800-pound-man-kicked-out-of-hospital-for-ordering-pizza
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GaleHawkins wrote: »UltimateEscape wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »UltimateEscape wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »wfsb.com/story/30210822/800-pound-man-kicked-out-of-hospital-for-ordering-pizza
I was obese for years and not that far from it now yet these kinds of stories are hard for me to grasp "why". Does not hitting 400, 500, 600 or even 700 send up a red flag? In that case and most cases there has to be one or more enablers it seems.
Hi father said he'll fall back into old habits of laying in bed and eating. If he can't get up, where does the food come from? His dad? If that's the case, then just bring him a reasonable amount of food and say no the other times, guy's dad.
If the news story I read about him this afternoon is correct, this guy has previously been on reality television with his father. He said that he would throw temper tantrums, loud ones, to get the food that he wanted. His father feared eviction due to the noise, so he would give in.
That's interesting. Here's something else I read:
"His father Steven Veilette said he cannot take his son home because he won't be able to get up the stairs."
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/610627/Obese-man-Steven-Assanti-Rhode-Island-Hospital-America-Gastric-Bypass-Surgery
In my opinion, it seems the only thing that's going to help this man would be if someone had a 100% control over his environment. They'd probably have to frisk the family member's before letting them enter into his personal space. It seems that if we can give millions and millions of dollars for the health and well being of dogs and cats then as a nation we could and should help this man and people like him. Maybe, America should open an addiction clinic's for the morbidly obese to retrain them to learn human nutrition, health and portion control. Also, teach them to integrate into a normal life and teach them how to hold a job and deal with stress and depression. There should also be training for the enablers. I think it's just as much a mental health issue as it food addiction.
This sounds like a re-education camp.
In my case I self re-educated myself but I can see a re-education camp being helpful. The strange part in my case was after not eating grains and sugars for just two weeks the cravings just quickly faded away. The house with full of processed food containing grain and sugars. At work I am 6 inches from snack processed food every time I get a bottle of water.
I was on a road trip and decided to eat some sugar a couple weeks ago since I was reading Wheat Belly Total Health by William Davis MD who thinks sugar is NOT addicting like but that grains can be. My pain did not get much worse and I was able to get around. That proves nothing but I am not in the mood to try eating grains after my IBS has been cured for six months. The sugar did not trigger any digestive track issues.
That's interesting. It seems like there could be some kind of blood tests that could tell a persons make up or what vitamins, minerals and nutrients are deficient. Is there? I don't understand about wheat being a trigger food to illness but many swear by it. I guess because I don't have any health issues (knock on wood) I haven't really thought about it. I'm glad you discovered it and it helps you, that's great!
@UltimateEscape the best I remember Dr. Davis states wheat for example used for food today did not exist until after WWII and in now contains proteins that never was in wheat in the history of people eating wheat.
There are some tests that helps show what vitamins, minerals, etc levels are in our bodies. Vitamin D levels can be tested today is one example. I am not so sure about Vitamin K2 however there are signs you can talk with the doctor about that are mentioned below.
drjohnday.com/9-signs-you-may-have-vitamin-k2-deficiency/
greenbeandelivery.com/healthytimes/foodnutrition/vitamin-k2-for-bone-and-teeth-health/
Thank You so much, I'll be reading those links in the next couple of days!
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Very sad to see such a young man killing himself with food and causing heartache to those that love him, but he signed a contract with the Hospital and he broke it....so they did the right thing IMO.....
There must be many more morbidly obese people who want to be on the programme and in hospital getting help waiting to take his place.
The one's who are ready and willing to take responsibility for their actions and are ready to embrace change deserve their chance too. This guy is NOT ready and by his tone he sounds like a whiny kid who has now faced his 1st real NO in his whole life and he has his back up.
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Why not just let the people who want to fund it, fund it?UltimateEscape wrote: »UltimateEscape wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »wfsb.com/story/30210822/800-pound-man-kicked-out-of-hospital-for-ordering-pizza
I was obese for years and not that far from it now yet these kinds of stories are hard for me to grasp "why". Does not hitting 400, 500, 600 or even 700 send up a red flag? In that case and most cases there has to be one or more enablers it seems.
Hi father said he'll fall back into old habits of laying in bed and eating. If he can't get up, where does the food come from? His dad? If that's the case, then just bring him a reasonable amount of food and say no the other times, guy's dad.
If the news story I read about him this afternoon is correct, this guy has previously been on reality television with his father. He said that he would throw temper tantrums, loud ones, to get the food that he wanted. His father feared eviction due to the noise, so he would give in.
