White addiction
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I think most people float through life like jellyfish, pulled or pushed along by various stimuli. Perfect little consumers. And modern communication is a stimulus-rich environment. Is it addiction? No. Is it compelling? Yes. It's a rare fish that bucks the flow.
Is this in response to me?0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »For some of the actual research on the subject food/eating and addiction, please see this thread and the links therein:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10226257/food-addiction-a-different-perspective/p1
As for what the OP asked, outside of personal bias?
OP, in the past when I found myself feeling like you, I just quit all sugary treats cold turkey. It was hard at first, but at that point in my life, I had already quit smoking so I knew I could white knuckle it through not eating sweets.
I did. I used artificial sweeteners in my tea and coffee, so I still had sweetness in my life, but that was about it.
I lived that way for many years, with the occasional slip and binge, but I'd get back on track and not eat any sugary food at all.
During that time, I did a lot of work on myself. It was after finally coming to grips with a lot of issues I had with food that I reintroduced not only sweets, but some salty treats I'd also given up. I'd finally come to a place where I knew deep down that food was just ... food. It wasn't there for comfort, and while it tasted good, it was okay to have a small amount today and know that I could have another small amount tomorrow.
There were lots of things that played into my issues with "treat" foods, both salty and sweet. Thinking of them as "bad" was one of them. Telling myself that I shouldn't be eating them gave them the aura of forbidden fruit. I'd gobble them guiltily.
Another issue, related to that was that I'd be restricting them because of their badness. So I'd gobble more because it was the last time I'd ever, ever have those cookies or chips.
Learning that those foods weren't "bad" and were okay to have whenever I wanted them took the allure of the forbidden away from them, and suddenly, it seemed easier to eat them in reasonable portions.
Then there was the comfort aspect. I'd be stressed, and crunching chips was satisfying. A whole pan of brownies felt like a blanket wrapped around me while they were laying in my stomach when I felt lonely or misunderstood. That was a harder nut to crack, I had to do deeper work on being able to handle tough emotions. I used some visualization techniques to help me become more comfortable with my own emotions, and eating to soothe myself didn't seem like such a good solution any more.
So, after all this rambling, here's the tldr; ... you might need to give up the sugary foods for a time, but if you feel like you don't want to give them up forever, it's possible to find a way to integrate them into your life again.
Sometimes the path is simple, it's just a matter of rebalancing your macros as has already been suggested upthread. Other times, the path is a bit more difficult. Are you currently using food as a reward? Are you eating when you're bored, or sleepy, or angry, or anxious?
You might need to dig deeper to get to the real bottom of your issue. It's not really ever about the food. The answer always lies within yourself.
Good luck.
This is awesome.0 -
I think I just had a George Carlin moment. 'bucks the flow'. . . . .word play. Sorry folks, carry on.I think most people float through life like jellyfish, pulled or pushed along by various stimuli. Perfect little consumers. And modern communication is a stimulus-rich environment. Is it addiction? No. Is it compelling? Yes. It's a rare fish that bucks the flow.
Edited to add: yes addressed to dear @lemurcat120 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »Hey, I am constantly loosing my fight against sugar. Choclote, dried fruits, sweets, cookies. Endless list that can't stop thinking about. How you fight sugar addiction? Is this anything to do with that that I don't eat much meat?
Everything you mentioned there is carbs, maybe you're addicted to carbs perhaps.
Oh, yes, lots of people just can't control themselves with carrots.
Replace the word "carrots" with chips, crackers, breads, cookies, candy and that will be true. Probably no one binges on broccoli, either, but that's pretty high in sugar as veggies go. I find that filling up on veggies, proteins and fats, and leaving behind the crackers/chips/breads etc, pretty well makes me binge-proof.
I'm just annoyed with the idea that people are "addicted to carbs" as if all carbs were the same. There is a loud minority on this forum dedicated to pushing the view that carbs=bad and unhealthy.
