Medical Conditions Which Affect Weight: Separating Fact From Fiction
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CoffeeNCardio wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
But isn't it really TDEE - deficit(weekly loss goal dependent) + exercise? Hence the choice you have to make when you pick activity level? Otherwise, most everyone would be set at the same # wouldn't they? I can't imagine we're all at 1200 calorie limits... (yes, I'm really asking the question, not an attempt to disagree)
No. First, TDEE includes exercise already, so you wouldn't add it again. Second, the example I've provided (and there may be more that I'm not aware of) falls outside of the idea of eating less than TDEE.
Since you mention it, TDEE is how MFP users usually define CO.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »CoffeeNCardio wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
But isn't it really TDEE - deficit(weekly loss goal dependent) + exercise? Hence the choice you have to make when you pick activity level? Otherwise, most everyone would be set at the same # wouldn't they? I can't imagine we're all at 1200 calorie limits... (yes, I'm really asking the question, not an attempt to disagree)
No. First, TDEE includes exercise already, so you wouldn't add it again. Second, the example I've provided (and there may be more that I'm not aware of) falls outside of the idea of eating less than TDEE.
Since you mention it, TDEE is how MFP users usually define CO.
But if I'm set at sedentary, with a TDEE of 1691, doesn't that negate the exercise thing? Cause sedentary doesn't account for any exercise right? So any exercise I did on top of that would have to be counted right? Thus TDEE-deficit%+exercise?0 -
Hmmm.... I guess that would ONLY work if you were set at sedentary huh... so actually not a really valid question for someone else.0
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mysteps2beauty wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »Great thread carol !
I have nothing to add as far as medical conditions but would like to mention prescription medicine .
When I was first starting out, I went to the doctor and said " my depo birth control shot is causing me not to lose weight !"
He said, that's actually a myth. Google the words" birth control and weight gain" , you'll see thousands saying the same thing but its only because that's how misunderstood people are. He explained that it can cause an increased appetite , thus causing people to eat at a surplus and gain weight. But people like to leave out the surplus part and go straight to the weight gain part . if you ask 100 girls did they gain weight on depo, 75 will say yes and zero will admit to overeating. So that's how the " weight gain from depo " thing goes.
It came down to calories. Not the shot . once I truly was ready to give up the excuses, I was able to lose weight.
There Will always be people who enjoy having an excuse. They really don't want it. I was once one of those people so I know all about it.
Its often very hard for people to let go off the myths and excuses. Weight loss will always come down to calories . some will have to work a little harder then others but it still comes down to calories .
So if the depo pill is not supposed to be blamed even though it MAY cause an increase in appetite???
I was breastfeeding yet I blew up like crazy even more than my pregnancy weight.
So if depo may cause an increased appetite, does that mean the person MUST CONSUME more ? Or could the person on the depo decide to not over eat?
For me once I learned that the weight gain wasn't actually from the shot itself but from eating at a calorie surplus , I decided to no longer over eat. Instead I resisted those cravings and learned other ways to control my appetite.
I found eating a well balanced diet and plenty of physical activity worked for me. I kept my goals in mind always and decided not to overeat on depo any more. I lost all my weight and kept it off by being mindful of my calories
( depo is a shot ,not a pill so clearly you have not done your research . ) also, do you feel its hard for one to gain weight while breastfeeding? All that's needed is a calorie surplus ( breastfeeding or not)0 -
thorsmom01 wrote: »mysteps2beauty wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »Great thread carol !
I have nothing to add as far as medical conditions but would like to mention prescription medicine .
When I was first starting out, I went to the doctor and said " my depo birth control shot is causing me not to lose weight !"
He said, that's actually a myth. Google the words" birth control and weight gain" , you'll see thousands saying the same thing but its only because that's how misunderstood people are. He explained that it can cause an increased appetite , thus causing people to eat at a surplus and gain weight. But people like to leave out the surplus part and go straight to the weight gain part . if you ask 100 girls did they gain weight on depo, 75 will say yes and zero will admit to overeating. So that's how the " weight gain from depo " thing goes.
It came down to calories. Not the shot . once I truly was ready to give up the excuses, I was able to lose weight.
There Will always be people who enjoy having an excuse. They really don't want it. I was once one of those people so I know all about it.
