Do you count the calories in fruits and vegtables?
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Yeah, that's a fluff piece put out by Lustig that MFP put on their blog because it is free content.
Lustig = instant fail. He's a crackpot who irrationally demonizes fructose as the root of all evils.
Here's an article by Alan Aragon (who is science-based and trustworthy) in which he disassembles Lustig's rhetoric: The Bitter Truth About Fructose Alarmism0 -
dee_thurman wrote: »https://blog.myfitnesspal.com/4-simple-reasons-why-all-calories-are-not-created-equal/
Many people have posted and not just here that all calories are the same. Check this article out...
The discussion in this thread seems to be about whether one loses the same eating 1300 calories or 1500 calories if the 200 additional calories are made up of vegetables. The fact is that one does not, and your link does not claim otherwise.
As I also said above, I think vegetables should be non-negotiable whether one is eating 1300 or 1500 (for health, not weight loss), and that if one needs to cut calories to lose one should not cut out (or way down on) vegetables. Again, as I said above, I would likely eat a greater percentage of vegetables at a lower calorie level as I might sub them for some more caloric carb-based foods.
However, if I were sedentary (happily for me I am not), my maintenance would be 1550. Therefore, if I were logging 1200 and eating an additional 200-300 calories of vegetables (which is certainly possible), I'd be almost wiping out my deficit. Better to know what I'm eating and to make a choice of how to get the 1200. (Or to understand that I'd be happier increasing my TDEE by being more active, of course.) The general POV of most of us here, I believe, is that more knowledge and understanding is better. The idea that one should label foods "good" and "bad" to simplify dietary choices often isn't helpful and it's certainly not as accurate as a real understanding of nutrition and of what one is eating.
Most significantly -- and why that blog post is intentionally misleading -- is that "a calorie is a calorie" has never been intended to mean "a food is a food." Of course foods differ, and there is no bigger advocate on this board for eating lots of vegetables than me, or some others in this thread. But that's for nutritional purposes, or because it helps many people with satiety. NOT because some calories cause weight gain when eaten in excess and others do not. Once you make sure they are measured correctly (i.e., not taking into account those we don't absorb), they are all equal. Foods aren't, but calories are. My body has no ability to know whether a particular calorie is from the turkey I ate yesterday (and therefore "good" and used for energy) or from the dessert (and therefore "bad" and goes to my waist). The idea that it distinguishes in that way between "calories" is basically an old wives' tale (as when my friend's mother used to tell her and me that cheese makes your butt too big).0 -
I find accurate weighing and logging to be a keystone of healthy dieting.
Fruit in particular should be known since it is +/- dilute sugar water.
OP: Add some exercise to your diet rather than trying to hide your caloric intake.0 -
This might be the silliest thread ever. Op, if you want to try it, just try it! Give it a few weeks of solid effort and then reexamine. Personally when I didn't count them, I didn't lose weight. Now I count everything and lose weight. I also use my logging to ensure I get enough fiber. When I see fiber is way too low, I am encouraged to reach for more healthy food.0
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700 g/day of (fruit and veg, excluding juice) is the upper 2.5 percentile for adults in the UK, with the median at 250 and the mean at 280. Enough calories to halve a calorie deficit so needs to be on the books.0
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dee_thurman wrote: »https://blog.myfitnesspal.com/4-simple-reasons-why-all-calories-are-not-created-equal/
Many people have posted and not just here that all calories are the same. Check this article out...
Dead wrong ...
All calories are equal from an energy standpoint; however, not all calories are the same nutritionally.0 -
I definitely count, and I eat a decent amount of fruit and veg.
I'd rather stay within my calorie goal. I could turn a blind eye to the calories from fruit and veg, but I'd only be cheating myself as I'd be adding an extra 400+ cals on top of my intake which would take me closer to maintenance.
Why the heck would I do that to myself? I not only stick to my caloric goals, I also stick to my macro and micro goals. Sticking to my caloric goal keeps me on track. As for fiber, grains and legumes are great, too.
I found this funny:
"What can't you believe?? The fact that people like me don't log veggies or fruit? Think about it for a moment.........
