Muscle gaining misconceptions
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I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.0
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Great thread !!0
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Think you are underestimating quite how low many people's start point is and in my opinion this statement is over-stated - "It's improbable to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. It CAN happen in a few cases."
Calorie deficit is very vague too - 50, 100, 500, 1000 a day?
"Few cases" applies to a huge slice of the population who are undertrained or sedentary and also carrying around a massive energy store.
Strength/weight training is such a minority pursuit that there are loads of people with the potential to make muscle gains as long as they don't go for an excessive calorie deficit and train appropriately. Trying to project what bodybuilders have to do to make incremental gains when they are already fully trained and lean to the general under-trained and fat population is misleading.
That people mistake strength gains and improvements in definition for actual muscle growth is well known but the rest is a bit exagerated in my view.
It's possible, but in the same vein, I think you're overestimating what the majority of sedentary, undertrained newbs are performing for their strength and muscle building programs. To say They are typically following a suboptimal regimen is being generous. Even those that luck into decent programming are so out of shape that they don't yet have the stamina to put forth maximum effort.
The newbs that come on this board and claim to have gotten so bulky overwhelmingly reveal a training structure that's unlikely to produce any gains at all. Combined with their deficit eating, the issue most likely resides in their own minds.0 -
But it doesn't just apply to bodybuilders. In general, this applies to regular population. As I mentioned IF there is room for someone to lose excessive fat, then there's a possibility to still gain some muscle even while in a calorie deficit, however someone with not much to lose at all, at deficit and trying to add say 10lbs of muscle ISN'T going to do it on a calorie deficit. Enlighten me if you can link me to something that supports that.Think you are underestimating quite how low many people's start point is and in my opinion this statement is over-stated - "It's improbable to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. It CAN happen in a few cases."
Calorie deficit is very vague too - 50, 100, 500, 1000 a day?
"Few cases" applies to a huge slice of the population who are undertrained or sedentary and also carrying around a massive energy store.
Strength/weight training is such a minority pursuit that there are loads of people with the potential to make muscle gains as long as they don't go for an excessive calorie deficit and train appropriately. Trying to project what bodybuilders have to do to make incremental gains when they are already fully trained and lean to the general under-trained and fat population is misleading.
That people mistake strength gains and improvements in definition for actual muscle growth is well known but the rest is a bit exagerated in my view.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I disagree but that's OK. Your background and experience is different to mine. My muscle gain or loss has virtually all been to do with training and very little to do with calorie surplus or deficit. I've lost muscle in a surplus and gained it in a deficit. Even lost and gained muscle at the same time.
Again though you are using calorie deficit as a catch-all term. We both know (I hope) there is a world of difference between small deficits and large deficits over long term. What we probably agree on is the need for good training, appropriate deficit and good nutrition while cutting. I'm just more optimistic about the possible results than you.
The alternative would be for you to provide a link to something that supports your stance - a long term study done on regular everyday people (sedentary non gym goers perhaps?) who are overweight, lose weight slowly, with a good training program and adequate macros and shows they cannot gain significant amounts of muscle. I've never seen one.
Almost all of the studies I've seen have been on the general population such as untrained college students. It's fairly rare for decent studies to be done with seasoned bodybuilders. I have issues with the methods used in both types of studies, but most of the ones supporting Niner's position will have been performed on the sedentary, untrained subjects that you're referring to.0 -
You pretty much said it. I'll just add that people who rely on diet and just cardio only to lose weight may lose a good amount of muscle along with the fat.Great post.
Perhaps you can consider adding a phrase or two on how lifting during weightloss can help preserve existing muscle. Or perhaps the oposit, about how that muscle (in obese people) gets lost without strength training. Just for completion sake.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Recomp is continuing with a progressive weight lifting regimen at a maintenance if there's still fat to lose, or a slight surplus so one doesn't bulk up too much. Gaining muscle on this program can happen, but it's a long process. It may take months just to put on a pound or so of muscle.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.
