Medical Conditions Which Affect Weight: Separating Fact From Fiction
Replies
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In my early 20s I started to have back problems. It was diagnosed as bulging disks that were pressing on my nerves and causing sciatica and other pain. They bothered me off and on throughout my 20s, where sometimes I was able to exercise and other times I would have to take time off - I referred to it as 'my back went out'.
Then when I was 29, I bent over at the waist one day to feed the cats, and experienced some of the most horrible pain I had felt up to that point. After some imaging, it was discovered that I had torn both of the lower disks in my back . I had to have a 2-level diskectomy and fusion.
It takes a year to recover from that surgery; there's walking on a treadmill involved, but it's a slow pace and certainly no cardio level activity. My life was quite different after the surgery. I found myself the heaviest I'd ever been in my life, other than when I was pregnant. I wasn't obese, but for me, it was a challenge I hadn't had to face before.
I didn't know how to lose the weight the right way. I tried lot of things. I went low carb. I cut out all sugar. I tried eating six small meals per day. Nothing worked. I literally spent years unhappy at that weight. I was suffering through rehab with my back and also dealing with this new weight challenge, and it was a real struggle.
Finally, I found MFP. I started posting in the forums, and I posted my 'woo'. All the things I thought I knew. Which, looking back, was rather foolish, considering that I'd already tried all of them and failed.
I found myself soundly corrected. I argued at first, but then I started to listen. I realized that what I was being told made a lot of sense. Once I listened, I learned, and I started applying what I was learning. I followed the ideas of CICO and moderation. By now i was able to exercise again. I started losing weight. It was a pretty wonderful feeling.
Then I had another setback. The disk above the fusion was bulging out so far it was pushing on another nerve and sending pain throughout my back and left leg. I had to have surgery again.
This time, I used all that I had learned on MFP and kept the weight off. I made it through rehab and when I was able to exercise again, I started another deficit to try to reach another goal weight.
I succeeded! What a great feeling .
Then another setback came along. I was diagnosed with brain cancer. Another surgery, more rehab. and another stretch of dropping my calorie goal to maintain my weight. Still succeeding!
A year after rehab, I was diagnosed with Celiac disease. This made a huge difference in my eating pattern because I had to completely change my diet. However, it was a great change because it sure made a difference in how great I felt, since I had been experiencing so much discomfort most of the time and not knowing why.
Now my back is deteriorating yet again, and I find myself sedentary and unable to move much. Time to adjust the calorie goal. I am confident that I will maintain my weight because I understand CICO, and will be forever grateful to those who taught me when I first showed up here on MFP.
The point I'm trying to make here is that we all experience challenges in life. It's probably actually not typical that a person is perfectly healthy with no challenges to face. CICO works. Calorie deficit works. Even if we have challenges, we can be successful. As long as we make adjustments to the calorie goal dependent on our activity level, we can do it!0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
I have explained how excretion is outside of CICO, both in how I have seen it used in other threads and how it is used here. I'm sorry you are unable to understand.PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you time and time again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
Yet I've proven that it is not absolute. There is at least one medical condition that I've personally experienced which causes weight change outside of CICO.
Since the whole point of this thread is to "separate fact from fiction" regarding "medical conditions which affect weight," a medical condition that causes weight change outside of CICO is right on topic.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
I have explained how excretion is outside of CICO, both in how I have seen it used in other threads and how it is used here. I'm sorry you are unable to understand.PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you time and time again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
Yet I've proven that it is not absolute. There is at least one medical condition that I've personally experienced which causes weight change outside of CICO.
Since the whole point of this thread is to "separate fact from fiction" regarding "medical conditions which affect weight," a medical condition that causes weight change outside of CICO is right on topic.
Your intentional misunderstanding does not change the laws of physics. You willfully ignore fact just so you can continue to argue.
Quite simply, everyone except you in this thread has demonstrated the ability to separate fact from fiction.0 -
The only thing you have proven is an inability to understand and a belief in a flawed premise beyond reason and beyond scientific proof
But that's your choice. I hope if helps you in some way,0 -
In my early 20s I started to have back problems. It was diagnosed as bulging disks that were pressing on my nerves and causing sciatica and other pain. They bothered me off and on throughout my 20s, where sometimes I was able to exercise and other times I would have to take time off - I referred to it as 'my back went out'.
Then when I was 29, I bent over at the waist one day to feed the cats, and experienced some of the most horrible pain I had felt up to that point. After some imaging, it was discovered that I had torn both of the lower disks in my back . I had to have a 2-level diskectomy and fusion.
It takes a year to recover from that surgery; there's walking on a treadmill involved, but it's a slow pace and certainly no cardio level activity. My life was quite different after the surgery. I found myself the heaviest I'd ever been in my life, other than when I was pregnant. I wasn't obese, but for me, it was a challenge I hadn't had to face before.
I didn't know how to lose the weight the right way. I tried lot of things. I went low carb. I cut out all sugar. I tried eating six small meals per day. Nothing worked. I literally spent years unhappy at that weight. I was suffering through rehab with my back and also dealing with this new weight challenge, and it was a real struggle.
Finally, I found MFP. I started posting in the forums, and I posted my 'woo'. All the things I thought I knew. Which, looking back, was rather foolish, considering that I'd already tried all of them and failed.
I found myself soundly corrected. I argued at first, but then I started to listen. I realized that what I was being told made a lot of sense. Once I listened, I learned, and I started applying what I was learning. I followed the ideas of CICO and moderation. By now i was able to exercise again. I started losing weight. It was a pretty wonderful feeling.
Then I had another setback. The disk above the fusion was bulging out so far it was pushing on another nerve and sending pain throughout my back and left leg. I had to have surgery again.
