Calling out Lazy is the Lazy answer
Replies
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tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I generally don't address it. If someone is posting that, IMO they don't have the inner-drive yet to make the changes and anything I say about finding it is going to fall on deaf ears. I try to help people who are ready for help.
Maybe most of the time, but not always. A friend started with a very bleak and discouraged attitude, but I encouraged her just to START and see if the motivation didn't follow, and she's had a lot of success. Sort of like a saying I once heard- "Act yourself into the right way of thinking."
Offline, for a friend I know in real life, it's a different story. I was limiting my response to MFP, but I should have made that distinction.
My reference was actually to an MFP "friend".0 -
Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
If said that vaguely, then I would ask them to think about why they want to lose weight/get healthy and really focus on the specifics and why it matters to them.
If someone has a lot to lose I'd suggest breaking it down into smaller goals including process goals they have control over (going to the gym and exercising 3 times that week for at least 30 minutes, vs. losing 2 lbs).
If someone seems not to believe it will do any good, I'll talk about how when I first lost weight I didn't believe it would work either (crazy as that sounds), and that what helped me was realizing that apart from the weight I could control how fit and healthy I was, and even if the weight didn't come off I'd be as healthy and fit through eating well and exercise as possible (and of course I lost weight easily enough when I did that).
I also might explore their struggles -- so often people on MFP try extreme diets and fail over and over and it's because they have in their heads the idea that a diet must be extreme or miserable to work (and maybe it's an element of self punishment). So I stress that I found the whole process pleasant and enjoyable, since I didn't do anything extreme or self-punishing, a conscious choice when I started.
Beyond that, depending on the specifics of their difficulties I would share anything that I did to deal with similar issues.0 -
Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't answer those questions. I don't think that there is anything that I can do to motivate a stranger. To me, motivation is too personal to get from people on the internet. I'm motivated by my health and physical goals and by wanting to be a good example to my daughter and a healthy partner for my husband. I might admire somebody online for changes they've made, but I don't equate that with being motivated by that person.
I agree with you and I'm the same way, but sometimes I DO respond to those posts and try to make the point that reliance on motivation is not the key to long-term success. That is done by creating new habits. Sometimes you'll feel like working out and sometimes you won't, but if it's already factored into your day or week as a habit, you just do it. Same thing with meal planning and logging. Motivation and support is great, but reliance upon it for your own success is not.
As always, @jgnatca, thank you for your insightful post!0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I generally don't address it. If someone is posting that, IMO they don't have the inner-drive yet to make the changes and anything I say about finding it is going to fall on deaf ears. I try to help people who are ready for help.
Maybe most of the time, but not always. A friend started with a very bleak and discouraged attitude, but I encouraged her just to START and see if the motivation didn't follow, and she's had a lot of success. Sort of like a saying I once heard- "Act yourself into the right way of thinking."
Offline, for a friend I know in real life, it's a different story. I was limiting my response to MFP, but I should have made that distinction.
My reference was actually to an MFP "friend".
Even that situation, to me at least, is different than someone in the forums pleading for someone to give them motivation.0 -
On one hand I agree, and yet I get really angry with people who ask for help and then proceed to shoot down every helpful response that comes his or her way. They want the easy answer, the magic bullet, and there never is one. I admit I'm not the most sympathetic person, though.
In these cases I may internally conclude they are not ready and walk away. I also find that quite frustrating, as well as the learned helplessness behavior -- people asking how to do quite obvious and simple things, people not bothering to learn how the site works, stuff like that.
For me, I figured out a plan for myself and got started before coming on here, and some seem to think they deserve praise for merely announcing a plan (which I think can be counterproductive). I can't understand not being basically self-directed. But I try to be understanding that people are different and what doesn't make sense to me isn't inherently wrong.0 -
Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't
Because:Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't think that there is anything that I can do to motivate a stranger. To me, motivation is too personal to get from people on the internet. I'm motivated by my health and physical goals and by wanting to be a good example to my daughter and a healthy partner for my husband. I might admire somebody online for changes they've made, but I don't equate that with being motivated by that person.
andtincanonastring wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »I think this is nonsense.
