The deal on sugar
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
At the risk of interrupting your rant, where did I say a person needs a good reason to choose to just cut out sugar? Your entire position is based on flailing against something that wasn't even said.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »This was the third comment. Previous 2 were not negative or judgemental in any way.
A judgement that a person needs a good reason to choose to just cut sugar (we aren't even talking eliminating it or going low carb) or it could be perceived as derpy and then goes on to say that it's an issue "when people start telling others what they should or shouldn't eat".DeguelloTex wrote: »I don't cut sugar.
If someone wants to cut sugar, I think it would be ideal if it were done for a cogent reason. Even if it's done because of a derpy Facebook inforgraphic or a laughably bad "documentary," though, that's his call. The issue, imo, is when people start telling others what they should or shouldn't eat.
This is blatantly instigating.
Instigating of what, exactly?
I honestly can not see how this is "instigating". You made a reference to two different types of Low-Carb groups that DO exist. There are the crazy ones that read an article in Woman's Day and saw a post on Pinterest, and decided to watch Fed Up. Those are the quacks...and they are out there. Of course you have the educated low carbers as well. Why that would be considered instigating, I don't know?
I do know it's never considered instigating when the shoe is on the other foot and we have low carbers saying that moderation means junk all day. Do those people exist? Absolutely, but that is not what the majority of this site stands for.
It's pretty similar really.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Is this unique to consumed carbs, or are unused/excess calories, in general, stored as fat?Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »You all do realize that glucose, if not used or stored as glycogen, is then stored as fat, right?
No. It's not unique to consumed carbs. We were discussing the preference of the body to use glucose before fat. The idea I thought would be understood is that with glucose being such an easy, quick energy source, the body will naturally want to use it. It's like lazy fuel. Before it resorts to the extra effort of breaking down fat, it will use as much of the glucose as possible. When glucose isn't needed for anything else, the leftover becomes fat. It's not going to ever be that easy, quick energy source again. The body will naturally take the path of least resistance.
Fats are used in other ways in the body besides energy, so before the extra gets stored, it has a little more to be spent on.
Of course, excess calories that are not immediately needed will always be stored as fat. I never suggested otherwise.
Interesting choice of words.
If I had bread that was going to go bad (perhaps I had been trying low carb, eh?) and I decided to use it up first before my can of spam that expires 5 years after my post mortem, would that be lazy fuel, or would someone normally use a term with more positive connotations, like prudent? Thrifty? Efficient? Efficient is surely the word I'd used describing metabolic processes and why ones are preferential.
If to you the word lazy aptly describes using glucose as the first available fuel, you might want to consider then that the idea of biology evolution is laziness. All of biology looks to accomplish the most for the least energy, within the limits of finding efficiencies that don't require complete redesigns.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Is this unique to consumed carbs, or are unused/excess calories, in general, stored as fat?Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »You all do realize that glucose, if not used or stored as glycogen, is then stored as fat, right?
No. It's not unique to consumed carbs. We were discussing the preference of the body to use glucose before fat. The idea I thought would be understood is that with glucose being such an easy, quick energy source, the body will naturally want to use it. It's like lazy fuel. Before it resorts to the extra effort of breaking down fat, it will use as much of the glucose as possible. When glucose isn't needed for anything else, the leftover becomes fat. It's not going to ever be that easy, quick energy source again. The body will naturally take the path of least resistance.
Fats are used in other ways in the body besides energy, so before the extra gets stored, it has a little more to be spent on.
Of course, excess calories that are not immediately needed will always be stored as fat. I never suggested otherwise.
Interesting choice of words.
If I had bread that was going to go bad (perhaps I had been trying low carb, eh?) and I decided to use it up first before my can of spam that expires 5 years after my post mortem, would that be lazy fuel, or would someone normally use a term with more positive connotations, like prudent? Thrifty? Efficient? Efficient is surely the word I'd used describing metabolic processes and why ones are preferential.
If to you the word lazy aptly describes using glucose as the first available fuel, you might want to consider then that the idea of biology evolution is laziness. All of biology looks to accomplish the most for the least energy, within the limits of finding efficiencies that don't require complete redesigns.
Well put.0 -
I was coming to make a comment about "lazy" fuel and why it's bad. I eat, my body uses it.
Otherwise I am completely and totally lost.
As you were.0 -
this thread has it all
drama
intrigue
madey-up stuff
just need a few monkey butlers and all will be complete0 -
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
Is this unique to consumed carbs, or are unused/excess calories, in general, stored as fat?Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »You all do realize that glucose, if not used or stored as glycogen, is then stored as fat, right?
Calories in general are a concept not a physical thing you can track in the body. Protein is either incorporated into tissue or oxidised for energy, alcohol is oxidised for energy - as neither of these can be stored.
Carbs are oxidised preferentially (to reduce blood glucose), excess are stored as glycogen, persistent high excess will result in conversion to fat.