This time, I used all that I had learned on MFP and kept the weight off. I made it through rehab and when I was able to exercise again, I started another deficit to try to reach another goal weight.
I succeeded! What a great feeling .
Then another setback came along. I was diagnosed with brain cancer. Another surgery, more rehab. and another stretch of dropping my calorie goal to maintain my weight. Still succeeding!
A year after rehab, I was diagnosed with Celiac disease. This made a huge difference in my eating pattern because I had to completely change my diet. However, it was a great change because it sure made a difference in how great I felt, since I had been experiencing so much discomfort most of the time and not knowing why.
Now my back is deteriorating yet again, and I find myself sedentary and unable to move much. Time to adjust the calorie goal. I am confident that I will maintain my weight because I understand CICO, and will be forever grateful to those who taught me when I first showed up here on MFP.
The point I'm trying to make here is that we all experience challenges in life. It's probably actually not typical that a person is perfectly healthy with no challenges to face. CICO works. Calorie deficit works. Even if we have challenges, we can be successful. As long as we make adjustments to the calorie goal dependent on our activity level, we can do it!
Cindy, I just want to say that you are amazing and inspirational!0 -
In my early 20s I started to have back problems. It was diagnosed as bulging disks that were pressing on my nerves and causing sciatica and other pain. They bothered me off and on throughout my 20s, where sometimes I was able to exercise and other times I would have to take time off - I referred to it as 'my back went out'.
Then when I was 29, I bent over at the waist one day to feed the cats, and experienced some of the most horrible pain I had felt up to that point. After some imaging, it was discovered that I had torn both of the lower disks in my back . I had to have a 2-level diskectomy and fusion.
It takes a year to recover from that surgery; there's walking on a treadmill involved, but it's a slow pace and certainly no cardio level activity. My life was quite different after the surgery. I found myself the heaviest I'd ever been in my life, other than when I was pregnant. I wasn't obese, but for me, it was a challenge I hadn't had to face before.
I didn't know how to lose the weight the right way. I tried lot of things. I went low carb. I cut out all sugar. I tried eating six small meals per day. Nothing worked. I literally spent years unhappy at that weight. I was suffering through rehab with my back and also dealing with this new weight challenge, and it was a real struggle.
Finally, I found MFP. I started posting in the forums, and I posted my 'woo'. All the things I thought I knew. Which, looking back, was rather foolish, considering that I'd already tried all of them and failed.
I found myself soundly corrected. I argued at first, but then I started to listen. I realized that what I was being told made a lot of sense. Once I listened, I learned, and I started applying what I was learning. I followed the ideas of CICO and moderation. By now i was able to exercise again. I started losing weight. It was a pretty wonderful feeling.
Then I had another setback. The disk above the fusion was bulging out so far it was pushing on another nerve and sending pain throughout my back and left leg. I had to have surgery again.
This time, I used all that I had learned on MFP and kept the weight off. I made it through rehab and when I was able to exercise again, I started another deficit to try to reach another goal weight.
I succeeded! What a great feeling .
Then another setback came along. I was diagnosed with brain cancer. Another surgery, more rehab. and another stretch of dropping my calorie goal to maintain my weight. Still succeeding!
A year after rehab, I was diagnosed with Celiac disease. This made a huge difference in my eating pattern because I had to completely change my diet. However, it was a great change because it sure made a difference in how great I felt, since I had been experiencing so much discomfort most of the time and not knowing why.
Now my back is deteriorating yet again, and I find myself sedentary and unable to move much. Time to adjust the calorie goal. I am confident that I will maintain my weight because I understand CICO, and will be forever grateful to those who taught me when I first showed up here on MFP.
The point I'm trying to make here is that we all experience challenges in life. It's probably actually not typical that a person is perfectly healthy with no challenges to face. CICO works. Calorie deficit works. Even if we have challenges, we can be successful. As long as we make adjustments to the calorie goal dependent on our activity level, we can do it!
You are a brave and inspirational person
I am proud to call you a friend0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
I have explained how excretion is outside of CICO, both in how I have seen it used in other threads and how it is used here. I'm sorry you are unable to understand.PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you time and time again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
Yet I've proven that it is not absolute. There is at least one medical condition that I've personally experienced which causes weight change outside of CICO.
Since the whole point of this thread is to "separate fact from fiction" regarding "medical conditions which affect weight," a medical condition that causes weight change outside of CICO is right on topic.
Your intentional misunderstanding does not change the laws of physics. You willfully ignore fact just so you can continue to argue.
Quite simply, everyone except you in this thread has demonstrated the ability to separate fact from fiction.
This. I really really wish the derailment of multiple threads by this ridiculousness would be stopped.0 -
Thank you, @blankiefinder and @rabbitjb ! I am proud to have you both as friends and you both inspire me as well.
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Thank you, @blankiefinder and @rabbitjb ! I am proud to have you both as friends and you both inspire me as well.
Now that was freaky of blankiefinder cos it wasn't there when I posted
I ain't no copycat
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blankiefinder wrote: »In my early 20s I started to have back problems. It was diagnosed as bulging disks that were pressing on my nerves and causing sciatica and other pain. They bothered me off and on throughout my 20s, where sometimes I was able to exercise and other times I would have to take time off - I referred to it as 'my back went out'.
Then when I was 29, I bent over at the waist one day to feed the cats, and experienced some of the most horrible pain I had felt up to that point. After some imaging, it was discovered that I had torn both of the lower disks in my back . I had to have a 2-level diskectomy and fusion.
It takes a year to recover from that surgery; there's walking on a treadmill involved, but it's a slow pace and certainly no cardio level activity. My life was quite different after the surgery. I found myself the heaviest I'd ever been in my life, other than when I was pregnant. I wasn't obese, but for me, it was a challenge I hadn't had to face before.
