No one eats carbs alone
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I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
Congrats on the superior self control.
Please understand that simple decision-making is one small element in people's nutritional battle for better weight and health.
You telling someone with a low blood sugar or some other issues they need to explore that it is all 'self control' undermines development of a multitude of strategies making weight loss possible without challenging levels of self control.
What you're projecting is not at all what is being said. Food does not reach out to us, we reach out to the food, therefore we need to change our relationship with food to have some self control. For me, establishing a good relationship with food took a lot of self-educating, exploration of my own issues, and simply learning how to say no to something until I could learn how to eat in moderation. I also still have foods that I feel triggered by.
For example, M & M's at the office are one thing that I have trouble moderating, so I don't eat them there, because I have a tendency to binge when I'm under stress. However, I can have a bag of M & M's in my cabinet at home and portion them out just fine if I want some. In this respect, I know I need to work on my work stress issues rather than blaming the food.
I think @umayster's point was that for people with IR, it isn't about a relationship with food. There is a biological drive, based on hormone and blood glucose which will drive the cravings.
For many people with IR, those M&M's would lead to binges at work and at home, and not because of work stress or work fatigue.... I'm generalizing - this won't be true for all with IR.
That might be her point, but she is wrong. IR, PCOS, T2Dm, etc. do not set up cravings. Even if they did, each person has a choice to give in or not. People need to take responsibility for their choices instead of blaming some unproven biological thing.
Are you referring to hunger? We are talking about hunger.
Even you're hungry, you have the choice to say no to it. Sometimes saying no is appropriate (you just ate your dinner) and sometimes saying yes is appropriate (when you haven't eaten in awhile). If you have excessive hunger, you need to speak with your doctor. Still, you have to take responsibility for your choices.
You also have a choice as to what you eat to assuage that hunger. You can choose things that fill you up with lower calories (big bowl of veggies for example) or you can choose foods that are higher calories and you need more to fill you up. It is still a choice even if the hunger is real.
Yep. 100% agreement. 0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »CICO may not address personal variable the way some may like yet it is a starting point that is not hard to understand and to roughly compute.
While going very low carb dropped my pain/inflammation levels like a rock I have no way to know it was due to cutting out most all sugar and all grains or going very high fat. It could even be a combo the two as far as I know.
What I do know there is no end to the amount of carbs I can eat because one calls for two and two calls for four cascading effect. This could be like drinking milk and eating cookies. However if I try to drink 36% butter fat heavy whipping cream I have a fast croaking response as in I can not force myself to drink more.
For example I can use the same amount of half and half coffee creamer as I use heavy whipping cream and drink four cups of coffee. If using heavy whipping cream I will croak if I try to go past the second cup.
My body will permit me to overeat carbs for some reason but will not let me do so on high fat low carb foods for some reason. This effect is in fact in my case a natural calorie intake restriction number one. Number two I stay full longer when eating high fat foods again making LCHF calorie intake restriction.
Maybe my calories from carbs detector is defective.
CICO addresses weight management. The foods you eat or diet you follow address the rest. For you, going keto help alleviate pain. For others carbs help endurance training or can help promote muscle growth.
What i dont get is why people assume CICO is an eating style, which it is not.0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »
Here's what I don't get:
If I knew that I always felt very hungry after eating a certain food or type of food, and that it was difficult for me to resist overeating after consuming it, how does abstinence translate to an abdication of personal responsibility? It would be one thing if I repeatedly binged and claimed there was nothing I could do to stop it, but if I CAN stop it by avoiding that food, isn't it kind of irrational to reject that strategy and instead try to white knuckle through a crisis brought on by my own eating choices?
That was one of my points. You learn management strategies to deal with your personal trigger foods. I don't keep nuts or peanut butter in the house. I keep them in my car in the parking structure 2 floors below me. Many on here are trying to say that carbs cause people to overeat and therefore should be avoided. That is not true. Carbs do not cause people to binge, not saying no or not finding an alternative is what causes people to binge.
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MakePeasNotWar wrote: »
I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
Congrats on the superior self control.
Please understand that simple decision-making is one small element in people's nutritional battle for better weight and health.
You telling someone with a low blood sugar or some other issues they need to explore that it is all 'self control' undermines development of a multitude of strategies making weight loss possible without challenging levels of self control.
What you're projecting is not at all what is being said. Food does not reach out to us, we reach out to the food, therefore we need to change our relationship with food to have some self control. For me, establishing a good relationship with food took a lot of self-educating, exploration of my own issues, and simply learning how to say no to something until I could learn how to eat in moderation. I also still have foods that I feel triggered by.
For example, M & M's at the office are one thing that I have trouble moderating, so I don't eat them there, because I have a tendency to binge when I'm under stress. However, I can have a bag of M & M's in my cabinet at home and portion them out just fine if I want some. In this respect, I know I need to work on my work stress issues rather than blaming the food.
I think @umayster's point was that for people with IR, it isn't about a relationship with food. There is a biological drive, based on hormone and blood glucose which will drive the cravings.
For many people with IR, those M&M's would lead to binges at work and at home, and not because of work stress or work fatigue.... I'm generalizing - this won't be true for all with IR.
