White addiction
Replies
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...But sometimes a person can benefit from eliminating those foods and setting up their environment with foods they don't have control issues with. Maybe some day that person is able to reintroduce said food (and thats great) and maybe they'll always need to keep at arms length........I agree with this too, but frequently people don't have complete control over their environments. They impulse buy at the grocery store or order things they later think better of at a restaurant....
I became acutely aware of temptation when I was put on a pre-surgery liquid diet for two weeks. Images of food assaulted me everywhere. I dealt with it by recording the temptation on my phone and writing about it. I logged examples in brochures and flyers (juicy burgers), in the aisles leading to the checkout counter (nuts, gum, and candy), and on television (Subway, McDonald's, Pizza). It's everywhere. I didn't want to think about food at all, but I couldn't escape it.
I also recall a large Boston Pizza billboard facing my home when I was poor and raising two little ones alone. I had no money for take-out so I got pretty good at making a home-made pizza in thirty minutes flat. All I needed was baking supplies and the toppings and I was good to go.
But am I a jellyfish at the mercy of wind and tide, or human? Surely I can buck the tide for a little while at least, and make a different choice.0 -
juggernaut1974 wrote: »
Not in those words exactly but the general tone and interpretation by many posters (considering the responses I quoted it seemed that was the impression that was given).
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juggernaut1974 wrote: »
Not in those words exactly but the general tone and interpretation by many posters (considering the responses I quoted it seemed that was the impression that was given).
I think you're projecting your own personal bias (and perhaps I am as well)
I read those as merely suggestions as possible solutions to OP's 'problem' - which is the same way I read the responses advocating FOR abstinence.
Regardless, if that's the best example(s) you can come up with of suggestions of abstinence being met with derision and ridicule, then I'm afraid your point fails...as not a single one of them mentions abstinence (other than one that points out merely that it isn't necessary in a very non-derisive manner), nor was in response to an abstinence suggestion.
Another ETA: A few of them appear to be ridiculing the whole "white" concept...not abstinence.0 -
...But sometimes a person can benefit from eliminating those foods and setting up their environment with foods they don't have control issues with. Maybe some day that person is able to reintroduce said food (and thats great) and maybe they'll always need to keep at arms length........I agree with this too, but frequently people don't have complete control over their environments. They impulse buy at the grocery store or order things they later think better of at a restaurant....
I became acutely aware of temptation when I was put on a pre-surgery liquid diet for two weeks. Images of food assaulted me everywhere. I dealt with it by recording the temptation on my phone and writing about it. I logged examples in brochures and flyers (juicy burgers), in the aisles leading to the checkout counter (nuts, gum, and candy), and on television (Subway, McDonald's, Pizza). It's everywhere. I didn't want to think about food at all, but I couldn't escape it.
I also recall a large Boston Pizza billboard facing my home when I was poor and raising two little ones alone. I had no money for take-out so I got pretty good at making a home-made pizza in thirty minutes flat. All I needed was baking supplies and the toppings and I was good to go.
But am I a jellyfish at the mercy of wind and tide, or human? Surely I can buck the tide for a little while at least, and make a different choice.
Sure we are all human and the 'out of sight, out of mind' is only a tool in the tool belt and over reliance on it can actually be a disaster. It is helpful in reducing the number of times we have to say "no" even if its something we allow in moderation. My desk at work is across from the table where all the desert goes. Table of brownies there today. Everytime i get up to use the restroom or talk to someone i have to pass on the brownies. At home I don't have that issue and I enjoy it.
This reminds me of that scene in Flight where Denzel is doing great and the adjacent room with the bar is open and he finds the mini bar and camera closes in on the shooter before he swipes it.0 -
I'm for whatever works. What do you think of the kitchen safe, @ryry62685 ?
http://www.thekitchensafe.com/0 -
No fighting. I am sugar's *kitten*.0
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I'm for whatever works. What do you think of the kitchen safe, @ryry62685 ?
http://www.thekitchensafe.com/
I saw that on Shark Tank and got a good chuckle. Its going to unlock at some point so I would question its effeciency but if it works for someone them good for them.