Listen, motivation, will-power, dedication, all of these things come from within. No amount of coddling or (conversely) shaming is going to push someone over the edge to make their own decisions. That's something they have to do.
In my opinion, you either want it or you don't. You either put the effort in or you don't. Period. And I have definitely seen people who put very little effort into weight loss, see very little results, and then want to be validated for it. They want to be told they're "special" and something must be wrong with them because it shouldn't be so hard.
Let's not put the responsibility of someone's success on others, because the fact of the matter is their own actions determine their failures.
The people who are ready need a little kick in the pants on occasion. Those who are crying out, "Motivate me!" just aren't reachable and anything I say is only going to drive them further away.
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rainbowbow wrote: »I think this is nonsense.
Listen, motivation, will-power, dedication, all of these things come from within. No amount of coddling or (conversely) shaming is going to push someone over the edge to make their own decisions. That's something they have to do.
In my opinion, you either want it or you don't. You either put the effort in or you don't. Period. And I have definitely seen people who put very little effort into weight loss, see very little results, and then want to be validated for it. They want to be told they're "special" and something must be wrong with them because it shouldn't be so hard.
Let's not put the responsibility of someone's success on others, because the fact of the matter is their own actions determine their failures.
I respond really well to extrinsic motivation. I just don't get it from unknown people on a website. For example my sister will text me sometimes in the morning to get my *kitten* up out of bed and go run. I also respond to my personal trainer to motivate me through a work out. It's part of why I pay him...the encouragement. I have also had people yell, cheer, and clap at me to continue at the end of a half marathon when it looked like I was going to sit on the side of the road and just cry. Their yelling helped me keep going.
Whether the motivation is extrinsic or intrinsic though, you still have to be willing to listen to it.0 -
I don't think there's anything wrong with a few pointed questions, if those questions help someone face whatever internal roadblocks are keeping them from moving forward. BUT, regardless of the words that anyone uses, regardless of how kind or blunt those words are, someone who is being lazy is not going to move forward until they stop being lazy. Someone who cannot motivate themselves when necessary is not going to succeed in the long run, because there are challenges out there that can ambush us at a moments' notice, and that we have to face alone. The sooner a person a realizes that, and grows the strength to deal with it, the more quickly they will achieve success. That doesn't mean we can't support each other and motivate each other to become self-motivated, or even provide a shoulder when necessary or a kick in the butt on another day. But I do think its important AND helpful to call people out for being whiny and making excuses, as well as to congratulate them on their successes or even just on their attempts. Even you say that at times you had to dig deep and figure out what to do next. I don't think you would have done that if you hadn't sometimes kicked your own butt to do better.0
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I will drop a "you're not ready" after 3 pages of suggestions for that person who isn't a morning person, works 10 hours a day without breaks but actually gets breaks and doesn't take them, who is too tired after work, who has kids, etc.
I'm not sorry.0 -
@ninerbuffLike to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
I am often stumped answering a question like this myself. It's not like I'm living in their skin.
I read a Psychology Today article recently that described procrastination as the adult form of "I don't wanna". That got me thinking, hard. I can definitely relate to that feeling. So if my deep-down is putting the brakes on and screaming, "I don't wanna," what's bothering me? For a toddler fighting bed-time, the real message may be, "I want to spend more time with you." I spend a fair amount of time digging down to why I am fighting something that is obviously good for me. The simple answer may be, "This doesn't interest me any more." If so, what else can I do instead? Obviously toddlers need to go to bed sometime, and adult fitness failures have to be addressed before the grim reaper comes calling. I am a firm believer that the average adult can outwit a toddler, and at my age, I should be able to take down my own barriers.
So I approach newcomers to the motivation game with the same attitude of inquiry. I ask questions. Let them do their own thinking, and hopefully jolt them out of the rut they've got themselves in to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gugjMmXQrDo
This anti-smoking campaign used a technique called Inside-Out Reflection.0 -
sherbear702 wrote: »I don't think I've ever seen someone flat out call an OP lazy. It's been my experience that people get on here, complain about x,y, or z, receive truthful and blunt advice about their "problem" and then get butt hurt because they aren't being coddled and given the responses they want to hear.
