800-pound-man-kicked-out-of-hospital-for-ordering-pizza
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Instead, I'm just appalled at some of the talk here about how to tell whether someone is a "DB" as opposed to "really" having a mental disorder, implications that those with mental disorders must be having just a great time thanks to their "freedom" to "do/eat what they want" (REALLY?).
Try again
My comments were meant to describe what benefits a DB might obtain from such behavior, even though he may not have a mental illness. My repeated question on mental illness is to ask how you can tell that a person has one just by watching videos of them. Hopefully you're a tad less appalled now
'Try again'? Perhaps you'd do better to reconsider the fact that you're repeatedly using the initials DB (shortening them doesn't hide the fact that you mean *kitten*, which is rude at best, and just blatantly mean at worst). Considering that the discussion is about a person who might be mentally ill, it's incredibly offensive, and appalling, that you still can't figure out that it's just not acceptable to do that. A person who is eating himself into an early grave can't be considered mentally healthy. It's obvious that he has some sort of problem, and acting out is just part of his problem. Compassion should be part of everyone's makeup. Name calling is something that should have been left behind on the childhood playground, and even at that aren't we supposed to be teaching our children that it's part of bullying and should never be done at all?
I suppose the bolded answers my question. Is that your opinion, or some sort of established, widely known fact? Sources? Don't countless Americans essentially do just that every day? Are they all assumed to be mentally ill, too?
If I didn't call the person who was described as abusive in the post I initially responded to a potential DB, would it make you feel better?
BED is an established, widely known fact. And I believe that morbid obesity has been recognized as a disease, so yes, it is more than just my opinion.
Basically any morbidly obese person definitely has BED?
I think the argument that someone who has let themselves get to 800+ pounds clearly has something else going on. That just is not normal behavior. Many people reach an established weight based on the number of calories eaten and it becomes maintenance. It is something else entirely to reach 800 pounds.
Interesting. The way I see it, we all have something going on. I just wonder at what point do we ignore all prior transgressions and only see this poor morbidly obese guy who now needs to be pitied and helped. Isn't getting huge what happens when you eat too many calories on a prolonged basis? Isn't ruining your life what happens when you abuse and ignore those that try to guide you in the right direction? At what point does the flip happen when it's no longer something that's your doing / in your control and you're living the consequences of your daily choices and actions? At what stage does one get absolved of accountability and personal responsibility?
At this point we're probably just going around in circles. I suppose I understand the popular opinion that just by being XXX lbs overweight, it automatically means one has one or several mental illnesses. I'm actually doing some light reading on the subject matter - anyone that has any sources or other background on the subject, please feel free to share
Finally, I wonder how many participating in this discussion have actually watched videos of this man
I have. And?
Yes yes Shell, I know you have based on your earlier comments about this abusive man. So that's one. I suspect some of the others hadn't as of the time of posting their comments. I wonder if they experienced how truly vile he was coming across
I watched the video, and it makes no difference in my comments. Whether he has a diagnosis or not, whether he is vile or not, he is still human. It doesn't matter how he comes across to us on TV. He still deserves to be treated like a human being and not called names, or have assumptions made about him.
Assumptions like he definitely has a mental illness, for example?
I suppose my position on the "name calling" that some of you find to be in poor taste is that respect is earned. This person comes across as abusive, extremely disrespectful, i.e. a DB for short. Either that, OR be has a mental illness and his behavior is out of his control. Honestly to me, it's actually disrespectful and dehumanizing to assume he has a mental illness for sure. Hey, you're fat and say things I don't like, can't possibly be in control of your faculties.
The behavior in question here is yours. Name calling, bullying, etc, are absolutely never, ever acceptable. No matter the behavior of another person, or the reason for that behavior, there is no justification for your decision to label anyone with a rude, offensive name. Two wrongs never make a right. I worked in a hospital for years, and I'll tell you this. Sometimes people act out because they have mental problems, and sometimes they act out because they are just miserable people. Regardless of why they act the way that they do, acting rudely back to them never makes you any better. Acting compassionately and empathetically, understanding that they are acting the way they are simply because they are so miserable, can make you a better person, and can actually make you and others feel better.
Don't worry, others feel great around me
So let me get this: someone could be, say, a rapist, and since we don't understand all the details that contributed to their situation we can offer nothing but kindness and respect with regards to their predicament? Poor guy, poor guy, I wonder what went wrong to make him be so awful. I can only imagine what it must be like to offer this kind of unconditional respect and compassion. I can't say such sainthood interests me much. I guess good for you, and you do you, okay? In my world, you reap what you sow, and if you don't want to come across as a DB, you investigate the tools to resolve whatever issues you might have going on and adjust your behavior. No, I don't automatically have compassion for someone who verbally abuses his own father and multiple people unfortunate enough to come across him. And if that makes you a better person than I, I can live with that
Ahh, calling people names like DB wasn't enough....now there is comparing those who may have mental illness or other personality issues to rapists. Unacceptable.
Strawman argument is a strawman, keep it up
nope. It's your horrible comparison. It's unacceptable. If you can't see that, I have no words.
shell, that may be best
I'm just glad that unlike the other person in this thread, it doesn't seem like you work within the population. Thank goodness for that.
So, some words, then
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IdoScience wrote: »
Instead, I'm just appalled at some of the talk here about how to tell whether someone is a "DB" as opposed to "really" having a mental disorder, implications that those with mental disorders must be having just a great time thanks to their "freedom" to "do/eat what they want" (REALLY?).
Try again
My comments were meant to describe what benefits a DB might obtain from such behavior, even though he may not have a mental illness. My repeated question on mental illness is to ask how you can tell that a person has one just by watching videos of them. Hopefully you're a tad less appalled now
'Try again'? Perhaps you'd do better to reconsider the fact that you're repeatedly using the initials DB (shortening them doesn't hide the fact that you mean *kitten*, which is rude at best, and just blatantly mean at worst). Considering that the discussion is about a person who might be mentally ill, it's incredibly offensive, and appalling, that you still can't figure out that it's just not acceptable to do that. A person who is eating himself into an early grave can't be considered mentally healthy. It's obvious that he has some sort of problem, and acting out is just part of his problem. Compassion should be part of everyone's makeup. Name calling is something that should have been left behind on the childhood playground, and even at that aren't we supposed to be teaching our children that it's part of bullying and should never be done at all?
I suppose the bolded answers my question. Is that your opinion, or some sort of established, widely known fact? Sources? Don't countless Americans essentially do just that every day? Are they all assumed to be mentally ill, too?
If I didn't call the person who was described as abusive in the post I initially responded to a potential DB, would it make you feel better?
BED is an established, widely known fact. And I believe that morbid obesity has been recognized as a disease, so yes, it is more than just my opinion.
Basically any morbidly obese person definitely has BED?