That might be her point, but she is wrong. IR, PCOS, T2Dm, etc. do not set up cravings. Even if they did, each person has a choice to give in or not. People need to take responsibility for their choices instead of blaming some unproven biological thing.
Here's what I don't get:
If I knew that I always felt very hungry after eating a certain food or type of food, and that it was difficult for me to resist overeating after consuming it, how does abstinence translate to an abdication of personal responsibility? It would be one thing if I repeatedly binged and claimed there was nothing I could do to stop it, but if I CAN stop it by avoiding that food, isn't it kind of irrational to reject that strategy and instead try to white knuckle through a crisis brought on by my own eating choices?
I don't think abstinence does. It's just another way of dealing with it. I can totally get someone saying that they ENJOY not eating a food more than eating it in smaller amounts. (To use my usual example, I am not interested in eating Indian with no naan and maybe a reasonable serving of chicken tandoori. I want to be able to eat as much naan as I like with a couple of different (albeit shared and in reasonable portions) curries, and not to worry about the calories in the curries. So I don't eat Indian weekly like I used to. I eat it once a month or two, and usually during a weekend when I have an extra long workout planned.) Similarly, I can get someone saying a food makes them "crave" (even if I am not convinced that's actually caused by physical qualities of the food) and that that's unpleasant, so they'd rather not deal with it.
What I am reading here that I think people are objecting to, though, is that some fat (or overweight) people were overweight because they failed to exercise self control or made bad decisions. Others, though--according to them--did not make poor decisions and do not bear any responsibility at all. Instead, they were victims of the medical establishment not telling us that carbs are bad, bad, very bad, and simply COULD NOT HELP overeating. It was impossible for them to not overeat until they figured out the effect of carbs and cut them out. It wasn't them, it was the carbs.0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »
I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
Congrats on the superior self control.
Please understand that simple decision-making is one small element in people's nutritional battle for better weight and health.
You telling someone with a low blood sugar or some other issues they need to explore that it is all 'self control' undermines development of a multitude of strategies making weight loss possible without challenging levels of self control.
What you're projecting is not at all what is being said. Food does not reach out to us, we reach out to the food, therefore we need to change our relationship with food to have some self control. For me, establishing a good relationship with food took a lot of self-educating, exploration of my own issues, and simply learning how to say no to something until I could learn how to eat in moderation. I also still have foods that I feel triggered by.
For example, M & M's at the office are one thing that I have trouble moderating, so I don't eat them there, because I have a tendency to binge when I'm under stress. However, I can have a bag of M & M's in my cabinet at home and portion them out just fine if I want some. In this respect, I know I need to work on my work stress issues rather than blaming the food.
I think @umayster's point was that for people with IR, it isn't about a relationship with food. There is a biological drive, based on hormone and blood glucose which will drive the cravings.
For many people with IR, those M&M's would lead to binges at work and at home, and not because of work stress or work fatigue.... I'm generalizing - this won't be true for all with IR.
That might be her point, but she is wrong. IR, PCOS, T2Dm, etc. do not set up cravings. Even if they did, each person has a choice to give in or not. People need to take responsibility for their choices instead of blaming some unproven biological thing.
Here's what I don't get:
If I knew that I always felt very hungry after eating a certain food or type of food, and that it was difficult for me to resist overeating after consuming it, how does abstinence translate to an abdication of personal responsibility? It would be one thing if I repeatedly binged and claimed there was nothing I could do to stop it, but if I CAN stop it by avoiding that food, isn't it kind of irrational to reject that strategy and instead try to white knuckle through a crisis brought on by my own eating choices?
I shared this upstream, but it seems to address your question.
At work, there is always a bowl of beautiful, colorful, M & M on the kitchen counter next to the coffee machine. I have learned to walk away from them because when I am stressed I will overeat on them, making myself feel sick from the overabundance of food, and I won't even stop then. However, it could be any kind of food at work that I will binge on under stress at work if it's there--fruit, veggies, peanut butter pretzels, cookies, whatever is there. Therefore, it is not the actual food that is causing me to binge, it's something about me that I need to address. In my case, that would be better stress management techniques.
That's why when I see food on the counter at work I walk away 99 percent of the time. However, if I choose to have something, I take a small portion, go to my office and weigh it on my food scale, and log it first. I get to enjoy the snack. That's also why I plan on my meals for work as well and bring my own food. For me, this is taking personal responsibility for my long history of binge eating.
Interestingly enough, I can be around these same foods, and any foods, when I am not stressed, and have no desire to binge on them. I have a snack cabinet at home, some chocolates in the fridge, and I do just fine.
The only food I don't eat are foods I am intolerant or allergic to or those which I don't like. After that, it's whatever I want.0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »
I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
Congrats on the superior self control.
Please understand that simple decision-making is one small element in people's nutritional battle for better weight and health.
You telling someone with a low blood sugar or some other issues they need to explore that it is all 'self control' undermines development of a multitude of strategies making weight loss possible without challenging levels of self control.