Its often very hard for people to let go off the myths and excuses. Weight loss will always come down to calories . some will have to work a little harder then others but it still comes down to calories .
So if the depo pill is not supposed to be blamed even though it MAY cause an increase in appetite???
I was breastfeeding yet I blew up like crazy even more than my pregnancy weight.
So if depo may cause an increased appetite, does that mean the person MUST CONSUME more ? Or could the person on the depo decide to not over eat?
For me once I learned that the weight gain wasn't actually from the shot itself but from eating at a calorie surplus , I decided to no longer over eat. Instead I resisted those cravings and learned other ways to control my appetite.
I found eating a well balanced diet and plenty of physical activity worked for me. I kept my goals in mind always and decided not to overeat on depo any more. I lost all my weight and kept it off by being mindful of my calories
( depo is a shot ,not a pill so clearly you have not done your research . ) also, do you feel its hard for one to gain weight while breastfeeding? All that's needed is a calorie surplus ( breastfeeding or not)
To be fair, "breastfeeding will help you lose the pregnancy weight!" is a common refrain of the pro-breastfeeding crew. The problem is that they don't clarify it's because you're burning an extra 200-400 calories per day breastfeeding than just normally. So it gives young mothers the impression that any weight gain that happens during breastfeeding is somehow attributable to something other than a calorie surplus. They don't temper that statement with "breastfeeding will help you lose the pregnancy weight IF you eat the exact same amount you ate before you got pregnant while doing it..." You're not wrong, I just get why she has this impression and sympathize. After all, I lost 48 lbs from the day I gave birth to the day I quit breastfeeding, but it hadn't anything to do with stuff outside of CICO, I just wasn't aware at the time and attributed it to the breastfeeding being magical. (It was a magical experience, sure, but not a magical diet pill either)0 -
CoffeeNCardio wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »mysteps2beauty wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »Great thread carol !
I have nothing to add as far as medical conditions but would like to mention prescription medicine .
When I was first starting out, I went to the doctor and said " my depo birth control shot is causing me not to lose weight !"
He said, that's actually a myth. Google the words" birth control and weight gain" , you'll see thousands saying the same thing but its only because that's how misunderstood people are. He explained that it can cause an increased appetite , thus causing people to eat at a surplus and gain weight. But people like to leave out the surplus part and go straight to the weight gain part . if you ask 100 girls did they gain weight on depo, 75 will say yes and zero will admit to overeating. So that's how the " weight gain from depo " thing goes.
It came down to calories. Not the shot . once I truly was ready to give up the excuses, I was able to lose weight.
There Will always be people who enjoy having an excuse. They really don't want it. I was once one of those people so I know all about it.
Its often very hard for people to let go off the myths and excuses. Weight loss will always come down to calories . some will have to work a little harder then others but it still comes down to calories .
So if the depo pill is not supposed to be blamed even though it MAY cause an increase in appetite???
I was breastfeeding yet I blew up like crazy even more than my pregnancy weight.
So if depo may cause an increased appetite, does that mean the person MUST CONSUME more ? Or could the person on the depo decide to not over eat?
For me once I learned that the weight gain wasn't actually from the shot itself but from eating at a calorie surplus , I decided to no longer over eat. Instead I resisted those cravings and learned other ways to control my appetite.
I found eating a well balanced diet and plenty of physical activity worked for me. I kept my goals in mind always and decided not to overeat on depo any more. I lost all my weight and kept it off by being mindful of my calories
( depo is a shot ,not a pill so clearly you have not done your research . ) also, do you feel its hard for one to gain weight while breastfeeding? All that's needed is a calorie surplus ( breastfeeding or not)
To be fair, "breastfeeding will help you lose the pregnancy weight!" is a common refrain of the pro-breastfeeding crew. The problem is that they don't clarify it's because you're burning an extra 200-400 calories per day breastfeeding than just normally. So it gives young mothers the impression that any weight gain that happens during breastfeeding is somehow attributable to something other than a calorie surplus. They don't temper that statement with "breastfeeding will help you lose the pregnancy weight IF you eat the exact same amount you ate before you got pregnant while doing it..." You're not wrong, I just get why she has this impression and sympathize. After all, I lost 48 lbs from the day I gave birth to the day I quit breastfeeding, but it hadn't anything to do with stuff outside of CICO, I just wasn't aware at the time and attributed it to the breastfeeding being magical. (It was a magical experience, sure, but not a magical diet pill either)
I know and that's exactly why I asked the question. I was going to point out the same thing .0 -
CoffeeNCardio wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »CoffeeNCardio wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
But isn't it really TDEE - deficit(weekly loss goal dependent) + exercise? Hence the choice you have to make when you pick activity level? Otherwise, most everyone would be set at the same # wouldn't they? I can't imagine we're all at 1200 calorie limits... (yes, I'm really asking the question, not an attempt to disagree)
No. First, TDEE includes exercise already, so you wouldn't add it again. Second, the example I've provided (and there may be more that I'm not aware of) falls outside of the idea of eating less than TDEE.