I think the argument that someone who has let themselves get to 800+ pounds clearly has something else going on. That just is not normal behavior. Many people reach an established weight based on the number of calories eaten and it becomes maintenance. It is something else entirely to reach 800 pounds.
Interesting. The way I see it, we all have something going on. I just wonder at what point do we ignore all prior transgressions and only see this poor morbidly obese guy who now needs to be pitied and helped. Isn't getting huge what happens when you eat too many calories on a prolonged basis? Isn't ruining your life what happens when you abuse and ignore those that try to guide you in the right direction? At what point does the flip happen when it's no longer something that's your doing / in your control and you're living the consequences of your daily choices and actions? At what stage does one get absolved of accountability and personal responsibility?
At this point we're probably just going around in circles. I suppose I understand the popular opinion that just by being XXX lbs overweight, it automatically means one has one or several mental illnesses. I'm actually doing some light reading on the subject matter - anyone that has any sources or other background on the subject, please feel free to share
Finally, I wonder how many participating in this discussion have actually watched videos of this man
I have. And?
Yes yes Shell, I know you have based on your earlier comments about this abusive man. So that's one. I suspect some of the others hadn't as of the time of posting their comments. I wonder if they experienced how truly vile he was coming across
I watched the video, and it makes no difference in my comments. Whether he has a diagnosis or not, whether he is vile or not, he is still human. It doesn't matter how he comes across to us on TV. He still deserves to be treated like a human being and not called names, or have assumptions made about him.
Assumptions like he definitely has a mental illness, for example?
I suppose my position on the "name calling" that some of you find to be in poor taste is that respect is earned. This person comes across as abusive, extremely disrespectful, i.e. a DB for short. Either that, OR be has a mental illness and his behavior is out of his control. Honestly to me, it's actually disrespectful and dehumanizing to assume he has a mental illness for sure. Hey, you're fat and say things I don't like, can't possibly be in control of your faculties.
The behavior in question here is yours. Name calling, bullying, etc, are absolutely never, ever acceptable. No matter the behavior of another person, or the reason for that behavior, there is no justification for your decision to label anyone with a rude, offensive name. Two wrongs never make a right. I worked in a hospital for years, and I'll tell you this. Sometimes people act out because they have mental problems, and sometimes they act out because they are just miserable people. Regardless of why they act the way that they do, acting rudely back to them never makes you any better. Acting compassionately and empathetically, understanding that they are acting the way they are simply because they are so miserable, can make you a better person, and can actually make you and others feel better.
Don't worry, others feel great around me
So let me get this: someone could be, say, a rapist, and since we don't understand all the details that contributed to their situation we can offer nothing but kindness and respect with regards to their predicament? Poor guy, poor guy, I wonder what went wrong to make him be so awful. I can only imagine what it must be like to offer this kind of unconditional respect and compassion. I can't say such sainthood interests me much. I guess good for you, and you do you, okay? In my world, you reap what you sow, and if you don't want to come across as a DB, you investigate the tools to resolve whatever issues you might have going on and adjust your behavior. No, I don't automatically have compassion for someone who verbally abuses his own father and multiple people unfortunate enough to come across him. And if that makes you a better person than I, I can live with that
Ahh, calling people names like DB wasn't enough....now there is comparing those who may have mental illness or other personality issues to rapists. Unacceptable.
Strawman argument is a strawman, keep it up
nope. It's your horrible comparison. It's unacceptable. If you can't see that, I have no words.
shell, that may be best
I'm just glad that unlike the other person in this thread, it doesn't seem like you work within the population. Thank goodness for that.
So, some words, then
Do the emojis make your hateful thoughts and words better for you???
I agree with you shell1005, I have never seen such cross-eyed and hateful behavior out of someone. Truly appalled
Mustn't have watched the John Assanti videos, then
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Effective treatment usually entails not just respect and compassion but also increasing someone's insight into their own actions and own control over their actions. Treatment for this man would not be 100% validation and sympathy. It would also include a lot of feedback and tasks to take responsibility over choices regardless of what has happened in his life. Treatment includes helping people take a more honest and realistic look at the whole picture. Most people are not truly without some level of choice. Some people don't know how to handle things differently, though, or avoid accepting that they can. If he were to do some intensive treatment, I believe that he could improve his quality of life.
*Didn't mean to include Shell's response in the quote
Yes, I do wonder how much he may be getting insulated from the consequences and feedback of his own behavior
My guess is that he has heard plenty of feedback, but it lacked the respect & compassion needed to hear it.0 -
Effective treatment usually entails not just respect and compassion but also increasing someone's insight into their own actions and own control over their actions. Treatment for this man would not be 100% validation and sympathy. It would also include a lot of feedback and tasks to take responsibility over choices regardless of what has happened in his life. Treatment includes helping people take a more honest and realistic look at the whole picture. Most people are not truly without some level of choice. Some people don't know how to handle things differently, though, or avoid accepting that they can. If he were to do some intensive treatment, I believe that he could improve his quality of life.
*Didn't mean to include Shell's response in the quote
Yes, I do wonder how much he may be getting insulated from the consequences and feedback of his own behavior
My guess is that he has heard plenty of feedback, but it lacked the respect & compassion needed to hear it.
Assuming you're actually talking about him, you don't think he got that, say, in the facility that ultimately asked him to leave?
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Instead, I'm just appalled at some of the talk here about how to tell whether someone is a "DB" as opposed to "really" having a mental disorder, implications that those with mental disorders must be having just a great time thanks to their "freedom" to "do/eat what they want" (REALLY?).
Try again
My comments were meant to describe what benefits a DB might obtain from such behavior, even though he may not have a mental illness. My repeated question on mental illness is to ask how you can tell that a person has one just by watching videos of them. Hopefully you're a tad less appalled now
'Try again'? Perhaps you'd do better to reconsider the fact that you're repeatedly using the initials DB (shortening them doesn't hide the fact that you mean *kitten*, which is rude at best, and just blatantly mean at worst). Considering that the discussion is about a person who might be mentally ill, it's incredibly offensive, and appalling, that you still can't figure out that it's just not acceptable to do that. A person who is eating himself into an early grave can't be considered mentally healthy. It's obvious that he has some sort of problem, and acting out is just part of his problem. Compassion should be part of everyone's makeup. Name calling is something that should have been left behind on the childhood playground, and even at that aren't we supposed to be teaching our children that it's part of bullying and should never be done at all?
I suppose the bolded answers my question. Is that your opinion, or some sort of established, widely known fact? Sources? Don't countless Americans essentially do just that every day? Are they all assumed to be mentally ill, too?
If I didn't call the person who was described as abusive in the post I initially responded to a potential DB, would it make you feel better?
BED is an established, widely known fact. And I believe that morbid obesity has been recognized as a disease, so yes, it is more than just my opinion.
Basically any morbidly obese person definitely has BED?
