Calling out Lazy is the Lazy answer
jgnatca
Posts: 14,464 Member
I am peeved when I see responses calling out posters asking for help as being....lazy. In my opinion, that's the lazy answer. I recall all the work I did over the past few years losing weight, reaching fitness goals and all of that, and at various times I got bored, discouraged, distracted, or tempted. The courage came from getting up again and giving it another go. When I got up again, though, I didn't try and do the same old tired thing again. If something wasn't working, there was a reason. I dug deep, figured it out, and tried something new.
Beating myself up never worked. Making a life change of this sort is hard enough without beating on my own poor self, let alone anyone else getting on my case. Anyone who might have whispered the word, "lazy" around me would have been tasered with my gimlet eye. This life change was darned hard work and nobody could know it as well as me, living in my own skin. But I am surrounded, surprisingly consistently, by a terrific group of people who encouraged me and congratulated me on my successes. They helped.
Instead of responding to a discouraged poster by telling them to tough it out, stop making excuses, and don't be lazy, how about digging down with a few pointed questions to help them see out of the hole they've got themselves in? Help them imagine a new way out of their problem.
It's easy enough on the other side to say how easy it has been, but living inside it, it seems insurmountable. Please don't forget that feeling of despair, the barely daring to hope for a better life. Respond kindly and intelligently.
Beating myself up never worked. Making a life change of this sort is hard enough without beating on my own poor self, let alone anyone else getting on my case. Anyone who might have whispered the word, "lazy" around me would have been tasered with my gimlet eye. This life change was darned hard work and nobody could know it as well as me, living in my own skin. But I am surrounded, surprisingly consistently, by a terrific group of people who encouraged me and congratulated me on my successes. They helped.
Instead of responding to a discouraged poster by telling them to tough it out, stop making excuses, and don't be lazy, how about digging down with a few pointed questions to help them see out of the hole they've got themselves in? Help them imagine a new way out of their problem.
It's easy enough on the other side to say how easy it has been, but living inside it, it seems insurmountable. Please don't forget that feeling of despair, the barely daring to hope for a better life. Respond kindly and intelligently.
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Replies
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You are so right. Thanks for posting.0
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Thanks for the reply, @kshama2001 . I worry with a post like this, tied up with a pretty little bow, that there isn't a lot of room for contributions or discussion. But I welcome other thoughts.0
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It's almost like we all forget how it is to be horribly stuck and literally not seeing a way out. Sometimes it takes an outsider's perspective to see what we can do better. Most people asking for help are asking for this perspective. So yes, just telling them that they're lazy is woefully insufficient.0
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I don't think that I would call somebody lazy. However, I will at times state that a person is not dedicated or ready to make a change.0
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I like tough love, I think if your sitting in front of a tv all day eating chips, I WANT someone to tell me I am Lazy, get off the couch and get going!!, Its all about movement,, stop sitting so long and giddy up, kick some butt!, but I do see your point, everyone is so different and unique in their own way!0
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Wish I could "like" this post
I figure if you are here, then you are trying... and I am not the judge or jury member so more power to you!0 -
I don't think that I would call somebody lazy. However, I will at times state that a person is not dedicated or ready to make a change.
I think "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?" is the type of pointed question that needs to be asked for someone to have that gut-check moment (pun somewhat intended). I don't think that's dismissive or calling someone lazy.0 -
I am peeved when I see responses calling out posters asking for help as being....lazy. In my opinion, that's the lazy answer. I recall all the work I did over the past few years losing weight, reaching fitness goals and all of that, and at various times I got bored, discouraged, distracted, or tempted. The courage came from getting up again and giving it another go. When I got up again, though, I didn't try and do the same old tired thing again. If something wasn't working, there was a reason. I dug deep, figured it out, and tried something new.
Beating myself up never worked. Making a life change of this sort is hard enough without beating on my own poor self, let alone anyone else getting on my case. Anyone who might have whispered the word, "lazy" around me would have been tasered with my gimlet eye. This life change was darned hard work and nobody could know it as well as me, living in my own skin. But I am surrounded, surprisingly consistently, by a terrific group of people who encouraged me and congratulated me on my successes. They helped.
Instead of responding to a discouraged poster by telling them to tough it out, stop making excuses, and don't be lazy, how about digging down with a few pointed questions to help them see out of the hole they've got themselves in? Help them imagine a new way out of their problem.
It's easy enough on the other side to say how easy it has been, but living inside it, it seems insurmountable. Please don't forget that feeling of despair, the barely daring to hope for a better life. Respond kindly and intelligently.
I agree wholeheartedly! I've found some people who have been very successful losing weight to be quite hypocritical of others who are struggling. I may even be guilty of a little of this myself.