Since you mention it, TDEE is how MFP users usually define CO.
But if I'm set at sedentary, with a TDEE of 1691, doesn't that negate the exercise thing? Cause sedentary doesn't account for any exercise right? So any exercise I did on top of that would have to be counted right? Thus TDEE-deficit%+exercise?
TDEE is an acronym for Total Daily Energy Expenditure. Simply explained, it is resting metabolic rate (RMR) + exercise. Your TDEE will vary from day to day. MFP uses your inputs (gender, height, weight, and activity level) to estimate your TDEE. That doesn't mean it is your actual TDEE; it is but an estimate.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »First let me say I know this can be a delicate topic, so I'd really hope to keep this discussion as civil as possible.
For example, I have hypothyroidism, but I know that undiagnosed hypothyroidism is only responsible for a slowed metabolism which accounts for a minor weight gain. Overall caloric intake will ultimately determine how much weight is gained before diagnosis.
Some people with conditions which account for only minor metabolic slow downs gain a lot of weight and it's frustrating for them, so that's why I'd like the discussion to tread lightly.
With that in mind...
A lot of medical issues/medications effect weight and are mentioned on the boards frequently. But there are a lot of misunderstandings and misconceptions surrounding them and their ultimate impact on weight loss.
I know we have members of the medical and scientific communities among us, I'm hoping they weigh in on this thread with some real knowledge to get information out there.
I should mention that this thread is for conditions which impact weight in any way, including those which include rapid weight loss.
For example, I have celiac disease. When it reached a crisis point before diagnosis, I lost 30 pounds in 2 months due to malabsorption issues. It was not a pleasant experience, I literally was not fully digesting food or liquid and was constantly dehydrated. My body turned to its fat stores for energy. At the time, I had a starting weigh of 160 pounds.
So, weigh in (see what I did there?) with your experiences and expertise so we can, together, separate fact from fiction!
[Edited at OP request]
The problem with weight loss for me is determining what exactly is my CICO. MFP & every other website, that I've come across; is calculated according to the average person instead of an individual. It doesn't include disabilities, medications, etc., which would alter someone's CICO beyond height, weight, common sedentary levels, etc. For instance when my disability makes me sleep for 20 hours, in a day or leaves me bedridden from weakness, for a day; obviously I am going to require less calories than someone whom spends most of their day sitting & conscious or when I don't defecate for 3 weeks but yet am not suffering from constipation either.0 -
thorsmom01 wrote: »Great thread carol !
I have nothing to add as far as medical conditions but would like to mention prescription medicine .
When I was first starting out, I went to the doctor and said " my depo birth control shot is causing me not to lose weight !"
He said, that's actually a myth. Google the words" birth control and weight gain" , you'll see thousands saying the same thing but its only because that's how misunderstood people are. He explained that it can cause an increased appetite , thus causing people to eat at a surplus and gain weight. But people like to leave out the surplus part and go straight to the weight gain part . if you ask 100 girls did they gain weight on depo, 75 will say yes and zero will admit to overeating. So that's how the " weight gain from depo " thing goes.
It came down to calories. Not the shot . once I truly was ready to give up the excuses, I was able to lose weight.
There Will always be people who enjoy having an excuse. They really don't want it. I was once one of those people so I know all about it.
Its often very hard for people to let go off the myths and excuses. Weight loss will always come down to calories . some will have to work a little harder then others but it still comes down to calories .
I believe that until an uneducated person is taught that their belief (a myth) is incorrect, that it's a reason. I believe that an excuse is when an educated person knows what's correct but chooses to be lazy.0 -
MondayJune22nd2015 wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »Great thread carol !