That's interesting. Here's something else I read:
"His father Steven Veilette said he cannot take his son home because he won't be able to get up the stairs."
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/610627/Obese-man-Steven-Assanti-Rhode-Island-Hospital-America-Gastric-Bypass-Surgery
In my opinion, it seems the only thing that's going to help this man would be if someone had a 100% control over his environment. They'd probably have to frisk the family member's before letting them enter into his personal space. It seems that if we can give millions and millions of dollars for the health and well being of dogs and cats then as a nation we could and should help this man and people like him. Maybe, America should open an addiction clinic's for the morbidly obese to retrain them to learn human nutrition, health and portion control. Also, teach them to integrate into a normal life and teach them how to hold a job and deal with stress and depression. There should also be training for the enablers. I think it's just as much a mental health issue as it food addiction.
This sounds like a re-education camp.
They have Summer Fat Camps for kids where they have almost 100% control over them and make them exercise. They also have controlled environment's for people with anorexia. So why not have a controlled environment for the morbidly obese funded by the government?
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This "kid" is 33. Addiction is a mental illness, and it messes with the individual's ability to execute free will. His obesity is just a comorbidity.0
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We need to invent a type of food that looks and tastes the same as real food but is really a trick to help these kinds of people.0
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UltimateEscape wrote: »The CHEAT meal got him into trouble!
"He (Assanti) tells ABC6 he lost over 20 pounds. To reward himself for that small victory, he decided to have a "cheat meal," ordering a pizza from his favorite spot, Tommy's, in Cranston.
http://www.abc6.com/story/30212276/800-pound-man-looking-for-a-second-chance-
No, everyone who diets doesn't do that. Pizza is part of the program for some, but not for all.
If he wants to eat Tommy's pizza, then he should do that, but not waste the time of experts who are trying to help him learn to be a healthier person.
I dislike the way they're trying to make this the hospital's fault.
If it's a voluntary thing, not a locked unit where rules are enforced, then people have to agree to abide by the rules. If not, out they go. Make room for someone who wants to be there and do what they're told is best.
This guy needs to be on a locked psych unit where he gets professional help and where rules are enforced, so he cannot order pizza. His "I'll just drive around until someone helps me" dad obviously cannot help him and his problems are big ones.0 -
This man and family need help. They may not fully see it now but they do. This obese man is still in denial. Maybe he will change or maybe not. It is not up to you or I to decide for him. But as a society we should do everything we can beyond tossing him in the street to rot and die.
It took me twenty years, a quad bypass, damaged knees and my inability to foresee taking care of myself to hopefully decide to do something. This is NOT about food. It is about someone who is ill and he and family need help. Are we that uncaring not to help our fellow people? Is your selfishness so much a part of your lives that you no longer care about anything besides yourself?
I was 260 pounds from his same situation. It is not hard to understand where he is at this time. Hopefully he will change and those around him need to change also. He may be arrogant and unwilling but if you look at our society's selfishness and arrogance he is no different. Just a different problem, morbid obesity caused by some factor not controlled yet.
[Edited by MFP Mods]0 -
If he cannot be helped - and ordering pizza is a clear signal that he is refusing help - then he needs to go and make room for someone else who wants help.
Continuing to keep him there and let him eat pizza is just denying help to someone who wants it.
Personally, I see kicking him out as a good thing, overall. It means someone who wants help can get it.
Short of locking that guy up, he cannot be helped at this time. We lock anorexics up and enforce rules all the time. We do this to save their lives and because we have to believe that if they had the ability to think clearly, they'd choose life and health over insanity and death. The ones who are able to be helped are always overflowing with gratitude...when it's all over. When they're first locked up, different story. Not so happy then, lol. But very happy six months or a year later.
Maybe locking this guy up would help him. I don't know. But voluntary care is obviously not going to help him right now and he needs to get out of the way to let someone else get some help.
I don't see it as cruel, but as doing good for people who WANT help.
[edited by MFP Mods]
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when I was working in one hospital, we had a morbidly obese man (650 lbs.) in the hospital who refused to stop ordering in fast food (his family would bring him in McDonald's, and boxes of doughnuts, and pizzas, etc) and he refused to eat the hospital food. The doctors came in and told him that he would die, guaranteed, within six weeks, if he continued to eat that food. He said that he absolutely would not stop eating the food, even if he would die. He was only in his forties. The doctors asked him if he cared more about the food than about his family, and he said that if he had to give up eating that food to go on living with his family, then living would not be worth it. They told him that in order for him to be allowed to stay in the hospital, he had to sign a DNR, and also that he would be on comfort care (the hospital would provide absolutely no medical care at all to him, other than to make him comfortable, such as pain medication). He willingly signed it, and so was allowed to stay. He continued to eat the food (his family had to bring it to him, and they did). He died about five weeks later.