I recently found myself telling someone "If I can do it, anyone can do it." While that may sound like a nice, motivational thing to say, it's also laced with hypocrisy. Yes, anyone can lose weight, but for years I didn't. Why? It wasn't because I didn't want to, that's for sure. It was because it seemed too hard. Someone could have shown me a hundred weight loss success stories, but it wouldn't have mattered because those people weren't me.
I made the commitment to lose weight when I was ready, and that's what made it possible for me. Telling people that are struggling to lose weight or to even start the process that all they need is more willpower is often unhelpful. I'm not saying tough-love doesn't have it's place, but like OP said it's difficult to change your life, and some compassion and understanding could go a long way to helping someone.0 -
KANGOOJUMPS wrote: »I like tough love, I think if your sitting in front of a tv all day eating chips, I WANT someone to tell me I am Lazy, get off the couch and get going!!, Its all about movement,, stop sitting so long and giddy up, kick some butt!, but I do see your point, everyone is so different and unique in their own way!
Those cases are different. There are others who're trying but clearly know no better. Someone I know genuinely did not know how to work this site. So she was logging her calories incorrectly and was not seeing a loss although she was working hard at it.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think that I would call somebody lazy. However, I will at times state that a person is not dedicated or ready to make a change.
I think "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?" is the type of pointed question that needs to be asked for someone to have that gut-check moment (pun somewhat intended). I don't think that's dismissive or calling someone lazy.
Yes, that's the kind of thing I mean. I don't lead with "well you're not ready." It's really after enough info/questioning to indicate such a thing. And really, I don't think that it's wrong to not be ready. I wasn't ready to truly change my eating and health habits until I hit a certain point where I just...was. Nobody is a bad person or lesser than anybody else if s/he chooses not to work on these things.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think that I would call somebody lazy. However, I will at times state that a person is not dedicated or ready to make a change.
I think "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?" is the type of pointed question that needs to be asked for someone to have that gut-check moment (pun somewhat intended). I don't think that's dismissive or calling someone lazy.
I this this is a useful question "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?"
I think the opinion "You're not ready" is invalidating, and will cut off further dialog if the recipient gets defensive.0 -
I don't think I've ever seen that response
I must not be posting enough
:huh:0 -
I don't think that I would call somebody lazy. However, I will at times state that a person is not dedicated or ready to make a change.
^ This... if OP is talking about people who've been at it a while and get discouraged, I think the community if generally fairly helpful to these folks.
The only time I see anyone get called out (though I rarely see anyone called lazy per se) is when they come in and act surprised that their one week of 'eating clean' and exercising didn't yield that 80 pound loss they were counting on. Some people clearly aren't mentally prepared to do what it takes to achieve their goals, and that's OK, but support and advice is largely wasted on people that haven't made that commitment.
Harsh, but true.0 -
Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I share my own experience- came to MFP knowing it was necessary, but not with the best attitude. Built my motivation little by little with small changes & successes.
Always love your kind, thoughtful posts that encourage people to think, jgnatca 0 -
Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't answer those questions. I don't think that there is anything that I can do to motivate a stranger. To me, motivation is too personal to get from people on the internet. I'm motivated by my health and physical goals and by wanting to be a good example to my daughter and a healthy partner for my husband. I might admire somebody online for changes they've made, but I don't equate that with being motivated by that person.0 -
Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
This would be hard for me to respond to because I just generally don't get my motivation from external sources. But I do get that some people need someone else pushing them. I guess my response would be something like "In what ways does your weight negatively affect your life, and in what ways do you think losing weight would improve it?" The answers to those questions would be the source of motivation for that person.
Now if what they really needed was an accountability buddy, or a drill sergeant to yell at them to get off the couch, that's just not me.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think that I would call somebody lazy. However, I will at times state that a person is not dedicated or ready to make a change.
I think "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?" is the type of pointed question that needs to be asked for someone to have that gut-check moment (pun somewhat intended). I don't think that's dismissive or calling someone lazy.
I agree with this.
And for me, I wasn't for some time, and then I was. Letting myself off the hook instead of beating myself up for failing when I wasn't ready was actually helpful, and realizing that if I was ready I'd commit to certain things helped me get there. The latter was a way of understanding that it really was in my control, and understanding that is essential to success, I think. Also essential is understanding WHY it's important to YOU to lose the weight, and for many people they just think they should because they have this general sense that it's bad to be overweight or others are telling them. They need to work through the why and how for themselves, fundamentally, I believe.
I don't think I've ever noticed anyone being told they are lazy. I certainly would never say that (and I don't think not being ready is being lazy).0 -
Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I generally don't address it. If someone is posting that, IMO they don't have the inner-drive yet to make the changes and anything I say about finding it is going to fall on deaf ears. I try to help people who are ready for help.0 -
Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I talk about what motivates me.0 -
I think this is nonsense.