I have nothing to add as far as medical conditions but would like to mention prescription medicine .
When I was first starting out, I went to the doctor and said " my depo birth control shot is causing me not to lose weight !"
He said, that's actually a myth. Google the words" birth control and weight gain" , you'll see thousands saying the same thing but its only because that's how misunderstood people are. He explained that it can cause an increased appetite , thus causing people to eat at a surplus and gain weight. But people like to leave out the surplus part and go straight to the weight gain part . if you ask 100 girls did they gain weight on depo, 75 will say yes and zero will admit to overeating. So that's how the " weight gain from depo " thing goes.
It came down to calories. Not the shot . once I truly was ready to give up the excuses, I was able to lose weight.
There Will always be people who enjoy having an excuse. They really don't want it. I was once one of those people so I know all about it.
Its often very hard for people to let go off the myths and excuses. Weight loss will always come down to calories . some will have to work a little harder then others but it still comes down to calories .
I believe that until an uneducated person is taught that their belief (a myth) is incorrect, that it's a reason. I believe that an excuse is when an educated person knows what's correct but chooses to be lazy.
Well I happen to agree and will add that there is plenty of both around.
For me, I knew deep down inside that I was overeating. But sooooo many girls kept saying " I cant lose weight because of the depo( its a shot not a pill ) " so I went with that. If so many people keep saying it, it must be correct ?! Right ?!? NO ! So for me , it was a combination of both ignorance and excuse.
Luckily I was able to learn about calories and let go of my excuses.
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thorsmom01 wrote: »CoffeeNCardio wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »mysteps2beauty wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »Great thread carol !
I have nothing to add as far as medical conditions but would like to mention prescription medicine .
When I was first starting out, I went to the doctor and said " my depo birth control shot is causing me not to lose weight !"
He said, that's actually a myth. Google the words" birth control and weight gain" , you'll see thousands saying the same thing but its only because that's how misunderstood people are. He explained that it can cause an increased appetite , thus causing people to eat at a surplus and gain weight. But people like to leave out the surplus part and go straight to the weight gain part . if you ask 100 girls did they gain weight on depo, 75 will say yes and zero will admit to overeating. So that's how the " weight gain from depo " thing goes.
It came down to calories. Not the shot . once I truly was ready to give up the excuses, I was able to lose weight.
There Will always be people who enjoy having an excuse. They really don't want it. I was once one of those people so I know all about it.
Its often very hard for people to let go off the myths and excuses. Weight loss will always come down to calories . some will have to work a little harder then others but it still comes down to calories .
So if the depo pill is not supposed to be blamed even though it MAY cause an increase in appetite???
I was breastfeeding yet I blew up like crazy even more than my pregnancy weight.
So if depo may cause an increased appetite, does that mean the person MUST CONSUME more ? Or could the person on the depo decide to not over eat?
For me once I learned that the weight gain wasn't actually from the shot itself but from eating at a calorie surplus , I decided to no longer over eat. Instead I resisted those cravings and learned other ways to control my appetite.
I found eating a well balanced diet and plenty of physical activity worked for me. I kept my goals in mind always and decided not to overeat on depo any more. I lost all my weight and kept it off by being mindful of my calories
( depo is a shot ,not a pill so clearly you have not done your research . ) also, do you feel its hard for one to gain weight while breastfeeding? All that's needed is a calorie surplus ( breastfeeding or not)
To be fair, "breastfeeding will help you lose the pregnancy weight!" is a common refrain of the pro-breastfeeding crew. The problem is that they don't clarify it's because you're burning an extra 200-400 calories per day breastfeeding than just normally. So it gives young mothers the impression that any weight gain that happens during breastfeeding is somehow attributable to something other than a calorie surplus. They don't temper that statement with "breastfeeding will help you lose the pregnancy weight IF you eat the exact same amount you ate before you got pregnant while doing it..." You're not wrong, I just get why she has this impression and sympathize. After all, I lost 48 lbs from the day I gave birth to the day I quit breastfeeding, but it hadn't anything to do with stuff outside of CICO, I just wasn't aware at the time and attributed it to the breastfeeding being magical. (It was a magical experience, sure, but not a magical diet pill either)
I know and that's exactly why I asked the question. I was going to point out the same thing .