This. Basically what I posted above, just phrased differently!
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tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I generally don't address it. If someone is posting that, IMO they don't have the inner-drive yet to make the changes and anything I say about finding it is going to fall on deaf ears. I try to help people who are ready for help.
Maybe most of the time, but not always. A friend started with a very bleak and discouraged attitude, but I encouraged her just to START and see if the motivation didn't follow, and she's had a lot of success. Sort of like a saying I once heard- "Act yourself into the right way of thinking."
Offline, for a friend I know in real life, it's a different story. I was limiting my response to MFP, but I should have made that distinction.
My reference was actually to an MFP "friend".
Even that situation, to me at least, is different than someone in the forums pleading for someone to give them motivation.
That's where I met this friend!
(I'll be quiet now!) 0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I generally don't address it. If someone is posting that, IMO they don't have the inner-drive yet to make the changes and anything I say about finding it is going to fall on deaf ears. I try to help people who are ready for help.
Maybe most of the time, but not always. A friend started with a very bleak and discouraged attitude, but I encouraged her just to START and see if the motivation didn't follow, and she's had a lot of success. Sort of like a saying I once heard- "Act yourself into the right way of thinking."
Offline, for a friend I know in real life, it's a different story. I was limiting my response to MFP, but I should have made that distinction.
My reference was actually to an MFP "friend".
Even that situation, to me at least, is different than someone in the forums pleading for someone to give them motivation.
That's where I met this friend! (I'll be quiet now!)
That's just a wall I'd rather not bang my head against!0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think that I would call somebody lazy. However, I will at times state that a person is not dedicated or ready to make a change.
I think "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?" is the type of pointed question that needs to be asked for someone to have that gut-check moment (pun somewhat intended). I don't think that's dismissive or calling someone lazy.
I this this is a useful question "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?"
I think the opinion "You're not ready" is invalidating, and will cut off further dialog if the recipient gets defensive.
I've posted the "you're not ready" thing a few times. And I don't mean it in an invalidating way. It's meant for the reader to see it and think "How am I not ready? What do I need to do to be ready?" It's meant to get the reader to think about the choices they're making and question things further. Perhaps it does cut off dialog. I guess that depends on the OP. But I sure as heck hope that the person reading that statement will begin to question things and search for an answer, whether they truly aren't ready or if they're just pussyfooting around or if they just need to buckledown or whathaveyou.
I think asking "What do you need to do to be ready?" would get someone thinking in the right direction much more easily than "You're not ready".0 -
More about:Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
This kind of reminds me of joining in a chat discussion, and seeing other posters complain, "I'm bored; entertain me". This isn't television. It's interactive. You get out of the conversation only what you put in to it. I learned early on when I chatted about real life, even if it was about the cat strolling across my keyboard, the discussion would liven up. We're craving genuine interaction and real life....glued to our keyboards. Ironic, isn't it? So I contribute, and be as real as I can be. Then I get back.
How can I get in the skin of another person who is demotivated, stuck, disinterested? I can't glue my motivation in to their head. They have to dig deep and figure out why they don't want to do what they know they must. It might be a problem of mis-perception, thinking they need to sweat like J-Lo in the third hour of her live concert, or eat grapefruit and cottage cheese the rest of their life. Maybe the person is a solid introvert and is trying to love team sports. Redirect them. Maybe they love their toast and jam. Coach them how they can fit toast and jam in to a slimmer life.0 -
I will say, I don't respond to many of the "I don't have any motivation" threads, and often it depends on the attitude of the poster. If a person strikes me as feeling overwhelmed, that's one thing. But a while back there was a guy bemoaning the fact he needed to lose 100 lbs, but going on and on about how great he felt his life was and didn't really want to change it. I think I may have actually used "You're not ready" in that case.0
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@rainbowbow - is kindness the same as coddling?0
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tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I generally don't address it. If someone is posting that, IMO they don't have the inner-drive yet to make the changes and anything I say about finding it is going to fall on deaf ears. I try to help people who are ready for help.