He wasn't addicted to food. He had developed such an unhealthy relatioship with the food to cover up some other painful experience in his life that he would rather die than give up the food and face that pain - and that's exactly what he did.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »Guy weighs 800 pounds and only loses 20 over the course of 2+ months while in a program specifically designed to help him lose weight? There's no way this was his first transgression. His father is definitely part of the problem.
This.0 -
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Divisive topics and posts, particularly those that seek input from or are relevant only to a select group of users, are better placed within an appropriate Group rather than the Main Forums. For example, topics relevant to only one religion should not be placed on the main forums but rather within a group related to that religion.
Hi guys!
Due to the above guideline, I had to delete a really interesting 'side-bar' discussion out of this thread. Divisive topics (like politics, religion, etc) tend to cause arguments on the forums and should be kept to groups. Rather than close this discussion down, I went on a huge delete spree. In some (a few) cases I was able to edit posts to remove content, but thanks to the multi-quote thing Vanilla does (where ALL the quotes inside of a quoted post come over too), I ended up having to remove some posts that weren't in conflict with the above guideline simply because they had quoted (somewhere along the line) a post that did have to be removed. Nearly 60 posts in this discussion were deleted, so it would have taken forever (no really, forever) to check/find each quote and edit posts... so I only did that with the easy ones (because I have to head to work... should have left already).
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JustSomeEm0 -
UltimateEscape wrote: »The CHEAT meal got him into trouble!
"He (Assanti) tells ABC6 he lost over 20 pounds. To reward himself for that small victory, he decided to have a "cheat meal," ordering a pizza from his favorite spot, Tommy's, in Cranston.
http://www.abc6.com/story/30212276/800-pound-man-looking-for-a-second-chance-
No, everyone who diets doesn't do that. Pizza is part of the program for some, but not for all.
If he wants to eat Tommy's pizza, then he should do that, but not waste the time of experts who are trying to help him learn to be a healthier person.
I dislike the way they're trying to make this the hospital's fault.
If it's a voluntary thing, not a locked unit where rules are enforced, then people have to agree to abide by the rules. If not, out they go. Make room for someone who wants to be there and do what they're told is best.
This guy needs to be on a locked psych unit where he gets professional help and where rules are enforced, so he cannot order pizza. His "I'll just drive around until someone helps me" dad obviously cannot help him and his problems are big ones.
100% this.
The have locked psych wards for other eating disorders (anorexia/bulimia), drug addictions, mental disorders and such. I would say this is a situation where a locked ward would be beneficial, however it should be a voluntary commitment into such ward.0 -
UltimateEscape wrote: »The CHEAT meal got him into trouble!
"He (Assanti) tells ABC6 he lost over 20 pounds. To reward himself for that small victory, he decided to have a "cheat meal," ordering a pizza from his favorite spot, Tommy's, in Cranston.
http://www.abc6.com/story/30212276/800-pound-man-looking-for-a-second-chance-
No, everyone who diets doesn't do that. Pizza is part of the program for some, but not for all.
If he wants to eat Tommy's pizza, then he should do that, but not waste the time of experts who are trying to help him learn to be a healthier person.
I dislike the way they're trying to make this the hospital's fault.
If it's a voluntary thing, not a locked unit where rules are enforced, then people have to agree to abide by the rules. If not, out they go. Make room for someone who wants to be there and do what they're told is best.
This guy needs to be on a locked psych unit where he gets professional help and where rules are enforced, so he cannot order pizza. His "I'll just drive around until someone helps me" dad obviously cannot help him and his problems are big ones.
100% this.
The have locked psych wards for other eating disorders (anorexia/bulimia), drug addictions, mental disorders and such. I would say this is a situation where a locked ward would be beneficial, however it should be a voluntary commitment into such ward.
This was my first reaction as well.
Playing the blame game is unproductive in general, but in this case there's more than enough to go around for everyone to share it. Someone who got to 800 lbs has a serious eating disorder and should have been in a strictly institutionalised environment to monitor intake. I can absolutely distribute some blame to the hospital. He occupied a bed for three months with no useful results and they let him. He ordered food into his room on (probably) a daily basis and the reception staff waved it through. The nursing staff must have seen him eating it because maintaining that much weight would require eating for several hours a day. They also did nothing. Presumably the administrators were happy to collect the insurance company's fee for the bed for 90 days then booted him out when the cheques stopped arriving.
