Calling out Lazy is the Lazy answer
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I think this is nonsense.
Listen, motivation, will-power, dedication, all of these things come from within. No amount of coddling or (conversely) shaming is going to push someone over the edge to make their own decisions. That's something they have to do.
In my opinion, you either want it or you don't. You either put the effort in or you don't. Period. And I have definitely seen people who put very little effort into weight loss, see very little results, and then want to be validated for it. They want to be told they're "special" and something must be wrong with them because it shouldn't be so hard.
Let's not put the responsibility of someone's success on others, because the fact of the matter is their own actions determine their failures.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think that I would call somebody lazy. However, I will at times state that a person is not dedicated or ready to make a change.
I think "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?" is the type of pointed question that needs to be asked for someone to have that gut-check moment (pun somewhat intended). I don't think that's dismissive or calling someone lazy.
I this this is a useful question "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?"
I think the opinion "You're not ready" is invalidating, and will cut off further dialog if the recipient gets defensive.
Yes, I agree with this distinction. Also, we can have our own well-grounded opinions based on what the OP says, but we don't really know. I do tend to think a certain degree of self-direction which is often apparently lacking is essential to being ready, but I express an opinion that a poster is not ready to that poster, I don't think. I think the pointed question can be helpful, however.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think that I would call somebody lazy. However, I will at times state that a person is not dedicated or ready to make a change.
I think "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?" is the type of pointed question that needs to be asked for someone to have that gut-check moment (pun somewhat intended). I don't think that's dismissive or calling someone lazy.
I this this is a useful question "Are you sure you're ready to make this type of change?"
I think the opinion "You're not ready" is invalidating, and will cut off further dialog if the recipient gets defensive.
I've posted the "you're not ready" thing a few times. And I don't mean it in an invalidating way. It's meant for the reader to see it and think "How am I not ready? What do I need to do to be ready?" It's meant to get the reader to think about the choices they're making and question things further. Perhas it does cut off dialog. I guess that depends on the OP. But I sure as heck hope that the person reading that statement will begin to question things and search for an answer, whether they truly aren't ready or if they're just pussyfooting around or if they just need to buckledown or whathaveyou.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I generally don't address it. If someone is posting that, IMO they don't have the inner-drive yet to make the changes and anything I say about finding it is going to fall on deaf ears. I try to help people who are ready for help.
Maybe most of the time, but not always. A friend started with a very bleak and discouraged attitude, but I encouraged her just to START and see if the motivation didn't follow, and she's had a lot of success. Sort of like a saying I once heard- "Act yourself into the right way of thinking."0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I generally don't address it. If someone is posting that, IMO they don't have the inner-drive yet to make the changes and anything I say about finding it is going to fall on deaf ears. I try to help people who are ready for help.
+1
I'll sometimes give my 'Motivation is Fleeting, Find Your DETERMINATION' speech, but as @tincanonastring indicates, it generally falls on deaf ears. Motivation, determination, whatever you want to call it, has to come from within the individual. It is very difficult, if not impossible, for an external source - let alone a *virtual* external source to have much impact in helping someone to find it.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »I think this is nonsense.
Listen, motivation, will-power, dedication, all of these things come from within. No amount of coddling or (conversely) shaming is going to push someone over the edge to make their own decisions. That's something they have to do.
In my opinion, you either want it or you don't. You either put the effort in or you don't. Period. And I have definitely seen people who put very little effort into weight loss, see very little results, and then want to be validated for it. They want to be told they're "special" and something must be wrong with them because it shouldn't be so hard.
Let's not put the responsibility of someone's success on others, because the fact of the matter is their own actions determine their failures.