I didn't know how to lose the weight the right way. I tried lot of things. I went low carb. I cut out all sugar. I tried eating six small meals per day. Nothing worked. I literally spent years unhappy at that weight. I was suffering through rehab with my back and also dealing with this new weight challenge, and it was a real struggle.
Finally, I found MFP. I started posting in the forums, and I posted my 'woo'. All the things I thought I knew. Which, looking back, was rather foolish, considering that I'd already tried all of them and failed.
I found myself soundly corrected. I argued at first, but then I started to listen. I realized that what I was being told made a lot of sense. Once I listened, I learned, and I started applying what I was learning. I followed the ideas of CICO and moderation. By now i was able to exercise again. I started losing weight. It was a pretty wonderful feeling.
Then I had another setback. The disk above the fusion was bulging out so far it was pushing on another nerve and sending pain throughout my back and left leg. I had to have surgery again.
This time, I used all that I had learned on MFP and kept the weight off. I made it through rehab and when I was able to exercise again, I started another deficit to try to reach another goal weight.
I succeeded! What a great feeling .
Then another setback came along. I was diagnosed with brain cancer. Another surgery, more rehab. and another stretch of dropping my calorie goal to maintain my weight. Still succeeding!
A year after rehab, I was diagnosed with Celiac disease. This made a huge difference in my eating pattern because I had to completely change my diet. However, it was a great change because it sure made a difference in how great I felt, since I had been experiencing so much discomfort most of the time and not knowing why.
Now my back is deteriorating yet again, and I find myself sedentary and unable to move much. Time to adjust the calorie goal. I am confident that I will maintain my weight because I understand CICO, and will be forever grateful to those who taught me when I first showed up here on MFP.
The point I'm trying to make here is that we all experience challenges in life. It's probably actually not typical that a person is perfectly healthy with no challenges to face. CICO works. Calorie deficit works. Even if we have challenges, we can be successful. As long as we make adjustments to the calorie goal dependent on our activity level, we can do it!
Cindy, I just want to say that you are amazing and inspirational!
She truly is one incredible lady!0 -
blankiefinder wrote: »In my early 20s I started to have back problems. It was diagnosed as bulging disks that were pressing on my nerves and causing sciatica and other pain. They bothered me off and on throughout my 20s, where sometimes I was able to exercise and other times I would have to take time off - I referred to it as 'my back went out'.
Then when I was 29, I bent over at the waist one day to feed the cats, and experienced some of the most horrible pain I had felt up to that point. After some imaging, it was discovered that I had torn both of the lower disks in my back . I had to have a 2-level diskectomy and fusion.
It takes a year to recover from that surgery; there's walking on a treadmill involved, but it's a slow pace and certainly no cardio level activity. My life was quite different after the surgery. I found myself the heaviest I'd ever been in my life, other than when I was pregnant. I wasn't obese, but for me, it was a challenge I hadn't had to face before.
I didn't know how to lose the weight the right way. I tried lot of things. I went low carb. I cut out all sugar. I tried eating six small meals per day. Nothing worked. I literally spent years unhappy at that weight. I was suffering through rehab with my back and also dealing with this new weight challenge, and it was a real struggle.
Finally, I found MFP. I started posting in the forums, and I posted my 'woo'. All the things I thought I knew. Which, looking back, was rather foolish, considering that I'd already tried all of them and failed.
I found myself soundly corrected. I argued at first, but then I started to listen. I realized that what I was being told made a lot of sense. Once I listened, I learned, and I started applying what I was learning. I followed the ideas of CICO and moderation. By now i was able to exercise again. I started losing weight. It was a pretty wonderful feeling.
Then I had another setback. The disk above the fusion was bulging out so far it was pushing on another nerve and sending pain throughout my back and left leg. I had to have surgery again.
This time, I used all that I had learned on MFP and kept the weight off. I made it through rehab and when I was able to exercise again, I started another deficit to try to reach another goal weight.
I succeeded! What a great feeling .
Then another setback came along. I was diagnosed with brain cancer. Another surgery, more rehab. and another stretch of dropping my calorie goal to maintain my weight. Still succeeding!
A year after rehab, I was diagnosed with Celiac disease. This made a huge difference in my eating pattern because I had to completely change my diet. However, it was a great change because it sure made a difference in how great I felt, since I had been experiencing so much discomfort most of the time and not knowing why.
Now my back is deteriorating yet again, and I find myself sedentary and unable to move much. Time to adjust the calorie goal. I am confident that I will maintain my weight because I understand CICO, and will be forever grateful to those who taught me when I first showed up here on MFP.
The point I'm trying to make here is that we all experience challenges in life. It's probably actually not typical that a person is perfectly healthy with no challenges to face. CICO works. Calorie deficit works. Even if we have challenges, we can be successful. As long as we make adjustments to the calorie goal dependent on our activity level, we can do it!
Cindy, I just want to say that you are amazing and inspirational!
I concur!0 -
I just wanted to thank those of you that have shared, you are all truly inspiring.
I wanted to share my health issues too, but although I will talk about it in part talking about all of it is overwhelming to me. I don't know if it's because it's ongoing with no cure or reprieve, or because things change and new problems appear (it all stems from Transverse Myelitis), but I can only cope with it by dealing with one issue at a time.