I think it would probably would be pretty good for phones, controllers, remotes and those things during study time for kids (or adults!).0 -
juggernaut1974 wrote: »juggernaut1974 wrote: »
Not in those words exactly but the general tone and interpretation by many posters (considering the responses I quoted it seemed that was the impression that was given).
I think you're projecting your own personal bias (and perhaps I am as well)
I read those as merely suggestions as possible solutions to OP's 'problem' - which is the same way I read the responses advocating FOR abstinence.
Regardless, if that's the best example(s) you can come up with of suggestions of abstinence being met with derision and ridicule, then I'm afraid your point fails...as not a single one of them mentions abstinence (other than one that points out merely that it isn't necessary in a very non-derisive manner), nor was in response to an abstinence suggestion.
Another ETA: A few of them appear to be ridiculing the whole "white" concept...not abstinence.
I'm willing to admit some bias even though I'm not sure since I think moderation is probably the most desirable result.
I've got no desire to debate the semantics of this. These are not the "best examples" but only the ones I found in this thread. If you don't think the responses to this would be kinder, more empathetic, welcoming, etc. if the topic was\ "Help me eat sugar and maintain my calorie deficit" then I must be delusional.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »Hey, I am constantly loosing my fight against sugar. Choclote, dried fruits, sweets, cookies. Endless list that can't stop thinking about. How you fight sugar addiction? Is this anything to do with that that I don't eat much meat?
Everything you mentioned there is carbs, maybe you're addicted to carbs perhaps.
Oh, yes, lots of people just can't control themselves with carrots.
Replace the word "carrots" with chips, crackers, breads, cookies, candy and that will be true. Probably no one binges on broccoli, either, but that's pretty high in sugar as veggies go. I find that filling up on veggies, proteins and fats, and leaving behind the crackers/chips/breads etc, pretty well makes me binge-proof.0 -
Even toddlers know the difference between broccoli and goldfish crackers.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=GkYQg0l5bMY0 -
For some of the actual research on the subject food/eating and addiction, please see this thread and the links therein:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10226257/food-addiction-a-different-perspective/p1
As for what the OP asked, outside of personal bias?
OP, in the past when I found myself feeling like you, I just quit all sugary treats cold turkey. It was hard at first, but at that point in my life, I had already quit smoking so I knew I could white knuckle it through not eating sweets.
I did. I used artificial sweeteners in my tea and coffee, so I still had sweetness in my life, but that was about it.
I lived that way for many years, with the occasional slip and binge, but I'd get back on track and not eat any sugary food at all.
During that time, I did a lot of work on myself. It was after finally coming to grips with a lot of issues I had with food that I reintroduced not only sweets, but some salty treats I'd also given up. I'd finally come to a place where I knew deep down that food was just ... food. It wasn't there for comfort, and while it tasted good, it was okay to have a small amount today and know that I could have another small amount tomorrow.
There were lots of things that played into my issues with "treat" foods, both salty and sweet. Thinking of them as "bad" was one of them. Telling myself that I shouldn't be eating them gave them the aura of forbidden fruit. I'd gobble them guiltily.
Another issue, related to that was that I'd be restricting them because of their badness. So I'd gobble more because it was the last time I'd ever, ever have those cookies or chips.
Learning that those foods weren't "bad" and were okay to have whenever I wanted them took the allure of the forbidden away from them, and suddenly, it seemed easier to eat them in reasonable portions.
Then there was the comfort aspect. I'd be stressed, and crunching chips was satisfying. A whole pan of brownies felt like a blanket wrapped around me while they were laying in my stomach when I felt lonely or misunderstood. That was a harder nut to crack, I had to do deeper work on being able to handle tough emotions. I used some visualization techniques to help me become more comfortable with my own emotions, and eating to soothe myself didn't seem like such a good solution any more.
So, after all this rambling, here's the tldr; ... you might need to give up the sugary foods for a time, but if you feel like you don't want to give them up forever, it's possible to find a way to integrate them into your life again.