•Fact 90% of people DONT eat enough fruit and veggies
•Fact 90% of people don't reach minimum daily fibre intake
•Fact fibre makes you feel full
•People with diets low in fibre have trouble loosing weight
•Studies have shown that increasing a persons fibre from fruit and veggies without changing overall calorie intake can result in weight loss (so by just replacing some food with fibre rich fruit and veggies)"
This has nothing to do with not logging fruit/veg calories. You can eat your fruit and veg and log them, too. What you eat has nothing to do with what others eat.0 -
I am so jealous of those that can eat a pound of broccoli or cauliflower for a meal. No sarcasm. My digestive system would revolt for days. Not to hijack the thread but how do you get your stomach to cooperate?0
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WinoGelato wrote: »
Are the friends who are doing this also using MFP? Or another system, like WW? As others have said, WW allows for unlimited fruits and veggies (I think, I've never tried WW) but if you are using MFP it is really designed to track everything.KateQuattro wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I just found this thread and am confused at what I've read so far. Let me see if I've got this right...
OP it sounds like you are trying to figure out a way to "cheat" the system by looking for foods that you can eat in unlimited quantities without logging. As others have pointed out, whether you log them or not, the calories in them count. Are you averse to logging for some reason? I don't really understand why you would log some things and not others?
Also, I'm amused at advice being given to some of the successful people on MFP (one that is a vegetarian and one that is a vegan) that they are eating too many vegetables because their portion size requirements are skewed due to over consumption of processed foods?
Did I read that correctly?
I wouldn't say cheat but I suppose that's an accurate term, hahaha. A few people I know have had success with this method - for weight loss. So I thought I would vet the MFP community for their opinions. After which I agree that although fruits and vegetables are healthy, they should be logged and going over my calorie count a tad don't kill me. :P
The other thing I would suggest for you is to read the "Most Helpful" threads at the top of each forum section: getting started, food and nutrition, etc. There is a wealth of knowledge in those about how to best set up your goals in MFP, how to understand your TDEE and set a reasonable calorie deficit, how to log accurately, why you should eat back exercise cals, etc.
My standard advice, and I'm by no means an expert but I've been logging for over 1000 days consistently, achieved my 30 lb weight loss goal and am successfully maintaining, FWIW...
1. Have reasonable expectations for total pounds to lose and rate of loss (if aiming for 25-50 lbs it should be 1 lb/week, if under 25 lbs maybe 0.5 lb/week is more appropriate)
2. Enter those goals along with accurate stats into MFP to get an appropriate calorie deficit (1200 may be too low)
3. Log everything, using a food scale preferably for the most accuracy.
4. Eat primarily nutrient dense foods but leave room for foods you enjoy as treats or indulgences or what have you.
5. Exercise if you enjoy it, making sure you eat back at least a portion of your exercise calories.
6. Don't rely on quick fixes, gimmicks or tricks to get around the system. Eat the way you enjoy eating and can sustain forever.
7. Be patient.
WW does have a limit on the 0 point fruits and veggies (5-8 servings depending on an individual's stats). That's where people trip themselves up. They think "free" means "free for all" and the next thing you know they are complaining about not being able to lose. It was a pretty common topic on their discussion boards.
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WinoGelato wrote: »
Are the friends who are doing this also using MFP? Or another system, like WW? As others have said, WW allows for unlimited fruits and veggies (I think, I've never tried WW) but if you are using MFP it is really designed to track everything.KateQuattro wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I just found this thread and am confused at what I've read so far. Let me see if I've got this right...
OP it sounds like you are trying to figure out a way to "cheat" the system by looking for foods that you can eat in unlimited quantities without logging. As others have pointed out, whether you log them or not, the calories in them count. Are you averse to logging for some reason? I don't really understand why you would log some things and not others?
Also, I'm amused at advice being given to some of the successful people on MFP (one that is a vegetarian and one that is a vegan) that they are eating too many vegetables because their portion size requirements are skewed due to over consumption of processed foods?
Did I read that correctly?
I wouldn't say cheat but I suppose that's an accurate term, hahaha. A few people I know have had success with this method - for weight loss. So I thought I would vet the MFP community for their opinions. After which I agree that although fruits and vegetables are healthy, they should be logged and going over my calorie count a tad don't kill me. :P
The other thing I would suggest for you is to read the "Most Helpful" threads at the top of each forum section: getting started, food and nutrition, etc. There is a wealth of knowledge in those about how to best set up your goals in MFP, how to understand your TDEE and set a reasonable calorie deficit, how to log accurately, why you should eat back exercise cals, etc.
