All pills are not snake oil
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The mass withdrawals from all of that addictive sugar will be epic.0 -
No. I responded to specific statements and questions as they were asked.PeachyCarol wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
Can I be a junior member? I'm not around much, but I can bring Skittles. Good for repelling tigers and bears (and maybe lions, oh my), and I suspect a potential step down from the PeepCleanse.VintageFeline wrote: »Is the use of "SMH" like some sort of internet tourettes?
Jozz, I don't think you even know what your original point was at this stage. SMH.
I just listed what my points were less than an hour ago. But the responses of course went off track and my disdain for doctors who over prescribe and my experiences came out. Of course people think there's a pill for everything and think if their doc prescribed it then it's the bees knees but hey I'm an attorney so I can make lots of money off of that belief.
Ahhh....you are THAT kind of attorney. Now everything makes sense. SMH.
I think an attorney would put together a more cogent argument. Then again, I once sat on a jury where the main defense was a red herring/smoke screen. They presented a different argument which the prosecution never successfully addressed because they were incompetent. It was enough to plant doubt and did the job.
So good job OP. You realized your supplements argument was a non-starter, then switched over to prescription drugs. You're still not presenting a winning case since you have yet to make any legitimate point the jury can hang its hat on.
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So I am once again confused by the OP's trying to change the argument. I know it is commonplace lawyer trickery. She said she is mad that people get all over supplements and say they are snake oil, but then that people are all "A OK GO AHEAD AND TAKE THEM MEDS" when a doctor prescribes them. That is her argument no. Yes? Affirmative?
Ok then. Let's go back to Post #1 in this debacle. I have highlighted a sentence for you to take a gander at. Hmm. So the OP is livid that one would dare jump in and question something a doctor prescribed. However she is also livid that someone would not question something a doctor prescribed because I don't know...Michael Jackson.
My closing argument. OP likes being livid and telling people what they should or should not do.I'm sorry I just get annoyed that I've read so many questions about supplements, and people just cut and paste "only a calorie deficit works". Or instantly post the thing doesn't work and is snake oil and will only lean your pockets. People have posted about medical issues and that's the response without reading, i.e. "my doctor prescribed such and such for my bad liver. will it make me gain weight"? response: "there are no magic pills." smh.
I realize there are no pills that you eat whatever you want and live on the couch and lose 50 pounds a day. But some supplements might effectively curb your appetite, or give you the energy to work out, etc. and even if it is a placebo effect on some of them, so what? If you're eating better and working out more and blame the pill, what's the harm unless it's actually dangerous. I think posting that a supplement is snake oil without knowing anything about it is just as reckless as promoting something you know nothing about. Supplements obviously work for some people. I think it makes more sense to talk about specific research and what the pros and cons and potential dangers are rather than just jumping on people whenever they mention any sort of pill. If you don't know, you don't have to answer.
Um, NO. MY POINT WAS everybody critizes everything that could be a diet pill without even knowing what the original topic was about (and this thread became a prime example). But then i pointed out that i wasn't here to support any specific supplement or pill. I realize with all the deflectors it's hard to keep up.
Because diet pills are snake oil.0 -
Gosh, I just can't IMAGINE who would have been throwing around phrases like "CICO cult". Really.
Yes, indeed, that group of folks who acknowledge that weight loss is about eating less than you burn is DANGEROUS and CULTLIKE! Be careful! And omg if they discourage you from spending money on your spirulina or whatever, they are just meanies and bullies.
The OP's understanding of prescription medications from Xanax to Methadone is obviously just as comprehensive as her understanding of supplements. At least while she's racking up a post history comprised mostly of complaining about and blaming Everyone Else for Everything, this thread has generated some funny and even informative exchanges between people who don't feel like they need to hide behind PMs
I suppose u think methadone cures heroin addiction? Come hang out in flint, mi at a methadone clinic. Follow a family where the mom is on methadone for about one month and see what your thoughts are. You have no idea what experience and knowledge i have but you're showing your lack of it now.
I suppose I don't think that methadone cures heroin addiction. I suppose I don't need to "hang out" in a methadone clinic or "follow a family where the mom is on methadone for about one month" like some tourist who gets their information about opiate addiction from after-school specials and the news.
Leaping to conclusions usually doesn't get people anywhere other than stuck in a very deep hole of wrong. But based on this thread, it looks like that's the only thing you know how to do when someone disagrees with you. So enjoy!