Sometimes the path is simple, it's just a matter of rebalancing your macros as has already been suggested upthread. Other times, the path is a bit more difficult. Are you currently using food as a reward? Are you eating when you're bored, or sleepy, or angry, or anxious?
You might need to dig deeper to get to the real bottom of your issue. It's not really ever about the food. The answer always lies within yourself.
Good luck.0 -
Even toddlers know the difference between broccoli and goldfish crackers.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=GkYQg0l5bMY
My chihuahuas sure as heck do.0 -
0
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I'm a variety girl and my two week liquid diet nearly did me in from boredom. But I did it. In some ways willpower was easier because I had a strict regimen to follow for a set number of days. Believe me, though, I was counting the days for when it would be over.
I fear many people think that this is what "dieting" is, a limited number of days of total abstention, followed by an orgy.0 -
juggernaut1974 wrote: »juggernaut1974 wrote: »
Not in those words exactly but the general tone and interpretation by many posters (considering the responses I quoted it seemed that was the impression that was given).
I think you're projecting your own personal bias (and perhaps I am as well)
I read those as merely suggestions as possible solutions to OP's 'problem' - which is the same way I read the responses advocating FOR abstinence.
Regardless, if that's the best example(s) you can come up with of suggestions of abstinence being met with derision and ridicule, then I'm afraid your point fails...as not a single one of them mentions abstinence (other than one that points out merely that it isn't necessary in a very non-derisive manner), nor was in response to an abstinence suggestion.
Another ETA: A few of them appear to be ridiculing the whole "white" concept...not abstinence.
I'm willing to admit some bias even though I'm not sure since I think moderation is probably the most desirable result.
I've got no desire to debate the semantics of this. These are not the "best examples" but only the ones I found in this thread. If you don't think the responses to this would be kinder, more empathetic, welcoming, etc. if the topic was\ "Help me eat sugar and maintain my calorie deficit" then I must be delusional.
They're not even examples at all. They were in response to a thread about addiction...not abstinence. Those words are not synonymous.0 -
Well, thanks to this thread title I now have a new nickname for Mr. Happy.0
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juggernaut1974 wrote: »juggernaut1974 wrote: »juggernaut1974 wrote: »
Not in those words exactly but the general tone and interpretation by many posters (considering the responses I quoted it seemed that was the impression that was given).
I think you're projecting your own personal bias (and perhaps I am as well)
I read those as merely suggestions as possible solutions to OP's 'problem' - which is the same way I read the responses advocating FOR abstinence.
Regardless, if that's the best example(s) you can come up with of suggestions of abstinence being met with derision and ridicule, then I'm afraid your point fails...as not a single one of them mentions abstinence (other than one that points out merely that it isn't necessary in a very non-derisive manner), nor was in response to an abstinence suggestion.
Another ETA: A few of them appear to be ridiculing the whole "white" concept...not abstinence.
I'm willing to admit some bias even though I'm not sure since I think moderation is probably the most desirable result.
I've got no desire to debate the semantics of this. These are not the "best examples" but only the ones I found in this thread. If you don't think the responses to this would be kinder, more empathetic, welcoming, etc. if the topic was\ "Help me eat sugar and maintain my calorie deficit" then I must be delusional.
They're not even examples at all. They were in response to a thread about addiction...not abstinence. Those words are not synonymous.
I've got no desire to debate the semantics of this. You win.0 -
Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »Hey, I am constantly loosing my fight against sugar. Choclote, dried fruits, sweets, cookies. Endless list that can't stop thinking about. How you fight sugar addiction? Is this anything to do with that that I don't eat much meat?
Everything you mentioned there is carbs, maybe you're addicted to carbs perhaps.
Oh, yes, lots of people just can't control themselves with carrots.
Replace the word "carrots" with chips, crackers, breads, cookies, candy and that will be true. Probably no one binges on broccoli, either, but that's pretty high in sugar as veggies go. I find that filling up on veggies, proteins and fats, and leaving behind the crackers/chips/breads etc, pretty well makes me binge-proof.
