Medical Conditions Which Affect Weight: Separating Fact From Fiction
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midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »I'd actually like to show midwesterner where he's going off the rails, because he derails every CICO thread with his DKA episode.
He's even saying now -- to the point he left a question unanswered -- that his current medical condition renders CICO to not work absolutely.
The last statement goes to the heart of exactly what I'm trying to get to in this thread, and that is the mechanics whereby certain medical conditions effect CICO.
The understanding on the boards should be clear: CICO is always valid. The confounding factors can usually be explained, and in more complex, elegant accountings of CICO, they are indeed accounted for. Saying you have a medical condition doesn't negate CICO, add to it, or detract from it. It's just a part of the equation.
So let's explore those medical conditions and bring to light how they effect energy balance so people can understand why weight loss/gain might not work as expected.
I'm not clear what question you are saying I've left unanswered, but I've thoroughly explained why the medical circumstance mentioned circumvents CICO.
Let's start with two things. Firstly, how you think it's at all helpful to keep bringing up a life or death medical emergency in CICO threads. Secondly, you referred early to your current situation being one where CICO didn't work absolutely. Why is that?
You're being all vague. Again. And still going on as if something is wrong with CICO. What is your current situation that's making CICO wrong?
Whether it was a fatality situation or not, it proves the point that CICO is not absolute.
My current situation where CICO doesn't work is (up until recently) several plateaus and whooshes over a 9 month period of time. The longest plateau was 5 months and ended with an 8 lb. whoosh in just a few days. I'm not sure why that happened, but I do know that I was doing what everyone would suggest (weighing food, logging every calorie, etc.) and still was fluctuating on the scale around the same base weight until I had a sudden and permanent loss.
Most plateaus are caused from inaccurate logging.0 -
You don't know that hypothyroidism only counts for a minor weight gain. It can - and has - led to some major weight gain.
That slowed metabolism doesn't just make you gain a little more. It also depletes you of energy. Guess what your body craves when it has no energy? Yup! Food. So, if you want to move about, you need more food to give you energy. It also makes you tired - so tired. And constipated. And light-headed, especially if you're running on less food than "a lot of food." There are many other things, too.
Nobody likes to be starving and dizzy. People need to be able to go about their days. So, they eat. They eat "out of a deficit" so that they can go to work and go about their lives. And the pounds pack on.
In extreme cases, it can affect your breathing. It did mine! Although eating gets harder to do and you might take a little break while you have food, you need more food than ever.
There are a whole lot of medical conditions that affect different people in different ways. Even doctors don't understand them all and have to specialize. Some have yet to be understood by anyone. So, you're not going to figure them all out in a thread, online.
It might be best for us all to have the humility to remember that other people have issues that we cannot understand and leave it at that.
There's nothing you're saying here contradicting anything in this thread. That those symptoms lead to a choice to eat? Well, that's a choice. That's not a cause/effect relationship that's a direct result of simply having the condition.
I have no energy due to having psoriatic arthritis. I have learned to respond to that by not reaching for food, but by getting up and taking a walk. It's not a given that I HAVE to respond in a certain way to a lack of energy.0 -
You don't know that hypothyroidism only counts for a minor weight gain. It can - and has - led to some major weight gain.
That slowed metabolism doesn't just make you gain a little more. It also depletes you of energy. Guess what your body craves when it has no energy? Yup! Food. So, if you want to move about, you need more food to give you energy. It also makes you tired - so tired. And constipated. And light-headed, especially if you're running on less food than "a lot of food." There are many other things, too.
Nobody likes to be starving and dizzy. People need to be able to go about their days. So, they eat. They eat "out of a deficit" so that they can go to work and go about their lives. And the pounds pack on.
In extreme cases, it can affect your breathing. It did mine! Although eating gets harder to do and you might take a little break while you have food, you need more food than ever.
There are a whole lot of medical conditions that affect different people in different ways. Even doctors don't understand them all and have to specialize. Some have yet to be understood by anyone. So, you're not going to figure them all out in a thread, online.
It might be best for us all to have the humility to remember that other people have issues that we cannot understand and leave it at that.
The hypothyroidism is not what leads to major weight gain. Making the decision to eat more when you have symptoms like dizziness, lack of energy, etc, is a conscious one. It is what the person did rather than, going to the doctor with that list of symptoms and determining the cause and then getting the medical condition causing them under control.
While it is true that people do have issues they might not understand, sometimes connecting in an online forum with other people who do understand them can help them in the journey. That's a much better, and much more supportive thing to do than just 'leaving it at that' when people are seeking help and answers.