Listen, motivation, will-power, dedication, all of these things come from within. No amount of coddling or (conversely) shaming is going to push someone over the edge to make their own decisions. That's something they have to do.
In my opinion, you either want it or you don't. You either put the effort in or you don't. Period. And I have definitely seen people who put very little effort into weight loss, see very little results, and then want to be validated for it. They want to be told they're "special" and something must be wrong with them because it shouldn't be so hard.
Let's not put the responsibility of someone's success on others, because the fact of the matter is their own actions determine their failures.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think that I would call somebody lazy. However, I will at times state that a person is not dedicated or ready to make a change.
I think "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?" is the type of pointed question that needs to be asked for someone to have that gut-check moment (pun somewhat intended). I don't think that's dismissive or calling someone lazy.
I this this is a useful question "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?"
I think the opinion "You're not ready" is invalidating, and will cut off further dialog if the recipient gets defensive.
Yes, I agree with this distinction. Also, we can have our own well-grounded opinions based on what the OP says, but we don't really know. I do tend to think a certain degree of self-direction which is often apparently lacking is essential to being ready, but I express an opinion that a poster is not ready to that poster, I don't think. I think the pointed question can be helpful, however.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think that I would call somebody lazy. However, I will at times state that a person is not dedicated or ready to make a change.
I think "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?" is the type of pointed question that needs to be asked for someone to have that gut-check moment (pun somewhat intended). I don't think that's dismissive or calling someone lazy.
I this this is a useful question "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?"
I think the opinion "You're not ready" is invalidating, and will cut off further dialog if the recipient gets defensive.
I've posted the "you're not ready" thing a few times. And I don't mean it in an invalidating way. It's meant for the reader to see it and think "How am I not ready? What do I need to do to be ready?" It's meant to get the reader to think about the choices they're making and question things further. Perhas it does cut off dialog. I guess that depends on the OP. But I sure as heck hope that the person reading that statement will begin to question things and search for an answer, whether they truly aren't ready or if they're just pussyfooting around or if they just need to buckledown or whathaveyou.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I generally don't address it. If someone is posting that, IMO they don't have the inner-drive yet to make the changes and anything I say about finding it is going to fall on deaf ears. I try to help people who are ready for help.
Maybe most of the time, but not always. A friend started with a very bleak and discouraged attitude, but I encouraged her just to START and see if the motivation didn't follow, and she's had a lot of success. Sort of like a saying I once heard- "Act yourself into the right way of thinking."0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I generally don't address it. If someone is posting that, IMO they don't have the inner-drive yet to make the changes and anything I say about finding it is going to fall on deaf ears. I try to help people who are ready for help.
+1
I'll sometimes give my 'Motivation is Fleeting, Find Your DETERMINATION' speech, but as @tincanonastring indicates, it generally falls on deaf ears. Motivation, determination, whatever you want to call it, has to come from within the individual. It is very difficult, if not impossible, for an external source - let alone a *virtual* external source to have much impact in helping someone to find it.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »I think this is nonsense.
Listen, motivation, will-power, dedication, all of these things come from within. No amount of coddling or (conversely) shaming is going to push someone over the edge to make their own decisions. That's something they have to do.
In my opinion, you either want it or you don't. You either put the effort in or you don't. Period. And I have definitely seen people who put very little effort into weight loss, see very little results, and then want to be validated for it. They want to be told they're "special" and something must be wrong with them because it shouldn't be so hard.
Let's not put the responsibility of someone's success on others, because the fact of the matter is their own actions determine their failures.
This is why I don't respond to those threads. The people who are ready need a little kick in the pants on occasion. Those who are crying out, "Motivate me!" just aren't reachable and anything I say is only going to drive them further away.0 -
On one hand I agree, and yet I get really angry with people who ask for help and then proceed to shoot down every helpful response that comes his or her way. They want the easy answer, the magic bullet, and there never is one. I admit I'm not the most sympathetic person, though.0
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tincanonastring wrote: »Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I generally don't address it. If someone is posting that, IMO they don't have the inner-drive yet to make the changes and anything I say about finding it is going to fall on deaf ears. I try to help people who are ready for help.
Maybe most of the time, but not always. A friend started with a very bleak and discouraged attitude, but I encouraged her just to START and see if the motivation didn't follow, and she's had a lot of success. Sort of like a saying I once heard- "Act yourself into the right way of thinking."
Offline, for a friend I know in real life, it's a different story. I was limiting my response to MFP, but I should have made that distinction.0 -
jgnatca- how about posting that link you shared recently (I think it was you) about helping people that don't want to change?0
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I don't think I've ever seen someone flat out call an OP lazy. It's been my experience that people get on here, complain about x,y, or z, receive truthful and blunt advice about their "problem" and then get butt hurt because they aren't being coddled and given the responses they want to hear.
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