I think the argument that someone who has let themselves get to 800+ pounds clearly has something else going on. That just is not normal behavior. Many people reach an established weight based on the number of calories eaten and it becomes maintenance. It is something else entirely to reach 800 pounds.
Interesting. The way I see it, we all have something going on. I just wonder at what point do we ignore all prior transgressions and only see this poor morbidly obese guy who now needs to be pitied and helped. Isn't getting huge what happens when you eat too many calories on a prolonged basis? Isn't ruining your life what happens when you abuse and ignore those that try to guide you in the right direction? At what point does the flip happen when it's no longer something that's your doing / in your control and you're living the consequences of your daily choices and actions? At what stage does one get absolved of accountability and personal responsibility?
At this point we're probably just going around in circles. I suppose I understand the popular opinion that just by being XXX lbs overweight, it automatically means one has one or several mental illnesses. I'm actually doing some light reading on the subject matter - anyone that has any sources or other background on the subject, please feel free to share
Finally, I wonder how many participating in this discussion have actually watched videos of this man
I have. And?
Yes yes Shell, I know you have based on your earlier comments about this abusive man. So that's one. I suspect some of the others hadn't as of the time of posting their comments. I wonder if they experienced how truly vile he was coming across
I watched the video, and it makes no difference in my comments. Whether he has a diagnosis or not, whether he is vile or not, he is still human. It doesn't matter how he comes across to us on TV. He still deserves to be treated like a human being and not called names, or have assumptions made about him.
Assumptions like he definitely has a mental illness, for example?
I suppose my position on the "name calling" that some of you find to be in poor taste is that respect is earned. This person comes across as abusive, extremely disrespectful, i.e. a DB for short. Either that, OR be has a mental illness and his behavior is out of his control. Honestly to me, it's actually disrespectful and dehumanizing to assume he has a mental illness for sure. Hey, you're fat and say things I don't like, can't possibly be in control of your faculties.
The behavior in question here is yours. Name calling, bullying, etc, are absolutely never, ever acceptable. No matter the behavior of another person, or the reason for that behavior, there is no justification for your decision to label anyone with a rude, offensive name. Two wrongs never make a right. I worked in a hospital for years, and I'll tell you this. Sometimes people act out because they have mental problems, and sometimes they act out because they are just miserable people. Regardless of why they act the way that they do, acting rudely back to them never makes you any better. Acting compassionately and empathetically, understanding that they are acting the way they are simply because they are so miserable, can make you a better person, and can actually make you and others feel better.
Don't worry, others feel great around me
So let me get this: someone could be, say, a rapist, and since we don't understand all the details that contributed to their situation we can offer nothing but kindness and respect with regards to their predicament? Poor guy, poor guy, I wonder what went wrong to make him be so awful. I can only imagine what it must be like to offer this kind of unconditional respect and compassion. I can't say such sainthood interests me much. I guess good for you, and you do you, okay? In my world, you reap what you sow, and if you don't want to come across as a DB, you investigate the tools to resolve whatever issues you might have going on and adjust your behavior. No, I don't automatically have compassion for someone who verbally abuses his own father and multiple people unfortunate enough to come across him. And if that makes you a better person than I, I can live with that
Working in the medical field, yes. No matter what the person in the room did, that person is there to receive medical attention and care for the condition for which he or she was admitted. Regardless of the person's past history (which the medical professional doesn't usually know), the person receives compassionate care and treatment. Even if the person treats staff rudely and says inappropriate things. Remember, this person is in a bad place in life - often in pain, whether it is mental or physical. Striking out at the people around him or her is common. That's not to say it's acceptable behavior, and the patient is told that it's not, (and if it's physical, and the patient is a danger to caregivers, restraints can be used) but the people providing the care do not get to return the poor treatment. Instead, we lead the way with compassion and empathy.
And as a fellow human being, in the everyday world, when people strike out with poor behavior, I still try to remember that. I don't know what people are suffering. I can only imagine what this man's life is like - it must be painful and miserable, and he's been enabled and poorly handled his entire life. So he strikes out and treats people poorly - yes, that makes him not a very nice person.
It doesn't give anyone else permission to call him names, or treat him poorly in return. Ever.0 -
It doesn't matter what they've done. You're not a judge and you're not sitting on a jury. You're there to do your work.
Instead, I'm just appalled at some of the talk here about how to tell whether someone is a "DB" as opposed to "really" having a mental disorder, implications that those with mental disorders must be having just a great time thanks to their "freedom" to "do/eat what they want" (REALLY?).
Try again
My comments were meant to describe what benefits a DB might obtain from such behavior, even though he may not have a mental illness. My repeated question on mental illness is to ask how you can tell that a person has one just by watching videos of them. Hopefully you're a tad less appalled now
'Try again'? Perhaps you'd do better to reconsider the fact that you're repeatedly using the initials DB (shortening them doesn't hide the fact that you mean *kitten*, which is rude at best, and just blatantly mean at worst). Considering that the discussion is about a person who might be mentally ill, it's incredibly offensive, and appalling, that you still can't figure out that it's just not acceptable to do that. A person who is eating himself into an early grave can't be considered mentally healthy. It's obvious that he has some sort of problem, and acting out is just part of his problem. Compassion should be part of everyone's makeup. Name calling is something that should have been left behind on the childhood playground, and even at that aren't we supposed to be teaching our children that it's part of bullying and should never be done at all?
I suppose the bolded answers my question. Is that your opinion, or some sort of established, widely known fact? Sources? Don't countless Americans essentially do just that every day? Are they all assumed to be mentally ill, too?
If I didn't call the person who was described as abusive in the post I initially responded to a potential DB, would it make you feel better?
BED is an established, widely known fact. And I believe that morbid obesity has been recognized as a disease, so yes, it is more than just my opinion.
Basically any morbidly obese person definitely has BED?
I think the argument that someone who has let themselves get to 800+ pounds clearly has something else going on. That just is not normal behavior. Many people reach an established weight based on the number of calories eaten and it becomes maintenance. It is something else entirely to reach 800 pounds.
Interesting. The way I see it, we all have something going on. I just wonder at what point do we ignore all prior transgressions and only see this poor morbidly obese guy who now needs to be pitied and helped. Isn't getting huge what happens when you eat too many calories on a prolonged basis? Isn't ruining your life what happens when you abuse and ignore those that try to guide you in the right direction? At what point does the flip happen when it's no longer something that's your doing / in your control and you're living the consequences of your daily choices and actions? At what stage does one get absolved of accountability and personal responsibility?
At this point we're probably just going around in circles. I suppose I understand the popular opinion that just by being XXX lbs overweight, it automatically means one has one or several mental illnesses. I'm actually doing some light reading on the subject matter - anyone that has any sources or other background on the subject, please feel free to share
Finally, I wonder how many participating in this discussion have actually watched videos of this man
I have. And?