So the insurance company got its premiums, the hospital got its fees and the patient paid out several hundred thousand dollars for less weight loss than a co-ed doing Jenny Craig. He's the big loser but being mentally ill it feels cruel to lay too much culpability on him. He needs the right hospital environment, not a cynical cash-grab clinic, major psych therapy and he needs his enabling family well away from him.0 -
The sad thing this guy can not live in an SUV for years to come. I was talking to a guy that smokes and one doctor told him if he did not stop smoking that he would stop seeing him. It seems doctors are in their right to withhold service after the patient proves to be noncompliant.
I to not get the going on TV/news media part even if there was $$$ involved.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »The sad thing this guy can not live in an SUV for years to come. I was talking to a guy that smokes and one doctor told him if he did not stop smoking that he would stop seeing him. It seems doctors are in their right to withhold service after the patient proves to be noncompliant.
I to not get the going on TV/news media part even if there was $$$ involved.
As someone that works in media, yes there was most likely a cash payout given to the father/son in return for their story. So the guy got paid to badmouth a hospital that kicked him out (rightfully IMO) for violating the terms of his agreement.
To the people that think we should continue to fund this man's (NOT BOY/KID) hospitalization;
Programs like these are generally run on public funding with some supplementation from donations. They ask for applicants to fill the 5-20ish spots in the program that they have available. They get hundreds of applications and only take as many as they can before putting the rest on the wait-list or outright rejecting them. The out of pocket cost for the person applying is generally nothing to very minimal amounts. He was given 3 months to show that he was committed to the program and making an effort. He failed. Why some people would have those hundreds of wait-listed people continue to wait so this self-centered spoiled MAN can continue to cheat and not care about the program is beyond me. Does this man need help? Yes. Should we continue to give him help after he repeatedly showed not only that he did not want the help, but a contempt for the help he was getting? Absolutely not.0 -
As the relative of mentally ill family members, involuntary incarceration is a big deal. One has to prove that the person is not able to make informed decisions about their own health. Even though this man's thinking about food is disordered, is he delusional about the consequences if he continues to eat this way?0
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GaleHawkins wrote: »The sad thing this guy can not live in an SUV for years to come. I was talking to a guy that smokes and one doctor told him if he did not stop smoking that he would stop seeing him. It seems doctors are in their right to withhold service after the patient proves to be noncompliant.
I to not get the going on TV/news media part even if there was $$$ involved.
Yes and no. A primary care doctor and specialists are not required to accept every pt that seeks their services, although it is rather rare. The one exception is emergency care. There is a law called EMTALA (emergency medical treatment and active labor act) which states that a person has the right to receive medical attention and stabilazation for an emergency or if they are in labor.0 -
If he's not delusional, at what point does he become lucidly suicidal?As the relative of mentally ill family members, involuntary incarceration is a big deal. One has to prove that the person is not able to make informed decisions about their own health. Even though this man's thinking about food is disordered, is he delusional about the consequences if he continues to eat this way?
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Lots of people are killing themselves slowly. There's COPD patients still smoking, diabetics with tingling toes letting their sugars run rampant, alcoholics with liver disease, and bankrupt gamblers. I think we can delude ourselves for quite a while that we can still pull out of the death-spiral, after one more hit....compulsions are powerful things.
Here's a man who has habitually rewarded himself with food. He achieved a milestone, and he went straight to the reliable reward.0 -
Unfortunately, mental illness seems to be at the bottom of the list of health/governmental services. My thinking is that obese people are at the bottom of the list, as they could not physically go out and do a mass shooting. I personally don't get why the obese people's families are contributing to this. Someone mentioned the son would scream and disturb the neighbors to coerce his father into getting the food he wanted. Well, let him scream. Let the neighbors call the police. Let the police arrest him. Let the landlord kick them out. BUT STOP BUYING/FEEDING HIM FOOD OVER X NUMBER OF CALORIES! That is, if the father cares about him. Sounds like he doesn't, putting him into one hospital after another. Mental illness should be the top priority of health care these days.0
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As the relative of mentally ill family members, involuntary incarceration is a big deal. One has to prove that the person is not able to make informed decisions about their own health. Even though this man's thinking about food is disordered, is he delusional about the consequences if he continues to eat this way?