What you're projecting is not at all what is being said. Food does not reach out to us, we reach out to the food, therefore we need to change our relationship with food to have some self control. For me, establishing a good relationship with food took a lot of self-educating, exploration of my own issues, and simply learning how to say no to something until I could learn how to eat in moderation. I also still have foods that I feel triggered by.
For example, M & M's at the office are one thing that I have trouble moderating, so I don't eat them there, because I have a tendency to binge when I'm under stress. However, I can have a bag of M & M's in my cabinet at home and portion them out just fine if I want some. In this respect, I know I need to work on my work stress issues rather than blaming the food.
I think @umayster's point was that for people with IR, it isn't about a relationship with food. There is a biological drive, based on hormone and blood glucose which will drive the cravings.
For many people with IR, those M&M's would lead to binges at work and at home, and not because of work stress or work fatigue.... I'm generalizing - this won't be true for all with IR.
That might be her point, but she is wrong. IR, PCOS, T2Dm, etc. do not set up cravings. Even if they did, each person has a choice to give in or not. People need to take responsibility for their choices instead of blaming some unproven biological thing.
Here's what I don't get:
If I knew that I always felt very hungry after eating a certain food or type of food, and that it was difficult for me to resist overeating after consuming it, how does abstinence translate to an abdication of personal responsibility? It would be one thing if I repeatedly binged and claimed there was nothing I could do to stop it, but if I CAN stop it by avoiding that food, isn't it kind of irrational to reject that strategy and instead try to white knuckle through a crisis brought on by my own eating choices?
When (through self education) I finally figured the problem was with the food and it was not me screwing up through bad eating or lack of willpower, I started rearranging my food choices.
I didn't realize for quite a long time that all the nutritional advice regarding carb levels from THE authoritys and experts did not work for me. Then I had to go find some folks on the net who identified similar issues and read a bunch of studies to verify sanity of planned change since all I had was a bunch of random internet dummies who said it was working for them.
It is very difficult to go against everyone I know, ignore most of the food categories in the grocery store and minimize a nutrient that EVERYONE says needs to be half of what you eat, but I did and it worked.
I only talk about it to give others a boost to make their own decisions.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »CICO may not address personal variable the way some may like yet it is a starting point that is not hard to understand and to roughly compute.
While going very low carb dropped my pain/inflammation levels like a rock I have no way to know it was due to cutting out most all sugar and all grains or going very high fat. It could even be a combo the two as far as I know.
What I do know there is no end to the amount of carbs I can eat because one calls for two and two calls for four cascading effect. This could be like drinking milk and eating cookies. However if I try to drink 36% butter fat heavy whipping cream I have a fast croaking response as in I can not force myself to drink more.
For example I can use the same amount of half and half coffee creamer as I use heavy whipping cream and drink four cups of coffee. If using heavy whipping cream I will croak if I try to go past the second cup.
My body will permit me to overeat carbs for some reason but will not let me do so on high fat low carb foods for some reason. This effect is in fact in my case a natural calorie intake restriction number one. Number two I stay full longer when eating high fat foods again making LCHF calorie intake restriction.
Maybe my calories from carbs detector is defective.
CICO addresses weight management. The foods you eat or diet you follow address the rest. For you, going keto help alleviate pain. For others carbs help endurance training or can help promote muscle growth.
What i dont get is why people assume CICO is an eating style, which it is not.
I hear you. CICO is science, an eating style is your dietary plan.
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MakePeasNotWar wrote: »
I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
Congrats on the superior self control.
Please understand that simple decision-making is one small element in people's nutritional battle for better weight and health.
You telling someone with a low blood sugar or some other issues they need to explore that it is all 'self control' undermines development of a multitude of strategies making weight loss possible without challenging levels of self control.
What you're projecting is not at all what is being said. Food does not reach out to us, we reach out to the food, therefore we need to change our relationship with food to have some self control. For me, establishing a good relationship with food took a lot of self-educating, exploration of my own issues, and simply learning how to say no to something until I could learn how to eat in moderation. I also still have foods that I feel triggered by.
For example, M & M's at the office are one thing that I have trouble moderating, so I don't eat them there, because I have a tendency to binge when I'm under stress. However, I can have a bag of M & M's in my cabinet at home and portion them out just fine if I want some. In this respect, I know I need to work on my work stress issues rather than blaming the food.
I think @umayster's point was that for people with IR, it isn't about a relationship with food. There is a biological drive, based on hormone and blood glucose which will drive the cravings.
For many people with IR, those M&M's would lead to binges at work and at home, and not because of work stress or work fatigue.... I'm generalizing - this won't be true for all with IR.
That might be her point, but she is wrong. IR, PCOS, T2Dm, etc. do not set up cravings. Even if they did, each person has a choice to give in or not. People need to take responsibility for their choices instead of blaming some unproven biological thing.
Here's what I don't get:
If I knew that I always felt very hungry after eating a certain food or type of food, and that it was difficult for me to resist overeating after consuming it, how does abstinence translate to an abdication of personal responsibility? It would be one thing if I repeatedly binged and claimed there was nothing I could do to stop it, but if I CAN stop it by avoiding that food, isn't it kind of irrational to reject that strategy and instead try to white knuckle through a crisis brought on by my own eating choices?