And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
Catabolism and anabolism are both constantly going on in the body. Pathways don't have on and off switches, they're all just rates that vary.
If were looking at it physiologically, you either are gaining or losing muscle. Most of the time it's just small changes not noticeable on a daily basis if one is in maintenance.
But it doesn't just apply to bodybuilders. In general, this applies to regular population. As I mentioned IF there is room for someone to lose excessive fat, then there's a possibility to still gain some muscle even while in a calorie deficit, however someone with not much to lose at all, at deficit and trying to add say 10lbs of muscle ISN'T going to do it on a calorie deficit. Enlighten me if you can link me to something that supports that.Think you are underestimating quite how low many people's start point is and in my opinion this statement is over-stated - "It's improbable to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. It CAN happen in a few cases."
Calorie deficit is very vague too - 50, 100, 500, 1000 a day?
"Few cases" applies to a huge slice of the population who are undertrained or sedentary and also carrying around a massive energy store.
Strength/weight training is such a minority pursuit that there are loads of people with the potential to make muscle gains as long as they don't go for an excessive calorie deficit and train appropriately. Trying to project what bodybuilders have to do to make incremental gains when they are already fully trained and lean to the general under-trained and fat population is misleading.
That people mistake strength gains and improvements in definition for actual muscle growth is well known but the rest is a bit exagerated in my view.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I disagree but that's OK. Your background and experience is different to mine. My muscle gain or loss has virtually all been to do with training and very little to do with calorie surplus or deficit. I've lost muscle in a surplus and gained it in a deficit. Even lost and gained muscle at the same time.
Again though you are using calorie deficit as a catch-all term. We both know (I hope) there is a world of difference between small deficits and large deficits over long term. What we probably agree on is the need for good training, appropriate deficit and good nutrition while cutting. I'm just more optimistic about the possible results than you.
The alternative would be for you to provide a link to something that supports your stance - a long term study done on regular everyday people (sedentary non gym goers perhaps?) who are overweight, lose weight slowly, with a good training program and adequate macros and shows they cannot gain significant amounts of muscle. I've never seen one.
I'll look for some study or research for what you mentioned, but when losing tissue (catabolic) I do know that mTOR and other muscle building pathways are disrupted versus when one is being anabolic.
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Touche'. You elaboration on it was more concise.
Catabolism and anabolism are both constantly going on in the body. Pathways don't have on and off switches, they're all just rates that vary.
If were looking at it physiologically, you either are gaining or losing muscle. Most of the time it's just small changes not noticeable on a daily basis if one is in maintenance.
But it doesn't just apply to bodybuilders. In general, this applies to regular population. As I mentioned IF there is room for someone to lose excessive fat, then there's a possibility to still gain some muscle even while in a calorie deficit, however someone with not much to lose at all, at deficit and trying to add say 10lbs of muscle ISN'T going to do it on a calorie deficit. Enlighten me if you can link me to something that supports that.Think you are underestimating quite how low many people's start point is and in my opinion this statement is over-stated - "It's improbable to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. It CAN happen in a few cases."
Calorie deficit is very vague too - 50, 100, 500, 1000 a day?
"Few cases" applies to a huge slice of the population who are undertrained or sedentary and also carrying around a massive energy store.
Strength/weight training is such a minority pursuit that there are loads of people with the potential to make muscle gains as long as they don't go for an excessive calorie deficit and train appropriately. Trying to project what bodybuilders have to do to make incremental gains when they are already fully trained and lean to the general under-trained and fat population is misleading.
That people mistake strength gains and improvements in definition for actual muscle growth is well known but the rest is a bit exagerated in my view.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I disagree but that's OK. Your background and experience is different to mine. My muscle gain or loss has virtually all been to do with training and very little to do with calorie surplus or deficit. I've lost muscle in a surplus and gained it in a deficit. Even lost and gained muscle at the same time.