+1 I agree. Particularly since someone else might make other choices in how to deal with those symptoms.
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My chosen (admittedly radical) treatment for T2 diabetes and obesity was bariatric surgery. The surgery took care of both conditions. T2 is greatly relieved by getting weight closer to normal range. So does one always treat the underlying condition first, or can it be helped by weight loss?
Weight loss is the first recommendation for high blood pressure, T2 diabetes and high cholesterol. People needing knee surgery are often asked to lose weight to reduce risk and improve recovery.
Isn't there a bit of a chicken and the egg scenario going on here?
Now, I believe people with metabolic conditions should check with their doctor before embarking on an elimination diet especially. Diabetics for instance are sensitive to the timing and types of foods they eat. Mess around with that too much and they can get very, very sick. I lost an uncle who went on a fad diet after a T2 diabetes diagnosis, from a stroke. He strayed too far from conventional advice and it killed him.
I always, always wonder about that chicken and egg thing in all of these discussions, because honestly? Simply losing weight has a positive impact on so many medical conditions (including IR!). A lot of the back and forth is silly.
I started out on this path for medical reasons myself. PsA has me wanting to get pressure off my joints. I wish my knees would get the message that I've lost 70 pounds and stop bothering me so much!0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »You don't know that hypothyroidism only counts for a minor weight gain. It can - and has - led to some major weight gain.
That slowed metabolism doesn't just make you gain a little more. It also depletes you of energy. Guess what your body craves when it has no energy? Yup! Food. So, if you want to move about, you need more food to give you energy. It also makes you tired - so tired. And constipated. And light-headed, especially if you're running on less food than "a lot of food." There are many other things, too.
Nobody likes to be starving and dizzy. People need to be able to go about their days. So, they eat. They eat "out of a deficit" so that they can go to work and go about their lives. And the pounds pack on.
In extreme cases, it can affect your breathing. It did mine! Although eating gets harder to do and you might take a little break while you have food, you need more food than ever.
There are a whole lot of medical conditions that affect different people in different ways. Even doctors don't understand them all and have to specialize. Some have yet to be understood by anyone. So, you're not going to figure them all out in a thread, online.
It might be best for us all to have the humility to remember that other people have issues that we cannot understand and leave it at that.
There's nothing you're saying here contradicting anything in this thread. That those symptoms lead to a choice to eat? Well, that's a choice. That's not a cause/effect relationship that's a direct result of simply having the condition.
I have no energy due to having psoriatic arthritis. I have learned to respond to that by not reaching for food, but by getting up and taking a walk. It's not a given that I HAVE to respond in a certain way to a lack of energy.
To expand on this, I don't have a physical health condition (at least that I know of) but chronic mental health problems (bipolar 2, anxiety, PTSD, agoraphobia.........) that have as a side effect extreme fatigue. It's common for people with diagnosis and it's also common like with other conditions that cause fatigue, for people to eat to try to compensate for that energy loss. It's not a symptom though of the condition, to gain weight. The symptom is perceived or real appetite increase, if we respond to that symptom by eating more then we gain weight. CICO still applies.0 -
You don't know that hypothyroidism only counts for a minor weight gain. It can - and has - led to some major weight gain.
That slowed metabolism doesn't just make you gain a little more. It also depletes you of energy. Guess what your body craves when it has no energy? Yup! Food. So, if you want to move about, you need more food to give you energy. It also makes you tired - so tired. And constipated. And light-headed, especially if you're running on less food than "a lot of food." There are many other things, too.
Nobody likes to be starving and dizzy. People need to be able to go about their days. So, they eat. They eat "out of a deficit" so that they can go to work and go about their lives. And the pounds pack on.
In extreme cases, it can affect your breathing. It did mine! Although eating gets harder to do and you might take a little break while you have food, you need more food than ever.
There are a whole lot of medical conditions that affect different people in different ways. Even doctors don't understand them all and have to specialize. Some have yet to be understood by anyone. So, you're not going to figure them all out in a thread, online.
It might be best for us all to have the humility to remember that other people have issues that we cannot understand and leave it at that.
The hypothyroidism is not what leads to major weight gain. Making the decision to eat more when you have symptoms like dizziness, lack of energy, etc, is a conscious one. It is what the person did rather than, going to the doctor with that list of symptoms and determining the cause and then getting the medical condition causing them under control.