Fats are oxidised or stored, there's flux in & out of storage all the time. Bringing excess into the system above what is oxidsed results in more storage.0 -
So, no, this isn't a concept unique to excess carbs or glucose.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Is this unique to consumed carbs, or are unused/excess calories, in general, stored as fat?Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »You all do realize that glucose, if not used or stored as glycogen, is then stored as fat, right?
Calories in general are a concept not a physical thing you can track in the body. Protein is either incorporated into tissue or oxidised for energy, alcohol is oxidised for energy - as neither of these can be stored.
Carbs are oxidised preferentially (to reduce blood glucose), excess are stored as glycogen, persistent high excess will result in conversion to fat.
Fats are oxidised or stored, there's flux in & out of storage all the time. Bringing excess into the system above what is oxidsed results in more storage.0 -
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
So, no, this isn't a concept unique to excess carbs or glucose.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Is this unique to consumed carbs, or are unused/excess calories, in general, stored as fat?Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »You all do realize that glucose, if not used or stored as glycogen, is then stored as fat, right?
Calories in general are a concept not a physical thing you can track in the body. Protein is either incorporated into tissue or oxidised for energy, alcohol is oxidised for energy - as neither of these can be stored.
Carbs are oxidised preferentially (to reduce blood glucose), excess are stored as glycogen, persistent high excess will result in conversion to fat.
Fats are oxidised or stored, there's flux in & out of storage all the time. Bringing excess into the system above what is oxidsed results in more storage.
Indeed, both fat and glucose are stored in humans (much more of the former). There is a subtle difference in that ingested carbs reduces the oxidation of fat whereas ingested fats doesn't do the opposite, so eating carbs affects the fat balance & storage a lot whereas eating fat doesn't do much / anything to the carb balance & storage.0 -
Maybe you can't store alcohol...DeguelloTex wrote: »
Is this unique to consumed carbs, or are unused/excess calories, in general, stored as fat?Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »You all do realize that glucose, if not used or stored as glycogen, is then stored as fat, right?
Calories in general are a concept not a physical thing you can track in the body. Protein is either incorporated into tissue or oxidised for energy, alcohol is oxidised for energy - as neither of these can be stored.
Carbs are oxidised preferentially (to reduce blood glucose), excess are stored as glycogen, persistent high excess will result in conversion to fat.
Fats are oxidised or stored, there's flux in & out of storage all the time. Bringing excess into the system above what is oxidsed results in more storage.
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Looking into ketones as a treatment for Alzheimer's might be interesting for you, as a nursing student.
are these actually good for alzheimer's? came to comment on original post but saw this and got sidetracked. My grandpop has alzheimer's and dementia and we're always looking for something that might help him hang around with us a little longer.0 -
Your nursing program ought to go over the ethics of providing unfounded, unsupported, opinion-based advice to strangers while improperly claiming a position of professional authority.
Unless you left out a credential more relevant than "nursing major" you are unlicensed to practice and ought to refrain from providing "expert" opinion. When you're on a public forum like this, you would be well-advised to not frame your opinions "as a nursing major."0 -
brittanynicholexx wrote: »Looking into ketones as a treatment for Alzheimer's might be interesting for you, as a nursing student.
are these actually good for alzheimer's? came to comment on original post but saw this and got sidetracked. My grandpop has alzheimer's and dementia and we're always looking for something that might help him hang around with us a little longer.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4617363/0 -
Your nursing program ought to go over the ethics of providing unfounded, unsupported, opinion-based advice to strangers while improperly claiming a position of professional authority.
Unless you left out a credential more relevant than "nursing major" you are unlicensed to practice and ought to refrain from providing "expert" opinion. When you're on a public forum like this, you would be well-advised to not frame your opinions "as a nursing major."
Did OP ever come back?! I really can't be arsed to read through all this to find out!0 -
@senecarr - great new avatar! Way to go!0
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I deeply sympathize with the OP. If I were in her shoes I'd be halfway to Timbuktu by now.
I agree
Let's not forget that she is a student. It seems like poorly understood and poorly explained "you need carbs to be optimally healthy" advice that she is no doubt being taught at school.
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I deeply sympathize with the OP. If I were in her shoes I'd be halfway to Timbuktu by now.
I agree
Let's not forget that she is a student. It seems like poorly understood and poorly explained "you need carbs to be optimally healthy" advice that she is no doubt being taught at school.
It ain't easy to get into a quality nursing program. Assuming she is in a credentialed school, she has probably worked hard to get there, and is likely intelligent, excited about what she's learning, and eager to help people.
But she really needed the lesson: mind what you say! A nurse has a lot of responsibility to communicate well and clearly, and their words carry a lot of weight simply by the fact of their profession and assumed expertise.
There are good reasons that medical students and law students are prohibited from hanging out their shingle as a practitioner before they get licensed....0
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