Again though you are using calorie deficit as a catch-all term. We both know (I hope) there is a world of difference between small deficits and large deficits over long term. What we probably agree on is the need for good training, appropriate deficit and good nutrition while cutting. I'm just more optimistic about the possible results than you.
The alternative would be for you to provide a link to something that supports your stance - a long term study done on regular everyday people (sedentary non gym goers perhaps?) who are overweight, lose weight slowly, with a good training program and adequate macros and shows they cannot gain significant amounts of muscle. I've never seen one.
I'll look for some study or research for what you mentioned, but when losing tissue (catabolic) I do know that mTOR and other muscle building pathways are disrupted versus when one is being anabolic.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
Touche'. You elaboration on it was more concise.
Catabolism and anabolism are both constantly going on in the body. Pathways don't have on and off switches, they're all just rates that vary.
If were looking at it physiologically, you either are gaining or losing muscle. Most of the time it's just small changes not noticeable on a daily basis if one is in maintenance.
But it doesn't just apply to bodybuilders. In general, this applies to regular population. As I mentioned IF there is room for someone to lose excessive fat, then there's a possibility to still gain some muscle even while in a calorie deficit, however someone with not much to lose at all, at deficit and trying to add say 10lbs of muscle ISN'T going to do it on a calorie deficit. Enlighten me if you can link me to something that supports that.Think you are underestimating quite how low many people's start point is and in my opinion this statement is over-stated - "It's improbable to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. It CAN happen in a few cases."
Calorie deficit is very vague too - 50, 100, 500, 1000 a day?
"Few cases" applies to a huge slice of the population who are undertrained or sedentary and also carrying around a massive energy store.
Strength/weight training is such a minority pursuit that there are loads of people with the potential to make muscle gains as long as they don't go for an excessive calorie deficit and train appropriately. Trying to project what bodybuilders have to do to make incremental gains when they are already fully trained and lean to the general under-trained and fat population is misleading.
That people mistake strength gains and improvements in definition for actual muscle growth is well known but the rest is a bit exagerated in my view.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I disagree but that's OK. Your background and experience is different to mine. My muscle gain or loss has virtually all been to do with training and very little to do with calorie surplus or deficit. I've lost muscle in a surplus and gained it in a deficit. Even lost and gained muscle at the same time.
Again though you are using calorie deficit as a catch-all term. We both know (I hope) there is a world of difference between small deficits and large deficits over long term. What we probably agree on is the need for good training, appropriate deficit and good nutrition while cutting. I'm just more optimistic about the possible results than you.
The alternative would be for you to provide a link to something that supports your stance - a long term study done on regular everyday people (sedentary non gym goers perhaps?) who are overweight, lose weight slowly, with a good training program and adequate macros and shows they cannot gain significant amounts of muscle. I've never seen one.
I'll look for some study or research for what you mentioned, but when losing tissue (catabolic) I do know that mTOR and other muscle building pathways are disrupted versus when one is being anabolic.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My use of "at the same time" was as vague as your use of "calorie deficit".
Had you asked I would have explained it was two distinct three month periods. Muscle atrophy or hypertrophy isn't just a function of calorie balance as I'm sure you know.
First 3 months.
Major knee injury with leg either immobilised or flapping uselessly in the breeze. 5" loss of quad circumference but at same time very significant tricep and trap growth from the novel training stimulus of going everywhere on crutches. (BTW - novel training stimulus is missing from your list of "few cases".) Major calorie surplus!
Second 3 months.
Surgery, learning to walk again and mostly stair climbing restored 3" to quad size very rapidly. Simultaneously lost most of my newly gained coke bottle shoulders. Small calorie deficit.
Taking away the injury related atrophy/hypertrophy and just using a more relevant example:
In my fifties when cutting everything indicated that I lose muscle mass at 1lb/week deficit but can gain small amounts of muscle at 1lb/month - somewhere in that range was my personal tipping point and it definitely wasn't TDEE. In my twenties those numbers would have been very different as I was genetically gifted compared to my peer group - that's another of the "few cases" missing.