Having said that, my life changed radically 7 years ago and the weight piled on. I couldn't eat nutritious meals as I wasn't able to prepare or cook them, and I've lost my hunger and satiety signals due to nerve damage. Last year, I got more support with other practical things so now I can use what energy I have to eat properly, and I eat by the clock rather than waiting for signals that aren't going to come. I've always known that CICO works (we used to just call it calorie counting though), but now I've had to learn that my calorie expenditure isn't what it was and adjust accordingly. I've tried to do some exercises with resistance bands, but it's not sustainable for me because it causes too much pain and fatigue. I'm not giving up though, and the weight is coming off just from eating in a deficit. 1st 13lb (27lb) so far, one more pound until I have to fulfil my promise to myself to give up smoking!0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »daniwilford wrote: »oyChihuahua wrote: »I had a heart valve fail. Latent birth defect, actually, my aortic valve was half normal size and refused to open much. I was never especially athletic even as a kid. I never knew; it was Ohio in the 60's and if you were the un-athletic kid you just studied a lot instead and got teased a lot. But, being deformed, the valve's function began to diminish when I was in my 40s. I stopped jogging. Seemed to hurt too much. I lost interest. Increasingly, I passed on visiting the gym. My top speed on the treadmill declined. After awhile I stopped going - getting up the stairs was painful. Slowly over a 5 year period I became sedentary. Work went well and I spent more time at my desk. I became a manager. Longer hours and more time sitting at my desk. I just thought I was getting old. (I've never grown old before, so I didn't think much of it). Not watching calories, I didn't reign in my food intake. So I became obese, the natural result of CICO.
Anyway, a job change led to a decision to get back to exercising, which led to chest pain, which led to examination, then to discovery, and finally to surgical repair. After surgery, I entered cardiac re-hab. I was amazed at the difference adequate blood flow made to my exercise tolerance. I even started to enjoy exercise!! The cold creepy ache that I always experienced when active was gone. In its place this warm glow-ey feeling! Startling! I began to push the nursing staff and ultimately my doctors for an increase in maximum allowed heart rate. One day, noticing the nurse appeared busy - they're always understaffed in that profession! - I set the treadmill for jog and let loose. You never saw a staff member run to take a blood pressure that fast!
Anyway, she forgave me. I continued to push and to improve markedly. She also recommended a calorie counting using a food journal. Being a geek, I found MFP and set about using that. That was three years and about 60+ lbs. ago. Two years ago I transitioned back to my old gym and hired a personal trainer. Found one familiar with heart patients but was still willing to push. I always pushed myself a little harder than he asked. A few more repetitions, a little more weight, always take the optional exercise.
After 6 months I joined a boot camp style class with TRX and other torture implements. Really kicked my rear end. The look of shock when I returned for the next class. I would learn later that the class was popular with trainers and as a way to get their exercise - I had walked blindly into the "top gun" set of fitness at the gym. Doh! But I kept at it and the months passed. I grew smaller, lumpier and harder. Still counting calories. Down an additional 20 lbs. But best of all for me, I grew stronger.
I took up lifting too. Started with Stronglifts 5x5. Moved to Madcow 5x5 when the weights became too heavy for me to add additional weight each workout. Two weeks ago, I squat-lifted my body weight. I can deadlift 1.25x my bodyweight. Not bad for the kid who was always teased in school for being weak, slow and overweight.
I petitioned the FAA to renew my aeromedical certificate. I submitted a bunch of test results showing every last detail of my body's function measured out to a couple digits past the decimal point. Last January, I was restored to full flying status, subject to undergoing the same bunch of tests every year, of course.
So if there's a moral to my story, other than control your exercise and your intake, I guess "Never Give up" would be a good moral.
Amazing, inspiring story! Thanks for sharing. I am just starting with the TRX, I played around with it earlier, but it is part of my routine now.
I concur, amazing story of perseverance. My trainer is a big fan of TRX, we've introduced one-legged moves into my routines lately. They are killer for working stabilizing muscles, and very hard for a klutz like me.
Oh man, I agree too. So darned inspiring!0 -
Eleven pages in two days. Hmmm.
My problem with CICO is some (not all posting on these boards) equate all calories as equal. To a certain level, even MFP does this. For some of us, to keep our medical conditions controlled, it doesn't quite work that way. I was diagnosed as Type II diabetic about 3 years or so ago. As a result, I have found that ONLY when I manage my carbs can I lose weight, as well as manage my BS. I include fat and protein in my calorie counts, of course, but I'd rather eat fat than carbs. {I'm also on Metformin, but that's all for THAT medical problem.} Actually, I would recommend anyone told they are pre-diabetic or have metabolic syndrome, or are 'apple shaped' to try this. But that may be a different conversation.
In addition to allergies, asthma, sleep apnea, no thyroid (probably Hashimoto's), I recently was diagnosed with cancer. After surgery, I just spent a month of chemoradiation, with two major side effects: major fatigue and diarrhea [major yuck]! Without trying to, I lost 12 pounds in less than a month - not healthy: first week was almost 6 lbs. Doctors were not happy. I wasn't happy - The recommended control, the BRAT diet, is not healthy, especially for diabetics like me.
I have just finished that round. Currently, I have switched temporarily to maintenance and am slowly adding fiber and healthy carbs back into my diet. And dropping the simple white ones.
As for the fatigue, this can be quite severe. It's more than a little effort to exercise. I sometimes felt it a major achievement that I got out of bed and dressed every day. I didn't do a lot some days, but scheduled what I could during my good part of the day and a daily nap or quiet time in the afternoon. Exercise might be, at most, going up and down stairs to do the weekly laundry.
Controlling your medical problems is not all that easy. It is more often a work in progress.0 -
In my early 20s I started to have back problems. It was diagnosed as bulging disks that were pressing on my nerves and causing sciatica and other pain. They bothered me off and on throughout my 20s, where sometimes I was able to exercise and other times I would have to take time off - I referred to it as 'my back went out'.
Then when I was 29, I bent over at the waist one day to feed the cats, and experienced some of the most horrible pain I had felt up to that point. After some imaging, it was discovered that I had torn both of the lower disks in my back . I had to have a 2-level diskectomy and fusion.