While it is true that people do have issues they might not understand, sometimes connecting in an online forum with other people who do understand them can help them in the journey. That's a much better, and much more supportive thing to do than just 'leaving it at that' when people are seeking help and answers.
In the real world people do not trot off to the doc with a list of symptoms and get an accurate diagnosis, appropriate treatment and timely resolution - especially for endocrine problems.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »I'd actually like to show midwesterner where he's going off the rails, because he derails every CICO thread with his DKA episode.
He's even saying now -- to the point he left a question unanswered -- that his current medical condition renders CICO to not work absolutely.
The last statement goes to the heart of exactly what I'm trying to get to in this thread, and that is the mechanics whereby certain medical conditions effect CICO.
The understanding on the boards should be clear: CICO is always valid. The confounding factors can usually be explained, and in more complex, elegant accountings of CICO, they are indeed accounted for. Saying you have a medical condition doesn't negate CICO, add to it, or detract from it. It's just a part of the equation.
So let's explore those medical conditions and bring to light how they effect energy balance so people can understand why weight loss/gain might not work as expected.
I'm not clear what question you are saying I've left unanswered, but I've thoroughly explained why the medical circumstance mentioned circumvents CICO.
Let's start with two things. Firstly, how you think it's at all helpful to keep bringing up a life or death medical emergency in CICO threads. Secondly, you referred early to your current situation being one where CICO didn't work absolutely. Why is that?
You're being all vague. Again. And still going on as if something is wrong with CICO. What is your current situation that's making CICO wrong?
Whether it was a fatality situation or not, it proves the point that CICO is not absolute.
My current situation where CICO doesn't work is (up until recently) several plateaus and whooshes over a 9 month period of time. The longest plateau was 5 months and ended with an 8 lb. whoosh in just a few days. I'm not sure why that happened, but I do know that I was doing what everyone would suggest (weighing food, logging every calorie, etc.) and still was fluctuating on the scale around the same base weight until I had a sudden and permanent loss.
You and the plateaus. The last time I remember ever having this discussion, logging issues were abundant when it came to you.
Even if you were logging accurately and managing your condition well, there are factors involved with people who eat at deficit for long periods of time which effect their hormones. These are still accounted for in CICO -- EVEN IF THE PERSON TRYING TO BALANCE THE EQUATION DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT THEM.
A different outcome than expected does NOT invalidate CICO, it simply speaks to the fact that you're not aware as an observer outside your body of all the factors playing into it at the moment.
Unless... wait a minute... are you truly confusing CICO with just the calories you consume and your exercise calories? Because I assure you, the energy balance equation is far more complex than that. It accounts for those hormonal factors, even if you can't.
No, I was accused of logging issues. That's because it is easy to explain if you just write it off as a logging issue. Yet that accusation is/was unfounded. Even if it was accurate (it isn't), then it still doesn't explain the 5 months of plateau and 8 lb. loss in a few days that I experienced.0 -
You're wrong.You don't know that hypothyroidism only counts for a minor weight gain. It can - and has - led to some major weight gain.
That slowed metabolism doesn't just make you gain a little more. It also depletes you of energy. Guess what your body craves when it has no energy? Yup! Food. So, if you want to move about, you need more food to give you energy. It also makes you tired - so tired. And constipated. And light-headed, especially if you're running on less food than "a lot of food." There are many other things, too.
Nobody likes to be starving and dizzy. People need to be able to go about their days. So, they eat. They eat "out of a deficit" so that they can go to work and go about their lives. And the pounds pack on.
In extreme cases, it can affect your breathing. It did mine! Although eating gets harder to do and you might take a little break while you have food, you need more food than ever.
There are a whole lot of medical conditions that affect different people in different ways. Even doctors don't understand them all and have to specialize. Some have yet to be understood by anyone. So, you're not going to figure them all out in a thread, online.
It might be best for us all to have the humility to remember that other people have issues that we cannot understand and leave it at that.
The hypothyroidism is not what leads to major weight gain. Making the decision to eat more when you have symptoms like dizziness, lack of energy, etc, is a conscious one. It is what the person did rather than, going to the doctor with that list of symptoms and determining the cause and then getting the medical condition causing them under control.
While it is true that people do have issues they might not understand, sometimes connecting in an online forum with other people who do understand them can help them in the journey. That's a much better, and much more supportive thing to do than just 'leaving it at that' when people are seeking help and answers.
You make assumptions that are wrong and they lead you to conclusions that are wrong. So, lots and lots of wrongness in that post.
If you don't wish to have the humility to admit that people have problems you don't understand, that is your choice. It's not a bad suggestion, though.