My standard advice, and I'm by no means an expert but I've been logging for over 1000 days consistently, achieved my 30 lb weight loss goal and am successfully maintaining, FWIW...
1. Have reasonable expectations for total pounds to lose and rate of loss (if aiming for 25-50 lbs it should be 1 lb/week, if under 25 lbs maybe 0.5 lb/week is more appropriate)
2. Enter those goals along with accurate stats into MFP to get an appropriate calorie deficit (1200 may be too low)
3. Log everything, using a food scale preferably for the most accuracy.
4. Eat primarily nutrient dense foods but leave room for foods you enjoy as treats or indulgences or what have you.
5. Exercise if you enjoy it, making sure you eat back at least a portion of your exercise calories.
6. Don't rely on quick fixes, gimmicks or tricks to get around the system. Eat the way you enjoy eating and can sustain forever.
7. Be patient.
WW does have a limit on the 0 point fruits and veggies (5-8 servings depending on an individual's stats). That's where people trip themselves up. They think "free" means "free for all" and the next thing you know they are complaining about not being able to lose. It was a pretty common topic on their discussion boards.
That still isn't a good way to go though as different fruits and vegs have very different calorie counts. Take for example, a serving of banana vs a serving of strawberries. Or a serving of avocado instead of a serving of broccoli0 -
blankiefinder wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »
Are the friends who are doing this also using MFP? Or another system, like WW? As others have said, WW allows for unlimited fruits and veggies (I think, I've never tried WW) but if you are using MFP it is really designed to track everything.KateQuattro wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I just found this thread and am confused at what I've read so far. Let me see if I've got this right...
OP it sounds like you are trying to figure out a way to "cheat" the system by looking for foods that you can eat in unlimited quantities without logging. As others have pointed out, whether you log them or not, the calories in them count. Are you averse to logging for some reason? I don't really understand why you would log some things and not others?
Also, I'm amused at advice being given to some of the successful people on MFP (one that is a vegetarian and one that is a vegan) that they are eating too many vegetables because their portion size requirements are skewed due to over consumption of processed foods?
Did I read that correctly?
I wouldn't say cheat but I suppose that's an accurate term, hahaha. A few people I know have had success with this method - for weight loss. So I thought I would vet the MFP community for their opinions. After which I agree that although fruits and vegetables are healthy, they should be logged and going over my calorie count a tad don't kill me. :P
The other thing I would suggest for you is to read the "Most Helpful" threads at the top of each forum section: getting started, food and nutrition, etc. There is a wealth of knowledge in those about how to best set up your goals in MFP, how to understand your TDEE and set a reasonable calorie deficit, how to log accurately, why you should eat back exercise cals, etc.
My standard advice, and I'm by no means an expert but I've been logging for over 1000 days consistently, achieved my 30 lb weight loss goal and am successfully maintaining, FWIW...
1. Have reasonable expectations for total pounds to lose and rate of loss (if aiming for 25-50 lbs it should be 1 lb/week, if under 25 lbs maybe 0.5 lb/week is more appropriate)
2. Enter those goals along with accurate stats into MFP to get an appropriate calorie deficit (1200 may be too low)
3. Log everything, using a food scale preferably for the most accuracy.
4. Eat primarily nutrient dense foods but leave room for foods you enjoy as treats or indulgences or what have you.
5. Exercise if you enjoy it, making sure you eat back at least a portion of your exercise calories.
6. Don't rely on quick fixes, gimmicks or tricks to get around the system. Eat the way you enjoy eating and can sustain forever.
7. Be patient.
WW does have a limit on the 0 point fruits and veggies (5-8 servings depending on an individual's stats). That's where people trip themselves up. They think "free" means "free for all" and the next thing you know they are complaining about not being able to lose. It was a pretty common topic on their discussion boards.
