world where reporting the abuse would result in people being barred, but say there are just too many people receiving benefits that reporting barely anything because they are too overloaded to investigate every claim/report/track abuse,
We don't live in a perfect world. If, in our inperfection, we must strike a balance between access for those that need it, and denying the service to those who are fraudulent, I say, I'd rather 1,000 people are unjustly fed, than one child justly starves.
Amen to this sentiment, although if a child is starving, that would justify the receiving of benefits, yes?
0 -
Actually, adults in rich families cut back on beverage consumption more than middle and low income by a wide margin, digging into collected data.Always interesting seeing the comments on the first page compared to the last and tryin to work out how you got here.
But anyway didn't the article the op linked mention that there was a decrease across the board, rich and poor a like.
So would it just be a increase in cost of living and people are cutting fizzy dinks?
So you got a rich family and they decide to cut back on coke so they can afford a new jet ski?
0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
No, that's from life experience.
Anecdotal evidence usually never agrees with reality. Less than 5% of people who are on food stamps abuse the system.
hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths
That statistic may be accurate for the overall population in the U.S. On food stamps, but there are certainly pockets of populations that have a huge percentage of abuse and the reason the average is so low is due to the rest of the population not abusing them (if that makes sense). Population 1 could have an 80% abuse rate while populations 2-20 have 0-1% abuse rates and it averages out (not saying that is the right math, just giving an example).ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Just to comment on this- not sure "need" is the right word, but yes, they are commonly abused/misused (especially in the area I work in). They are supposed to be used so that you and your family do not go hungry while in an economic hardship. Unfortunately, many people (again int he area I work in, it may differ in other parts of the country) use SNAP benefits and TANF (temporary assistance for needy families/money for basic living) as an alternative to seeking out a way to end their financial hardship. I am not saying that is the case for everyone, but around here, both programs are very abused (along with Medicaid) and it is rather sad. There are many amazing programs in NYC to help get out of a bad situation (and I have utilized a few my self), but to be honest, not many people try to use them. Not saying that to be judgemental of another persons situation, but it is widely known around here that people abuse the system.
I think you mean it's widely -stereotyped- that people abuse welfare.
Nope. Around here they are not exactly shy about sharing that they abuse the system. I see the abuse first hand at work.
And you do not report them? You can easily file some e-paperwork and get them barred from the system.
I would love to live in a perfect world where reporting the abuse would result in people being barred, but say there are just too many people receiving benefits that reporting barely anything because they are too overloaded to investigate every claim/report/track abuse,
We don't live in a perfect world. If, in our inperfection, we must strike a balance between access for those that need it, and denying the service to those who are fraudulent, I say, I'd rather 1,000 people are unjustly fed, than one child justly starves.
Amen to this sentiment, although if a child is starving, that would justify the receiving of benefits, yes?
Yeah, it just sucks if the 1 parent out of the 2,000 other parents getting food stamps for their children, don't spend it on food for their children. So despite the help, the child is still hungry. The US sucks at helping the poor find their feet and provide resources.0 -
ogmomma2012 wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
No, that's from life experience.
Anecdotal evidence usually never agrees with reality. Less than 5% of people who are on food stamps abuse the system.
hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths
That statistic may be accurate for the overall population in the U.S. On food stamps, but there are certainly pockets of populations that have a huge percentage of abuse and the reason the average is so low is due to the rest of the population not abusing them (if that makes sense). Population 1 could have an 80% abuse rate while populations 2-20 have 0-1% abuse rates and it averages out (not saying that is the right math, just giving an example).ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Just to comment on this- not sure "need" is the right word, but yes, they are commonly abused/misused (especially in the area I work in). They are supposed to be used so that you and your family do not go hungry while in an economic hardship. Unfortunately, many people (again int he area I work in, it may differ in other parts of the country) use SNAP benefits and TANF (temporary assistance for needy families/money for basic living) as an alternative to seeking out a way to end their financial hardship. I am not saying that is the case for everyone, but around here, both programs are very abused (along with Medicaid) and it is rather sad. There are many amazing programs in NYC to help get out of a bad situation (and I have utilized a few my self), but to be honest, not many people try to use them. Not saying that to be judgemental of another persons situation, but it is widely known around here that people abuse the system.
I think you mean it's widely -stereotyped- that people abuse welfare.
Nope. Around here they are not exactly shy about sharing that they abuse the system. I see the abuse first hand at work.
And you do not report them? You can easily file some e-paperwork and get them barred from the system.
I would love to live in a perfect world where reporting the abuse would result in people being barred, but say there are just too many people receiving benefits that reporting barely anything because they are too overloaded to investigate every claim/report/track abuse,
Excuses.You just like proclaiming that abuse is rampant. Having it on file should be the best thing to do. AZ has it's problems don't get me wrong, especially with veterans and child abuse, but if an overhaul is needed it's not the fault of the majority of welfare users who don't abuse the system. It's extremely hard in lots of states to even qualify.