Maybe most of the time, but not always. A friend started with a very bleak and discouraged attitude, but I encouraged her just to START and see if the motivation didn't follow, and she's had a lot of success. Sort of like a saying I once heard- "Act yourself into the right way of thinking."
Offline, for a friend I know in real life, it's a different story. I was limiting my response to MFP, but I should have made that distinction.
My reference was actually to an MFP "friend".
Even that situation, to me at least, is different than someone in the forums pleading for someone to give them motivation.
I think the difference is this--some people consider others on the MFP forum strangers who they can get advice from, while others see MFP as more of a community where people can form relationships. I fall more into the first category, but we can all use MFP as we like.0 -
@nadler64On one hand I agree, and yet I get really angry with people who ask for help and then proceed to shoot down every helpful response that comes his or her way. They want the easy answer, the magic bullet, and there never is one. I admit I'm not the most sympathetic person, though.
I've seen this too. I saw it yesterday. I think the poster was depressed and frankly could not see the rainbow for the rain. She was poor, shut-in, living off ramen noodles, and didn't see any reason to cook a nice meal just for herself. Again, I try and use Socratic questioning to jolt such people out of their funk. Sometimes it works.
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What no on on this thread realizes is all the times I created fake accounts asking for motivation so people would feel okay to toot their own horn about their successes.
Oh well...0 -
@nadler64On one hand I agree, and yet I get really angry with people who ask for help and then proceed to shoot down every helpful response that comes his or her way. They want the easy answer, the magic bullet, and there never is one. I admit I'm not the most sympathetic person, though.
I've seen this too. I saw it yesterday. I think the poster was depressed and frankly could not see the rainbow for the rain. She was poor, shut-in, living off ramen noodles, and didn't see any reason to cook a nice meal just for herself. Again, I try and use Socratic questioning to jolt such people out of their funk. Sometimes it works.
I will do this, but sometimes it's exhausting to do. Sometimes you really have to be invested in the person. Is that lazy on my part? Maybe, but it also depends on what they give back to you. If they are completely defeatist, and unwilling to budge I normally just drop it and move on.0 -
@lyttlewon, a fine strategy to move on if you don't see any action. One of my favourite quotes:
The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right.
Henry Ward Beecher
Your input is rattling around in their head. When they are prepared to work it through, they will.0 -
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Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I usually tell people to write out a list of whys. Why do you want to lose weight? What do you want to accomplish (physically and mentally) by reaching your goal? Then I tell them to keep the list on them and read it whenever they feel like falling off their plan or skip a workout.
I also think that while motivation is great, determination is the key to succeeding.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think that I would call somebody lazy. However, I will at times state that a person is not dedicated or ready to make a change.
I think "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?" is the type of pointed question that needs to be asked for someone to have that gut-check moment (pun somewhat intended). I don't think that's dismissive or calling someone lazy.
I this this is a useful question "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?"
I think the opinion "You're not ready" is invalidating, and will cut off further dialog if the recipient gets defensive.
I've posted the "you're not ready" thing a few times. And I don't mean it in an invalidating way. It's meant for the reader to see it and think "How am I not ready? What do I need to do to be ready?" It's meant to get the reader to think about the choices they're making and question things further. Perhaps it does cut off dialog. I guess that depends on the OP. But I sure as heck hope that the person reading that statement will begin to question things and search for an answer, whether they truly aren't ready or if they're just pussyfooting around or if they just need to buckledown or whathaveyou.
I think asking "What do you need to do to be ready?" would get someone thinking in the right direction much more easily than "You're not ready".
I think that's much more helpful. I think "you're not ready" FEELS pretty much like code for "you're lazy" and "you don't really want this." If someone's here and trying to log, they probably want it.