Not in Florida. That Baker Act! I have a thunderstorm phobia. It's rather silly, but I won't go near Florida in case a public display of hyperventilating terror causes some concerned stranger to have me taken away in one of those nifty jackets with the tie-tie sleeves.
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Is it a mental illness to be overridden by a compulsion like over-eating? Sure, they are killing themselves. But it's legal and voluntary. Like smoking and drinking.
As for the enabling family, I believe the bedridden is well-practiced in the powers of coercion, and the family members conditioned to respond. An "unhealthy" symbiotic relationship if you will.0 -
atypicalsmith wrote: »Unfortunately, mental illness seems to be at the bottom of the list of health/governmental services. My thinking is that obese people are at the bottom of the list, as they could not physically go out and do a mass shooting. I personally don't get why the obese people's families are contributing to this. Someone mentioned the son would scream and disturb the neighbors to coerce his father into getting the food he wanted. Well, let him scream. Let the neighbors call the police. Let the police arrest him. Let the landlord kick them out. BUT STOP BUYING/FEEDING HIM FOOD OVER X NUMBER OF CALORIES! That is, if the father cares about him. Sounds like he doesn't, putting him into one hospital after another. Mental illness should be the top priority of health care these days.
I would agree with you, but seeing as our top shrinks in the USA helped our government torture people, maybe some of them need help first.0 -
I think jgnatcha is talking about permanent commitment to a state facility, not just a quickie lock-up. If you throw a fit of crazy in McDonald's and they call the cops and the cops see the crazy and cannot stop it, they're going to take you to the hospital, where you'll be locked in a psych unit. Nobody has to go to court.
At least one person got locked up after threatening to kill themselves and others on a board much like this one. They had no idea it could be traced, but the cops showed up at the door and took them to the psych unit (where they really belonged.)
You can be locked up for any number of crazy things. Being permanently committed takes some work. A lot of people have to say, "This person cannot function in society and is a danger to themselves and/or others." But a quickie commitment is nothing and happens like 1000 times a day, every day.0 -
I think jgnatcha is talking about permanent commitment to a state facility, not just a quickie lock-up. If you throw a fit of crazy in McDonald's and they call the cops and the cops see the crazy and cannot stop it, they're going to take you to the hospital, where you'll be locked in a psych unit. Nobody has to go to court.
At least one person got locked up after threatening to kill themselves and others on a board much like this one. They had no idea it could be traced, but the cops showed up at the door and took them to the psych unit (where they really belonged.)
You can be locked up for any number of crazy things. Being permanently committed takes some work. A lot of people have to say, "This person cannot function in society and is a danger to themselves and/or others." But a quickie commitment is nothing and happens like 1000 times a day, every day.
Ah, okay. Still, I imagine even a 'quickie' visit to the psych ward must be terrifying. I don't intend to risk it for anything in the world. Too much to live for out here, with all you other lovely free range crazies.
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Okay, I started to derail this, I should repent and get back on subject:
Let's say they get this guy to check himself in on the condition that he waives his right to come and go freely or to get food from any source besides his dietitian. And then he dies after begging and pleading for food and saying he was starving literally to death. Lawsuit city. I do get that facilities are in a mess when they treat anyone against his or her will.0 -
Being 800 lbs is surely worse than death.0
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People are treated against their will ever day. Like I said, it happens about one thousand times a day, every day. That's not new territory in the world of psychiatric treatment. Even if you enter voluntarily, they can keep you there against your will if they decide they need to do that.Okay, I started to derail this, I should repent and get back on subject:
Let's say they get this guy to check himself in on the condition that he waives his right to come and go freely or to get food from any source besides his dietitian. And then he dies after begging and pleading for food and saying he was starving literally to death. Lawsuit city. I do get that facilities are in a mess when they treat anyone against his or her will.
We lock up anorexics, but they really cannot think clearly because the starving has messed up their brains.
There is lots of talk about making obesity a mental illness, but IMO, it won't go anywhere. Some people have medical issues. Some very high-up lawyers and politicians are fat. They'd fight it, for sure.
I don't know. If we can label those who starve with EDs, can we label those who eat too much? People with BED are already labeled. So, why not the obese?
I don't know. You keep going with that and eventually, everyone who eats pizza is now mentally ill, lol. It is for smarter people than me to decide how to work that out...or whether it even should be worked out.
As far as this guy goes, though, I'd bet there is more going on than just an eating disorder. He needs help with more than his diet.
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