It takes a year to recover from that surgery; there's walking on a treadmill involved, but it's a slow pace and certainly no cardio level activity. My life was quite different after the surgery. I found myself the heaviest I'd ever been in my life, other than when I was pregnant. I wasn't obese, but for me, it was a challenge I hadn't had to face before.
I didn't know how to lose the weight the right way. I tried lot of things. I went low carb. I cut out all sugar. I tried eating six small meals per day. Nothing worked. I literally spent years unhappy at that weight. I was suffering through rehab with my back and also dealing with this new weight challenge, and it was a real struggle.
Finally, I found MFP. I started posting in the forums, and I posted my 'woo'. All the things I thought I knew. Which, looking back, was rather foolish, considering that I'd already tried all of them and failed.
I found myself soundly corrected. I argued at first, but then I started to listen. I realized that what I was being told made a lot of sense. Once I listened, I learned, and I started applying what I was learning. I followed the ideas of CICO and moderation. By now i was able to exercise again. I started losing weight. It was a pretty wonderful feeling.
Then I had another setback. The disk above the fusion was bulging out so far it was pushing on another nerve and sending pain throughout my back and left leg. I had to have surgery again.
This time, I used all that I had learned on MFP and kept the weight off. I made it through rehab and when I was able to exercise again, I started another deficit to try to reach another goal weight.
I succeeded! What a great feeling .
Then another setback came along. I was diagnosed with brain cancer. Another surgery, more rehab. and another stretch of dropping my calorie goal to maintain my weight. Still succeeding!
A year after rehab, I was diagnosed with Celiac disease. This made a huge difference in my eating pattern because I had to completely change my diet. However, it was a great change because it sure made a difference in how great I felt, since I had been experiencing so much discomfort most of the time and not knowing why.
Now my back is deteriorating yet again, and I find myself sedentary and unable to move much. Time to adjust the calorie goal. I am confident that I will maintain my weight because I understand CICO, and will be forever grateful to those who taught me when I first showed up here on MFP.
The point I'm trying to make here is that we all experience challenges in life. It's probably actually not typical that a person is perfectly healthy with no challenges to face. CICO works. Calorie deficit works. Even if we have challenges, we can be successful. As long as we make adjustments to the calorie goal dependent on our activity level, we can do it!
You're incredible, friend.0 -
CurlyCockney wrote: »I just wanted to thank those of you that have shared, you are all truly inspiring.
I wanted to share my health issues too, but although I will talk about it in part talking about all of it is overwhelming to me. I don't know if it's because it's ongoing with no cure or reprieve, or because things change and new problems appear (it all stems from Transverse Myelitis), but I can only cope with it by dealing with one issue at a time.
Having said that, my life changed radically 7 years ago and the weight piled on. I couldn't eat nutritious meals as I wasn't able to prepare or cook them, and I've lost my hunger and satiety signals due to nerve damage. Last year, I got more support with other practical things so now I can use what energy I have to eat properly, and I eat by the clock rather than waiting for signals that aren't going to come. I've always known that CICO works (we used to just call it calorie counting though), but now I've had to learn that my calorie expenditure isn't what it was and adjust accordingly. I've tried to do some exercises with resistance bands, but it's not sustainable for me because it causes too much pain and fatigue. I'm not giving up though, and the weight is coming off just from eating in a deficit. 1st 13lb (27lb) so far, one more pound until I have to fulfil my promise to myself to give up smoking!
You've got this. I'm sorry it's so much harder for you..I hope you're getting health gains from your amazing progress. And hell yes give up the *kitten*0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
I have explained how excretion is outside of CICO, both in how I have seen it used in other threads and how it is used here. I'm sorry you are unable to understand.PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you time and time again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
Yet I've proven that it is not absolute. There is at least one medical condition that I've personally experienced which causes weight change outside of CICO.
Since the whole point of this thread is to "separate fact from fiction" regarding "medical conditions which affect weight," a medical condition that causes weight change outside of CICO is right on topic.
Your intentional misunderstanding does not change the laws of physics. You willfully ignore fact just so you can continue to argue.
Quite simply, everyone except you in this thread has demonstrated the ability to separate fact from fiction.
This. I really really wish the derailment of multiple threads by this ridiculousness would be stopped.
I concur. I've explained in detail and yet other users continue to derail by just arguing that my training and hard-lived experience didn't happen. In a thread where medical conditions that affect weight is the topic, one should reasonably expect that responding users would be interected in discussing medical issues that affect weight.0 -
Well that's culturally insensitive :bigsmile:0
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midwesterner85 wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
I have explained how excretion is outside of CICO, both in how I have seen it used in other threads and how it is used here. I'm sorry you are unable to understand.PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you time and time again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
Yet I've proven that it is not absolute. There is at least one medical condition that I've personally experienced which causes weight change outside of CICO.
Since the whole point of this thread is to "separate fact from fiction" regarding "medical conditions which affect weight," a medical condition that causes weight change outside of CICO is right on topic.
Your intentional misunderstanding does not change the laws of physics. You willfully ignore fact just so you can continue to argue.
Quite simply, everyone except you in this thread has demonstrated the ability to separate fact from fiction.
This. I really really wish the derailment of multiple threads by this ridiculousness would be stopped.
I concur. I've explained in detail and yet other users continue to derail by just arguing that my training and hard-lived experience didn't happen. In a thread where medical conditions that affect weight is the topic, one should reasonably expect that responding users would be interected in discussing medical issues that affect weight.
You are clearly projecting onto others. Your explanations, in detail, demonstrate how wrong you are. The fact that you keep derailing thread after thread with your misunderstood accounts is just sad.