Most of the foods that people have trouble controlling themselves around are highly palatable and a mix of carbs and fats, although sometimes people have preferences for highly palatable foods that are mostly fat or mostly carbs. See, e.g., the current thread about peanut butter. Similarly, cookies and cakes and pasta (usually has fat in the sauce or cheese), bread (often has butter), etc. Personally, I used to (and occasionally still do) have the most trouble controlling myself with some higher fat foods -- cheese, especially, but I could eat a ridiculous number of calories in nuts with no problem and will certainly be able to overeat on some pulled pork or prime rib or even roasted and beautifully crispy chicken with the skin on.
Similarly, the studies do not support the notion that carbs have a special effect that fats do not.
Carbs are fine as long as your metabolism is handling the resulting sugar. Slowing down the carbs with fiber helps give your body time to use them properly. I'll still say, though, that some carb foods make my appetite pick up, and then I struggle with food.
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Cheese is my nemesis
My attitude to cheese has changed ...I grate extra mature cheddar and keep it in Tupperware and eat some most days weighed out and added for taste
What I don't do anymore is sit down and go through half a kilo lump by lump in one night
I'm not addicted to it, but I can easily overeat without my conscious checks In place because it is highly palatable to me0 -
I think most people float through life like jellyfish, pulled or pushed along by various stimuli. Perfect little consumers. And modern communication is a stimulus-rich environment. Is it addiction? No. Is it compelling? Yes. It's a rare fish that bucks the flow.
Edited to add: yes addressed to dear @lemurcat12
I'm not seeing how this is related to what I said then, and since I typically find myself nodding to your posts am thinking that we aren't communicating well.
I'm not at all suggesting that there are not foods that many find more difficult to control than others (although it's often individual) or that marketing influences some (although to be honest I can't relate well and have trouble sympathizing with that, and don't find that heavily marketed foods are much of an issue for me -- I kind of think that by now everyone should be cynical enough to withstand it and that it is a weakness or lack of intelligence if one falls for marketing -- but again I know I'm a bit jaded as to that and may not be being fair).
What I was talking about was a post upthread that OP might be "addicted to carbs." Obviously there are many "carbs" that no one claims are addictive (i.e., carrots), so claiming a carb addiction (which of course OP herself did not do) seems absurd. It's just another in the long line of posts about how carbs are the main thing wrong with the world today, sigh.
The fact that some "carbs" (usually a mix of carbs and fats, including goldfish) are extremely palatable and are for many hard to control is not because they are "carbs" as shown by the fact that no one has trouble distinguishing them from broccoli or carrots, as you said, and there are any number of carbs that people don't claim to have issues with (whereas plenty of other foods where they do -- cheese, peanut butter, see the whole section on fat in Sugar Fat Salt).
I don't think we are really disagreeing, but I got the sense that you were arguing with a point I did not make. Perhaps I'm just confused! ;-)0 -
Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Lovee_Dove7 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »roblloyd89 wrote: »Hey, I am constantly loosing my fight against sugar. Choclote, dried fruits, sweets, cookies. Endless list that can't stop thinking about. How you fight sugar addiction? Is this anything to do with that that I don't eat much meat?
Everything you mentioned there is carbs, maybe you're addicted to carbs perhaps.
Oh, yes, lots of people just can't control themselves with carrots.
Replace the word "carrots" with chips, crackers, breads, cookies, candy and that will be true. Probably no one binges on broccoli, either, but that's pretty high in sugar as veggies go. I find that filling up on veggies, proteins and fats, and leaving behind the crackers/chips/breads etc, pretty well makes me binge-proof.
I'm just annoyed with the idea that people are "addicted to carbs" as if all carbs were the same. There is a loud minority on this forum dedicated to pushing the view that carbs=bad and unhealthy.
Most of the foods that people have trouble controlling themselves around are highly palatable and a mix of carbs and fats, although sometimes people have preferences for highly palatable foods that are mostly fat or mostly carbs. See, e.g., the current thread about peanut butter. Similarly, cookies and cakes and pasta (usually has fat in the sauce or cheese), bread (often has butter), etc. Personally, I used to (and occasionally still do) have the most trouble controlling myself with some higher fat foods -- cheese, especially, but I could eat a ridiculous number of calories in nuts with no problem and will certainly be able to overeat on some pulled pork or prime rib or even roasted and beautifully crispy chicken with the skin on.