I'm just annoyed with the idea that people are "addicted to carbs" as if all carbs were the same. There is a loud minority on this forum dedicated to pushing the view that carbs=bad and unhealthy.
Most of the foods that people have trouble controlling themselves around are highly palatable and a mix of carbs and fats, although sometimes people have preferences for highly palatable foods that are mostly fat or mostly carbs. See, e.g., the current thread about peanut butter. Similarly, cookies and cakes and pasta (usually has fat in the sauce or cheese), bread (often has butter), etc. Personally, I used to (and occasionally still do) have the most trouble controlling myself with some higher fat foods -- cheese, especially, but I could eat a ridiculous number of calories in nuts with no problem and will certainly be able to overeat on some pulled pork or prime rib or even roasted and beautifully crispy chicken with the skin on.
Similarly, the studies do not support the notion that carbs have a special effect that fats do not.0 -
Even toddlers know the difference between broccoli and goldfish crackers.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=GkYQg0l5bMY
So you would agree that OP likely is not "addicted to carbs" as some poster asserted she might be?
(Except in that we all are, since our body is evolved to use them easily for energy, of course. But calling that an addiction seems to make the term meaningless or just silly, to me.)0 -
I think most people float through life like jellyfish, pulled or pushed along by various stimuli. Perfect little consumers. And modern communication is a stimulus-rich environment. Is it addiction? No. Is it compelling? Yes. It's a rare fish that bucks the flow.
Edited to add: yes addressed to dear @lemurcat120 -
I think most people float through life like jellyfish, pulled or pushed along by various stimuli. Perfect little consumers. And modern communication is a stimulus-rich environment. Is it addiction? No. Is it compelling? Yes. It's a rare fish that bucks the flow.
Is this in response to me?0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »For some of the actual research on the subject food/eating and addiction, please see this thread and the links therein:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10226257/food-addiction-a-different-perspective/p1
As for what the OP asked, outside of personal bias?
OP, in the past when I found myself feeling like you, I just quit all sugary treats cold turkey. It was hard at first, but at that point in my life, I had already quit smoking so I knew I could white knuckle it through not eating sweets.
I did. I used artificial sweeteners in my tea and coffee, so I still had sweetness in my life, but that was about it.
I lived that way for many years, with the occasional slip and binge, but I'd get back on track and not eat any sugary food at all.
During that time, I did a lot of work on myself. It was after finally coming to grips with a lot of issues I had with food that I reintroduced not only sweets, but some salty treats I'd also given up. I'd finally come to a place where I knew deep down that food was just ... food. It wasn't there for comfort, and while it tasted good, it was okay to have a small amount today and know that I could have another small amount tomorrow.
There were lots of things that played into my issues with "treat" foods, both salty and sweet. Thinking of them as "bad" was one of them. Telling myself that I shouldn't be eating them gave them the aura of forbidden fruit. I'd gobble them guiltily.
Another issue, related to that was that I'd be restricting them because of their badness. So I'd gobble more because it was the last time I'd ever, ever have those cookies or chips.
Learning that those foods weren't "bad" and were okay to have whenever I wanted them took the allure of the forbidden away from them, and suddenly, it seemed easier to eat them in reasonable portions.
Then there was the comfort aspect. I'd be stressed, and crunching chips was satisfying. A whole pan of brownies felt like a blanket wrapped around me while they were laying in my stomach when I felt lonely or misunderstood. That was a harder nut to crack, I had to do deeper work on being able to handle tough emotions. I used some visualization techniques to help me become more comfortable with my own emotions, and eating to soothe myself didn't seem like such a good solution any more.
So, after all this rambling, here's the tldr; ... you might need to give up the sugary foods for a time, but if you feel like you don't want to give them up forever, it's possible to find a way to integrate them into your life again.
Sometimes the path is simple, it's just a matter of rebalancing your macros as has already been suggested upthread. Other times, the path is a bit more difficult. Are you currently using food as a reward? Are you eating when you're bored, or sleepy, or angry, or anxious?