And now I must excuse myself, as I have a secret meeting of the evil CICO Cult to attend. We're going to be doing awful things like supporting each other, sharing factual information, and celebrating successful weight loss.
Oh, the horror.
I'm bringing the peach cobbler.
Right because why would real life or facts help anything? Sad.
SO the only possible way to get the facts is by following someone?0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »What is peach cobbler for this Brit? Is it like a peach crumble or a peach upside down cake? I realise I could ask Google but more fun to do it in this thread. Either way, whatever it is, I'm probably in. I may want it with proper custard though, which I can bring.
"Cobbler refers to a variety of dishes, particularly in the United Kingdom and United States, consisting of a fruit or savoury filling poured into a large baking dish and covered with a batter, biscuit, or scone before being baked"
Ah ha, upside down cake! (The biscuit and scone batter reference is weirding me out a bit though but let's not open up THAT UK vs US version debate!).
I'll be along in a jiffy with proper custard!
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stevencloser wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
Can I be a junior member? I'm not around much, but I can bring Skittles. Good for repelling tigers and bears (and maybe lions, oh my), and I suspect a potential step down from the PeepCleanse.VintageFeline wrote: »Is the use of "SMH" like some sort of internet tourettes?
Jozz, I don't think you even know what your original point was at this stage. SMH.
I just listed what my points were less than an hour ago. But the responses of course went off track and my disdain for doctors who over prescribe and my experiences came out. Of course people think there's a pill for everything and think if their doc prescribed it then it's the bees knees but hey I'm an attorney so I can make lots of money off of that belief.
Ahhh....you are THAT kind of attorney. Now everything makes sense. SMH.
Actually no. I'm a divorce attorney. But my point was i could make money when people decide to sue for all the problems their miracle prescription drugs cause. Because attorneys are the only ones who win when people blindly support all prescription drugs.
It's written in the side effects. Not even in the USA you could successfully sue for a problem of which you were aware of before popping a bunch of pills.
Hell, it's in the TV ads...0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
Can I be a junior member? I'm not around much, but I can bring Skittles. Good for repelling tigers and bears (and maybe lions, oh my), and I suspect a potential step down from the PeepCleanse.VintageFeline wrote: »Is the use of "SMH" like some sort of internet tourettes?
Jozz, I don't think you even know what your original point was at this stage. SMH.
I just listed what my points were less than an hour ago. But the responses of course went off track and my disdain for doctors who over prescribe and my experiences came out. Of course people think there's a pill for everything and think if their doc prescribed it then it's the bees knees but hey I'm an attorney so I can make lots of money off of that belief.
Ahhh....you are THAT kind of attorney. Now everything makes sense. SMH.
Actually no. I'm a divorce attorney. But my point was i could make money when people decide to sue for all the problems their miracle prescription drugs cause. Because attorneys are the only ones who win when people blindly support all prescription drugs.
As someone who works in both mass-tort pharmaceutical litigation and product liability litigation (medical products) you would not be the direct attorney anyway. These suits must be for something that is NOT listed as a side-effect and manufacturers cannot be held liable for any side-effects a patient may incur if they've been informed and offered consent.
This is something both their doctor decides (because the benefits outweigh the risks AND the patient NEEDS the medication to continue optimal health) and the patient is given all documentation they need to decide their in their own best interest.
Further, if someone experiences a side-effect not reported by many others (through pharmacovigilance) it is unlikely their side-effect was a result of said drug and not pre-existing conditions. If they experience a negative side-effect and many others have reported the same the FDA must do additional testing, adjust warning labels, and these patients receive a settlement through national courts. These are done with attorney liasons as they will file in one specific county and you cannot file individually. Anyone who has taken said drug will receive notification that the drug may cause *new possible side effect* and are instructed to file or seek their doctor for additional instructions.
Many many drugs that are commonly prescribed do not have problems and have been tested for MANY years before they even get approval. And the FDA does the best they can with informing and keeping this information up to date.
On the other hand, supplements which your initial text supported are NOT EVALUATED AT ALL WHATSOEVER and have no responsibility to any consumers. SO......
EDITED TO ADD: Also, with some medication which is known to have particularly harsh side-effects receive a black label warning. Or additional warning labels in BIG BRIGHT LETTERS on the box and often require monthly blood testing/vitals testing to ensure the patients safety.
Must i also point out that if you are in *bad enough health* that you need to be taking one of these medications, it isn't entirely the drugs fault? Like, Hmm, I have diabetes and I'm taking this drug, but UH OH i had a heart attack. MUST BE THE DRUGS FAULT! It doesn't work like that.