When (through self education) I finally figured the problem was with the food and it was not me screwing up through bad eating or lack of willpower, I started rearranging my food choices.
I didn't realize for quite a long time that all the nutritional advice regarding carb levels from THE authoritys and experts did not work for me. Then I had to go find some folks on the net who identified similar issues and read a bunch of studies to verify sanity of planned change since all I had was a bunch of random internet dummies who said it was working for them.
It is very difficult to go against everyone I know, ignore most of the food categories in the grocery store and minimize a nutrient that EVERYONE says needs to be half of what you eat, but I did and it worked.
I only talk about it to give others a boost to make their own decisions.
But, you're choosing to make food the problem and food has no power- it has no thought, no conscience, no action, and does not have the ability to do anything to us. In fact, it's just sitting on the shelf waiting to be put in someone's basket.
I don't get that the consensus is saying that over half of what you eat is carbs, I just get that people are saying carbs are not the bad guy here. It's silly to demonize any macro or food and say they are the problem when we can't control the food to mouth movement.
As for this:I only talk about it to give others a boost to make their own decisions.
How does demonizing carbs give others a boost to make their own decisions?0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »CICO may not address personal variable the way some may like yet it is a starting point that is not hard to understand and to roughly compute.
While going very low carb dropped my pain/inflammation levels like a rock I have no way to know it was due to cutting out most all sugar and all grains or going very high fat. It could even be a combo the two as far as I know.
What I do know there is no end to the amount of carbs I can eat because one calls for two and two calls for four cascading effect. This could be like drinking milk and eating cookies. However if I try to drink 36% butter fat heavy whipping cream I have a fast croaking response as in I can not force myself to drink more.
For example I can use the same amount of half and half coffee creamer as I use heavy whipping cream and drink four cups of coffee. If using heavy whipping cream I will croak if I try to go past the second cup.
My body will permit me to overeat carbs for some reason but will not let me do so on high fat low carb foods for some reason. This effect is in fact in my case a natural calorie intake restriction number one. Number two I stay full longer when eating high fat foods again making LCHF calorie intake restriction.
Maybe my calories from carbs detector is defective.
CICO addresses weight management. The foods you eat or diet you follow address the rest. For you, going keto help alleviate pain. For others carbs help endurance training or can help promote muscle growth.
What i dont get is why people assume CICO is an eating style, which it is not.
I hear you. CICO is science, an eating style is your dietary plan.
I agree. I was referring to the SAD actually. CICO is science less human variables like hormones, etc that can impact weight gain/loss factors from person to person. I was trying to point out even with the limitations of CICO as a science in human weight management it is valid to use as long as we understand there can be many other variables that can impact how we process/burn food that we eat. I see it is like the gross speed of a plane can be known but they have to factor in variables like headwinds, crosswinds, etc to compute net air speed.
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MakePeasNotWar wrote: »
Here's what I don't get:
If I knew that I always felt very hungry after eating a certain food or type of food, and that it was difficult for me to resist overeating after consuming it, how does abstinence translate to an abdication of personal responsibility? It would be one thing if I repeatedly binged and claimed there was nothing I could do to stop it, but if I CAN stop it by avoiding that food, isn't it kind of irrational to reject that strategy and instead try to white knuckle through a crisis brought on by my own eating choices?
That was one of my points. You learn management strategies to deal with your personal trigger foods. I don't keep nuts or peanut butter in the house. I keep them in my car in the parking structure 2 floors below me. Many on here are trying to say that carbs cause people to overeat and therefore should be avoided. That is not true. Carbs do not cause people to binge, not saying no or not finding an alternative is what causes people to binge.
Thanks for explaining; that makes total sense. I thought you were saying that abstinence itself was the issue, as if it was some kind of "cop out" which is why I couldn't understand the reasoning.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »CICO may not address personal variable the way some may like yet it is a starting point that is not hard to understand and to roughly compute.
While going very low carb dropped my pain/inflammation levels like a rock I have no way to know it was due to cutting out most all sugar and all grains or going very high fat. It could even be a combo the two as far as I know.
What I do know there is no end to the amount of carbs I can eat because one calls for two and two calls for four cascading effect. This could be like drinking milk and eating cookies. However if I try to drink 36% butter fat heavy whipping cream I have a fast croaking response as in I can not force myself to drink more.
For example I can use the same amount of half and half coffee creamer as I use heavy whipping cream and drink four cups of coffee. If using heavy whipping cream I will croak if I try to go past the second cup.
My body will permit me to overeat carbs for some reason but will not let me do so on high fat low carb foods for some reason. This effect is in fact in my case a natural calorie intake restriction number one. Number two I stay full longer when eating high fat foods again making LCHF calorie intake restriction.
Maybe my calories from carbs detector is defective.
CICO addresses weight management. The foods you eat or diet you follow address the rest. For you, going keto help alleviate pain. For others carbs help endurance training or can help promote muscle growth.
What i dont get is why people assume CICO is an eating style, which it is not.
I hear you. CICO is science, an eating style is your dietary plan.
