All pills are not snake oil
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stevencloser wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.UltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.
You can be disturbed if you want to. The number of prescription meds my brother was given for lupus and the damage it caused is even more disturbing. So is the accident my friend got in when she didn't know she was driving while on ambien. And so is the fact that people think if it's prescribed it's automatically ok. Michael Jackson thought the same thing.
What? Did she not know she was driving? Did she not know she was on Ambien?
Nevermind. I'm now convinced you are just completely making stuff up.
She blacked out. Like sleep walking. Good grief. Even though u believe Googles only purpose is to support YOUR argument u could easily find similar stories if u Googled ambien horror stories smh
Are... are you blaming her inability to follow instructions on the medication?
She drove while sleep walking. Ugh go ahead and take ambien if you love it so much. As long as you don't live near me in michigan.
I took ambien about 5 years ago, and IIRC, that was listed as a known potential side effect (along with sleep-eating and other things). You know what I did? Took precautions to make sure I wasn't able to actually get in my car during my sleep.
Pretty much all prescribed medications have known potential side effects. That is why the doctor and patient should thoughtfully consider possible risks vs benefits. That's what I have had to do every time we switch medications. But in the supplement industry, there really isn't any discussion of the two, the peddlers just tell their "clients" to take it and all their problems will be solved.0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
Can I be a junior member? I'm not around much, but I can bring Skittles. Good for repelling tigers and bears (and maybe lions, oh my), and I suspect a potential step down from the PeepCleanse.VintageFeline wrote: »Is the use of "SMH" like some sort of internet tourettes?
Jozz, I don't think you even know what your original point was at this stage. SMH.
I just listed what my points were less than an hour ago. But the responses of course went off track and my disdain for doctors who over prescribe and my experiences came out. Of course people think there's a pill for everything and think if their doc prescribed it then it's the bees knees but hey I'm an attorney so I can make lots of money off of that belief.
Ahhh....you are THAT kind of attorney. Now everything makes sense. SMH.
Yeah, this seems to be promoting Shakespeare's idea. (Henry VI part II: IV,ii,73)0 -
Med mal and products liability require a little more than that, though.nutmegoreo wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
Can I be a junior member? I'm not around much, but I can bring Skittles. Good for repelling tigers and bears (and maybe lions, oh my), and I suspect a potential step down from the PeepCleanse.VintageFeline wrote: »Is the use of "SMH" like some sort of internet tourettes?
Jozz, I don't think you even know what your original point was at this stage. SMH.
I just listed what my points were less than an hour ago. But the responses of course went off track and my disdain for doctors who over prescribe and my experiences came out. Of course people think there's a pill for everything and think if their doc prescribed it then it's the bees knees but hey I'm an attorney so I can make lots of money off of that belief.
I guess your problem here is that you weren't able to strike all the people with brainwaves.
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I've watched a lot of law and order. Um, pills bad? Rapists are worse though (long live svu!)
Smh0 -
I think I know why there's so much smh in this thread. The OP is constantly changing her arguments back and forth...back and forth....smh0
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So who's going to start a CICO cult meeting thread?0
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rjmudlax13 wrote: »I think I know why there's so much smh in this thread. The OP is constantly changing her arguments back and forth...back and forth....smh
I suspect concussion.
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Gosh, I just can't IMAGINE who would have been throwing around phrases like "CICO cult". Really.
Yes, indeed, that group of folks who acknowledge that weight loss is about eating less than you burn is DANGEROUS and CULTLIKE! Be careful! And omg if they discourage you from spending money on your spirulina or whatever, they are just meanies and bullies.
The OP's understanding of prescription medications from Xanax to Methadone is obviously just as comprehensive as her understanding of supplements. At least while she's racking up a post history comprised mostly of complaining about and blaming Everyone Else for Everything, this thread has generated some funny and even informative exchanges between people who don't feel like they need to hide behind PMs
I suppose u think methadone cures heroin addiction? Come hang out in flint, mi at a methadone clinic. Follow a family where the mom is on methadone for about one month and see what your thoughts are. You have no idea what experience and knowledge i have but you're showing your lack of it now.
I suppose I don't think that methadone cures heroin addiction. I suppose I don't need to "hang out" in a methadone clinic or "follow a family where the mom is on methadone for about one month" like some tourist who gets their information about opiate addiction from after-school specials and the news.
Leaping to conclusions usually doesn't get people anywhere other than stuck in a very deep hole of wrong. But based on this thread, it looks like that's the only thing you know how to do when someone disagrees with you. So enjoy!
And now I must excuse myself, as I have a secret meeting of the evil CICO Cult to attend. We're going to be doing awful things like supporting each other, sharing factual information, and celebrating successful weight loss.
Oh, the horror.
I'm bringing the peach cobbler.
Right because why would real life or facts help anything? Sad.0 -
What is peach cobbler for this Brit? Is it like a peach crumble or a peach upside down cake? I realise I could ask Google but more fun to do it in this thread. Either way, whatever it is, I'm probably in. I may want it with proper custard though, which I can bring.0
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VintageFeline wrote: »What is peach cobbler for this Brit? Is it like a peach crumble or a peach upside down cake? I realise I could ask Google but more fun to do it in this thread. Either way, whatever it is, I'm probably in. I may want it with proper custard though, which I can bring.