I think a reasonable discussion includes honest, affable exchange of information. That's what I'm trying to do. I'd appreciate the same, not blasting me with accusations.
I am not being egotistical in any way; I have years of medical experience and research experience to back up everything that I said. I do understand the problems that I am addressing. I'm sorry if you took some offense to my post- however, your feelings of offense don't negate the science behind everything that I said.
I thought that focusing on the assumptions would be productive also. This whole topic is a setup.
I've found that belief in ones own expertise is typically a danger to ones actual expertise.0 -
You're wrong.You don't know that hypothyroidism only counts for a minor weight gain. It can - and has - led to some major weight gain.
That slowed metabolism doesn't just make you gain a little more. It also depletes you of energy. Guess what your body craves when it has no energy? Yup! Food. So, if you want to move about, you need more food to give you energy. It also makes you tired - so tired. And constipated. And light-headed, especially if you're running on less food than "a lot of food." There are many other things, too.
Nobody likes to be starving and dizzy. People need to be able to go about their days. So, they eat. They eat "out of a deficit" so that they can go to work and go about their lives. And the pounds pack on.
In extreme cases, it can affect your breathing. It did mine! Although eating gets harder to do and you might take a little break while you have food, you need more food than ever.
There are a whole lot of medical conditions that affect different people in different ways. Even doctors don't understand them all and have to specialize. Some have yet to be understood by anyone. So, you're not going to figure them all out in a thread, online.
It might be best for us all to have the humility to remember that other people have issues that we cannot understand and leave it at that.
The hypothyroidism is not what leads to major weight gain. Making the decision to eat more when you have symptoms like dizziness, lack of energy, etc, is a conscious one. It is what the person did rather than, going to the doctor with that list of symptoms and determining the cause and then getting the medical condition causing them under control.
While it is true that people do have issues they might not understand, sometimes connecting in an online forum with other people who do understand them can help them in the journey. That's a much better, and much more supportive thing to do than just 'leaving it at that' when people are seeking help and answers.
You make assumptions that are wrong and they lead you to conclusions that are wrong. So, lots and lots of wrongness in that post.
If you don't wish to have the humility to admit that people have problems you don't understand, that is your choice. It's not a bad suggestion, though.
You basically said that people ate more because of the side effects of hypothyroidism. It's a choice to eat to deal with those. The disease doesn't just cause that to happen.
That is ... exactly what Cindy said.
One of points of this thread, and I'm sorry if you feel that any of this is not helpful, is to do this sort of thing -- point out the side effects and how they can get to you so that people can be watchful.
Undiagnosed hypothyroidism itself doesn't cause very much weight gain, but how people deal with some of the symptoms may lead to more than what the disease itself causes if the person chooses food as a coping mechanism.0 -
It's more a choice to not pass out than it is a desire to eat, though. "Staying conscious" is kind of a requirement. I think everyone can agree on that. "Being able to go to work" is a requirement for many.PeachyCarol wrote: »You don't know that hypothyroidism only counts for a minor weight gain. It can - and has - led to some major weight gain.
That slowed metabolism doesn't just make you gain a little more. It also depletes you of energy. Guess what your body craves when it has no energy? Yup! Food. So, if you want to move about, you need more food to give you energy. It also makes you tired - so tired. And constipated. And light-headed, especially if you're running on less food than "a lot of food." There are many other things, too.
Nobody likes to be starving and dizzy. People need to be able to go about their days. So, they eat. They eat "out of a deficit" so that they can go to work and go about their lives. And the pounds pack on.
In extreme cases, it can affect your breathing. It did mine! Although eating gets harder to do and you might take a little break while you have food, you need more food than ever.
There are a whole lot of medical conditions that affect different people in different ways. Even doctors don't understand them all and have to specialize. Some have yet to be understood by anyone. So, you're not going to figure them all out in a thread, online.
It might be best for us all to have the humility to remember that other people have issues that we cannot understand and leave it at that.
There's nothing you're saying here contradicting anything in this thread. That those symptoms lead to a choice to eat? Well, that's a choice. That's not a cause/effect relationship that's a direct result of simply having the condition.
I have no energy due to having psoriatic arthritis. I have learned to respond to that by not reaching for food, but by getting up and taking a walk. It's not a given that I HAVE to respond in a certain way to a lack of energy.
A lot of people gain weight as a result of their hypothyroidism. As soon as I got the pills, I began losing and have lost almost 100 pounds. It's the pills. I work hard. I have to work every bit as hard as anyone else. The pills just give me what healthy people had, anyway. But without those pills, I'd still be gaining instead of losing. My weight loss is all because I CAN lose now. I couldn't before.