Yeah no I wasn't disagreeing, just... continuing the convo I guess. We're on the same page as far as all that is concerned0 -
CoffeeNCardio wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »CoffeeNCardio wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »mysteps2beauty wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »Great thread carol !
I have nothing to add as far as medical conditions but would like to mention prescription medicine .
When I was first starting out, I went to the doctor and said " my depo birth control shot is causing me not to lose weight !"
He said, that's actually a myth. Google the words" birth control and weight gain" , you'll see thousands saying the same thing but its only because that's how misunderstood people are. He explained that it can cause an increased appetite , thus causing people to eat at a surplus and gain weight. But people like to leave out the surplus part and go straight to the weight gain part . if you ask 100 girls did they gain weight on depo, 75 will say yes and zero will admit to overeating. So that's how the " weight gain from depo " thing goes.
It came down to calories. Not the shot . once I truly was ready to give up the excuses, I was able to lose weight.
There Will always be people who enjoy having an excuse. They really don't want it. I was once one of those people so I know all about it.
Its often very hard for people to let go off the myths and excuses. Weight loss will always come down to calories . some will have to work a little harder then others but it still comes down to calories .
So if the depo pill is not supposed to be blamed even though it MAY cause an increase in appetite???
I was breastfeeding yet I blew up like crazy even more than my pregnancy weight.
So if depo may cause an increased appetite, does that mean the person MUST CONSUME more ? Or could the person on the depo decide to not over eat?
For me once I learned that the weight gain wasn't actually from the shot itself but from eating at a calorie surplus , I decided to no longer over eat. Instead I resisted those cravings and learned other ways to control my appetite.
I found eating a well balanced diet and plenty of physical activity worked for me. I kept my goals in mind always and decided not to overeat on depo any more. I lost all my weight and kept it off by being mindful of my calories
( depo is a shot ,not a pill so clearly you have not done your research . ) also, do you feel its hard for one to gain weight while breastfeeding? All that's needed is a calorie surplus ( breastfeeding or not)
To be fair, "breastfeeding will help you lose the pregnancy weight!" is a common refrain of the pro-breastfeeding crew. The problem is that they don't clarify it's because you're burning an extra 200-400 calories per day breastfeeding than just normally. So it gives young mothers the impression that any weight gain that happens during breastfeeding is somehow attributable to something other than a calorie surplus. They don't temper that statement with "breastfeeding will help you lose the pregnancy weight IF you eat the exact same amount you ate before you got pregnant while doing it..." You're not wrong, I just get why she has this impression and sympathize. After all, I lost 48 lbs from the day I gave birth to the day I quit breastfeeding, but it hadn't anything to do with stuff outside of CICO, I just wasn't aware at the time and attributed it to the breastfeeding being magical. (It was a magical experience, sure, but not a magical diet pill either)
I know and that's exactly why I asked the question. I was going to point out the same thing .
Yeah no I wasn't disagreeing, just... continuing the convo I guess. We're on the same page as far as all that is concerned
Absolutely
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MondayJune22nd2015 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »First let me say I know this can be a delicate topic, so I'd really hope to keep this discussion as civil as possible.
For example, I have hypothyroidism, but I know that undiagnosed hypothyroidism is only responsible for a slowed metabolism which accounts for a minor weight gain. Overall caloric intake will ultimately determine how much weight is gained before diagnosis.
Some people with conditions which account for only minor metabolic slow downs gain a lot of weight and it's frustrating for them, so that's why I'd like the discussion to tread lightly.
With that in mind...
A lot of medical issues/medications effect weight and are mentioned on the boards frequently. But there are a lot of misunderstandings and misconceptions surrounding them and their ultimate impact on weight loss.
I know we have members of the medical and scientific communities among us, I'm hoping they weigh in on this thread with some real knowledge to get information out there.
I should mention that this thread is for conditions which impact weight in any way, including those which include rapid weight loss.
For example, I have celiac disease. When it reached a crisis point before diagnosis, I lost 30 pounds in 2 months due to malabsorption issues. It was not a pleasant experience, I literally was not fully digesting food or liquid and was constantly dehydrated. My body turned to its fat stores for energy. At the time, I had a starting weigh of 160 pounds.