I agree. I was referring to the SAD actually. CICO is science less human variables like hormones, etc that can impact weight gain/loss factors from person to person. I was trying to point out even with the limitations of CICO as a science in human weight management it is valid to use as long as we understand there can be many other variables that can impact how we process/burn food that we eat. I see it is like the gross speed of a plane can be known but they have to factor in variables like headwinds, crosswinds, etc to compute net air speed.
Hormones will affect the CO portion of CICO. The only limitation is the fact that its difficult to get a true understanding of how much ones body truly burns. Unfortunately, CICO is rather simplified which is why people constantly misinterprets what it truly means.
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Another thing, I dont understand why so many low carbers always bring up SAD. Most people on this forum dont even follow it. And pretty much everyone at this point in history would suggest to reduce carbs to support increased levela of protein. Protein is the biggest factor as it supports metabolic functions, helps maintain muscle and has in increase in TEF (nice benefit). And honestly, you can either reduce fat or carbs.. whichever you feel is best for yourself. For me i reduce fat to allow for enough carba to maximize my training.
And for all those pro's that do low carb, you will notice its only in the off season. Labron isnt ding keto mid season.0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »
I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
Congrats on the superior self control.
Please understand that simple decision-making is one small element in people's nutritional battle for better weight and health.
You telling someone with a low blood sugar or some other issues they need to explore that it is all 'self control' undermines development of a multitude of strategies making weight loss possible without challenging levels of self control.
What you're projecting is not at all what is being said. Food does not reach out to us, we reach out to the food, therefore we need to change our relationship with food to have some self control. For me, establishing a good relationship with food took a lot of self-educating, exploration of my own issues, and simply learning how to say no to something until I could learn how to eat in moderation. I also still have foods that I feel triggered by.
For example, M & M's at the office are one thing that I have trouble moderating, so I don't eat them there, because I have a tendency to binge when I'm under stress. However, I can have a bag of M & M's in my cabinet at home and portion them out just fine if I want some. In this respect, I know I need to work on my work stress issues rather than blaming the food.
I think @umayster's point was that for people with IR, it isn't about a relationship with food. There is a biological drive, based on hormone and blood glucose which will drive the cravings.
For many people with IR, those M&M's would lead to binges at work and at home, and not because of work stress or work fatigue.... I'm generalizing - this won't be true for all with IR.
That might be her point, but she is wrong. IR, PCOS, T2Dm, etc. do not set up cravings. Even if they did, each person has a choice to give in or not. People need to take responsibility for their choices instead of blaming some unproven biological thing.
Here's what I don't get:
If I knew that I always felt very hungry after eating a certain food or type of food, and that it was difficult for me to resist overeating after consuming it, how does abstinence translate to an abdication of personal responsibility? It would be one thing if I repeatedly binged and claimed there was nothing I could do to stop it, but if I CAN stop it by avoiding that food, isn't it kind of irrational to reject that strategy and instead try to white knuckle through a crisis brought on by my own eating choices?
When (through self education) I finally figured the problem was with the food and it was not me screwing up through bad eating or lack of willpower, I started rearranging my food choices.
I didn't realize for quite a long time that all the nutritional advice regarding carb levels from THE authoritys and experts did not work for me. Then I had to go find some folks on the net who identified similar issues and read a bunch of studies to verify sanity of planned change since all I had was a bunch of random internet dummies who said it was working for them.
It is very difficult to go against everyone I know, ignore most of the food categories in the grocery store and minimize a nutrient that EVERYONE says needs to be half of what you eat, but I did and it worked.
I only talk about it to give others a boost to make their own decisions.
But, you're choosing to make food the problem and food has no power- it has no thought, no conscience, no action, and does not have the ability to do anything to us. In fact, it's just sitting on the shelf waiting to be put in someone's basket.
I don't get that the consensus is saying that over half of what you eat is carbs, I just get that people are saying carbs are not the bad guy here. It's silly to demonize any macro or food and say they are the problem when we can't control the food to mouth movement.
As for this:I only talk about it to give others a boost to make their own decisions.
How does demonizing carbs give others a boost to make their own decisions?
You are confusing me, which choice is more dysfunctional in your opinion?
1/Noticing a pattern of problems with a nutrient & minimizing quantity of nutrient in diet.
2/Noticing a pattern of problems with a nutrient & continue eating it and apply willpower to it power thru its effects.
3/Noticing a pattern of problems with nutrient & ignore them because the problems are all in my head and demonizing a nutrient will hurt my ability to eat correctly.
0 -
Another thing, I dont understand why so many low carbers always bring up SAD. Most people on this forum dont even follow it.
Yeah, I always wonder about the same thing. Seems obvious strawmanning. I easily agree that the SAD has problems (starting with the number of calories, but not limited to that). I simply don't think that the carb percentage is the issue (although mine is lower and likely was when I was getting fat too). I am not convinced that the (relatively minor) shift from fat to carbs within the American diet made much difference.And pretty much everyone at this point in history would suggest to reduce carbs to support increased levela of protein. Protein is the biggest factor as it supports metabolic functions, helps maintain muscle and has in increase in TEF (nice benefit). And honestly, you can either reduce fat or carbs.. whichever you feel is best for yourself. For me i reduce fat to allow for enough carba to maximize my training.