Yes yes Shell, I know you have based on your earlier comments about this abusive man. So that's one. I suspect some of the others hadn't as of the time of posting their comments. I wonder if they experienced how truly vile he was coming across
I watched the video, and it makes no difference in my comments. Whether he has a diagnosis or not, whether he is vile or not, he is still human. It doesn't matter how he comes across to us on TV. He still deserves to be treated like a human being and not called names, or have assumptions made about him.
Assumptions like he definitely has a mental illness, for example?
I suppose my position on the "name calling" that some of you find to be in poor taste is that respect is earned. This person comes across as abusive, extremely disrespectful, i.e. a DB for short. Either that, OR be has a mental illness and his behavior is out of his control. Honestly to me, it's actually disrespectful and dehumanizing to assume he has a mental illness for sure. Hey, you're fat and say things I don't like, can't possibly be in control of your faculties.
The behavior in question here is yours. Name calling, bullying, etc, are absolutely never, ever acceptable. No matter the behavior of another person, or the reason for that behavior, there is no justification for your decision to label anyone with a rude, offensive name. Two wrongs never make a right. I worked in a hospital for years, and I'll tell you this. Sometimes people act out because they have mental problems, and sometimes they act out because they are just miserable people. Regardless of why they act the way that they do, acting rudely back to them never makes you any better. Acting compassionately and empathetically, understanding that they are acting the way they are simply because they are so miserable, can make you a better person, and can actually make you and others feel better.
Don't worry, others feel great around me
So let me get this: someone could be, say, a rapist, and since we don't understand all the details that contributed to their situation we can offer nothing but kindness and respect with regards to their predicament? Poor guy, poor guy, I wonder what went wrong to make him be so awful. I can only imagine what it must be like to offer this kind of unconditional respect and compassion. I can't say such sainthood interests me much. I guess good for you, and you do you, okay? In my world, you reap what you sow, and if you don't want to come across as a DB, you investigate the tools to resolve whatever issues you might have going on and adjust your behavior. No, I don't automatically have compassion for someone who verbally abuses his own father and multiple people unfortunate enough to come across him. And if that makes you a better person than I, I can live with that
There are going to be people you like more or less. That's just human nature. But if you begin treating people badly because you don't like them, then you're no better than they are. And you might be worse, since you're in a position to know better.
It is hard to love the violent people. It isn't hard to rise above that and treat them as humans. Humans who must be watched every second so that they don't go attacking other patients! But humans, all the same. The first time is the hardest. Well, no, the first time is the creepiest. The first time one of them tries to attack someone else - that's the hardest. After a while, like everything else, you get used to it. It doesn't seem so odd. Part of the job.
If you start passing judgement and treating those you like better than those you don't...first, you'll not be happy with yourself. Second, how far do you take it? Finally, you're dropping down to their level (which kind of goes back to the first thing, lol.)
Everyone has to look in the mirror. What kind of person do you want to be? The kind who tries to hurt others or the kind who doesn't?
It's not about them. It's about you and what kind of person you want to be.1 -
Some people with lower levels of wellness are rapists.
Instead, I'm just appalled at some of the talk here about how to tell whether someone is a "DB" as opposed to "really" having a mental disorder, implications that those with mental disorders must be having just a great time thanks to their "freedom" to "do/eat what they want" (REALLY?).
Try again
My comments were meant to describe what benefits a DB might obtain from such behavior, even though he may not have a mental illness. My repeated question on mental illness is to ask how you can tell that a person has one just by watching videos of them. Hopefully you're a tad less appalled now
'Try again'? Perhaps you'd do better to reconsider the fact that you're repeatedly using the initials DB (shortening them doesn't hide the fact that you mean *kitten*, which is rude at best, and just blatantly mean at worst). Considering that the discussion is about a person who might be mentally ill, it's incredibly offensive, and appalling, that you still can't figure out that it's just not acceptable to do that. A person who is eating himself into an early grave can't be considered mentally healthy. It's obvious that he has some sort of problem, and acting out is just part of his problem. Compassion should be part of everyone's makeup. Name calling is something that should have been left behind on the childhood playground, and even at that aren't we supposed to be teaching our children that it's part of bullying and should never be done at all?
I suppose the bolded answers my question. Is that your opinion, or some sort of established, widely known fact? Sources? Don't countless Americans essentially do just that every day? Are they all assumed to be mentally ill, too?
If I didn't call the person who was described as abusive in the post I initially responded to a potential DB, would it make you feel better?
BED is an established, widely known fact. And I believe that morbid obesity has been recognized as a disease, so yes, it is more than just my opinion.
Basically any morbidly obese person definitely has BED?
I think the argument that someone who has let themselves get to 800+ pounds clearly has something else going on. That just is not normal behavior. Many people reach an established weight based on the number of calories eaten and it becomes maintenance. It is something else entirely to reach 800 pounds.
Interesting. The way I see it, we all have something going on. I just wonder at what point do we ignore all prior transgressions and only see this poor morbidly obese guy who now needs to be pitied and helped. Isn't getting huge what happens when you eat too many calories on a prolonged basis? Isn't ruining your life what happens when you abuse and ignore those that try to guide you in the right direction? At what point does the flip happen when it's no longer something that's your doing / in your control and you're living the consequences of your daily choices and actions? At what stage does one get absolved of accountability and personal responsibility?
At this point we're probably just going around in circles. I suppose I understand the popular opinion that just by being XXX lbs overweight, it automatically means one has one or several mental illnesses. I'm actually doing some light reading on the subject matter - anyone that has any sources or other background on the subject, please feel free to share
Finally, I wonder how many participating in this discussion have actually watched videos of this man
I have. And?
Yes yes Shell, I know you have based on your earlier comments about this abusive man. So that's one. I suspect some of the others hadn't as of the time of posting their comments. I wonder if they experienced how truly vile he was coming across
I watched the video, and it makes no difference in my comments. Whether he has a diagnosis or not, whether he is vile or not, he is still human. It doesn't matter how he comes across to us on TV. He still deserves to be treated like a human being and not called names, or have assumptions made about him.
Assumptions like he definitely has a mental illness, for example?
I suppose my position on the "name calling" that some of you find to be in poor taste is that respect is earned. This person comes across as abusive, extremely disrespectful, i.e. a DB for short. Either that, OR be has a mental illness and his behavior is out of his control. Honestly to me, it's actually disrespectful and dehumanizing to assume he has a mental illness for sure. Hey, you're fat and say things I don't like, can't possibly be in control of your faculties.
The behavior in question here is yours. Name calling, bullying, etc, are absolutely never, ever acceptable. No matter the behavior of another person, or the reason for that behavior, there is no justification for your decision to label anyone with a rude, offensive name. Two wrongs never make a right. I worked in a hospital for years, and I'll tell you this. Sometimes people act out because they have mental problems, and sometimes they act out because they are just miserable people. Regardless of why they act the way that they do, acting rudely back to them never makes you any better. Acting compassionately and empathetically, understanding that they are acting the way they are simply because they are so miserable, can make you a better person, and can actually make you and others feel better.