You might need to dig deeper to get to the real bottom of your issue. It's not really ever about the food. The answer always lies within yourself.
Good luck.
This is awesome.0 -
I think I just had a George Carlin moment. 'bucks the flow'. . . . .word play. Sorry folks, carry on.I think most people float through life like jellyfish, pulled or pushed along by various stimuli. Perfect little consumers. And modern communication is a stimulus-rich environment. Is it addiction? No. Is it compelling? Yes. It's a rare fish that bucks the flow.
Edited to add: yes addressed to dear @lemurcat120 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »Hey, I am constantly loosing my fight against sugar. Choclote, dried fruits, sweets, cookies. Endless list that can't stop thinking about. How you fight sugar addiction? Is this anything to do with that that I don't eat much meat?
Everything you mentioned there is carbs, maybe you're addicted to carbs perhaps.
Oh, yes, lots of people just can't control themselves with carrots.
Replace the word "carrots" with chips, crackers, breads, cookies, candy and that will be true. Probably no one binges on broccoli, either, but that's pretty high in sugar as veggies go. I find that filling up on veggies, proteins and fats, and leaving behind the crackers/chips/breads etc, pretty well makes me binge-proof.
I'm just annoyed with the idea that people are "addicted to carbs" as if all carbs were the same. There is a loud minority on this forum dedicated to pushing the view that carbs=bad and unhealthy.
Most of the foods that people have trouble controlling themselves around are highly palatable and a mix of carbs and fats, although sometimes people have preferences for highly palatable foods that are mostly fat or mostly carbs. See, e.g., the current thread about peanut butter. Similarly, cookies and cakes and pasta (usually has fat in the sauce or cheese), bread (often has butter), etc. Personally, I used to (and occasionally still do) have the most trouble controlling myself with some higher fat foods -- cheese, especially, but I could eat a ridiculous number of calories in nuts with no problem and will certainly be able to overeat on some pulled pork or prime rib or even roasted and beautifully crispy chicken with the skin on.
Similarly, the studies do not support the notion that carbs have a special effect that fats do not.
Carbs are fine as long as your metabolism is handling the resulting sugar. Slowing down the carbs with fiber helps give your body time to use them properly. I'll still say, though, that some carb foods make my appetite pick up, and then I struggle with food.
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Cheese is my nemesis
My attitude to cheese has changed ...I grate extra mature cheddar and keep it in Tupperware and eat some most days weighed out and added for taste
What I don't do anymore is sit down and go through half a kilo lump by lump in one night
I'm not addicted to it, but I can easily overeat without my conscious checks In place because it is highly palatable to me0 -
I think most people float through life like jellyfish, pulled or pushed along by various stimuli. Perfect little consumers. And modern communication is a stimulus-rich environment. Is it addiction? No. Is it compelling? Yes. It's a rare fish that bucks the flow.
Edited to add: yes addressed to dear @lemurcat12
I'm not seeing how this is related to what I said then, and since I typically find myself nodding to your posts am thinking that we aren't communicating well.
I'm not at all suggesting that there are not foods that many find more difficult to control than others (although it's often individual) or that marketing influences some (although to be honest I can't relate well and have trouble sympathizing with that, and don't find that heavily marketed foods are much of an issue for me -- I kind of think that by now everyone should be cynical enough to withstand it and that it is a weakness or lack of intelligence if one falls for marketing -- but again I know I'm a bit jaded as to that and may not be being fair).
What I was talking about was a post upthread that OP might be "addicted to carbs." Obviously there are many "carbs" that no one claims are addictive (i.e., carrots), so claiming a carb addiction (which of course OP herself did not do) seems absurd. It's just another in the long line of posts about how carbs are the main thing wrong with the world today, sigh.
The fact that some "carbs" (usually a mix of carbs and fats, including goldfish) are extremely palatable and are for many hard to control is not because they are "carbs" as shown by the fact that no one has trouble distinguishing them from broccoli or carrots, as you said, and there are any number of carbs that people don't claim to have issues with (whereas plenty of other foods where they do -- cheese, peanut butter, see the whole section on fat in Sugar Fat Salt).