Similarly, the studies do not support the notion that carbs have a special effect that fats do not.
Carbs are fine as long as your metabolism is handling the resulting sugar. Slowing down the carbs with fiber helps give your body time to use them properly. I'll still say, though, that some carb foods make my appetite pick up, and then I struggle with food.
Yeah, appetite is a separate issue. That's not my experience (I find even non fibrous carbs more filling than fat, typically, and none of it makes me hungrier, but I accept that some do have that experience and I suspect it has to do with blood sugar or insulin issues). But my battle here is with the generalizations about "carbs." I've been eating more beans lately than usual and was happily reminded of how incredibly filling I find them, probably at the very top of all foods I eat in that respect.Cheese is my nemesis
My attitude to cheese has changed ...I grate extra mature cheddar and keep it in Tupperware and eat some most days weighed out and added for taste
What I don't do anymore is sit down and go through half a kilo lump by lump in one night
I'm not addicted to it, but I can easily overeat without my conscious checks In place because it is highly palatable to me
I am exactly the same.0 -
Cheese is my nemesis
My attitude to cheese has changed ...I grate extra mature cheddar and keep it in Tupperware and eat some most days weighed out and added for taste
What I don't do anymore is sit down and go through half a kilo lump by lump in one night
I'm not addicted to it, but I can easily overeat without my conscious checks In place because it is highly palatable to me
Cheese will remain a mystery to me along with chocolate. I still like it, but it no longer holds me in thrall.
Menopause, man. It was like flipping a switch.
It's really weird.0 -
I truly find it laughable that so many feel that they are addicted to carbs. Its almost not even worth explaining anymore because these people don't really wanna see the light ( they like having an excuse because moderation is hard ;(0
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@lemurcat12 I don't think we are disagreeing either. I just used a double negative. Let's clarify. We agree.
Let's call my comments a T-intersection. I'm all for finding ways to control the compulsions that drive us to foods that are highly palatable and prone to over-consumption. Even if it means taking it out of the house for a while, locking it away in a safe, tossing it in the garbage, or begging our SO to hide it where the sun don't shine.
But it's not an addiction and these foods don't have magic properties that dissolve all willpower. We all start out weak, save for those rare souls who live for poached fish.
Self discipline can be strengthened over time but it's not done by picking the heaviest weight in the rack on the first day. It is built slowly. Baby steps.0 -
I didn't read every comment but the ones I did read said sugar isn't evil and its not addictive. There has actually been new research on this topic that shows sugar has all the markers of addiction. There has also been research showing sugars effect on the body in terms of weight gain. It causes insulin to rise and that causes fat storage. Sugars in fruit aren't as bad because the fiber causes a slower release of energy which keeps insulin at a lower level.0
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I didn't read every comment but the ones I did read said sugar isn't evil and its not addictive. There has actually been new research on this topic that shows sugar has all the markers of addiction. There has also been research showing sugars effect on the body in terms of weight gain. It causes insulin to rise and that causes fat storage. Sugars in fruit aren't as bad because the fiber causes a slower release of energy which keeps insulin at a lower level.
You need to go back and read the whole thread.0 -
I didn't read every comment but the ones I did read said sugar isn't evil and its not addictive. There has actually been new research on this topic that shows sugar has all the markers of addiction. There has also been research showing sugars effect on the body in terms of weight gain. It causes insulin to rise and that causes fat storage. Sugars in fruit aren't as bad because the fiber causes a slower release of energy which keeps insulin at a lower level.
You need to read more science.0 -
I didn't read every comment but the ones I did read said sugar isn't evil and its not addictive. There has actually been new research on this topic that shows sugar has all the markers of addiction. There has also been research showing sugars effect on the body in terms of weight gain. It causes insulin to rise and that causes fat storage. Sugars in fruit aren't as bad because the fiber causes a slower release of energy which keeps insulin at a lower level.
Maybe you should post this research...
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@lemurcat12 I don't think we are disagreeing either. I just used a double negative. Let's clarify. We agree.