So, weigh in (see what I did there?) with your experiences and expertise so we can, together, separate fact from fiction!
[Edited at OP request]
The problem with weight loss for me is determining what exactly is my CICO. MFP & every other website, that I've come across; is calculated according to the average person instead of an individual. It doesn't include disabilities, medications, etc., which would alter someone's CICO beyond height, weight, common sedentary levels, etc. For instance when my disability makes me sleep for 20 hours, in a day or leaves me bedridden from weakness, for a day; obviously I am going to require less calories than someone whom spends most of their day sitting & conscious or when I don't defecate for 3 weeks but yet am not suffering from constipation either.
Do you think a tracker like a hrm or fitbit would help you determine this ? I know they can't possibly predict how much excess your body is holding( you mentioned not having a BM for three weeks . so I know a tracker can't possibly help with that part ) but maybe it could help point you towards the right number.
I don't use one, but many people love fitbits. They have a group on here, and say how much they like them. One girl explained how she would be super active one day and then lay in bed for a couple days after and her fitbit helped her gauge how many calories she should be eating since her activity level was not consistent. Again, I don't have one. Just thought of mentioning it after reading your post.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »Cortisol can have an impact on weight for sure. One reason I think a lot of people don't gain as much weight as they might expect on a vacation is because they lowered their cortisol levels by being relaxed.
One of the reasons it's suggested to take breaks from eating at a deficit is that long term dieting is itself a stressor. I think I might be coming to this point myself.
In addition to cortisol, they might have also increased their activity level, by spending a day at the beach (several hours), swimming, walking, etc., instead of just their typical (1 hour) of daily exercise; of swimming at the gym or walking around their neighborhood or even was busy enjoying something sedentary, to not become bored enough to eat; like they might have otherwise.
I have definitely hit a road block with my weight loss, even though my (known) stress causes haven't increased; in fact they've decreased but I hadn't considered the potential of a deficit stress but it makes sense, since we are subsisting on less; than what's usually optimal. @PeachyCarol so how long do you suppose a break from a deficit, should be? I believe 2 weeks would be sufficient, for me. When returning to one's deficit level, do you think that'd be considered as starting over? Even though one would be technically starting, where they left off; as in no weight gain within that break period & because there'd be no weight gain, do you believe that it's likely that when they restart, that it'd be like a typical 1st week when most initially began? Such as losing pounds of water weight or do you think that it'd just revert to being within the average fat loss, that was taking place; before the deficit break?0 -
thorsmom01 wrote: »MondayJune22nd2015 wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »Great thread carol !
I have nothing to add as far as medical conditions but would like to mention prescription medicine .
When I was first starting out, I went to the doctor and said " my depo birth control shot is causing me not to lose weight !"
He said, that's actually a myth. Google the words" birth control and weight gain" , you'll see thousands saying the same thing but its only because that's how misunderstood people are. He explained that it can cause an increased appetite , thus causing people to eat at a surplus and gain weight. But people like to leave out the surplus part and go straight to the weight gain part . if you ask 100 girls did they gain weight on depo, 75 will say yes and zero will admit to overeating. So that's how the " weight gain from depo " thing goes.
It came down to calories. Not the shot . once I truly was ready to give up the excuses, I was able to lose weight.
There Will always be people who enjoy having an excuse. They really don't want it. I was once one of those people so I know all about it.
Its often very hard for people to let go off the myths and excuses. Weight loss will always come down to calories . some will have to work a little harder then others but it still comes down to calories .
I believe that until an uneducated person is taught that their belief (a myth) is incorrect, that it's a reason. I believe that an excuse is when an educated person knows what's correct but chooses to be lazy.
For me, I knew deep down inside that I was overeating.
Luckily I was able to learn about calories and let go of my excuses.
Here's why I don't believe that it was an excuse for you but a reason, despite what you felt because our instincts make us believe that we need food, when we feel hungry; even though obviously you always didn't.0 -
CoffeeNCardio wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »CoffeeNCardio wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
But isn't it really TDEE - deficit(weekly loss goal dependent) + exercise? Hence the choice you have to make when you pick activity level? Otherwise, most everyone would be set at the same # wouldn't they? I can't imagine we're all at 1200 calorie limits... (yes, I'm really asking the question, not an attempt to disagree)
No. First, TDEE includes exercise already, so you wouldn't add it again. Second, the example I've provided (and there may be more that I'm not aware of) falls outside of the idea of eating less than TDEE.