My major objection to your OP is turning generalisations into absolutes. That leads to the uneducated parroting trite phrases such as "you can't gain muscle in a deficit".
I'm sure no-one would really believe that someone with a TDEE of 3000 per day can:
Gain muscle at 3001
Recomp at 3000 (unless very lean)
Impossible to gain muscle at 2999
That's obviously taking it to ludicrous extremes but that's what making absolute statements does.
Regards.
Certified.
Black belt in Origami.
Been keeping fit for 40 years and have studied Shibari enthusiastically.
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... My major objection to your OP is turning generalisations into absolutes. That leads to the uneducated parroting trite phrases such as "you can't gain muscle in a deficit".
I'm sure no-one would really believe that someone with a TDEE of 3000 per day can:
Gain muscle at 3001
Recomp at 3000 (unless very lean)
Impossible to gain muscle at 2999
That's obviously taking it to ludicrous extremes but that's what making absolute statements does.
Regards.
Certified.
Black belt in Origami.
Been keeping fit for 40 years and have studied Shibari enthusiastically.
Thank you.0 -
Recomp is continuing with a progressive weight lifting regimen at a maintenance if there's still fat to lose, or a slight surplus so one doesn't bulk up too much. Gaining muscle on this program can happen, but it's a long process. It may take months just to put on a pound or so of muscle.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.
And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you so much for answering my question. So even with a substantial amount of weight to lose (at least 50+ lbs) this is the way to go? Eat at maintainence +15% on days lifting and maintainence -10% on cardio or rest days? Instead of the usual mfp's at 1 lb a week or 2 lbs a week etc.
It feels scary to do Lol but I'm willing to try it.
I lift 3 days a week for an hour with a personal trainer and am 5'10". 61 yrs old female.
When you say it takes a long time you are talking about gaining muscle. Will this also slow down the losing weight part of it?
Again, thank you so much and thanks in advance.
Regards
Alfie.
Edit. I think I got that formula on another thread but does that seem correct?0 -
alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »
Recomp is continuing with a progressive weight lifting regimen at a maintenance if there's still fat to lose, or a slight surplus so one doesn't bulk up too much. Gaining muscle on this program can happen, but it's a long process. It may take months just to put on a pound or so of muscle.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.
And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you so much for answering my question. So even with a substantial amount of weight to lose (at least 50+ lbs) this is the way to go? Eat at maintainence +15% on days lifting and maintainence -10% on cardio or rest days? Instead of the usual mfp's at 1 lb a week or 2 lbs a week etc.
It feels scary to do Lol but I'm willing to try it.
I lift 3 days a week for an hour with a personal trainer and am 5'10". 61 yrs old female.
When you say it takes a long time you are talking about gaining muscle. Will this also slow down the losing weight part of it?
Again, thank you so much and thanks in advance.
Regards
Alfie.
Edit. I think I got that formula on another thread but does that seem correct?
If you still have quite some weight to lose you shouldn't do recomp.
Recomp is adding muscle and losing fat while maintaining the same bodyweight. So basically for people who are at their goal weight but unhappy about their bodyfat percentage.
So for now continue eating at a defecit and continue lifting. Through lifting you maintain muscle you would otherwise lose as a part of normal weightloss. So now most of your weightloss is fat loss, which will make your already existing muscles more visible. You will however not add more muscle mass.
That does not mean that your muscles can't already become visible through your fat loss. Some people are fortunate enough to come out of their weightloss having that slim and fit look showing some muscle, without additional muscle mass. Key thing is to continue lifting weights.
If you would like to add more muscle mass, best thing to do is reach your goal weight and decide to either recomp or bulk when you get there.2 -
Lol, I'm sure that people weren't taking my statements as measure down to literally the exact calories possible. The the general statement is that building muscle on a deficit isn't a probability with the exceptions of the ones I stated earlier. On absolutes, okay I'll agree. That 1 calorie DOES make a difference in absolutes.