Don't worry, others feel great around me
So let me get this: someone could be, say, a rapist, and since we don't understand all the details that contributed to their situation we can offer nothing but kindness and respect with regards to their predicament? Poor guy, poor guy, I wonder what went wrong to make him be so awful. I can only imagine what it must be like to offer this kind of unconditional respect and compassion. I can't say such sainthood interests me much. I guess good for you, and you do you, okay? In my world, you reap what you sow, and if you don't want to come across as a DB, you investigate the tools to resolve whatever issues you might have going on and adjust your behavior. No, I don't automatically have compassion for someone who verbally abuses his own father and multiple people unfortunate enough to come across him. And if that makes you a better person than I, I can live with that
Ahh, calling people names like DB wasn't enough....now there is comparing those who may have mental illness or other personality issues to rapists. Unacceptable.
So, it's a valid question, whether you accept it or not.
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kshama2001 wrote: »He's also been in the state hospitals in Taunton and Worcester. Taunton was rather old and decrepid, but not bad in terms of how he was treated. Worcester is a beautiful new facility, but, well, too long a story to go into here. Neither were like Bridgewater, which does have a different mission.
I'm so sorry he had to go through whatever he went through.
I knew someone, once, who took too much pleasure in his job of restraining the violent. He was let go, but if know he probably found employment elsewhere. People have to watch for that. That kind of work will draw GOOD people who want to help protect others, but it will also sometimes draw people who want to take advantage of their position.
I hope he's doing well and being well cared for now.1 -
It doesn't matter what they've done. You're not a judge and you're not sitting on a jury. You're there to do your work.
Instead, I'm just appalled at some of the talk here about how to tell whether someone is a "DB" as opposed to "really" having a mental disorder, implications that those with mental disorders must be having just a great time thanks to their "freedom" to "do/eat what they want" (REALLY?).
Try again
My comments were meant to describe what benefits a DB might obtain from such behavior, even though he may not have a mental illness. My repeated question on mental illness is to ask how you can tell that a person has one just by watching videos of them. Hopefully you're a tad less appalled now
'Try again'? Perhaps you'd do better to reconsider the fact that you're repeatedly using the initials DB (shortening them doesn't hide the fact that you mean *kitten*, which is rude at best, and just blatantly mean at worst). Considering that the discussion is about a person who might be mentally ill, it's incredibly offensive, and appalling, that you still can't figure out that it's just not acceptable to do that. A person who is eating himself into an early grave can't be considered mentally healthy. It's obvious that he has some sort of problem, and acting out is just part of his problem. Compassion should be part of everyone's makeup. Name calling is something that should have been left behind on the childhood playground, and even at that aren't we supposed to be teaching our children that it's part of bullying and should never be done at all?
I suppose the bolded answers my question. Is that your opinion, or some sort of established, widely known fact? Sources? Don't countless Americans essentially do just that every day? Are they all assumed to be mentally ill, too?
If I didn't call the person who was described as abusive in the post I initially responded to a potential DB, would it make you feel better?
BED is an established, widely known fact. And I believe that morbid obesity has been recognized as a disease, so yes, it is more than just my opinion.
Basically any morbidly obese person definitely has BED?
I think the argument that someone who has let themselves get to 800+ pounds clearly has something else going on. That just is not normal behavior. Many people reach an established weight based on the number of calories eaten and it becomes maintenance. It is something else entirely to reach 800 pounds.
Interesting. The way I see it, we all have something going on. I just wonder at what point do we ignore all prior transgressions and only see this poor morbidly obese guy who now needs to be pitied and helped. Isn't getting huge what happens when you eat too many calories on a prolonged basis? Isn't ruining your life what happens when you abuse and ignore those that try to guide you in the right direction? At what point does the flip happen when it's no longer something that's your doing / in your control and you're living the consequences of your daily choices and actions? At what stage does one get absolved of accountability and personal responsibility?
At this point we're probably just going around in circles. I suppose I understand the popular opinion that just by being XXX lbs overweight, it automatically means one has one or several mental illnesses. I'm actually doing some light reading on the subject matter - anyone that has any sources or other background on the subject, please feel free to share
Finally, I wonder how many participating in this discussion have actually watched videos of this man
I have. And?
Yes yes Shell, I know you have based on your earlier comments about this abusive man. So that's one. I suspect some of the others hadn't as of the time of posting their comments. I wonder if they experienced how truly vile he was coming across
I watched the video, and it makes no difference in my comments. Whether he has a diagnosis or not, whether he is vile or not, he is still human. It doesn't matter how he comes across to us on TV. He still deserves to be treated like a human being and not called names, or have assumptions made about him.
Assumptions like he definitely has a mental illness, for example?
I suppose my position on the "name calling" that some of you find to be in poor taste is that respect is earned. This person comes across as abusive, extremely disrespectful, i.e. a DB for short. Either that, OR be has a mental illness and his behavior is out of his control. Honestly to me, it's actually disrespectful and dehumanizing to assume he has a mental illness for sure. Hey, you're fat and say things I don't like, can't possibly be in control of your faculties.
The behavior in question here is yours. Name calling, bullying, etc, are absolutely never, ever acceptable. No matter the behavior of another person, or the reason for that behavior, there is no justification for your decision to label anyone with a rude, offensive name. Two wrongs never make a right. I worked in a hospital for years, and I'll tell you this. Sometimes people act out because they have mental problems, and sometimes they act out because they are just miserable people. Regardless of why they act the way that they do, acting rudely back to them never makes you any better. Acting compassionately and empathetically, understanding that they are acting the way they are simply because they are so miserable, can make you a better person, and can actually make you and others feel better.
Don't worry, others feel great around me
So let me get this: someone could be, say, a rapist, and since we don't understand all the details that contributed to their situation we can offer nothing but kindness and respect with regards to their predicament? Poor guy, poor guy, I wonder what went wrong to make him be so awful. I can only imagine what it must be like to offer this kind of unconditional respect and compassion. I can't say such sainthood interests me much. I guess good for you, and you do you, okay? In my world, you reap what you sow, and if you don't want to come across as a DB, you investigate the tools to resolve whatever issues you might have going on and adjust your behavior. No, I don't automatically have compassion for someone who verbally abuses his own father and multiple people unfortunate enough to come across him. And if that makes you a better person than I, I can live with that
There are going to be people you like more or less. That's just human nature. But if you begin treating people badly because you don't like them, then you're no better than they are. And you might be worse, since you're in a position to know better.
It is hard to love the violent people. It isn't hard to rise above that and treat them as humans. Humans who must be watched every second so that they don't go attacking other patients! But humans, all the same. The first time is the hardest. Well, no, the first time is the creepiest. The first time one of them tries to attack someone else - that's the hardest. After a while, like everything else, you get used to it. It doesn't seem so odd. Part of the job.