If you really think that my statements are false, I recommend you spend about a week where I work. You would quickly see the abuse first hand. I used to think the same way you do, but after working with the people I work with my mindset changed the more and more I saw abuse of the system.ogmomma2012 wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
No, that's from life experience.
Anecdotal evidence usually never agrees with reality. Less than 5% of people who are on food stamps abuse the system.
hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths
That statistic may be accurate for the overall population in the U.S. On food stamps, but there are certainly pockets of populations that have a huge percentage of abuse and the reason the average is so low is due to the rest of the population not abusing them (if that makes sense). Population 1 could have an 80% abuse rate while populations 2-20 have 0-1% abuse rates and it averages out (not saying that is the right math, just giving an example).ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Just to comment on this- not sure "need" is the right word, but yes, they are commonly abused/misused (especially in the area I work in). They are supposed to be used so that you and your family do not go hungry while in an economic hardship. Unfortunately, many people (again int he area I work in, it may differ in other parts of the country) use SNAP benefits and TANF (temporary assistance for needy families/money for basic living) as an alternative to seeking out a way to end their financial hardship. I am not saying that is the case for everyone, but around here, both programs are very abused (along with Medicaid) and it is rather sad. There are many amazing programs in NYC to help get out of a bad situation (and I have utilized a few my self), but to be honest, not many people try to use them. Not saying that to be judgemental of another persons situation, but it is widely known around here that people abuse the system.
I think you mean it's widely -stereotyped- that people abuse welfare.
Nope. Around here they are not exactly shy about sharing that they abuse the system. I see the abuse first hand at work.
And you do not report them? You can easily file some e-paperwork and get them barred from the system.
I would love to live in a perfect world where reporting the abuse would result in people being barred, but say there are just too many people receiving benefits that reporting barely anything because they are too overloaded to investigate every claim/report/track abuse,
We don't live in a perfect world. If, in our inperfection, we must strike a balance between access for those that need it, and denying the service to those who are fraudulent, I say, I'd rather 1,000 people are unjustly fed, than one child justly starves.
I agree with this, however, when people abuse the system, it leaves less resources for those who really need it.
0 -
I don't know that I've seen the level of judgement on MFP before that I'm seeing on this thread. Apparently there's a lot of hate for the food stamp/EBT/SNAP system. Imagine if you were desperate enough to need it.
When I was 18, I was married, had one baby and another on the way. My husband had just gotten out of the Navy and was working two jobs and struggling to make ends meet. We were on WIC already and barely making it when his father sat us down, told us to swallow our pride, and go on the system until we got on our feet. We were on food stamps for 10 months. Back then they still gave you a book of paper to use at the store, and everyone knew just what you were using to buy food with. We bought good food with it and not a lot of things like pizza and desserts (although we did buy some and why not?), but d*mn it, that's what that stuff is there for, to help families who need help to feed themselves so they don't go hungry. As soon as I could I went to work full-time, and my husband had found a full-time job as well, and we were able to support ourselves. It was a relief.
that being said, the system is being decimated here in Wisconsin. In Milkwaukee, the public transportation system has been mostly destroyed, so that those who live in the inner city who don't have cars can't get to the suburbs, where the good jobs and the good stores are. If they have to take minimum wage jobs, they have to work two and three jobs, and can't be home with their kids. They can't get to the good stores for good food, and they can't be home to cook good meals, so what's the answer?
Oh, and let's not forget that legislators just took a bunch of food off the list for SNAP users in Wisconsin. They can't buy anything organic, anything in bulk, taco shells, soy or almond milk, seafood, and a myriad of other mysterious other things that apparently the state decided they don't need to eat (most of which, wouldn't you think, would be considered 'healthy'?)0 -
ogmomma2012 wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
No, that's from life experience.
Anecdotal evidence usually never agrees with reality. Less than 5% of people who are on food stamps abuse the system.
hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths
That statistic may be accurate for the overall population in the U.S. On food stamps, but there are certainly pockets of populations that have a huge percentage of abuse and the reason the average is so low is due to the rest of the population not abusing them (if that makes sense). Population 1 could have an 80% abuse rate while populations 2-20 have 0-1% abuse rates and it averages out (not saying that is the right math, just giving an example).ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Just to comment on this- not sure "need" is the right word, but yes, they are commonly abused/misused (especially in the area I work in). They are supposed to be used so that you and your family do not go hungry while in an economic hardship. Unfortunately, many people (again int he area I work in, it may differ in other parts of the country) use SNAP benefits and TANF (temporary assistance for needy families/money for basic living) as an alternative to seeking out a way to end their financial hardship. I am not saying that is the case for everyone, but around here, both programs are very abused (along with Medicaid) and it is rather sad. There are many amazing programs in NYC to help get out of a bad situation (and I have utilized a few my self), but to be honest, not many people try to use them. Not saying that to be judgemental of another persons situation, but it is widely known around here that people abuse the system.