The fact you just argued against something you claimed to concur with is astounding ... but as logically sound as the rest of your posts.0 -
blankiefinder wrote: »In my early 20s I started to have back problems. It was diagnosed as bulging disks that were pressing on my nerves and causing sciatica and other pain. They bothered me off and on throughout my 20s, where sometimes I was able to exercise and other times I would have to take time off - I referred to it as 'my back went out'.
Then when I was 29, I bent over at the waist one day to feed the cats, and experienced some of the most horrible pain I had felt up to that point. After some imaging, it was discovered that I had torn both of the lower disks in my back . I had to have a 2-level diskectomy and fusion.
It takes a year to recover from that surgery; there's walking on a treadmill involved, but it's a slow pace and certainly no cardio level activity. My life was quite different after the surgery. I found myself the heaviest I'd ever been in my life, other than when I was pregnant. I wasn't obese, but for me, it was a challenge I hadn't had to face before.
I didn't know how to lose the weight the right way. I tried lot of things. I went low carb. I cut out all sugar. I tried eating six small meals per day. Nothing worked. I literally spent years unhappy at that weight. I was suffering through rehab with my back and also dealing with this new weight challenge, and it was a real struggle.
Finally, I found MFP. I started posting in the forums, and I posted my 'woo'. All the things I thought I knew. Which, looking back, was rather foolish, considering that I'd already tried all of them and failed.
I found myself soundly corrected. I argued at first, but then I started to listen. I realized that what I was being told made a lot of sense. Once I listened, I learned, and I started applying what I was learning. I followed the ideas of CICO and moderation. By now i was able to exercise again. I started losing weight. It was a pretty wonderful feeling.
Then I had another setback. The disk above the fusion was bulging out so far it was pushing on another nerve and sending pain throughout my back and left leg. I had to have surgery again.
This time, I used all that I had learned on MFP and kept the weight off. I made it through rehab and when I was able to exercise again, I started another deficit to try to reach another goal weight.
I succeeded! What a great feeling .
Then another setback came along. I was diagnosed with brain cancer. Another surgery, more rehab. and another stretch of dropping my calorie goal to maintain my weight. Still succeeding!
A year after rehab, I was diagnosed with Celiac disease. This made a huge difference in my eating pattern because I had to completely change my diet. However, it was a great change because it sure made a difference in how great I felt, since I had been experiencing so much discomfort most of the time and not knowing why.
Now my back is deteriorating yet again, and I find myself sedentary and unable to move much. Time to adjust the calorie goal. I am confident that I will maintain my weight because I understand CICO, and will be forever grateful to those who taught me when I first showed up here on MFP.
The point I'm trying to make here is that we all experience challenges in life. It's probably actually not typical that a person is perfectly healthy with no challenges to face. CICO works. Calorie deficit works. Even if we have challenges, we can be successful. As long as we make adjustments to the calorie goal dependent on our activity level, we can do it!
Cindy, I just want to say that you are amazing and inspirational!
I echo this sentiment. Cindy, what you deal with on a daily basis is truly humbling.0 -
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midwesterner85 wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
I have explained how excretion is outside of CICO, both in how I have seen it used in other threads and how it is used here. I'm sorry you are unable to understand.PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you time and time again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
Yet I've proven that it is not absolute. There is at least one medical condition that I've personally experienced which causes weight change outside of CICO.
Since the whole point of this thread is to "separate fact from fiction" regarding "medical conditions which affect weight," a medical condition that causes weight change outside of CICO is right on topic.
Your intentional misunderstanding does not change the laws of physics. You willfully ignore fact just so you can continue to argue.
Quite simply, everyone except you in this thread has demonstrated the ability to separate fact from fiction.
This. I really really wish the derailment of multiple threads by this ridiculousness would be stopped.
I concur. I've explained in detail and yet other users continue to derail by just arguing that my training and hard-lived experience didn't happen. In a thread where medical conditions that affect weight is the topic, one should reasonably expect that responding users would be interected in discussing medical issues that affect weight.
No, you continue to derail by insisting you're right instead of taking information on board.
Just stop.
I have an analogy for you. Since you feel you have greater knowledge, see if you can get my point.
I used to go to school with a really bright girl who misused really large words all the time. Everyone liked her and knew what she really meant anyway, so no one corrected her. There were some people who didn't know the real meaning of those words and started thinking they meant what she was misusing them as from context clues. In other words, they got the wrong picture.
The thing is, the original meaning of those words didn't change simply because she misused them. As for the people who got the wrong picture? Draw your own conclusion about the point I'm making.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
I have explained how excretion is outside of CICO, both in how I have seen it used in other threads and how it is used here. I'm sorry you are unable to understand.PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you time and time again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
Yet I've proven that it is not absolute. There is at least one medical condition that I've personally experienced which causes weight change outside of CICO.
Since the whole point of this thread is to "separate fact from fiction" regarding "medical conditions which affect weight," a medical condition that causes weight change outside of CICO is right on topic.
Your intentional misunderstanding does not change the laws of physics. You willfully ignore fact just so you can continue to argue.
Quite simply, everyone except you in this thread has demonstrated the ability to separate fact from fiction.
This. I really really wish the derailment of multiple threads by this ridiculousness would be stopped.
I concur. I've explained in detail and yet other users continue to derail by just arguing that my training and hard-lived experience didn't happen. In a thread where medical conditions that affect weight is the topic, one should reasonably expect that responding users would be interected in discussing medical issues that affect weight.
It appears to me that your medical issue has been discussed at great length( 11 of 11 pages). In preschool terms you have had your turn.
eta: I drastically underestimated page #0 -
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midwesterner85 wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
I have explained how excretion is outside of CICO, both in how I have seen it used in other threads and how it is used here. I'm sorry you are unable to understand.PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
No, it's not. That's your assumption. I have repeated and keep repeating and many other posters will keep telling yo that all these other things that rankinsect mentioned are included in it.
