800-pound-man-kicked-out-of-hospital-for-ordering-pizza
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That's one of the reasons why people are moving away from saying "mental health" and "mentally ill" and are supposed to speak about degrees of wellness. Criminals used to be separated as "criminally insane" but insane hasn't been used for a long time.vivmom2014 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »NAMI has been a big support to my mother over the years.
NAMI is awesome, and has been a support to my extended family as well.
As far as the offensive comment linking mental illness to rape, I wonder why mental illness does not have a spectrum (like autism.) My sister facilitates NAMI peer-to-peer classes and she said the range of mental illnesses is fairly vast. It would seem beneficial to have a spectrum, so that any grievous "lumping together" of people with brain disorders would be minimized.
Most people with mental illness are not criminals, just as most people without it aren't. Many who commit a crime have done it accidentally and it's rarely one that hurts anyone.
Some people who are locked up are just people who have been or expect to soon be indicted for this or that crime and are trying to set up an insanity defense. There is no mental illness.
Nobody is lumping all people together. Even if someone tried to do that, they couldn't...but I don't think anyone even tried.
I don't believe that JaneiR had any malice in her heart.
Intent is not magic. If you break an arm by accident or malice, an arm is still broken.0 -
vivmom2014 wrote: »vivmom2014 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »NAMI has been a big support to my mother over the years.
NAMI is awesome, and has been a support to my extended family as well.
As far as the offensive comment linking mental illness to rape, I wonder why mental illness does not have a spectrum (like autism.) My sister facilitates NAMI peer-to-peer classes and she said the range of mental illnesses is fairly vast. It would seem beneficial to have a spectrum, so that any grievous "lumping together" of people with brain disorders would be minimized.
I wasn't lumping them together, though. I haven't even agreed to automatically assume that the 800 lb man, or anyone, really, has a mental illness. I wanted to know if there's no threshold for unconditional compassion and respect when someone is behaving or has behaved poorly. At what point to we hold people responsible and accountable for their actions at face value. Is there a limit to this, regardless of one's behavior? I've got some pretty cool answers to that
I guess I would say that compassion and respect are two different things. Mental illness can present with a host of infuriating components - extreme stubbornness, distrust of change, rampant self-centeredness, refusal to cooperate, lack of awareness of being sick. And yet, it is often unbridled terror driving all of these formidable emotions/behaviors.
I think that the young man who is 800 lbs. is awash in fear, despite his bluster and odious personality. He needs a lot of help and, yes, compassion. I admire anyone working the front lines of mental illness (or living with a sick loved one) because it requires nearly super-human patience.
That has been my experience. I have found when working with those suffering from a variety of mental illness and other vulnerable populations that anger/hostility is often fed by fear. I don't know this individual personally, so I wouldn't dare to speak to his motivations or underlying feelings, but I have seen it in my own work that it is commonplace.
At my last job one of my responsibilities was to teach a CBT "Good Thinking" class. We did a lot of emotion tracking and then connecting that emotion to reactions/behaviors that caused negative consequences. When I asked my students to track and define their emotions, I always asked them if the emotion was anger to look and see if there is another emotion behind it. At first the students would almost always say no, but once we started picking it apart, more often than not...another emotion was almost always lurking behind there.
Interesting. I must try this experiment myself!0 -
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vivmom2014 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »NAMI has been a big support to my mother over the years.
NAMI is awesome, and has been a support to my extended family as well.
As far as the offensive comment linking mental illness to rape, I wonder why mental illness does not have a spectrum (like autism.) My sister facilitates NAMI peer-to-peer classes and she said the range of mental illnesses is fairly vast. It would seem beneficial to have a spectrum, so that any grievous "lumping together" of people with brain disorders would be minimized.
I wasn't lumping them together, though. I haven't even agreed to automatically assume that the 800 lb man, or anyone, really, has a mental illness. I wanted to know if there's no threshold for unconditional compassion and respect when someone is behaving or has behaved poorly. At what point to we hold people responsible and accountable for their actions at face value. Is there a limit to this, regardless of one's behavior? I've got some pretty cool answers to that
You can hold someone accountable for his actions and still treat him like a human being with compassion and dignity. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
When my brother's old anti-psychotic stopped working a few years ago, I was compassionate for as long as I could be, but found it impossible after he did something I found unacceptable. Fortunately, the Thorazine has reversed his thinking on that matter, and he is undoing the actions he took. (I'm not going into detail lest it derail the convo.)