If you start passing judgement and treating those you like better than those you don't...first, you'll not be happy with yourself. Second, how far do you take it? Finally, you're dropping down to their level (which kind of goes back to the first thing, lol.)
Everyone has to look in the mirror. What kind of person do you want to be? The kind who tries to hurt others or the kind who doesn't?
It's not about them. It's about you and what kind of person you want to be.
this was very well said. I agree, completely.0 -
It doesn't matter what they've done. You're not a judge and you're not sitting on a jury. You're there to do your work.
There are going to be people you like more or less. That's just human nature. But if you begin treating people badly because you don't like them, then you're no better than they are. And you might be worse, since you're in a position to know better.
FYI I was asking from an outside observers perspective, rather than a health professional in a work setting. To me, in that context, Professional would be key and hopefully a requirement to perform the job on a daily basis
If you witnessed someone being verbally abusive to another, I suppose outside of a health care facility, would your first thought really be "I wonder what this gentleman is going through"? I suppose it could be nice to think that we're not judged by our actions or character. But we are. Everyday. I do not have a problem with that
But for what it's worth, I've enjoyed reading yours and McCindy's latest insights
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Honestly, when I hear people being verbally abusive, I assume they may have wellness issues. I'm not sure why, but I go with that until I'm proven wrong. I'm not sure if it's my life experience, lol, or if it's me. Healthy, happy, well-adjusted people just don't go out of their way to hurt others like that, so if they're being that mean, something is usually up.It doesn't matter what they've done. You're not a judge and you're not sitting on a jury. You're there to do your work.
There are going to be people you like more or less. That's just human nature. But if you begin treating people badly because you don't like them, then you're no better than they are. And you might be worse, since you're in a position to know better.
FYI I was asking from an outside observers perspective, rather than a health professional in a work setting. To me, in that context, Professional would be key and hopefully a requirement to perform the job on a daily basis
If you witnessed someone being verbally abusive to another, I suppose outside of a health care facility, would your first thought really be "I wonder what this gentleman is going through"? I suppose it could be nice to think that we're not judged by our actions or character. But we are. Everyday. I do not have a problem with that
But for what it's worth, I've enjoyed reading yours and McCindy's latest insights
I really don't hear a lot of it in public, but No, I don't immediately pity the abuser.
I didn't mean to imply that YOU weren't a good person and hope it didn't come across that way.
I was just explaining, from my personal perspective how I see it. When I said "you" it was SO not an "I'm better than you-ou" kind of deal. I hope you got that. I meant more me, than you and probably should've phrased it that way.
I think it's an interesting question and anyone (who isn't a saint) who deals with people that probably don't deserve to be treated well has had a sort of surreal moment where they realize they're being kind or at least civil to someone they consider undeserving...or even a monster. "He killed people and I'm asking if he'd like syrup on his pancakes." You ponder it. You kind of have to. When you start, it really does seem bizarre.
We treat them well, anyway, because it's about us and not about them.
I don't want to see a nazi when I look in the mirror.
I'll be nice and let God sort out the rest. That's how I see it.2 -
Effective treatment usually entails not just respect and compassion but also increasing someone's insight into their own actions and own control over their actions. Treatment for this man would not be 100% validation and sympathy. It would also include a lot of feedback and tasks to take responsibility over choices regardless of what has happened in his life. Treatment includes helping people take a more honest and realistic look at the whole picture. Most people are not truly without some level of choice. Some people don't know how to handle things differently, though, or avoid accepting that they can. If he were to do some intensive treatment, I believe that he could improve his quality of life.
*Didn't mean to include Shell's response in the quote
Yes, I do wonder how much he may be getting insulated from the consequences and feedback of his own behavior
My guess is that he has heard plenty of feedback, but it lacked the respect & compassion needed to hear it.
Assuming you're actually talking about him, you don't think he got that, say, in the facility that ultimately asked him to leave?
I have no way of knowing how he was treated in that facility, so I have no reason to assume he didn't. But it doesn't take a leap of faith to assume that the feedback in his life hasn't been 100% positive and empathic. You don't get that angry because of a lifetime of being treated kindly. Any respect and compassion he received in the facility is a good start, but I wouldn't guess that treatment would be quickly effective. (I'm not exonerating him here, either. His treatment of others outside the health profession is as much a part of the equation. Even in the health profession, I'd be shocked if he hadn't had some less than professional experiences.)0 -
Effective treatment usually entails not just respect and compassion but also increasing someone's insight into their own actions and own control over their actions. Treatment for this man would not be 100% validation and sympathy. It would also include a lot of feedback and tasks to take responsibility over choices regardless of what has happened in his life. Treatment includes helping people take a more honest and realistic look at the whole picture. Most people are not truly without some level of choice. Some people don't know how to handle things differently, though, or avoid accepting that they can. If he were to do some intensive treatment, I believe that he could improve his quality of life.
*Didn't mean to include Shell's response in the quote
Yes, I do wonder how much he may be getting insulated from the consequences and feedback of his own behavior
My guess is that he has heard plenty of feedback, but it lacked the respect & compassion needed to hear it.
Assuming you're actually talking about him, you don't think he got that, say, in the facility that ultimately asked him to leave?
I have no way of knowing how he was treated in that facility, so I have no reason to assume he didn't. But it doesn't take a leap of faith to assume that the feedback in his life hasn't been 100% positive and empathic. You don't get that angry because of a lifetime of being treated kindly. Any respect and compassion he received in the facility is a good start, but I wouldn't guess that treatment would be quickly effective. (I'm not exonerating him here, either. His treatment of others outside the health profession is as much a part of the equation. Even in the health profession, I'd be shocked if he hadn't had some less than professional experiences.)
Cool
I watched one of his "set the record straight" videos. He wasn't ranting in this one at all. He calmly explained that he was disgusted by the hospital's behavior because they allowed him to accept delivery of the pizza in his condition. Didn't block the phones, or the front door, or the receptions desk, or his room door ETC. Then I believe one of the commenters said he had been at that facility undergoing treatment for three years? Surely that's not possible
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Instead, I'm just appalled at some of the talk here about how to tell whether someone is a "DB" as opposed to "really" having a mental disorder, implications that those with mental disorders must be having just a great time thanks to their "freedom" to "do/eat what they want" (REALLY?).
Try again
My comments were meant to describe what benefits a DB might obtain from such behavior, even though he may not have a mental illness. My repeated question on mental illness is to ask how you can tell that a person has one just by watching videos of them. Hopefully you're a tad less appalled now
'Try again'? Perhaps you'd do better to reconsider the fact that you're repeatedly using the initials DB (shortening them doesn't hide the fact that you mean *kitten*, which is rude at best, and just blatantly mean at worst). Considering that the discussion is about a person who might be mentally ill, it's incredibly offensive, and appalling, that you still can't figure out that it's just not acceptable to do that. A person who is eating himself into an early grave can't be considered mentally healthy. It's obvious that he has some sort of problem, and acting out is just part of his problem. Compassion should be part of everyone's makeup. Name calling is something that should have been left behind on the childhood playground, and even at that aren't we supposed to be teaching our children that it's part of bullying and should never be done at all?