Between the dizziness from eating 800-900 calories and the natural drop in BP from the lack of hormone, LOTS of dizziness. Tried to diet, got dizzy, ate. Failed many times.
People gain a lot of weight (and become very skinny) due to thyroid problems.
There is no reason to disbelieve it because it's true. If you don't want to believe it, okay, I cannot make you. But it's real and it happens.
I'm not going to have a big fight about it, but wanted to state it. If you don't want to believe it, that's cool. I just wanted to let you know.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »I'd actually like to show midwesterner where he's going off the rails, because he derails every CICO thread with his DKA episode.
He's even saying now -- to the point he left a question unanswered -- that his current medical condition renders CICO to not work absolutely.
The last statement goes to the heart of exactly what I'm trying to get to in this thread, and that is the mechanics whereby certain medical conditions effect CICO.
The understanding on the boards should be clear: CICO is always valid. The confounding factors can usually be explained, and in more complex, elegant accountings of CICO, they are indeed accounted for. Saying you have a medical condition doesn't negate CICO, add to it, or detract from it. It's just a part of the equation.
So let's explore those medical conditions and bring to light how they effect energy balance so people can understand why weight loss/gain might not work as expected.
I'm not clear what question you are saying I've left unanswered, but I've thoroughly explained why the medical circumstance mentioned circumvents CICO.
Let's start with two things. Firstly, how you think it's at all helpful to keep bringing up a life or death medical emergency in CICO threads. Secondly, you referred early to your current situation being one where CICO didn't work absolutely. Why is that?
You're being all vague. Again. And still going on as if something is wrong with CICO. What is your current situation that's making CICO wrong?
Whether it was a fatality situation or not, it proves the point that CICO is not absolute.
My current situation where CICO doesn't work is (up until recently) several plateaus and whooshes over a 9 month period of time. The longest plateau was 5 months and ended with an 8 lb. whoosh in just a few days. I'm not sure why that happened, but I do know that I was doing what everyone would suggest (weighing food, logging every calorie, etc.) and still was fluctuating on the scale around the same base weight until I had a sudden and permanent loss.
You and the plateaus. The last time I remember ever having this discussion, logging issues were abundant when it came to you.
Even if you were logging accurately and managing your condition well, there are factors involved with people who eat at deficit for long periods of time which effect their hormones. These are still accounted for in CICO -- EVEN IF THE PERSON TRYING TO BALANCE THE EQUATION DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT THEM.
A different outcome than expected does NOT invalidate CICO, it simply speaks to the fact that you're not aware as an observer outside your body of all the factors playing into it at the moment.
Unless... wait a minute... are you truly confusing CICO with just the calories you consume and your exercise calories? Because I assure you, the energy balance equation is far more complex than that. It accounts for those hormonal factors, even if you can't.
No, I was accused of logging issues. That's because it is easy to explain if you just write it off as a logging issue. Yet that accusation is/was unfounded. Even if it was accurate (it isn't), then it still doesn't explain the 5 months of plateau and 8 lb. loss in a few days that I experienced.
I really am over this thread becoming about you. Please bring this back to what I said about CICO. I did explain to you how it could explain it.
There are hormonal effects on long term dieters.
CICO is absolute. The ability for you to get a handle on all that your body is factoring into it isn't. Why is this so hard for you to understand?0 -
It's more a choice to not pass out than it is a desire to eat, though. "Staying conscious" is kind of a requirement. I think everyone can agree on that. "Being able to go to work" is a requirement for many.PeachyCarol wrote: »You don't know that hypothyroidism only counts for a minor weight gain. It can - and has - led to some major weight gain.
That slowed metabolism doesn't just make you gain a little more. It also depletes you of energy. Guess what your body craves when it has no energy? Yup! Food. So, if you want to move about, you need more food to give you energy. It also makes you tired - so tired. And constipated. And light-headed, especially if you're running on less food than "a lot of food." There are many other things, too.
Nobody likes to be starving and dizzy. People need to be able to go about their days. So, they eat. They eat "out of a deficit" so that they can go to work and go about their lives. And the pounds pack on.
In extreme cases, it can affect your breathing. It did mine! Although eating gets harder to do and you might take a little break while you have food, you need more food than ever.
There are a whole lot of medical conditions that affect different people in different ways. Even doctors don't understand them all and have to specialize. Some have yet to be understood by anyone. So, you're not going to figure them all out in a thread, online.