Since you mention it, TDEE is how MFP users usually define CO.
But if I'm set at sedentary, with a TDEE of 1691, doesn't that negate the exercise thing? Cause sedentary doesn't account for any exercise right? So any exercise I did on top of that would have to be counted right? Thus TDEE-deficit%+exercise?
Technically, if you're adding in exercise separately from activity level, MFP is not calculating TDEE, it's calculating BMR + NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis).
Basically:
BMR - amount of calories you'd burn in a coma
NEAT - extra calories you burn on everything that isn't deliberate exercise (i.e. the extra calories above BMR you burn just living life)
Exercise - extra calories you burn on deliberate exercise.
TDEE, by definition, is BMR + NEAT + exercise, it's the cumulative of all of your calories you expend, period. Some people use MFP in what they call "TDEE method", where they factor all their exercise into their activity level and don't actually log exercise calories, others use the "NEAT + exercise" method, where their activity level is really estimating BMR + NEAT, and they manually add exercise, etc.0 -
thorsmom01 wrote: »MondayJune22nd2015 wrote: »PeachyCarol wrote: »First let me say I know this can be a delicate topic, so I'd really hope to keep this discussion as civil as possible.
For example, I have hypothyroidism, but I know that undiagnosed hypothyroidism is only responsible for a slowed metabolism which accounts for a minor weight gain. Overall caloric intake will ultimately determine how much weight is gained before diagnosis.
Some people with conditions which account for only minor metabolic slow downs gain a lot of weight and it's frustrating for them, so that's why I'd like the discussion to tread lightly.
With that in mind...
A lot of medical issues/medications effect weight and are mentioned on the boards frequently. But there are a lot of misunderstandings and misconceptions surrounding them and their ultimate impact on weight loss.
I know we have members of the medical and scientific communities among us, I'm hoping they weigh in on this thread with some real knowledge to get information out there.
I should mention that this thread is for conditions which impact weight in any way, including those which include rapid weight loss.
For example, I have celiac disease. When it reached a crisis point before diagnosis, I lost 30 pounds in 2 months due to malabsorption issues. It was not a pleasant experience, I literally was not fully digesting food or liquid and was constantly dehydrated. My body turned to its fat stores for energy. At the time, I had a starting weigh of 160 pounds.
So, weigh in (see what I did there?) with your experiences and expertise so we can, together, separate fact from fiction!
[Edited at OP request]
The problem with weight loss for me is determining what exactly is my CICO. MFP & every other website, that I've come across; is calculated according to the average person instead of an individual. It doesn't include disabilities, medications, etc., which would alter someone's CICO beyond height, weight, common sedentary levels, etc. For instance when my disability makes me sleep for 20 hours, in a day or leaves me bedridden from weakness, for a day; obviously I am going to require less calories than someone whom spends most of their day sitting & conscious or when I don't defecate for 3 weeks but yet am not suffering from constipation either.
Do you think a tracker like a hrm or fitbit would help you determine this ? I know they can't possibly predict how much excess your body is holding( you mentioned not having a BM for three weeks . so I know a tracker can't possibly help with that part ) but maybe it could help point you towards the right number.
I don't use one, but many people love fitbits. They have a group on here, and say how much they like them. One girl explained how she would be super active one day and then lay in bed for a couple days after and her fitbit helped her gauge how many calories she should be eating since her activity level was not consistent. Again, I don't have one. Just thought of mentioning it after reading your post.
I'll definitely look into it, hopefully it'll help gauge even a minimal; individualized benefit.0 -
MondayJune22nd2015 wrote: »The problem with weight loss for me is determining what exactly is my CICO. MFP & every other website, that I've come across; is calculated according to the average person instead of an individual. It doesn't include disabilities, medications, etc., which would alter someone's CICO beyond height, weight, common sedentary levels, etc. For instance when my disability makes me sleep for 20 hours, in a day or leaves me bedridden from weakness, for a day; obviously I am going to require less calories than someone whom spends most of their day sitting & conscious or when I don't defecate for 3 weeks but yet am not suffering from constipation either.