Let's call my comments a T-intersection. I'm all for finding ways to control the compulsions that drive us to foods that are highly palatable and prone to over-consumption. Even if it means taking it out of the house for a while, locking it away in a safe, tossing it in the garbage, or begging our SO to hide it where the sun don't shine.
But it's not an addiction and these foods don't have magic properties that dissolve all willpower. We all start out weak, save for those rare souls who live for poached fish.
Self discipline can be strengthened over time but it's not done by picking the heaviest weight in the rack on the first day. It is built slowly. Baby steps.
I used to fail every diet, because I couldn't stick with the program. I always craved, and thought about food. I worked so hard then sabotaged it. I felt like I had no self control. It was really frustrating!!!!!! So when I learned about metabolism and how different foods and sugar affect it, I applied what I learned. In three days, I went from eating 2500+ calories/day (because I was hungry for it!) to eating 1600-1800/day and feeling completely satisfied, never bingeing or craving. The only self control/discipline required is simply stocking my kitchen with those foods. Also the discipline to get daily exercise. But this is easy compared to the food addiction I was feeling prior to that.0 -
So interesting that people hold themselves out to be experts on addiction when they have no training or background in it. I suggest going to the NIH website and reading about addiction -- you might learn something, particularly the research on the neurophysiology of addiction. But the bottom line for me is I don't care what people call it -- I do better eating within my macros if I don't eat foods w/ added sugars and high sugar fruits, etc. Easier to stay on my macro plan and I feel better. I think a good way to approach it is what is suggested in alcoholics anonymous for alcohol -- try to control your alcohol intake for 30 days. If you can, great. If you can't maybe you should consider giving up alcohol.....letting go of it. Now just substitute "added sugars" (or whatever). Some people on this thread do fine and can control the volume of added sugar foods that they eat. Great -- so go for it. I have huge amounts of willpower -- I lift weights and run, work, have a difficult job, etc. but it is simply easier for me and I feel better if I don't eat foods w/ added sugars.
I do wonder what your background and training might be in relation to addiction.
I worked in addictions for 8 years and did alcohol and substance abuse evaluations on a daily basis. I know the criteria for substance abuse and dependence like the back of my hand. Food does not meet that criteria.
Are there dysfunctional behaviors that are related to food? Absolutely. They should be dealt with. If it is severe, it should be done in a clinical setting, probably centering on CBT. However it is not the food that is addictive, but the thoughts or behaviors that are associated with the food that are the issue.
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Make sure you are getting enough protein from other sources since you don't eat much meat. That can help a lot with cravings. Except for fruit, you might want to try avoiding processed sugars completely for several weeks or months. This helped me quite a bit. Good luck!0
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strong_curves wrote: »I eat most of the foods you listed, hasn't hindered my weight loss. Are you tracking your intake on MFP?strong_curves wrote: »I eat most of the foods you listed, hasn't hindered my weight loss. Are you tracking your intake on MFP?strong_curves wrote: »I eat most of the foods you listed, hasn't hindered my weight loss. Are you tracking your intake on MFP?strong_curves wrote: »I eat most of the foods you listed, hasn't hindered my weight loss. Are you tracking your intake on MFP?strong_curves wrote: »I eat most of the foods you listed, hasn't hindered my weight loss. Are you tracking your intake on MFP?strong_curves wrote: »I eat most of the foods you listed, hasn't hindered my weight loss. Are you tracking your intake on MFP?strong_curves wrote: »I eat most of the foods you listed, hasn't hindered my weight loss. Are you tracking your intake on MFP?
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Hey, I am constantly loosing my fight against sugar. Choclote, dried fruits, sweets, cookies. Endless list that can't stop thinking about. How you fight sugar addiction? Is this anything to do with that that I don't eat much meat?
Thank youlemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Isn't cocaine white? I'm confused...
Many foods I eat are white: cauliflower, turnips, daikon radishes, eggs (well, white and yellow), cottage cheese, yogurt. I love them all.
The only sugary food I eat that's white is vanilla ice cream, as I certainly don't care for sugar straight. Yuck. And white chocolate is only acceptable if the real stuff isn't around. ;-)
Actually it is a great idea, I might be able to enjoy a cup of ice cream every day, that don't have that much calories as all above, tank sweetie
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