On the other hand, my minister is able to give Buddhist meditation classes to incarcerated sex offenders and I can hear the compassion in his voice every time he speaks of this. (This was not meant to equate sex offenders and those who are mentally ill - I was generally addressing the issue of holding someone accountable while having compassion.)
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kshama2001 wrote: »vivmom2014 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »NAMI has been a big support to my mother over the years.
NAMI is awesome, and has been a support to my extended family as well.
As far as the offensive comment linking mental illness to rape, I wonder why mental illness does not have a spectrum (like autism.) My sister facilitates NAMI peer-to-peer classes and she said the range of mental illnesses is fairly vast. It would seem beneficial to have a spectrum, so that any grievous "lumping together" of people with brain disorders would be minimized.
I wasn't lumping them together, though. I haven't even agreed to automatically assume that the 800 lb man, or anyone, really, has a mental illness. I wanted to know if there's no threshold for unconditional compassion and respect when someone is behaving or has behaved poorly. At what point to we hold people responsible and accountable for their actions at face value. Is there a limit to this, regardless of one's behavior? I've got some pretty cool answers to that
You can hold someone accountable for his actions and still treat him like a human being with compassion and dignity. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
When my brother's old anti-psychotic stopped working a few years ago, I was compassionate for as long as I could be, but found it impossible after he did something I found unacceptable. Fortunately, the Thorazine has reversed his thinking on that matter, and he is undoing the actions he took. (I'm not going into detail lest it derail the convo.)
On the other hand, my minister is able to give Buddhist meditation classes to incarcerated sex offenders and I can hear the compassion in his voice every time he speaks of this. (This was not meant to equate sex offenders and those who are mentally ill - I was generally addressing the issue of holding someone accountable while having compassion.)
Your second paragraph defines exactly what I'm talking about here. I don't think there is any lower life form on the planet than a sex offender - especially a sex offender who preys on children. However, I also do not believe that anyone, regardless of his or her crime, deserves to be treated with anything less than human dignity. Hold him or her accountable for the crime, yes. Punish to the fullest extent, yes. But never, ever cross the line to humiliation and degradation.
Remember when American soldiers were photographed degrading nude Iraqi prisoners? Urinating on them, kicking them, and leaving them in their own filth? That sort of thing should never happen - that's what I'm talking about, here.
We're all living creatures, sharing this planet, and we should afford every other living creature dignity and compassion. That's just all there is to it.0 -
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Update: when I was watching the local news this morning, I saw a story that this individual was admitted to another hospital (I don't remember which one, since I was on the elliptical on the time so only half paying attention). He said he has learned from this last experience and hopes the new chance the hospital is giving him will allow him to change his life. It'll be interesting to see how he does and I'll be crossing my fingers for him.
That is a positive update, and I hope that he does well.0 -
vivmom2014 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »NAMI has been a big support to my mother over the years.
NAMI is awesome, and has been a support to my extended family as well.
As far as the offensive comment linking mental illness to rape, I wonder why mental illness does not have a spectrum (like autism.) My sister facilitates NAMI peer-to-peer classes and she said the range of mental illnesses is fairly vast. It would seem beneficial to have a spectrum, so that any grievous "lumping together" of people with brain disorders would be minimized.
I wasn't lumping them together, though. I haven't even agreed to automatically assume that the 800 lb man, or anyone, really, has a mental illness. I wanted to know if there's no threshold for unconditional compassion and respect when someone is behaving or has behaved poorly. At what point to we hold people responsible and accountable for their actions at face value. Is there a limit to this, regardless of one's behavior? I've got some pretty cool answers to that
On the flip-side, is there no threshold for what is acceptable to do to someone that has done something wrong? If there is a threshold above which we, as a society, should not do to someone regardless of the crime, than your answer is yes, there is threshhold for a minimum compassion and respect we give any human being for the sake of being a human being, regardless of past deeds.
Good point. I suppose it's the definitions of those minimums that vary from person to person.
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I know this is a necro thread, but this guy was just featured on my 600lb life. He has more issues going on than just his weight. I feel sorry for his family, especially his dad.
I am glad Dr Now puts stop to his nonsense. I am curious to see part 2, but don't have much hope that he will change. He is too abusive and manipulative.1
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