And these drugs are not developed, tested, and implemented with the intention of harm financial or otherwise.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
Can I be a junior member? I'm not around much, but I can bring Skittles. Good for repelling tigers and bears (and maybe lions, oh my), and I suspect a potential step down from the PeepCleanse.VintageFeline wrote: »Is the use of "SMH" like some sort of internet tourettes?
Jozz, I don't think you even know what your original point was at this stage. SMH.
I just listed what my points were less than an hour ago. But the responses of course went off track and my disdain for doctors who over prescribe and my experiences came out. Of course people think there's a pill for everything and think if their doc prescribed it then it's the bees knees but hey I'm an attorney so I can make lots of money off of that belief.
Ahhh....you are THAT kind of attorney. Now everything makes sense. SMH.
Actually no. I'm a divorce attorney. But my point was i could make money when people decide to sue for all the problems their miracle prescription drugs cause. Because attorneys are the only ones who win when people blindly support all prescription drugs.
As someone who works in both mass-tort pharmaceutical litigation and product liability litigation (medical products) you would not be the direct attorney anyway. These suits must be for something that is NOT listed as a side-effect and manufacturers cannot be held liable for any side-effects a patient may incur if they've been informed and offered consent.
This is something both their doctor decides (because the benefits outweigh the risks AND the patient NEEDS the medication to continue optimal health) and the patient is given all documentation they need to decide their in their own best interest.
Further, if someone experiences a side-effect not reported by many others (through pharmacovigilance) it is unlikely their side-effect was a result of said drug and not pre-existing conditions. If they experience a negative side-effect and many others have reported the same the FDA must do additional testing, adjust warning labels, and these patients receive a settlement through national courts. These are done with attorney liasons as they will file in one specific county and you cannot file individually. Anyone who has taken said drug will receive notification that the drug may cause *new possible side effect* and are instructed to file or seek their doctor for additional instructions.
Many many drugs that are commonly prescribed do not have problems and have been tested for MANY years before they even get approval. And the FDA does the best they can with informing and keeping this information up to date.
On the other hand, supplements which your initial text supported are NOT EVALUATED AT ALL WHATSOEVER and have no responsibility to any consumers. SO......
Thank you, that is excellent information.0 -
Um, I think the OP just got out lawyered. Pretty sure that's why lawyers stick to their own fields of expertise.0
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The mass withdrawals from all of that addictive sugar will be epic.
We'll have to cleanse. <nods>0 -
No. I responded to specific statements and questions as they were asked.PeachyCarol wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
Can I be a junior member? I'm not around much, but I can bring Skittles. Good for repelling tigers and bears (and maybe lions, oh my), and I suspect a potential step down from the PeepCleanse.VintageFeline wrote: »Is the use of "SMH" like some sort of internet tourettes?
Jozz, I don't think you even know what your original point was at this stage. SMH.
I just listed what my points were less than an hour ago. But the responses of course went off track and my disdain for doctors who over prescribe and my experiences came out. Of course people think there's a pill for everything and think if their doc prescribed it then it's the bees knees but hey I'm an attorney so I can make lots of money off of that belief.
Ahhh....you are THAT kind of attorney. Now everything makes sense. SMH.
I think an attorney would put together a more cogent argument. Then again, I once sat on a jury where the main defense was a red herring/smoke screen. They presented a different argument which the prosecution never successfully addressed because they were incompetent. It was enough to plant doubt and did the job.
So good job OP. You realized your supplements argument was a non-starter, then switched over to prescription drugs. You're still not presenting a winning case since you have yet to make any legitimate point the jury can hang its hat on.
Not really. tick tock, tick tock.0 -
Can I come to the Cult gathering? I'll bring thin mint ice cream and a Reese's Cheesecake.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »
The mass withdrawals from all of that addictive sugar will be epic.
We'll have to cleanse. <nods>
For sure. @tincanonastring we'll need DAT peep cleanse after our epic cico cult meeting tonight.
We're going to sacrifice a troll tree frog and eat all the evil sugar and carbs ( in moderation of coarse !)0 -
UltimateRBF wrote: »COBBLER! That's what I'm going to make. I have a bunch of peaches that need to get used. Brilliant!
Sounds like a plan ! See ya at 12 eastern standard time ! #cicocultrules #sacrificetrollfrogs0
This discussion has been closed.
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