That still isn't a good way to go though as different fruits and vegs have very different calorie counts. Take for example, a serving of banana vs a serving of strawberries. Or a serving of avocado instead of a serving of broccoli
I agree, and bananas were often demonized for stalling weight loss.0 -
On the days that I log, yes, I do count fruits and vegetables.0
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I am so jealous of those that can eat a pound of broccoli or cauliflower for a meal. No sarcasm. My digestive system would revolt for days. Not to hijack the thread but how do you get your stomach to cooperate?
Is it the fiber that gives you problems? Increasing your fiber all at once can lead to discomfort, but if you increase it gradually and regularly eat it, many people adjust. I get about 40-50 grams a day most days.0 -
Also, mixing the macros helps everything go down easier. Eat that broccoli and cauliflower with a nice cheese sauce.0
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I am so jealous of those that can eat a pound of broccoli or cauliflower for a meal. No sarcasm. My digestive system would revolt for days. Not to hijack the thread but how do you get your stomach to cooperate?
I usually eat a more varied mix of veg at a specific meal, but eating that much broccoli or cauliflower in a day doesn't bother me at all. Part of it is likely just individual differences, but I recall when I started eating lots of veg again after a period in my 20s when I ate a lot less it caused some issues. It was just a matter of working up more gradually until the gut flora adapted, I think.0 -
If you have inflammatory bowel disease (not IBS) high fiber, veggies and fruit (among lots of other things) can be trigger foods and are very painful to eat. Spinach/lettuce and tomatoes are the worst.0
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I log vegetables to encourage me to eat more of them. I'm up to 100 grams of broccoli (weighed raw and then steamed), which seems like a lot, but am now motivated to up it further.0
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janejellyroll wrote: »I am so jealous of those that can eat a pound of broccoli or cauliflower for a meal. No sarcasm. My digestive system would revolt for days. Not to hijack the thread but how do you get your stomach to cooperate?
Is it the fiber that gives you problems? Increasing your fiber all at once can lead to discomfort, but if you increase it gradually and regularly eat it, many people adjust. I get about 40-50 grams a day most days.
I don't think it's necessarily the fiber, just certain types of veggies. Broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, and beans are the worst. I can be in severe pain for up to 3 days if I have these. Split peas and lentils are fine and other veggies (carrots, tomatoes, celery, lettuce). I wish I could eat beans every day. I love them!
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kshama2001 wrote: »I log vegetables to encourage me to eat more of them. I'm up to 100 grams of broccoli (weighed raw and then steamed), which seems like a lot, but am now motivated to up it further.
Just be sure to practice progressive overload and you'll hit 2 plates soon.0 -
I do! I feel like the only reason I take the time to count cals because I really want to know accurately how many I'm eating. If I ignore a few here and there, then pretty soon my numbers will be way off. I think it's important to know the truth for me.0
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Here's something else to consider. Not logging is erasing knowledge. If in a few weeks you aren't seeing the results you expected, you will have no way of knowing if the fruit and vegetables had anything to do with it.
+1, and then some.
Me, I love data. If I weigh (mostly) and measure (liquids) accurately, I know how many calories I'm eating, and if I work to log exercise calories accurately, too, then I have enough data to calculate my own personal, quite accurate TDEE.
When I've lost a good chunk of weight, so needed to drop my loss rate from 2lbs/week to 1lb/week, then later 0.5lb/week, I could calculate that with fair accuracy. (It's still an estimate, because it's impossible to measure either food or activity perfectly, but it's a *good* estimate. Specifically, it's *very* different from MFP's vanilla estimate.)
Like some of the other vegetarians, I eat a big bunch'o'veg'n'fruit daily - 500+g, maybe? If I didn't log them, I wouldn't have nearly as good a base of data for understanding & managing my weight loss. And that's without even considering the value of logging in order to track other macro/micro nutrients.
So, can you lose weight without logging fruits/veg? Sure, as long as CI < CO, and as long as that's your only objective. But if you want to manage your weight loss and nutrition more effectively, then logging everything meticulously is the way to go.
On the "how much is too much veg" sub-topic: Most mainstream health-promotion entities seem to be suggesting 5 to 9 half-cup servings of veg/fruit daily for everyone. The standard American diet's couple of lil' broccoli florets and 15 carrot coins won't get you there very fast.0 -
summerkissed wrote: »Wow the 10% of the population that eats enough fruit and veggies is on this thread......just imagine the chances of that!!!!