Touche'. You elaboration on it was more concise.
Catabolism and anabolism are both constantly going on in the body. Pathways don't have on and off switches, they're all just rates that vary.
If were looking at it physiologically, you either are gaining or losing muscle. Most of the time it's just small changes not noticeable on a daily basis if one is in maintenance.
But it doesn't just apply to bodybuilders. In general, this applies to regular population. As I mentioned IF there is room for someone to lose excessive fat, then there's a possibility to still gain some muscle even while in a calorie deficit, however someone with not much to lose at all, at deficit and trying to add say 10lbs of muscle ISN'T going to do it on a calorie deficit. Enlighten me if you can link me to something that supports that.Think you are underestimating quite how low many people's start point is and in my opinion this statement is over-stated - "It's improbable to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. It CAN happen in a few cases."
Calorie deficit is very vague too - 50, 100, 500, 1000 a day?
"Few cases" applies to a huge slice of the population who are undertrained or sedentary and also carrying around a massive energy store.
Strength/weight training is such a minority pursuit that there are loads of people with the potential to make muscle gains as long as they don't go for an excessive calorie deficit and train appropriately. Trying to project what bodybuilders have to do to make incremental gains when they are already fully trained and lean to the general under-trained and fat population is misleading.
That people mistake strength gains and improvements in definition for actual muscle growth is well known but the rest is a bit exagerated in my view.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I disagree but that's OK. Your background and experience is different to mine. My muscle gain or loss has virtually all been to do with training and very little to do with calorie surplus or deficit. I've lost muscle in a surplus and gained it in a deficit. Even lost and gained muscle at the same time.
Again though you are using calorie deficit as a catch-all term. We both know (I hope) there is a world of difference between small deficits and large deficits over long term. What we probably agree on is the need for good training, appropriate deficit and good nutrition while cutting. I'm just more optimistic about the possible results than you.
The alternative would be for you to provide a link to something that supports your stance - a long term study done on regular everyday people (sedentary non gym goers perhaps?) who are overweight, lose weight slowly, with a good training program and adequate macros and shows they cannot gain significant amounts of muscle. I've never seen one.
I'll look for some study or research for what you mentioned, but when losing tissue (catabolic) I do know that mTOR and other muscle building pathways are disrupted versus when one is being anabolic.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My use of "at the same time" was as vague as your use of "calorie deficit".
Had you asked I would have explained it was two distinct three month periods. Muscle atrophy or hypertrophy isn't just a function of calorie balance as I'm sure you know.
First 3 months.
Major knee injury with leg either immobilised or flapping uselessly in the breeze. 5" loss of quad circumference but at same time very significant tricep and trap growth from the novel training stimulus of going everywhere on crutches. (BTW - novel training stimulus is missing from your list of "few cases".) Major calorie surplus!
Second 3 months.
Surgery, learning to walk again and mostly stair climbing restored 3" to quad size very rapidly. Simultaneously lost most of my newly gained coke bottle shoulders. Small calorie deficit.
Taking away the injury related atrophy/hypertrophy and just using a more relevant example:
In my fifties when cutting everything indicated that I lose muscle mass at 1lb/week deficit but can gain small amounts of muscle at 1lb/month - somewhere in that range was my personal tipping point and it definitely wasn't TDEE. In my twenties those numbers would have been very different as I was genetically gifted compared to my peer group - that's another of the "few cases" missing.
My major objection to your OP is turning generalisations into absolutes. That leads to the uneducated parroting trite phrases such as "you can't gain muscle in a deficit".
I'm sure no-one would really believe that someone with a TDEE of 3000 per day can:
Gain muscle at 3001
Recomp at 3000 (unless very lean)
Impossible to gain muscle at 2999
That's obviously taking it to ludicrous extremes but that's what making absolute statements does.
Regards.
Certified.
Black belt in Origami.
Been keeping fit for 40 years and have studied Shibari enthusiastically.