I think you mean it's widely -stereotyped- that people abuse welfare.
Nope. Around here they are not exactly shy about sharing that they abuse the system. I see the abuse first hand at work.
And you do not report them? You can easily file some e-paperwork and get them barred from the system.
I would love to live in a perfect world where reporting the abuse would result in people being barred, but say there are just too many people receiving benefits that reporting barely anything because they are too overloaded to investigate every claim/report/track abuse,
Excuses.You just like proclaiming that abuse is rampant. Having it on file should be the best thing to do. AZ has it's problems don't get me wrong, especially with veterans and child abuse, but if an overhaul is needed it's not the fault of the majority of welfare users who don't abuse the system. It's extremely hard in lots of states to even qualify.
If you really think that my statements are false, I recommend you spend about a week where I work. You would quickly see the abuse first hand. I used to think the same way you do, but after working with the people I work with my mindset changed the more and more I saw abuse of the system.ogmomma2012 wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Citation needed. "Frequently sold" do you have statistics for that?
No, that's from life experience.
Anecdotal evidence usually never agrees with reality. Less than 5% of people who are on food stamps abuse the system.
hungercoalition.org/food-stamp-myths
That statistic may be accurate for the overall population in the U.S. On food stamps, but there are certainly pockets of populations that have a huge percentage of abuse and the reason the average is so low is due to the rest of the population not abusing them (if that makes sense). Population 1 could have an 80% abuse rate while populations 2-20 have 0-1% abuse rates and it averages out (not saying that is the right math, just giving an example).ogmomma2012 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »What I find more puzzling about food stamps--I'm not judging, I've just been curious about it--is that I commonly see people (who probably don't live in the neighborhood) using them at the CVS or Walgreens which has really no great food selections and tends to cost more than the Jewel or the like (local supermarket that happens to be really close to the stores I'm talking about). I always wonder why.
Not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. They're frequently sold and/or used as discretionary income -- someone else is supporting them.
Just to comment on this- not sure "need" is the right word, but yes, they are commonly abused/misused (especially in the area I work in). They are supposed to be used so that you and your family do not go hungry while in an economic hardship. Unfortunately, many people (again int he area I work in, it may differ in other parts of the country) use SNAP benefits and TANF (temporary assistance for needy families/money for basic living) as an alternative to seeking out a way to end their financial hardship. I am not saying that is the case for everyone, but around here, both programs are very abused (along with Medicaid) and it is rather sad. There are many amazing programs in NYC to help get out of a bad situation (and I have utilized a few my self), but to be honest, not many people try to use them. Not saying that to be judgemental of another persons situation, but it is widely known around here that people abuse the system.
I think you mean it's widely -stereotyped- that people abuse welfare.
Nope. Around here they are not exactly shy about sharing that they abuse the system. I see the abuse first hand at work.
And you do not report them? You can easily file some e-paperwork and get them barred from the system.
I would love to live in a perfect world where reporting the abuse would result in people being barred, but say there are just too many people receiving benefits that reporting barely anything because they are too overloaded to investigate every claim/report/track abuse,
We don't live in a perfect world. If, in our inperfection, we must strike a balance between access for those that need it, and denying the service to those who are fraudulent, I say, I'd rather 1,000 people are unjustly fed, than one child justly starves.
I agree with this, however, when people abuse the system, it leaves less resources for those who really need it.
I am a person that requires verifiable facts. I do not take anecdotal evidence without a giant lump of salt. If your interaction is primarily with people you won't snitch on for abuse, of course the majority of people in your tiny circle of experience are going to be abusers. So, it would make sense to you to think that way. It is still incorrect.0 -
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/25/upshot/americans-are-finally-eating-less.html?ref=health&abt=0002&abg=1
I'm taking this news optimistically, and hoping the trend will continue.
I would be delighted if that news were true, because there are indications that if Americans do certain things ( healthy or not ) many other countries will follow suit and that would be a good thing.
I work for the WHO and doing a quick check could not find anything about Americans eating less. This might not mean anything, because I did not make a long in depth search.
However what I found was that Americans are wasting less food and therefore are buying less, which is also a good thing, because so far Americans have consumed ( and thrown away ) 25 % of the world's food production, even though they make only a small number of 25% of the world's population, about 7 billion with 1.75 billion being 25%.
Either way it would be a good thing, because it means that people are more aware and sooner or later that develops into more healthy behavior in regard to food.
I hope that the conclusion of the article is not just based on what Americans buy , but based on true consumption, but would be glad with either trend.
0
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