This is why I don't respond to those threads. The people who are ready need a little kick in the pants on occasion. Those who are crying out, "Motivate me!" just aren't reachable and anything I say is only going to drive them further away.0 -
On one hand I agree, and yet I get really angry with people who ask for help and then proceed to shoot down every helpful response that comes his or her way. They want the easy answer, the magic bullet, and there never is one. I admit I'm not the most sympathetic person, though.0
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tincanonastring wrote: »Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I generally don't address it. If someone is posting that, IMO they don't have the inner-drive yet to make the changes and anything I say about finding it is going to fall on deaf ears. I try to help people who are ready for help.
Maybe most of the time, but not always. A friend started with a very bleak and discouraged attitude, but I encouraged her just to START and see if the motivation didn't follow, and she's had a lot of success. Sort of like a saying I once heard- "Act yourself into the right way of thinking."
Offline, for a friend I know in real life, it's a different story. I was limiting my response to MFP, but I should have made that distinction.0 -
jgnatca- how about posting that link you shared recently (I think it was you) about helping people that don't want to change?0
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I don't think I've ever seen someone flat out call an OP lazy. It's been my experience that people get on here, complain about x,y, or z, receive truthful and blunt advice about their "problem" and then get butt hurt because they aren't being coddled and given the responses they want to hear.
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tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I generally don't address it. If someone is posting that, IMO they don't have the inner-drive yet to make the changes and anything I say about finding it is going to fall on deaf ears. I try to help people who are ready for help.
Maybe most of the time, but not always. A friend started with a very bleak and discouraged attitude, but I encouraged her just to START and see if the motivation didn't follow, and she's had a lot of success. Sort of like a saying I once heard- "Act yourself into the right way of thinking."
Offline, for a friend I know in real life, it's a different story. I was limiting my response to MFP, but I should have made that distinction.
My reference was actually to an MFP "friend".0 -
Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
If said that vaguely, then I would ask them to think about why they want to lose weight/get healthy and really focus on the specifics and why it matters to them.
If someone has a lot to lose I'd suggest breaking it down into smaller goals including process goals they have control over (going to the gym and exercising 3 times that week for at least 30 minutes, vs. losing 2 lbs).
If someone seems not to believe it will do any good, I'll talk about how when I first lost weight I didn't believe it would work either (crazy as that sounds), and that what helped me was realizing that apart from the weight I could control how fit and healthy I was, and even if the weight didn't come off I'd be as healthy and fit through eating well and exercise as possible (and of course I lost weight easily enough when I did that).
I also might explore their struggles -- so often people on MFP try extreme diets and fail over and over and it's because they have in their heads the idea that a diet must be extreme or miserable to work (and maybe it's an element of self punishment). So I stress that I found the whole process pleasant and enjoyable, since I didn't do anything extreme or self-punishing, a conscious choice when I started.
Beyond that, depending on the specifics of their difficulties I would share anything that I did to deal with similar issues.0 -
Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't answer those questions. I don't think that there is anything that I can do to motivate a stranger. To me, motivation is too personal to get from people on the internet. I'm motivated by my health and physical goals and by wanting to be a good example to my daughter and a healthy partner for my husband. I might admire somebody online for changes they've made, but I don't equate that with being motivated by that person.
I agree with you and I'm the same way, but sometimes I DO respond to those posts and try to make the point that reliance on motivation is not the key to long-term success. That is done by creating new habits. Sometimes you'll feel like working out and sometimes you won't, but if it's already factored into your day or week as a habit, you just do it. Same thing with meal planning and logging. Motivation and support is great, but reliance upon it for your own success is not.
As always, @jgnatca, thank you for your insightful post!0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I generally don't address it. If someone is posting that, IMO they don't have the inner-drive yet to make the changes and anything I say about finding it is going to fall on deaf ears. I try to help people who are ready for help.
Maybe most of the time, but not always. A friend started with a very bleak and discouraged attitude, but I encouraged her just to START and see if the motivation didn't follow, and she's had a lot of success. Sort of like a saying I once heard- "Act yourself into the right way of thinking."
Offline, for a friend I know in real life, it's a different story. I was limiting my response to MFP, but I should have made that distinction.