I suppose the bolded answers my question. Is that your opinion, or some sort of established, widely known fact? Sources? Don't countless Americans essentially do just that every day? Are they all assumed to be mentally ill, too?
If I didn't call the person who was described as abusive in the post I initially responded to a potential DB, would it make you feel better?
BED is an established, widely known fact. And I believe that morbid obesity has been recognized as a disease, so yes, it is more than just my opinion.
Basically any morbidly obese person definitely has BED?
I think the argument that someone who has let themselves get to 800+ pounds clearly has something else going on. That just is not normal behavior. Many people reach an established weight based on the number of calories eaten and it becomes maintenance. It is something else entirely to reach 800 pounds.
Interesting. The way I see it, we all have something going on. I just wonder at what point do we ignore all prior transgressions and only see this poor morbidly obese guy who now needs to be pitied and helped. Isn't getting huge what happens when you eat too many calories on a prolonged basis? Isn't ruining your life what happens when you abuse and ignore those that try to guide you in the right direction? At what point does the flip happen when it's no longer something that's your doing / in your control and you're living the consequences of your daily choices and actions? At what stage does one get absolved of accountability and personal responsibility?
At this point we're probably just going around in circles. I suppose I understand the popular opinion that just by being XXX lbs overweight, it automatically means one has one or several mental illnesses. I'm actually doing some light reading on the subject matter - anyone that has any sources or other background on the subject, please feel free to share
Finally, I wonder how many participating in this discussion have actually watched videos of this man
I have. And?
Yes yes Shell, I know you have based on your earlier comments about this abusive man. So that's one. I suspect some of the others hadn't as of the time of posting their comments. I wonder if they experienced how truly vile he was coming across
I watched the video, and it makes no difference in my comments. Whether he has a diagnosis or not, whether he is vile or not, he is still human. It doesn't matter how he comes across to us on TV. He still deserves to be treated like a human being and not called names, or have assumptions made about him.
Assumptions like he definitely has a mental illness, for example?
I suppose my position on the "name calling" that some of you find to be in poor taste is that respect is earned. This person comes across as abusive, extremely disrespectful, i.e. a DB for short. Either that, OR be has a mental illness and his behavior is out of his control. Honestly to me, it's actually disrespectful and dehumanizing to assume he has a mental illness for sure. Hey, you're fat and say things I don't like, can't possibly be in control of your faculties.
The behavior in question here is yours. Name calling, bullying, etc, are absolutely never, ever acceptable. No matter the behavior of another person, or the reason for that behavior, there is no justification for your decision to label anyone with a rude, offensive name. Two wrongs never make a right. I worked in a hospital for years, and I'll tell you this. Sometimes people act out because they have mental problems, and sometimes they act out because they are just miserable people. Regardless of why they act the way that they do, acting rudely back to them never makes you any better. Acting compassionately and empathetically, understanding that they are acting the way they are simply because they are so miserable, can make you a better person, and can actually make you and others feel better.
Don't worry, others feel great around me
So let me get this: someone could be, say, a rapist, and since we don't understand all the details that contributed to their situation we can offer nothing but kindness and respect with regards to their predicament? Poor guy, poor guy, I wonder what went wrong to make him be so awful. I can only imagine what it must be like to offer this kind of unconditional respect and compassion. I can't say such sainthood interests me much. I guess good for you, and you do you, okay? In my world, you reap what you sow, and if you don't want to come across as a DB, you investigate the tools to resolve whatever issues you might have going on and adjust your behavior. No, I don't automatically have compassion for someone who verbally abuses his own father and multiple people unfortunate enough to come across him. And if that makes you a better person than I, I can live with that
Ahh, calling people names like DB wasn't enough....now there is comparing those who may have mental illness or other personality issues to rapists. Unacceptable.
Strawman argument is a strawman, keep it up
I agree, comparing a person who says rude thing to his father to a rapists is a bigger strawman than you'll see at Burning Man. I don't get how you can call it a strawman that you're being called out for making that comparison though.0 -
Instead, I'm just appalled at some of the talk here about how to tell whether someone is a "DB" as opposed to "really" having a mental disorder, implications that those with mental disorders must be having just a great time thanks to their "freedom" to "do/eat what they want" (REALLY?).
Try again
My comments were meant to describe what benefits a DB might obtain from such behavior, even though he may not have a mental illness. My repeated question on mental illness is to ask how you can tell that a person has one just by watching videos of them. Hopefully you're a tad less appalled now
'Try again'? Perhaps you'd do better to reconsider the fact that you're repeatedly using the initials DB (shortening them doesn't hide the fact that you mean *kitten*, which is rude at best, and just blatantly mean at worst). Considering that the discussion is about a person who might be mentally ill, it's incredibly offensive, and appalling, that you still can't figure out that it's just not acceptable to do that. A person who is eating himself into an early grave can't be considered mentally healthy. It's obvious that he has some sort of problem, and acting out is just part of his problem. Compassion should be part of everyone's makeup. Name calling is something that should have been left behind on the childhood playground, and even at that aren't we supposed to be teaching our children that it's part of bullying and should never be done at all?
I suppose the bolded answers my question. Is that your opinion, or some sort of established, widely known fact? Sources? Don't countless Americans essentially do just that every day? Are they all assumed to be mentally ill, too?
If I didn't call the person who was described as abusive in the post I initially responded to a potential DB, would it make you feel better?
BED is an established, widely known fact. And I believe that morbid obesity has been recognized as a disease, so yes, it is more than just my opinion.
Basically any morbidly obese person definitely has BED?
I think the argument that someone who has let themselves get to 800+ pounds clearly has something else going on. That just is not normal behavior. Many people reach an established weight based on the number of calories eaten and it becomes maintenance. It is something else entirely to reach 800 pounds.
Interesting. The way I see it, we all have something going on. I just wonder at what point do we ignore all prior transgressions and only see this poor morbidly obese guy who now needs to be pitied and helped. Isn't getting huge what happens when you eat too many calories on a prolonged basis? Isn't ruining your life what happens when you abuse and ignore those that try to guide you in the right direction? At what point does the flip happen when it's no longer something that's your doing / in your control and you're living the consequences of your daily choices and actions? At what stage does one get absolved of accountability and personal responsibility?
At this point we're probably just going around in circles. I suppose I understand the popular opinion that just by being XXX lbs overweight, it automatically means one has one or several mental illnesses. I'm actually doing some light reading on the subject matter - anyone that has any sources or other background on the subject, please feel free to share
Finally, I wonder how many participating in this discussion have actually watched videos of this man
I have. And?