All but some of the vegan types (not all vegans) who think we all eat too much protein, including those on the SAD, and need to up our carbs!
But yeah, this is my view. For most people on a deficit keeping their protein as is or even (in some cases) increasing it is good, so you have to cut somewhere. Mostly taking the cut from carbs, or mostly from fat, or from a mix is a personal preference and makes little difference beyond what is personally sustainable to you.0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »
I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
Congrats on the superior self control.
Please understand that simple decision-making is one small element in people's nutritional battle for better weight and health.
You telling someone with a low blood sugar or some other issues they need to explore that it is all 'self control' undermines development of a multitude of strategies making weight loss possible without challenging levels of self control.
What you're projecting is not at all what is being said. Food does not reach out to us, we reach out to the food, therefore we need to change our relationship with food to have some self control. For me, establishing a good relationship with food took a lot of self-educating, exploration of my own issues, and simply learning how to say no to something until I could learn how to eat in moderation. I also still have foods that I feel triggered by.
For example, M & M's at the office are one thing that I have trouble moderating, so I don't eat them there, because I have a tendency to binge when I'm under stress. However, I can have a bag of M & M's in my cabinet at home and portion them out just fine if I want some. In this respect, I know I need to work on my work stress issues rather than blaming the food.
I think @umayster's point was that for people with IR, it isn't about a relationship with food. There is a biological drive, based on hormone and blood glucose which will drive the cravings.
For many people with IR, those M&M's would lead to binges at work and at home, and not because of work stress or work fatigue.... I'm generalizing - this won't be true for all with IR.
That might be her point, but she is wrong. IR, PCOS, T2Dm, etc. do not set up cravings. Even if they did, each person has a choice to give in or not. People need to take responsibility for their choices instead of blaming some unproven biological thing.
Here's what I don't get:
If I knew that I always felt very hungry after eating a certain food or type of food, and that it was difficult for me to resist overeating after consuming it, how does abstinence translate to an abdication of personal responsibility? It would be one thing if I repeatedly binged and claimed there was nothing I could do to stop it, but if I CAN stop it by avoiding that food, isn't it kind of irrational to reject that strategy and instead try to white knuckle through a crisis brought on by my own eating choices?
When (through self education) I finally figured the problem was with the food and it was not me screwing up through bad eating or lack of willpower, I started rearranging my food choices.
I didn't realize for quite a long time that all the nutritional advice regarding carb levels from THE authoritys and experts did not work for me. Then I had to go find some folks on the net who identified similar issues and read a bunch of studies to verify sanity of planned change since all I had was a bunch of random internet dummies who said it was working for them.
It is very difficult to go against everyone I know, ignore most of the food categories in the grocery store and minimize a nutrient that EVERYONE says needs to be half of what you eat, but I did and it worked.
I only talk about it to give others a boost to make their own decisions.
But, you're choosing to make food the problem and food has no power- it has no thought, no conscience, no action, and does not have the ability to do anything to us. In fact, it's just sitting on the shelf waiting to be put in someone's basket.
I don't get that the consensus is saying that over half of what you eat is carbs, I just get that people are saying carbs are not the bad guy here. It's silly to demonize any macro or food and say they are the problem when we can't control the food to mouth movement.
As for this:I only talk about it to give others a boost to make their own decisions.
How does demonizing carbs give others a boost to make their own decisions?
You are confusing me, which choice is more dysfunctional in your opinion?
1/Noticing a pattern of problems with a nutrient & minimizing quantity of nutrient in diet.
2/Noticing a pattern of problems with a nutrient & continue eating it and apply willpower to it power thru its effects.
3/Noticing a pattern of problems with nutrient & ignore them because the problems are all in my head and demonizing a nutrient will hurt my ability to eat correctly.
Answer to all 3: if you are excessively hungry and can't control it, don't self diagnose but go to the doctor. 0 -
I'm glad I'm not the only one who misinterpreted the title.
Funny, move this thread title to Chit-Chat and it suddenly would be about where to take a date for dessert.0 -
When given the choice of the lesser of two evils, I say screw that, I don't have to pick between two evils, I'm taking a third option.MakePeasNotWar wrote: »
I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
Congrats on the superior self control.
Please understand that simple decision-making is one small element in people's nutritional battle for better weight and health.
You telling someone with a low blood sugar or some other issues they need to explore that it is all 'self control' undermines development of a multitude of strategies making weight loss possible without challenging levels of self control.
What you're projecting is not at all what is being said. Food does not reach out to us, we reach out to the food, therefore we need to change our relationship with food to have some self control. For me, establishing a good relationship with food took a lot of self-educating, exploration of my own issues, and simply learning how to say no to something until I could learn how to eat in moderation. I also still have foods that I feel triggered by.
For example, M & M's at the office are one thing that I have trouble moderating, so I don't eat them there, because I have a tendency to binge when I'm under stress. However, I can have a bag of M & M's in my cabinet at home and portion them out just fine if I want some. In this respect, I know I need to work on my work stress issues rather than blaming the food.
I think @umayster's point was that for people with IR, it isn't about a relationship with food. There is a biological drive, based on hormone and blood glucose which will drive the cravings.