I have a tough time losing weight. Even at high weights it comes off super slow. Forget plateaus, every week is a plateau. I also have some emotional/addiction issues with food. I don't post "why am I not losing weight" threads because I know why. I turned to that hamburger for solace one day and that turned into 3 days etc etc. Work hard and stay motivated for a month, lose some weight, gain most or all of it back in a week of bad behavior. Then have to start again, a month lost. When I read threads of people similar to me, people will either offer suggestions "just cook your own meals from home!" duh! Like if I had a grip on this I would be doing that already, right? But I don't post. Because I don't need a bunch of people telling me a week of screwing up means I don't "really want it" or "am not ready". I'll never be ready if that's the case.
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@rainbowbow - is kindness the same as coddling?
kindness is providing people with information and sharing the knowledge they need to succeed.
Coddling is making it my personal mission to MAKE them succeed.0 -
Did you see my suggestions as somehow forcing success on others, @rainbowbow ?0
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Did you see my suggestions as somehow forcing success on others, @rainbowbow ?
You're suggesting that providing people the information they need is not enough.
We need to coddle them, ask them pointed questions, help them find their internal motivation and hold their hand. As i stated earlier, once someone has the know-how of what needs to be done to succeed it becomes their CHOICE. Nothing you or I say is going to convince them to take the steps they personally need to succeed. The motivation needed to begin will very quickly come down to dedication they need to continue.
We are not personal counselors and i see nothing wrong with providing people with information and knowledge or personal experience for free. If anything, i see that as kindness. What i think is overstepping is trying to act like their own personal therapist.
edit: you also implied that if we aren't acting as such, we are giving them the "lazy" answer.0 -
@sheermomentum , what does it mean when we say someone is "lazy"? Does such a thing even exist?
For instance, I read a seventeenth century French aristocrat call contemporary peasants "lazy" because all they did was lay in their dirty hovels all winter. I strongly suspect the problem was that these peasants were stuck in a social system where initiative got them nothing but trouble. Or they were starving. Or both.0 -
blues4miles wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think that I would call somebody lazy. However, I will at times state that a person is not dedicated or ready to make a change.
I think "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?" is the type of pointed question that needs to be asked for someone to have that gut-check moment (pun somewhat intended). I don't think that's dismissive or calling someone lazy.
I this this is a useful question "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?"
I think the opinion "You're not ready" is invalidating, and will cut off further dialog if the recipient gets defensive.
I've posted the "you're not ready" thing a few times. And I don't mean it in an invalidating way. It's meant for the reader to see it and think "How am I not ready? What do I need to do to be ready?" It's meant to get the reader to think about the choices they're making and question things further. Perhaps it does cut off dialog. I guess that depends on the OP. But I sure as heck hope that the person reading that statement will begin to question things and search for an answer, whether they truly aren't ready or if they're just pussyfooting around or if they just need to buckledown or whathaveyou.
I think asking "What do you need to do to be ready?" would get someone thinking in the right direction much more easily than "You're not ready".
I think that's much more helpful. I think "you're not ready" FEELS pretty much like code for "you're lazy" and "you don't really want this." If someone's here and trying to log, they probably want it.
I have a tough time losing weight. Even at high weights it comes off super slow. Forget plateaus, every week is a plateau. I also have some emotional/addiction issues with food. I don't post "why am I not losing weight" threads because I know why. I turned to that hamburger for solace one day and that turned into 3 days etc etc. Work hard and stay motivated for a month, lose some weight, gain most or all of it back in a week of bad behavior. Then have to start again, a month lost. When I read threads of people similar to me, people will either offer suggestions "just cook your own meals from home!" duh! Like if I had a grip on this I would be doing that already, right? But I don't post. Because I don't need a bunch of people telling me a week of screwing up means I don't "really want it" or "am not ready". I'll never be ready if that's the case.
This is why it's only used in certain situations. For example, in a thread 5 pages long where the OP refutes any and all advice. Or the OP has 1,001 excuses for not being able to do something. That's when I typically pull out the "you're not ready". Because either they're not ready, or they need to take a deeper look at things and question themselves.0
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