I don't think we are really disagreeing, but I got the sense that you were arguing with a point I did not make. Perhaps I'm just confused! ;-)0 -
Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »Hey, I am constantly loosing my fight against sugar. Choclote, dried fruits, sweets, cookies. Endless list that can't stop thinking about. How you fight sugar addiction? Is this anything to do with that that I don't eat much meat?
Everything you mentioned there is carbs, maybe you're addicted to carbs perhaps.
Oh, yes, lots of people just can't control themselves with carrots.
Replace the word "carrots" with chips, crackers, breads, cookies, candy and that will be true. Probably no one binges on broccoli, either, but that's pretty high in sugar as veggies go. I find that filling up on veggies, proteins and fats, and leaving behind the crackers/chips/breads etc, pretty well makes me binge-proof.
I'm just annoyed with the idea that people are "addicted to carbs" as if all carbs were the same. There is a loud minority on this forum dedicated to pushing the view that carbs=bad and unhealthy.
Most of the foods that people have trouble controlling themselves around are highly palatable and a mix of carbs and fats, although sometimes people have preferences for highly palatable foods that are mostly fat or mostly carbs. See, e.g., the current thread about peanut butter. Similarly, cookies and cakes and pasta (usually has fat in the sauce or cheese), bread (often has butter), etc. Personally, I used to (and occasionally still do) have the most trouble controlling myself with some higher fat foods -- cheese, especially, but I could eat a ridiculous number of calories in nuts with no problem and will certainly be able to overeat on some pulled pork or prime rib or even roasted and beautifully crispy chicken with the skin on.
Similarly, the studies do not support the notion that carbs have a special effect that fats do not.
Carbs are fine as long as your metabolism is handling the resulting sugar. Slowing down the carbs with fiber helps give your body time to use them properly. I'll still say, though, that some carb foods make my appetite pick up, and then I struggle with food.
Yeah, appetite is a separate issue. That's not my experience (I find even non fibrous carbs more filling than fat, typically, and none of it makes me hungrier, but I accept that some do have that experience and I suspect it has to do with blood sugar or insulin issues). But my battle here is with the generalizations about "carbs." I've been eating more beans lately than usual and was happily reminded of how incredibly filling I find them, probably at the very top of all foods I eat in that respect.Cheese is my nemesis
My attitude to cheese has changed ...I grate extra mature cheddar and keep it in Tupperware and eat some most days weighed out and added for taste
What I don't do anymore is sit down and go through half a kilo lump by lump in one night
I'm not addicted to it, but I can easily overeat without my conscious checks In place because it is highly palatable to me
I am exactly the same.0 -
Cheese is my nemesis
My attitude to cheese has changed ...I grate extra mature cheddar and keep it in Tupperware and eat some most days weighed out and added for taste
What I don't do anymore is sit down and go through half a kilo lump by lump in one night
I'm not addicted to it, but I can easily overeat without my conscious checks In place because it is highly palatable to me
Cheese will remain a mystery to me along with chocolate. I still like it, but it no longer holds me in thrall.
Menopause, man. It was like flipping a switch.
It's really weird.0 -
I truly find it laughable that so many feel that they are addicted to carbs. Its almost not even worth explaining anymore because these people don't really wanna see the light ( they like having an excuse because moderation is hard ;(0
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@lemurcat12 I don't think we are disagreeing either. I just used a double negative. Let's clarify. We agree.
Let's call my comments a T-intersection. I'm all for finding ways to control the compulsions that drive us to foods that are highly palatable and prone to over-consumption. Even if it means taking it out of the house for a while, locking it away in a safe, tossing it in the garbage, or begging our SO to hide it where the sun don't shine.
But it's not an addiction and these foods don't have magic properties that dissolve all willpower. We all start out weak, save for those rare souls who live for poached fish.
Self discipline can be strengthened over time but it's not done by picking the heaviest weight in the rack on the first day. It is built slowly. Baby steps.0
This discussion has been closed.
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