I wish I could click a like button, rankinsenct was spot on.
I hardly think you are better than me to say what is in "most posts I've seen." Nonetheless, excretion is in addition to what most others in this thread have mentioned. So there is still that flaw.
The flaw is in your perception, not what CICO actually is in a scientific sense. You keep wanting to parse the phrase to make yourself right, and in so doing are derailing this thread.
With all due respect? Please stop.
It has been explained to you time and time again that the real science of CICO is absolute.
Yet I've proven that it is not absolute. There is at least one medical condition that I've personally experienced which causes weight change outside of CICO.
Since the whole point of this thread is to "separate fact from fiction" regarding "medical conditions which affect weight," a medical condition that causes weight change outside of CICO is right on topic.
Your intentional misunderstanding does not change the laws of physics. You willfully ignore fact just so you can continue to argue.
Quite simply, everyone except you in this thread has demonstrated the ability to separate fact from fiction.
This. I really really wish the derailment of multiple threads by this ridiculousness would be stopped.
I concur. I've explained in detail and yet other users continue to derail by just arguing that my training and hard-lived experience didn't happen. In a thread where medical conditions that affect weight is the topic, one should reasonably expect that responding users would be interected in discussing medical issues that affect weight.
You obviously missed my point. YOU are the one derailing multiple threads, even after numerous people have asked you to stop. YOU are the one I am referencing when I say I dont understand why this hasnt been stopped.0 -
CurlyCockney wrote: »I just wanted to thank those of you that have shared, you are all truly inspiring.
I wanted to share my health issues too, but although I will talk about it in part talking about all of it is overwhelming to me. I don't know if it's because it's ongoing with no cure or reprieve, or because things change and new problems appear (it all stems from Transverse Myelitis), but I can only cope with it by dealing with one issue at a time.
Having said that, my life changed radically 7 years ago and the weight piled on. I couldn't eat nutritious meals as I wasn't able to prepare or cook them, and I've lost my hunger and satiety signals due to nerve damage. Last year, I got more support with other practical things so now I can use what energy I have to eat properly, and I eat by the clock rather than waiting for signals that aren't going to come. I've always known that CICO works (we used to just call it calorie counting though), but now I've had to learn that my calorie expenditure isn't what it was and adjust accordingly. I've tried to do some exercises with resistance bands, but it's not sustainable for me because it causes too much pain and fatigue. I'm not giving up though, and the weight is coming off just from eating in a deficit. 1st 13lb (27lb) so far, one more pound until I have to fulfil my promise to myself to give up smoking!
Curly, congrats on the loss so far, and good luck with the quitting smoking, you can do it! I have a lot of aunts and uncles who swore they would never quit (my daughter comes by her stubbornness naturally I guess!) and yet, once they decided to do it, they all just did it, and never went back. I've never heard one of them talk about missing it, either, once they got past that initial adjustment.
I hope I never ever hear DKA in any statement that refers to dieting ever, ever again. It is a life threatening medical condition. It is a false argument to say that it negates any rule of CICO. Losing weight because of a medical crisis has nothing to do with deficits or maintenance calories. It should be in the same group as VLCD's, not allowed.
Rabbit, I am just too fast
and GMTA 
@theocine sorry to hear about the cancer diagnosis
0 -
In my early 20s I started to have back problems. It was diagnosed as bulging disks that were pressing on my nerves and causing sciatica and other pain. They bothered me off and on throughout my 20s, where sometimes I was able to exercise and other times I would have to take time off - I referred to it as 'my back went out'.
Then when I was 29, I bent over at the waist one day to feed the cats, and experienced some of the most horrible pain I had felt up to that point. After some imaging, it was discovered that I had torn both of the lower disks in my back . I had to have a 2-level diskectomy and fusion.
It takes a year to recover from that surgery; there's walking on a treadmill involved, but it's a slow pace and certainly no cardio level activity. My life was quite different after the surgery. I found myself the heaviest I'd ever been in my life, other than when I was pregnant. I wasn't obese, but for me, it was a challenge I hadn't had to face before.
I didn't know how to lose the weight the right way. I tried lot of things. I went low carb. I cut out all sugar. I tried eating six small meals per day. Nothing worked. I literally spent years unhappy at that weight. I was suffering through rehab with my back and also dealing with this new weight challenge, and it was a real struggle.
Finally, I found MFP. I started posting in the forums, and I posted my 'woo'. All the things I thought I knew. Which, looking back, was rather foolish, considering that I'd already tried all of them and failed.
I found myself soundly corrected. I argued at first, but then I started to listen. I realized that what I was being told made a lot of sense. Once I listened, I learned, and I started applying what I was learning. I followed the ideas of CICO and moderation. By now i was able to exercise again. I started losing weight. It was a pretty wonderful feeling.
Then I had another setback. The disk above the fusion was bulging out so far it was pushing on another nerve and sending pain throughout my back and left leg. I had to have surgery again.
This time, I used all that I had learned on MFP and kept the weight off. I made it through rehab and when I was able to exercise again, I started another deficit to try to reach another goal weight.
I succeeded! What a great feeling .
Then another setback came along. I was diagnosed with brain cancer. Another surgery, more rehab. and another stretch of dropping my calorie goal to maintain my weight. Still succeeding!
A year after rehab, I was diagnosed with Celiac disease. This made a huge difference in my eating pattern because I had to completely change my diet. However, it was a great change because it sure made a difference in how great I felt, since I had been experiencing so much discomfort most of the time and not knowing why.
Now my back is deteriorating yet again, and I find myself sedentary and unable to move much. Time to adjust the calorie goal. I am confident that I will maintain my weight because I understand CICO, and will be forever grateful to those who taught me when I first showed up here on MFP.