Well we are on a fitness/calorie counting board. It's not illogical to think most of us are changing the way we eat to be healthier. That includes making better food choices. I know I certainly didn't eat as many veggies as I'm eating now. When I track I'm more conscious of the choices I make.0 -
As to the question at hand. I do track everything. It would be counter productive to not do so. My deficit isn't very large because A. I'm short B. I'm sedentary and C. my post hysterectomy my body wants to be fat lol
Some days my deficit is only a few hundred calories, just not much wiggle room.. I'm sure if you had a more generous daily calorie goal it would be possible to do it and still lose weight.0 -
This has become quite the conversation. With a little bit of conflicting opinion, but generally the same consensus. Thanks Everyone.
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summerkissed wrote: »Wow the 10% of the population that eats enough fruit and veggies is on this thread......just imagine the chances of that!!!!
And just imagine the chance that the people who have successfully lost weight are giving the OP sound advice on counting their vegetables. In one post you rant about the fact that 90% of people don't eat enough fruits and vegetables while in another post, you tell someone that the amount of broccoli she eats is not normal and her portion control is bad. So...should she A) eat less vegetables and be part of the 90% or should she
continue to eat vegetables and log them so that she knows what is taking in overall for the day? I vote B. I ate 240 grams of asparagus for lunch and easily could have eaten twice that. I chose and logged it. 0 -
isn't 1200 calories extremely low ? I'm a 106 kg male trying out a cut (fat loss) on 2800 calories.
I'd assume it'd be good to up your calories to 1400 and just use those extra 200 cals for vegetables or even 1600 calories - if you are exercising it sounds like a big enough deficit to lose weight.
If you are eating untracked vegetables and fruit you certainly aren't getting 1200 calories but more, especially with fruits that are not berries, 1 banana alone has 90-100 calories.0 -
isn't 1200 calories extremely low ? I'm a 106 kg male trying out a cut (fat loss) on 2800 calories.
Heh. You're young, relatively large (no negative implication intended), male, and since you mention cutting, probably muscular/active. You'd be *amazed* how few calories it takes to maintain, let alone lose, if you're female, tiny, and old (I know OP isn't old).
I was obese at my 83kg starting weight, and I'm mid-sized for a female (5'5"). At goal weight, if sedentary, most calculators would put my *maintenance* calories in the mid-1400s. Imagine what it's like for someone who's 5' or thereabouts.
But your final point is more than valid, and very important to people with lower BMR/TDEE - If you have to eat 1200 (or even 1400) to lose, then those uncounted veggies/fruit can be a huge variable.0 -
debrakgoogins wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »Wow the 10% of the population that eats enough fruit and veggies is on this thread......just imagine the chances of that!!!!
And just imagine the chance that the people who have successfully lost weight are giving the OP sound advice on counting their vegetables. In one post you rant about the fact that 90% of people don't eat enough fruits and vegetables while in another post, you tell someone that the amount of broccoli she eats is not normal and her portion control is bad. So...should she A) eat less vegetables and be part of the 90% or should she continue to eat vegetables and log them so that she knows what is taking in overall for the day? I vote B. I ate 240 grams of asparagus for lunch and easily could have eaten twice that. I chose and logged it.
Asparagus is one of my favorites! My husband and I both love it and no matter how much I prepare, it never seems like we have enough.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »debrakgoogins wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »Wow the 10% of the population that eats enough fruit and veggies is on this thread......just imagine the chances of that!!!!
And just imagine the chance that the people who have successfully lost weight are giving the OP sound advice on counting their vegetables. In one post you rant about the fact that 90% of people don't eat enough fruits and vegetables while in another post, you tell someone that the amount of broccoli she eats is not normal and her portion control is bad. So...should she A) eat less vegetables and be part of the 90% or should she continue to eat vegetables and log them so that she knows what is taking in overall for the day? I vote B. I ate 240 grams of asparagus for lunch and easily could have eaten twice that. I chose and logged it.
Asparagus is one of my favorites! My husband and I both love it and no matter how much I prepare, it never seems like we have enough.
Me too! I love it in so many ways. And it's yummy whether it's the thin ones or the fat ones, or the purple, green or white! Even my vegetable-refusing kid thinks asparagus is surprisingly good!0
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