Yes yes Shell, I know you have based on your earlier comments about this abusive man. So that's one. I suspect some of the others hadn't as of the time of posting their comments. I wonder if they experienced how truly vile he was coming across
I watched the video, and it makes no difference in my comments. Whether he has a diagnosis or not, whether he is vile or not, he is still human. It doesn't matter how he comes across to us on TV. He still deserves to be treated like a human being and not called names, or have assumptions made about him.
Assumptions like he definitely has a mental illness, for example?
I suppose my position on the "name calling" that some of you find to be in poor taste is that respect is earned. This person comes across as abusive, extremely disrespectful, i.e. a DB for short. Either that, OR be has a mental illness and his behavior is out of his control. Honestly to me, it's actually disrespectful and dehumanizing to assume he has a mental illness for sure. Hey, you're fat and say things I don't like, can't possibly be in control of your faculties.
The behavior in question here is yours. Name calling, bullying, etc, are absolutely never, ever acceptable. No matter the behavior of another person, or the reason for that behavior, there is no justification for your decision to label anyone with a rude, offensive name. Two wrongs never make a right. I worked in a hospital for years, and I'll tell you this. Sometimes people act out because they have mental problems, and sometimes they act out because they are just miserable people. Regardless of why they act the way that they do, acting rudely back to them never makes you any better. Acting compassionately and empathetically, understanding that they are acting the way they are simply because they are so miserable, can make you a better person, and can actually make you and others feel better.
Don't worry, others feel great around me
So let me get this: someone could be, say, a rapist, and since we don't understand all the details that contributed to their situation we can offer nothing but kindness and respect with regards to their predicament? Poor guy, poor guy, I wonder what went wrong to make him be so awful. I can only imagine what it must be like to offer this kind of unconditional respect and compassion. I can't say such sainthood interests me much. I guess good for you, and you do you, okay? In my world, you reap what you sow, and if you don't want to come across as a DB, you investigate the tools to resolve whatever issues you might have going on and adjust your behavior. No, I don't automatically have compassion for someone who verbally abuses his own father and multiple people unfortunate enough to come across him. And if that makes you a better person than I, I can live with that
You obviously know very, very little about mental illness.
And rape.
This is one of the most offensive posts I've ever read on here.0 -
ColinsMommaOC wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »The sad thing this guy can not live in an SUV for years to come. I was talking to a guy that smokes and one doctor told him if he did not stop smoking that he would stop seeing him. It seems doctors are in their right to withhold service after the patient proves to be noncompliant.
I to not get the going on TV/news media part even if there was $$$ involved.
As someone that works in media, yes there was most likely a cash payout given to the father/son in return for their story. So the guy got paid to badmouth a hospital that kicked him out (rightfully IMO) for violating the terms of his agreement.
To the people that think we should continue to fund this man's (NOT BOY/KID) hospitalization;
Programs like these are generally run on public funding with some supplementation from donations. They ask for applicants to fill the 5-20ish spots in the program that they have available. They get hundreds of applications and only take as many as they can before putting the rest on the wait-list or outright rejecting them. The out of pocket cost for the person applying is generally nothing to very minimal amounts. He was given 3 months to show that he was committed to the program and making an effort. He failed. Why some people would have those hundreds of wait-listed people continue to wait so this self-centered spoiled MAN can continue to cheat and not care about the program is beyond me. Does this man need help? Yes. Should we continue to give him help after he repeatedly showed not only that he did not want the help, but a contempt for the help he was getting? Absolutely not.
First, I am a "Colin's momma" too, spelled the same, which for some reason most people mispronounce all the time and I don't understand it...
Anyway, I totally agree with this. I think about other lifesaving medical interventions and wonder if as many people would be as sensitive to an extreme alcoholic, with no intention to stop, getting a liver transplant, while someone else, making every effort for health, waits on the list.
I recognize the mental health aspect of this condition but it doesn't make them entirely faultless. The same is true of alcoholics as well as many other over consumption/abuse behaviors. I have very close family that are recovered drug addicts and the turning point for them came with taking full responsibility for their actions even while they were out of control and on drugs. In both of their cases, they were forced to get clean, but were provided with counseling opportunities that they took advantage of. I don't know if these hospitals are also providing therapy for the underlying mental illness, but they certainly should be. There should be coaching on how to cope with the inevitable feelings of deprivation and "withdrawal" from their comfort foods. There should be sponsors/mentors assigned that can be called for support when needed. Visits from family and friends should be limited and those people should be expected to have bags checked and should be held responsible if caught bringing in food by being banned from future visits for some time. The patient could be on a continuous glucose monitor so they would know if food was eaten.
The patients should be told, very bluntly, that they are expected to do their part and that it will not be easy and they are not there to be nursed back to health by the team but to get their own health back with the support of the team. I can't imagine people aren't told these things. The person has to WANT IT. That means they have to be willing to go without things they want, probably often, especially at first. They have to be willing to endure whatever pain comes with physical rehabilitation. And they have to understand that regardless of mental/emotional issues, they are responsible for their actions and that is good news because because it means you do have the ability to control your behaviors. It means they can be strong and achieve the health they need. They just have to learn to cope and need to use the resources available for support. And those resources need to be made more easily available. But even online support, like MFP is helpful and can be enough for a lot of people. Like many of us. Isn't that what we are doing here? Looking for support and like minded people that understand our journey that we can learn from or maybe offer something to...
Support is important, but people aren't going to come lay it in our lap. We have to seek it out and participate in it and we have to be ready to get really, really honest with ourselves about what we want and we are willing to do to get it.0 -
I think part of the horror is that people like this man exists. He's embodying a deep-seated fear in all of us. Could we become so ensnared in our own hedonistic desires to eat ourselves to death?
We do have laws to try and protect people from themselves, like traffic signs and tobacco tax. People who bypass these laws sometimes get caught. Some very determined people manage to kill themselves before they smarten up (run through a red light, throat cancer). With traffic accidents however, the results of someone's foolishness is pretty instantaneous. We then are most concerned that the fool did not take out any innocent bystanders in their demise.
Death by obesity however is a slow-moving train wreck. Do we have the fortitude to look away?
What if the father (enabler) has Munchhausen's by proxy?0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »He's also been in the state hospitals in Taunton and Worcester. Taunton was rather old and decrepid, but not bad in terms of how he was treated. Worcester is a beautiful new facility, but, well, too long a story to go into here. Neither were like Bridgewater, which does have a different mission.
I'm so sorry he had to go through whatever he went through.
I knew someone, once, who took too much pleasure in his job of restraining the violent. He was let go, but if know he probably found employment elsewhere. People have to watch for that. That kind of work will draw GOOD people who want to help protect others, but it will also sometimes draw people who want to take advantage of their position.
I hope he's doing well and being well cared for now.
Thanks. Yes, they finally found an anti-psychotic that works for him. He's living at Mom's and doing well. He helps her and she helps him.0
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