It might be best for us all to have the humility to remember that other people have issues that we cannot understand and leave it at that.
There's nothing you're saying here contradicting anything in this thread. That those symptoms lead to a choice to eat? Well, that's a choice. That's not a cause/effect relationship that's a direct result of simply having the condition.
I have no energy due to having psoriatic arthritis. I have learned to respond to that by not reaching for food, but by getting up and taking a walk. It's not a given that I HAVE to respond in a certain way to a lack of energy.
A lot of people gain weight as a result of their hypothyroidism. As soon as I got the pills, I began losing and have lost almost 100 pounds. It's the pills. I work hard. I have to work every bit as hard as anyone else. The pills just give me what healthy people had, anyway. But without those pills, I'd still be gaining instead of losing. My weight loss is all because I CAN lose now. I couldn't before.
Between the dizziness from eating 800-900 calories and the natural drop in BP from the lack of hormone, LOTS of dizziness. Tried to diet, got dizzy, ate. Failed many times.
People gain a lot of weight (and become very skinny) due to thyroid problems.
There is no reason to disbelieve it because it's true. If you don't want to believe it, okay, I cannot make you. But it's real and it happens.
I'm not going to have a big fight about it, but wanted to state it. If you don't want to believe it, that's cool. I just wanted to let you know.
I say this with respect, but I have a feeling that you are failing to make some of the finer distinctions here, and they are important ones.
You weren't dizzy because of your thyroid condition, you were dizzy because you were eating so little. You needed to eat because you were starving yourself. Why were you doing that?
The weight gain/loss comes down not to the thyroid problem itself, but to the caloric intake the person effects while having the thyroid problem. There's that fine line distinction I was talking about.
I have Hashimoto's disease. I get it. You and I take the same dose of synthroid.
I don't "disbelieve", I'm making distinctions you aren't making. You're fully blaming the disease itself. I'm saying it's a bit more complicated than that.0 -
"Staying conscious" is another point where, even with CICO, it is a tough choice for type 1 diabetics. Yesterday, I consumed more than my target calories because it got to the end of the day, I was doing fine for calories, and then had hypoglycemia. I had to consume more calories in the form of carbs to get my blood sugar back up... 3 times.
Today looks like it might be the same situation... my blood sugar was just 40 mg/dl, so I had to eat some carbs. After that, I'm down to 200 calories remaining for dinner, and signs point towards a recurrence of low blood sugar.
There was a particularly challenging day in April 2014 when I ate over 600g of carbs just to treat low BG and stay conscious. The lowest BG taken that day is unknown because my meter won't show anything below 20 mg/dl... and I spent 14 hours of getting it up to a safe level before watching it drop right away and repeating.
What's even worse is that I've started to notice I am getting used to low BG. I'm not totally hypo unaware yet, but I might be getting there. With a BG at 40 mg/dl last night right before bed and again this afternoon, I only felt a little bit low. I was probably in the 50's before I even recognized it.
Even in a case where CICO works, sometimes we must have more CI for medical reasons.
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VintageFeline wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »You don't know that hypothyroidism only counts for a minor weight gain. It can - and has - led to some major weight gain.
That slowed metabolism doesn't just make you gain a little more. It also depletes you of energy. Guess what your body craves when it has no energy? Yup! Food. So, if you want to move about, you need more food to give you energy. It also makes you tired - so tired. And constipated. And light-headed, especially if you're running on less food than "a lot of food." There are many other things, too.
Nobody likes to be starving and dizzy. People need to be able to go about their days. So, they eat. They eat "out of a deficit" so that they can go to work and go about their lives. And the pounds pack on.
In extreme cases, it can affect your breathing. It did mine! Although eating gets harder to do and you might take a little break while you have food, you need more food than ever.
There are a whole lot of medical conditions that affect different people in different ways. Even doctors don't understand them all and have to specialize. Some have yet to be understood by anyone. So, you're not going to figure them all out in a thread, online.
It might be best for us all to have the humility to remember that other people have issues that we cannot understand and leave it at that.
There's nothing you're saying here contradicting anything in this thread. That those symptoms lead to a choice to eat? Well, that's a choice. That's not a cause/effect relationship that's a direct result of simply having the condition.
I have no energy due to having psoriatic arthritis. I have learned to respond to that by not reaching for food, but by getting up and taking a walk. It's not a given that I HAVE to respond in a certain way to a lack of energy.