For many people with IR, those M&M's would lead to binges at work and at home, and not because of work stress or work fatigue.... I'm generalizing - this won't be true for all with IR.
That might be her point, but she is wrong. IR, PCOS, T2Dm, etc. do not set up cravings. Even if they did, each person has a choice to give in or not. People need to take responsibility for their choices instead of blaming some unproven biological thing.
Here's what I don't get:
If I knew that I always felt very hungry after eating a certain food or type of food, and that it was difficult for me to resist overeating after consuming it, how does abstinence translate to an abdication of personal responsibility? It would be one thing if I repeatedly binged and claimed there was nothing I could do to stop it, but if I CAN stop it by avoiding that food, isn't it kind of irrational to reject that strategy and instead try to white knuckle through a crisis brought on by my own eating choices?
When (through self education) I finally figured the problem was with the food and it was not me screwing up through bad eating or lack of willpower, I started rearranging my food choices.
I didn't realize for quite a long time that all the nutritional advice regarding carb levels from THE authoritys and experts did not work for me. Then I had to go find some folks on the net who identified similar issues and read a bunch of studies to verify sanity of planned change since all I had was a bunch of random internet dummies who said it was working for them.
It is very difficult to go against everyone I know, ignore most of the food categories in the grocery store and minimize a nutrient that EVERYONE says needs to be half of what you eat, but I did and it worked.
I only talk about it to give others a boost to make their own decisions.
But, you're choosing to make food the problem and food has no power- it has no thought, no conscience, no action, and does not have the ability to do anything to us. In fact, it's just sitting on the shelf waiting to be put in someone's basket.
I don't get that the consensus is saying that over half of what you eat is carbs, I just get that people are saying carbs are not the bad guy here. It's silly to demonize any macro or food and say they are the problem when we can't control the food to mouth movement.
As for this:I only talk about it to give others a boost to make their own decisions.
How does demonizing carbs give others a boost to make their own decisions?
You are confusing me, which choice is more dysfunctional in your opinion?
1/Noticing a pattern of problems with a nutrient & minimizing quantity of nutrient in diet.
2/Noticing a pattern of problems with a nutrient & continue eating it and apply willpower to it power thru its effects.
3/Noticing a pattern of problems with nutrient & ignore them because the problems are all in my head and demonizing a nutrient will hurt my ability to eat correctly.
Moderation and avoiding demonizing foods/nutrients isn't about ignoring the problem. It is actually addressing the most fundamental source of it. The issues aren't happening at a pure, biological level. Honestly, this is missing the whole point of the original post: if it was about a nutrient, we'd have more people saying they can't stop having pixie stix here instead of bread, or even chocolate and cake.
The demonizing of a nutrient is actually setting up the problem to be worse. By making rigid rules, you're setting yourself up for breaking, rather than bending. It's the old parable of the reed versus the willow in the storm.0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »
I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
Congrats on the superior self control.
Please understand that simple decision-making is one small element in people's nutritional battle for better weight and health.
You telling someone with a low blood sugar or some other issues they need to explore that it is all 'self control' undermines development of a multitude of strategies making weight loss possible without challenging levels of self control.
What you're projecting is not at all what is being said. Food does not reach out to us, we reach out to the food, therefore we need to change our relationship with food to have some self control. For me, establishing a good relationship with food took a lot of self-educating, exploration of my own issues, and simply learning how to say no to something until I could learn how to eat in moderation. I also still have foods that I feel triggered by.
For example, M & M's at the office are one thing that I have trouble moderating, so I don't eat them there, because I have a tendency to binge when I'm under stress. However, I can have a bag of M & M's in my cabinet at home and portion them out just fine if I want some. In this respect, I know I need to work on my work stress issues rather than blaming the food.
I think @umayster's point was that for people with IR, it isn't about a relationship with food. There is a biological drive, based on hormone and blood glucose which will drive the cravings.
For many people with IR, those M&M's would lead to binges at work and at home, and not because of work stress or work fatigue.... I'm generalizing - this won't be true for all with IR.
That might be her point, but she is wrong. IR, PCOS, T2Dm, etc. do not set up cravings. Even if they did, each person has a choice to give in or not. People need to take responsibility for their choices instead of blaming some unproven biological thing.
Here's what I don't get:
If I knew that I always felt very hungry after eating a certain food or type of food, and that it was difficult for me to resist overeating after consuming it, how does abstinence translate to an abdication of personal responsibility? It would be one thing if I repeatedly binged and claimed there was nothing I could do to stop it, but if I CAN stop it by avoiding that food, isn't it kind of irrational to reject that strategy and instead try to white knuckle through a crisis brought on by my own eating choices?
When (through self education) I finally figured the problem was with the food and it was not me screwing up through bad eating or lack of willpower, I started rearranging my food choices.
I didn't realize for quite a long time that all the nutritional advice regarding carb levels from THE authoritys and experts did not work for me. Then I had to go find some folks on the net who identified similar issues and read a bunch of studies to verify sanity of planned change since all I had was a bunch of random internet dummies who said it was working for them.
It is very difficult to go against everyone I know, ignore most of the food categories in the grocery store and minimize a nutrient that EVERYONE says needs to be half of what you eat, but I did and it worked.