"Cobbler refers to a variety of dishes, particularly in the United Kingdom and United States, consisting of a fruit or savoury filling poured into a large baking dish and covered with a batter, biscuit, or scone before being baked"
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nutmegoreo wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
Can I be a junior member? I'm not around much, but I can bring Skittles. Good for repelling tigers and bears (and maybe lions, oh my), and I suspect a potential step down from the PeepCleanse.VintageFeline wrote: »Is the use of "SMH" like some sort of internet tourettes?
Jozz, I don't think you even know what your original point was at this stage. SMH.
I just listed what my points were less than an hour ago. But the responses of course went off track and my disdain for doctors who over prescribe and my experiences came out. Of course people think there's a pill for everything and think if their doc prescribed it then it's the bees knees but hey I'm an attorney so I can make lots of money off of that belief.
Ahhh....you are THAT kind of attorney. Now everything makes sense. SMH.
Actually no. I'm a divorce attorney. But my point was i could make money when people decide to sue for all the problems their miracle prescription drugs cause. Because attorneys are the only ones who win when people blindly support all prescription drugs.0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
Can I be a junior member? I'm not around much, but I can bring Skittles. Good for repelling tigers and bears (and maybe lions, oh my), and I suspect a potential step down from the PeepCleanse.VintageFeline wrote: »Is the use of "SMH" like some sort of internet tourettes?
Jozz, I don't think you even know what your original point was at this stage. SMH.
I just listed what my points were less than an hour ago. But the responses of course went off track and my disdain for doctors who over prescribe and my experiences came out. Of course people think there's a pill for everything and think if their doc prescribed it then it's the bees knees but hey I'm an attorney so I can make lots of money off of that belief.
Ahhh....you are THAT kind of attorney. Now everything makes sense. SMH.
Actually no. I'm a divorce attorney. But my point was i could make money when people decide to sue for all the problems their miracle prescription drugs cause. Because attorneys are the only ones who win when people blindly support all prescription drugs.
So you think unregulated supplements are effective but prescription drugs aren't?0 -
So I am once again confused by the OP's trying to change the argument. I know it is commonplace lawyer trickery. She said she is mad that people get all over supplements and say they are snake oil, but then that people are all "A OK GO AHEAD AND TAKE THEM MEDS" when a doctor prescribes them. That is her argument no. Yes? Affirmative?
Ok then. Let's go back to Post #1 in this debacle. I have highlighted a sentence for you to take a gander at. Hmm. So the OP is livid that one would dare jump in and question something a doctor prescribed. However she is also livid that someone would not question something a doctor prescribed because I don't know...Michael Jackson.
My closing argument. OP likes being livid and telling people what they should or should not do.I'm sorry I just get annoyed that I've read so many questions about supplements, and people just cut and paste "only a calorie deficit works". Or instantly post the thing doesn't work and is snake oil and will only lean your pockets. People have posted about medical issues and that's the response without reading, i.e. "my doctor prescribed such and such for my bad liver. will it make me gain weight"? response: "there are no magic pills." smh.
I realize there are no pills that you eat whatever you want and live on the couch and lose 50 pounds a day. But some supplements might effectively curb your appetite, or give you the energy to work out, etc. and even if it is a placebo effect on some of them, so what? If you're eating better and working out more and blame the pill, what's the harm unless it's actually dangerous. I think posting that a supplement is snake oil without knowing anything about it is just as reckless as promoting something you know nothing about. Supplements obviously work for some people. I think it makes more sense to talk about specific research and what the pros and cons and potential dangers are rather than just jumping on people whenever they mention any sort of pill. If you don't know, you don't have to answer.
Um, NO. MY POINT WAS everybody critizes everything that could be a diet pill without even knowing what the original topic was about (and this thread became a prime example). But then i pointed out that i wasn't here to support any specific supplement or pill. I realize with all the deflectors it's hard to keep up.0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
Can I be a junior member? I'm not around much, but I can bring Skittles. Good for repelling tigers and bears (and maybe lions, oh my), and I suspect a potential step down from the PeepCleanse.VintageFeline wrote: »Is the use of "SMH" like some sort of internet tourettes?
Jozz, I don't think you even know what your original point was at this stage. SMH.
I just listed what my points were less than an hour ago. But the responses of course went off track and my disdain for doctors who over prescribe and my experiences came out. Of course people think there's a pill for everything and think if their doc prescribed it then it's the bees knees but hey I'm an attorney so I can make lots of money off of that belief.
Ahhh....you are THAT kind of attorney. Now everything makes sense. SMH.
Actually no. I'm a divorce attorney. But my point was i could make money when people decide to sue for all the problems their miracle prescription drugs cause. Because attorneys are the only ones who win when people blindly support all prescription drugs.
It's written in the side effects. Not even in the USA you could successfully sue for a problem of which you were aware of before popping a bunch of pills.0
This discussion has been closed.
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