To expand on this, I don't have a physical health condition (at least that I know of) but chronic mental health problems (bipolar 2, anxiety, PTSD, agoraphobia.........) that have as a side effect extreme fatigue. It's common for people with diagnosis and it's also common like with other conditions that cause fatigue, for people to eat to try to compensate for that energy loss. It's not a symptom though of the condition, to gain weight. The symptom is perceived or real appetite increase, if we respond to that symptom by eating more then we gain weight. CICO still applies.
Fatigue is rough! I sympathize. I've been dealing with it hardcore for about 11 years now and have not always handled it well. For a time, I did use food to deal. That always made it worse.
There's a reason they recommend exercise for fatigue. It's so counter-intuitive, but it's the best thing I've found for it.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »
Even in a case where CICO works, sometimes we must have more CI for medical reasons.
It must be a low day for type 1s. I was just in the 40s myself and am totally out of calories for the day. That is super rare for me.
I don't know if you pump or take injections. I spent about a month of intensive basal testing this summer to get my blood sugars and Insulin levels in much better control so I wouldn't have that vicious cycle of eating to cover lows. It really helped my weight loss. With the exception of today I rarely go low.
One of the overlooked downsides to type one is having to eat extra carbs to bring up a low blood sugar. Definitely unwanted but necessary CI
0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »You don't know that hypothyroidism only counts for a minor weight gain. It can - and has - led to some major weight gain.
That slowed metabolism doesn't just make you gain a little more. It also depletes you of energy. Guess what your body craves when it has no energy? Yup! Food. So, if you want to move about, you need more food to give you energy. It also makes you tired - so tired. And constipated. And light-headed, especially if you're running on less food than "a lot of food." There are many other things, too.
Nobody likes to be starving and dizzy. People need to be able to go about their days. So, they eat. They eat "out of a deficit" so that they can go to work and go about their lives. And the pounds pack on.
In extreme cases, it can affect your breathing. It did mine! Although eating gets harder to do and you might take a little break while you have food, you need more food than ever.
There are a whole lot of medical conditions that affect different people in different ways. Even doctors don't understand them all and have to specialize. Some have yet to be understood by anyone. So, you're not going to figure them all out in a thread, online.
It might be best for us all to have the humility to remember that other people have issues that we cannot understand and leave it at that.
There's nothing you're saying here contradicting anything in this thread. That those symptoms lead to a choice to eat? Well, that's a choice. That's not a cause/effect relationship that's a direct result of simply having the condition.
I have no energy due to having psoriatic arthritis. I have learned to respond to that by not reaching for food, but by getting up and taking a walk. It's not a given that I HAVE to respond in a certain way to a lack of energy.
To expand on this, I don't have a physical health condition (at least that I know of) but chronic mental health problems (bipolar 2, anxiety, PTSD, agoraphobia.........) that have as a side effect extreme fatigue. It's common for people with diagnosis and it's also common like with other conditions that cause fatigue, for people to eat to try to compensate for that energy loss. It's not a symptom though of the condition, to gain weight. The symptom is perceived or real appetite increase, if we respond to that symptom by eating more then we gain weight. CICO still applies.
Fatigue is rough! I sympathize. I've been dealing with it hardcore for about 11 years now and have not always handled it well. For a time, I did use food to deal. That always made it worse.
There's a reason they recommend exercise for fatigue. It's so counter-intuitive, but it's the best thing I've found for it.
I do exercise but it hasn't really helped, I discovered I hated exercise because I have exercise induced panic/anxiety attacks which I have worked through but it makes exercise doubly exhausting and I have to nap a lot but the other benefits for my mental health outweigh that. I exercise instead of eat and I can't eat while I'm sleeping! Oh and exercise is an appetite suppressant for me.
But yeah, working out how to manage a condition is key to getting on top of your own CICO data.0 -
My cortisol issues were not due to daily stress from life. They were due to 2 separate trauma situations. Fight or flight. After the 2nd episode about 6 weeks after the first it took my 3 days to stop shaking. Longer for my breathing to return to normal. I've read it can take months to recover from these kind of episodes. I also found out this week in severely vitamin D deficient which can also cause problems. (Side note I also have celiac and hashimotos but those are very well regulated and have not hindered weight loss.) In my case I can see the insulin resistance more than a non diabetic. My insulin needs more than doubled with both traumas and it's taking about 3 weeks each time to come back down to normal. Crazy stuff.
(Not sure why he dka discussion is happening here. Yes you quickly lose weight and either die or take insulin.)
that's not cortisol - that's adrenaline. It surges through your body in emergent situations to give you the energy to either fight or flee.