The point I'm trying to make here is that we all experience challenges in life. It's probably actually not typical that a person is perfectly healthy with no challenges to face. CICO works. Calorie deficit works. Even if we have challenges, we can be successful. As long as we make adjustments to the calorie goal dependent on our activity level, we can do it!
You are amazing and I am glad we are friends. Your story is inspiring.0 -
blankiefinder wrote: »CurlyCockney wrote: »I just wanted to thank those of you that have shared, you are all truly inspiring.
I wanted to share my health issues too, but although I will talk about it in part talking about all of it is overwhelming to me. I don't know if it's because it's ongoing with no cure or reprieve, or because things change and new problems appear (it all stems from Transverse Myelitis), but I can only cope with it by dealing with one issue at a time.
Having said that, my life changed radically 7 years ago and the weight piled on. I couldn't eat nutritious meals as I wasn't able to prepare or cook them, and I've lost my hunger and satiety signals due to nerve damage. Last year, I got more support with other practical things so now I can use what energy I have to eat properly, and I eat by the clock rather than waiting for signals that aren't going to come. I've always known that CICO works (we used to just call it calorie counting though), but now I've had to learn that my calorie expenditure isn't what it was and adjust accordingly. I've tried to do some exercises with resistance bands, but it's not sustainable for me because it causes too much pain and fatigue. I'm not giving up though, and the weight is coming off just from eating in a deficit. 1st 13lb (27lb) so far, one more pound until I have to fulfil my promise to myself to give up smoking!
Curly, congrats on the loss so far, and good luck with the quitting smoking, you can do it! I have a lot of aunts and uncles who swore they would never quit (my daughter comes by her stubbornness naturally I guess!) and yet, once they decided to do it, they all just did it, and never went back. I've never heard one of them talk about missing it, either, once they got past that initial adjustment.
I hope I never ever hear DKA in any statement that refers to dieting ever, ever again. It is a life threatening medical condition. It is a false argument to say that it negates any rule of CICO. Losing weight because of a medical crisis has nothing to do with deficits or maintenance calories. It should be in the same group as VLCD's, not allowed.
Rabbit, I am just too fast and GMTA
@theocine sorry to hear about the cancer diagnosis
^All of this.
To be clearer, CICO is a scientific concept, and even if we on the boards misuse it colloquially, the factors presumed to be there scientifically are still there whether we "lay people" are aware of them, personally factor them in, or discuss them.
The colloquial usage and understanding of "CICO" does not negate its real scientific meaning, which is indeed absolute and accounts for all factors.0 -
The leaky gut syndrome may have been at the root of my autoimmunity health issues.
youngandraw.com/8-sneaky-causes-of-leaky-gut-that-can-lead-to-weight-gain/0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »blankiefinder wrote: »CurlyCockney wrote: »I just wanted to thank those of you that have shared, you are all truly inspiring.
I wanted to share my health issues too, but although I will talk about it in part talking about all of it is overwhelming to me. I don't know if it's because it's ongoing with no cure or reprieve, or because things change and new problems appear (it all stems from Transverse Myelitis), but I can only cope with it by dealing with one issue at a time.
Having said that, my life changed radically 7 years ago and the weight piled on. I couldn't eat nutritious meals as I wasn't able to prepare or cook them, and I've lost my hunger and satiety signals due to nerve damage. Last year, I got more support with other practical things so now I can use what energy I have to eat properly, and I eat by the clock rather than waiting for signals that aren't going to come. I've always known that CICO works (we used to just call it calorie counting though), but now I've had to learn that my calorie expenditure isn't what it was and adjust accordingly. I've tried to do some exercises with resistance bands, but it's not sustainable for me because it causes too much pain and fatigue. I'm not giving up though, and the weight is coming off just from eating in a deficit. 1st 13lb (27lb) so far, one more pound until I have to fulfil my promise to myself to give up smoking!
Curly, congrats on the loss so far, and good luck with the quitting smoking, you can do it! I have a lot of aunts and uncles who swore they would never quit (my daughter comes by her stubbornness naturally I guess!) and yet, once they decided to do it, they all just did it, and never went back. I've never heard one of them talk about missing it, either, once they got past that initial adjustment.
I hope I never ever hear DKA in any statement that refers to dieting ever, ever again. It is a life threatening medical condition. It is a false argument to say that it negates any rule of CICO. Losing weight because of a medical crisis has nothing to do with deficits or maintenance calories. It should be in the same group as VLCD's, not allowed.
Rabbit, I am just too fast and GMTA
@theocine sorry to hear about the cancer diagnosis
^All of this.
To be clearer, CICO is a scientific concept, and even if we on the boards misuse it colloquially, the factors presumed to be there scientifically are still there whether we "lay people" are aware of them, personally factor them in, or discuss them.
The colloquial usage and understanding of "CICO" does not negate its real scientific meaning, which is indeed absolute and accounts for all factors.
No, sorry. It is understood in the scientific community that it is neither absolute nor accounts for all factors. The best current model from my readings is the KD Hall model. Even with this model, research to validate it has shown:
"Gilmore et al found that the estimated average energy intake during overfeeding reasonably matched the actual energy intake and the uncertainty of the method amounted to a few hundred kilocalories per day.
It's a good estimator, it is an excellent tool for weight loss but it isn't exact nor absolute.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/100/3/744.long
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/298/3/E449.abstract?ijkey=bf9a88465582dccc9d7f04bf73034c8ea6ea3a66&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha
I don't want to pollute your excellent thread on with this. If someone is interested with those details - it should be in another thread.
By the way, this doesn't negate your criticisms on the CICO denial - the variants are smaller than the majors.0
This discussion has been closed.
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