I only talk about it to give others a boost to make their own decisions.
But, you're choosing to make food the problem and food has no power- it has no thought, no conscience, no action, and does not have the ability to do anything to us. In fact, it's just sitting on the shelf waiting to be put in someone's basket.
I don't get that the consensus is saying that over half of what you eat is carbs, I just get that people are saying carbs are not the bad guy here. It's silly to demonize any macro or food and say they are the problem when we can't control the food to mouth movement.
As for this:I only talk about it to give others a boost to make their own decisions.
How does demonizing carbs give others a boost to make their own decisions?
You are confusing me, which choice is more dysfunctional in your opinion?
1/Noticing a pattern of problems with a nutrient & minimizing quantity of nutrient in diet.
2/Noticing a pattern of problems with a nutrient & continue eating it and apply willpower to it power thru its effects.
3/Noticing a pattern of problems with nutrient & ignore them because the problems are all in my head and demonizing a nutrient will hurt my ability to eat correctly.
Answer to all 3: if you are excessively hungry and can't control it, don't self diagnose but go to the doctor.
The doctors advice was "limit white flour and white sugar". I did that. It wasn't until I started learning no/low carb recipes that I discovered it was possible to eat a meal and not experience tired/foggy brain after effects. My blood work was not at pre-diabetic levels, but simply higher than previous. It was nothing diagnosable.
0 -
SLLRunner said "don't self diagnosis but go to the doctor."MakePeasNotWar wrote: »
I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
Congrats on the superior self control.
Please understand that simple decision-making is one small element in people's nutritional battle for better weight and health.
You telling someone with a low blood sugar or some other issues they need to explore that it is all 'self control' undermines development of a multitude of strategies making weight loss possible without challenging levels of self control.
What you're projecting is not at all what is being said. Food does not reach out to us, we reach out to the food, therefore we need to change our relationship with food to have some self control. For me, establishing a good relationship with food took a lot of self-educating, exploration of my own issues, and simply learning how to say no to something until I could learn how to eat in moderation. I also still have foods that I feel triggered by.
For example, M & M's at the office are one thing that I have trouble moderating, so I don't eat them there, because I have a tendency to binge when I'm under stress. However, I can have a bag of M & M's in my cabinet at home and portion them out just fine if I want some. In this respect, I know I need to work on my work stress issues rather than blaming the food.
I think @umayster's point was that for people with IR, it isn't about a relationship with food. There is a biological drive, based on hormone and blood glucose which will drive the cravings.
For many people with IR, those M&M's would lead to binges at work and at home, and not because of work stress or work fatigue.... I'm generalizing - this won't be true for all with IR.
That might be her point, but she is wrong. IR, PCOS, T2Dm, etc. do not set up cravings. Even if they did, each person has a choice to give in or not. People need to take responsibility for their choices instead of blaming some unproven biological thing.
Here's what I don't get:
If I knew that I always felt very hungry after eating a certain food or type of food, and that it was difficult for me to resist overeating after consuming it, how does abstinence translate to an abdication of personal responsibility? It would be one thing if I repeatedly binged and claimed there was nothing I could do to stop it, but if I CAN stop it by avoiding that food, isn't it kind of irrational to reject that strategy and instead try to white knuckle through a crisis brought on by my own eating choices?
When (through self education) I finally figured the problem was with the food and it was not me screwing up through bad eating or lack of willpower, I started rearranging my food choices.
I didn't realize for quite a long time that all the nutritional advice regarding carb levels from THE authoritys and experts did not work for me. Then I had to go find some folks on the net who identified similar issues and read a bunch of studies to verify sanity of planned change since all I had was a bunch of random internet dummies who said it was working for them.
It is very difficult to go against everyone I know, ignore most of the food categories in the grocery store and minimize a nutrient that EVERYONE says needs to be half of what you eat, but I did and it worked.
I only talk about it to give others a boost to make their own decisions.
But, you're choosing to make food the problem and food has no power- it has no thought, no conscience, no action, and does not have the ability to do anything to us. In fact, it's just sitting on the shelf waiting to be put in someone's basket.
I don't get that the consensus is saying that over half of what you eat is carbs, I just get that people are saying carbs are not the bad guy here. It's silly to demonize any macro or food and say they are the problem when we can't control the food to mouth movement.
As for this:I only talk about it to give others a boost to make their own decisions.
How does demonizing carbs give others a boost to make their own decisions?
You are confusing me, which choice is more dysfunctional in your opinion?
1/Noticing a pattern of problems with a nutrient & minimizing quantity of nutrient in diet.
2/Noticing a pattern of problems with a nutrient & continue eating it and apply willpower to it power thru its effects.
3/Noticing a pattern of problems with nutrient & ignore them because the problems are all in my head and demonizing a nutrient will hurt my ability to eat correctly.
Answer to all 3: if you are excessively hungry and can't control it, don't self diagnose but go to the doctor.
The doctors advice was "limit white flour and white sugar". I did that.
You went to the doctor and she diagnosed you as "limit white flour and white sugar"? That's not any kind of diagnosis I've ever heard of.
0
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