Your situation you described happened with atrophy/hypertrophy due to intentional non use. Let's stick to the OP and keep discussing people who are intentionally trying to put on muscle while relatively healthy enough to do so.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I cordially invite you to participate in discussion.gillian_nalletamby wrote: »... My major objection to your OP is turning generalisations into absolutes. That leads to the uneducated parroting trite phrases such as "you can't gain muscle in a deficit".
I'm sure no-one would really believe that someone with a TDEE of 3000 per day can:
Gain muscle at 3001
Recomp at 3000 (unless very lean)
Impossible to gain muscle at 2999
That's obviously taking it to ludicrous extremes but that's what making absolute statements does.
Regards.
Certified.
Black belt in Origami.
Been keeping fit for 40 years and have studied Shibari enthusiastically.
Thank you.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
I wouldn't focus on recomp if you have that much weight to still lose. Just stay at deficit. Also understand that age and gender have a direct effect on the effectiveness of muscle gaining due to metabolic rate and hormone activity (unless of course there's some enhancement going on).alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »
Recomp is continuing with a progressive weight lifting regimen at a maintenance if there's still fat to lose, or a slight surplus so one doesn't bulk up too much. Gaining muscle on this program can happen, but it's a long process. It may take months just to put on a pound or so of muscle.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.
And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you so much for answering my question. So even with a substantial amount of weight to lose (at least 50+ lbs) this is the way to go? Eat at maintainence +15% on days lifting and maintainence -10% on cardio or rest days? Instead of the usual mfp's at 1 lb a week or 2 lbs a week etc.
It feels scary to do Lol but I'm willing to try it.
I lift 3 days a week for an hour with a personal trainer and am 5'10". 61 yrs old female.
When you say it takes a long time you are talking about gaining muscle. Will this also slow down the losing weight part of it?
Again, thank you so much and thanks in advance.
Regards
Alfie.
Edit. I think I got that formula on another thread but does that seem correct?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
Great post. Thank you!!0
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alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »
Recomp is continuing with a progressive weight lifting regimen at a maintenance if there's still fat to lose, or a slight surplus so one doesn't bulk up too much. Gaining muscle on this program can happen, but it's a long process. It may take months just to put on a pound or so of muscle.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.
And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you so much for answering my question. So even with a substantial amount of weight to lose (at least 50+ lbs) this is the way to go? Eat at maintainence +15% on days lifting and maintainence -10% on cardio or rest days? Instead of the usual mfp's at 1 lb a week or 2 lbs a week etc.
It feels scary to do Lol but I'm willing to try it.
I lift 3 days a week for an hour with a personal trainer and am 5'10". 61 yrs old female.
When you say it takes a long time you are talking about gaining muscle. Will this also slow down the losing weight part of it?
Again, thank you so much and thanks in advance.
Regards
Alfie.
Edit. I think I got that formula on another thread but does that seem correct?
If you still have quite some weight to lose you shouldn't do recomp.
Recomp is adding muscle and losing fat while maintaining the same bodyweight. So basically for people who are at their goal weight but unhappy about their bodyfat percentage.
So for now continue eating at a defecit and continue lifting. Through lifting you maintain muscle you would otherwise lose as a part of normal weightloss. So now most of your weightloss is fat loss, which will make your already existing muscles more visible. You will however not add more muscle mass.
That does not mean that your muscles can't already become visible through your fat loss. Some people are fortunate enough to come out of their weightloss having that slim and fit look showing some muscle, without additional muscle mass. Key thing is to continue lifting weights.
If you would like to add more muscle mass, best thing to do is reach your goal weight and decide to either recomp or bulk when you get there.
Thank you so much AslSmile. I totally (finally) understand. Makes lots of sense.
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I wouldn't focus on recomp if you have that much weight to still lose. Just stay at deficit. Also understand that age and gender have a direct effect on the effectiveness of muscle gaining due to metabolic rate and hormone activity (unless of course there's some enhancement going on).alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »
Recomp is continuing with a progressive weight lifting regimen at a maintenance if there's still fat to lose, or a slight surplus so one doesn't bulk up too much. Gaining muscle on this program can happen, but it's a long process. It may take months just to put on a pound or so of muscle.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.