There is a tool (Excel spreadsheet) that lets you measure your actual observed TDEE. You need accurate logs, regular weigh-ins (ideally daily), and a decent history on MFP, but it smooths your weight loss, looks to your calories eaten per day, and tries to estimate your actual calories burned. Essentially it calculates in reverse - given your observed calories and observed rate of loss, what must your TDEE be to get that rate of loss?
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/EvgeniZyntx/view/mfp-data-export-tool-the-overview-659927
I use that periodically to make sure I'm on track and adjust my intake, as I use a TDEE method rather than count exercise calories directly.0 -
rankinsect wrote: »MondayJune22nd2015 wrote: »The problem with weight loss for me is determining what exactly is my CICO. MFP & every other website, that I've come across; is calculated according to the average person instead of an individual. It doesn't include disabilities, medications, etc., which would alter someone's CICO beyond height, weight, common sedentary levels, etc. For instance when my disability makes me sleep for 20 hours, in a day or leaves me bedridden from weakness, for a day; obviously I am going to require less calories than someone whom spends most of their day sitting & conscious or when I don't defecate for 3 weeks but yet am not suffering from constipation either.
There is a tool (Excel spreadsheet) that lets you measure your actual observed TDEE. You need accurate logs, regular weigh-ins (ideally daily), and a decent history on MFP, but it smooths your weight loss, looks to your calories eaten per day, and tries to estimate your actual calories burned. Essentially it calculates in reverse - given your observed calories and observed rate of loss, what must your TDEE be to get that rate of loss?
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/EvgeniZyntx/view/mfp-data-export-tool-the-overview-659927
I use that periodically to make sure I'm on track and adjust my intake, as I use a TDEE method rather than count exercise calories directly.
Thank you!0 -
rankinsect wrote: »CoffeeNCardio wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »CoffeeNCardio wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »In any event, it would be like asking everyone to acknowledge that CICO is not absolute even after it's been proven to be flawed. As much as I can try, it isn't going to happen even when some argue that it is absolute because the flaw occurs in a minority of cases (which acknowledges the flaw while simultaneously denying it).
CICO isn't flawed. Medical conditions can either change CI or CO, but they can't change physics; the total amount of energy is remaining constant in the absence of any nuclear fission or fusion occurring in your body.
Ultimately, calories lost because of epithelial malabsorption, calories lost from glycosuria, proteinuria, or lipiduria, etc. are all "calories out", as it's energy-containing substances that leave the body.
"Calories out" is not exactly the same as "calories burned", although in most people it's quite close.
It depends on definition. Most posts I've seen mentioning CICO were based on the definition of CO being RMR + exercise. That seems to be the consensus on the MFP forums.
But isn't it really TDEE - deficit(weekly loss goal dependent) + exercise? Hence the choice you have to make when you pick activity level? Otherwise, most everyone would be set at the same # wouldn't they? I can't imagine we're all at 1200 calorie limits... (yes, I'm really asking the question, not an attempt to disagree)
No. First, TDEE includes exercise already, so you wouldn't add it again. Second, the example I've provided (and there may be more that I'm not aware of) falls outside of the idea of eating less than TDEE.
Since you mention it, TDEE is how MFP users usually define CO.
But if I'm set at sedentary, with a TDEE of 1691, doesn't that negate the exercise thing? Cause sedentary doesn't account for any exercise right? So any exercise I did on top of that would have to be counted right? Thus TDEE-deficit%+exercise?
Technically, if you're adding in exercise separately from activity level, MFP is not calculating TDEE, it's calculating BMR + NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis).
Basically:
BMR - amount of calories you'd burn in a coma
NEAT - extra calories you burn on everything that isn't deliberate exercise (i.e. the extra calories above BMR you burn just living life)
Exercise - extra calories you burn on deliberate exercise.
TDEE, by definition, is BMR + NEAT + exercise, it's the cumulative of all of your calories you expend, period. Some people use MFP in what they call "TDEE method", where they factor all their exercise into their activity level and don't actually log exercise calories, others use the "NEAT + exercise" method, where their activity level is really estimating BMR + NEAT, and they manually add exercise, etc.
Thank you! This was very informative and helpful! That's how I've been going about it (NEAT+BMR with added exercise, which I eat back in part or full because I'm set at 1200 and want to be safe), and it's worked great so far!0
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