Cortisol and adrenaline work together. The attached article describes cortisol as activating within minutes of a stressful event. Adrenaline is in seconds.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/19/adrenaline-cortisol-stress-hormones_n_3112800.html
Yes, in fact, one of cortisol's functions is actually to help clear adrenaline (though my preference is to call it epinephrine).0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »"Staying conscious" is another point where, even with CICO, it is a tough choice for type 1 diabetics. Yesterday, I consumed more than my target calories because it got to the end of the day, I was doing fine for calories, and then had hypoglycemia. I had to consume more calories in the form of carbs to get my blood sugar back up... 3 times.
Today looks like it might be the same situation... my blood sugar was just 40 mg/dl, so I had to eat some carbs. After that, I'm down to 200 calories remaining for dinner, and signs point towards a recurrence of low blood sugar.
There was a particularly challenging day in April 2014 when I ate over 600g of carbs just to treat low BG and stay conscious. The lowest BG taken that day is unknown because my meter won't show anything below 20 mg/dl... and I spent 14 hours of getting it up to a safe level before watching it drop right away and repeating.
What's even worse is that I've started to notice I am getting used to low BG. I'm not totally hypo unaware yet, but I might be getting there. With a BG at 40 mg/dl last night right before bed and again this afternoon, I only felt a little bit low. I was probably in the 50's before I even recognized it.
Even in a case where CICO works, sometimes we must have more CI for medical reasons.
As I had said in previous posts to others - CICO works when the medical condition is under control. If your blood sugar is this low even with the amount of carbs you say you are consuming, then your condition is not under control, and you need to work more closely with your doctor to ensure that it is before you attempt to work on any form of weight loss.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »
Even in a case where CICO works, sometimes we must have more CI for medical reasons.
It must be a low day for type 1s. I was just in the 40s myself and am totally out of calories for the day. That is super rare for me.
I don't know if you pump or take injections. I spent about a month of intensive basal testing this summer to get my blood sugars and Insulin levels in much better control so I wouldn't have that vicious cycle of eating to cover lows. It really helped my weight loss. With the exception of today I rarely go low.
One of the overlooked downsides to type one is having to eat extra carbs to bring up a low blood sugar. Definitely unwanted but necessary CI
I pump. I've done some significant basal testing, and usually my rates change with weight loss right away.
Now in my case, I have double diabetes (both type 1 and type 2). I talk about type 1 more because it is a more significant issue, but I take more insulin than most because I also have type 2 (insulin resistance). When I started losing weight, I was taking over 200 units of insulin daily. I'm now down to around 65 units daily after around 30 lbs. lost. I've had to re-do my basal rates several times and usually don't have the luxury of doing basal testing first. Sometimes I have to over-shoot because I would rather wake up with high BG than not wake up because I a too low (which has happened more times than I can remember).0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »"Staying conscious" is another point where, even with CICO, it is a tough choice for type 1 diabetics. Yesterday, I consumed more than my target calories because it got to the end of the day, I was doing fine for calories, and then had hypoglycemia. I had to consume more calories in the form of carbs to get my blood sugar back up... 3 times.
Today looks like it might be the same situation... my blood sugar was just 40 mg/dl, so I had to eat some carbs. After that, I'm down to 200 calories remaining for dinner, and signs point towards a recurrence of low blood sugar.
There was a particularly challenging day in April 2014 when I ate over 600g of carbs just to treat low BG and stay conscious. The lowest BG taken that day is unknown because my meter won't show anything below 20 mg/dl... and I spent 14 hours of getting it up to a safe level before watching it drop right away and repeating.
What's even worse is that I've started to notice I am getting used to low BG. I'm not totally hypo unaware yet, but I might be getting there. With a BG at 40 mg/dl last night right before bed and again this afternoon, I only felt a little bit low. I was probably in the 50's before I even recognized it.
Even in a case where CICO works, sometimes we must have more CI for medical reasons.
As I had said in previous posts to others - CICO works when the medical condition is under control. If your blood sugar is this low even with the amount of carbs you say you are consuming, then your condition is not under control, and you need to work more closely with your doctor to ensure that it is before you attempt to work on any form of weight loss.
The day when I ate over 600g of carbs to treat lows, I didn't take boluses during the 14 hours and had temp basals of 0% during part of that time too. Beyond that, there is no way to prevent lows aside from eating more carbs (although I did go for an easy walk in the beginning - 20-30 min., so actually I could have not exercised at all that day as well).0
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