And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you so much for answering my question. So even with a substantial amount of weight to lose (at least 50+ lbs) this is the way to go? Eat at maintainence +15% on days lifting and maintainence -10% on cardio or rest days? Instead of the usual mfp's at 1 lb a week or 2 lbs a week etc.
It feels scary to do Lol but I'm willing to try it.
I lift 3 days a week for an hour with a personal trainer and am 5'10". 61 yrs old female.
When you say it takes a long time you are talking about gaining muscle. Will this also slow down the losing weight part of it?
Again, thank you so much and thanks in advance.
Regards
Alfie.
Edit. I think I got that formula on another thread but does that seem correct?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Awesome. Thank you ninerbuff I appreciate all of your help.
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My pleasure. Just kill it in the gym each session.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »
I wouldn't focus on recomp if you have that much weight to still lose. Just stay at deficit. Also understand that age and gender have a direct effect on the effectiveness of muscle gaining due to metabolic rate and hormone activity (unless of course there's some enhancement going on).alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »
Recomp is continuing with a progressive weight lifting regimen at a maintenance if there's still fat to lose, or a slight surplus so one doesn't bulk up too much. Gaining muscle on this program can happen, but it's a long process. It may take months just to put on a pound or so of muscle.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.
And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you so much for answering my question. So even with a substantial amount of weight to lose (at least 50+ lbs) this is the way to go? Eat at maintainence +15% on days lifting and maintainence -10% on cardio or rest days? Instead of the usual mfp's at 1 lb a week or 2 lbs a week etc.
It feels scary to do Lol but I'm willing to try it.
I lift 3 days a week for an hour with a personal trainer and am 5'10". 61 yrs old female.
When you say it takes a long time you are talking about gaining muscle. Will this also slow down the losing weight part of it?
Again, thank you so much and thanks in advance.
Regards
Alfie.
Edit. I think I got that formula on another thread but does that seem correct?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Awesome. Thank you ninerbuff I appreciate all of your help.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »
Recomp is continuing with a progressive weight lifting regimen at a maintenance if there's still fat to lose, or a slight surplus so one doesn't bulk up too much. Gaining muscle on this program can happen, but it's a long process. It may take months just to put on a pound or so of muscle.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.
And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you so much for answering my question. So even with a substantial amount of weight to lose (at least 50+ lbs) this is the way to go? Eat at maintainence +15% on days lifting and maintainence -10% on cardio or rest days? Instead of the usual mfp's at 1 lb a week or 2 lbs a week etc.
It feels scary to do Lol but I'm willing to try it.
I lift 3 days a week for an hour with a personal trainer and am 5'10". 61 yrs old female.
When you say it takes a long time you are talking about gaining muscle. Will this also slow down the losing weight part of it?
Again, thank you so much and thanks in advance.
Regards
Alfie.
Edit. I think I got that formula on another thread but does that seem correct?
If you still have quite some weight to lose you shouldn't do recomp.
Recomp is adding muscle and losing fat while maintaining the same bodyweight. So basically for people who are at their goal weight but unhappy about their bodyfat percentage.
So for now continue eating at a defecit and continue lifting. Through lifting you maintain muscle you would otherwise lose as a part of normal weightloss. So now most of your weightloss is fat loss, which will make your already existing muscles more visible. You will however not add more muscle mass.
That does not mean that your muscles can't already become visible through your fat loss. Some people are fortunate enough to come out of their weightloss having that slim and fit look showing some muscle, without additional muscle mass. Key thing is to continue lifting weights.
If you would like to add more muscle mass, best thing to do is reach your goal weight and decide to either recomp or bulk when you get there.
Thank you so much AslSmile. I totally (finally) understand. Makes lots of sense.
Glad I could help0
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