My reference was actually to an MFP "friend".
Even that situation, to me at least, is different than someone in the forums pleading for someone to give them motivation.0 -
On one hand I agree, and yet I get really angry with people who ask for help and then proceed to shoot down every helpful response that comes his or her way. They want the easy answer, the magic bullet, and there never is one. I admit I'm not the most sympathetic person, though.
In these cases I may internally conclude they are not ready and walk away. I also find that quite frustrating, as well as the learned helplessness behavior -- people asking how to do quite obvious and simple things, people not bothering to learn how the site works, stuff like that.
For me, I figured out a plan for myself and got started before coming on here, and some seem to think they deserve praise for merely announcing a plan (which I think can be counterproductive). I can't understand not being basically self-directed. But I try to be understanding that people are different and what doesn't make sense to me isn't inherently wrong.0 -
Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't
Because:Like to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't think that there is anything that I can do to motivate a stranger. To me, motivation is too personal to get from people on the internet. I'm motivated by my health and physical goals and by wanting to be a good example to my daughter and a healthy partner for my husband. I might admire somebody online for changes they've made, but I don't equate that with being motivated by that person.
andtincanonastring wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »I think this is nonsense.
Listen, motivation, will-power, dedication, all of these things come from within. No amount of coddling or (conversely) shaming is going to push someone over the edge to make their own decisions. That's something they have to do.
In my opinion, you either want it or you don't. You either put the effort in or you don't. Period. And I have definitely seen people who put very little effort into weight loss, see very little results, and then want to be validated for it. They want to be told they're "special" and something must be wrong with them because it shouldn't be so hard.
Let's not put the responsibility of someone's success on others, because the fact of the matter is their own actions determine their failures.
The people who are ready need a little kick in the pants on occasion. Those who are crying out, "Motivate me!" just aren't reachable and anything I say is only going to drive them further away.
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rainbowbow wrote: »I think this is nonsense.
Listen, motivation, will-power, dedication, all of these things come from within. No amount of coddling or (conversely) shaming is going to push someone over the edge to make their own decisions. That's something they have to do.
In my opinion, you either want it or you don't. You either put the effort in or you don't. Period. And I have definitely seen people who put very little effort into weight loss, see very little results, and then want to be validated for it. They want to be told they're "special" and something must be wrong with them because it shouldn't be so hard.
Let's not put the responsibility of someone's success on others, because the fact of the matter is their own actions determine their failures.
I respond really well to extrinsic motivation. I just don't get it from unknown people on a website. For example my sister will text me sometimes in the morning to get my *kitten* up out of bed and go run. I also respond to my personal trainer to motivate me through a work out. It's part of why I pay him...the encouragement. I have also had people yell, cheer, and clap at me to continue at the end of a half marathon when it looked like I was going to sit on the side of the road and just cry. Their yelling helped me keep going.
Whether the motivation is extrinsic or intrinsic though, you still have to be willing to listen to it.0 -
I don't think there's anything wrong with a few pointed questions, if those questions help someone face whatever internal roadblocks are keeping them from moving forward. BUT, regardless of the words that anyone uses, regardless of how kind or blunt those words are, someone who is being lazy is not going to move forward until they stop being lazy. Someone who cannot motivate themselves when necessary is not going to succeed in the long run, because there are challenges out there that can ambush us at a moments' notice, and that we have to face alone. The sooner a person a realizes that, and grows the strength to deal with it, the more quickly they will achieve success. That doesn't mean we can't support each other and motivate each other to become self-motivated, or even provide a shoulder when necessary or a kick in the butt on another day. But I do think its important AND helpful to call people out for being whiny and making excuses, as well as to congratulate them on their successes or even just on their attempts. Even you say that at times you had to dig deep and figure out what to do next. I don't think you would have done that if you hadn't sometimes kicked your own butt to do better.0
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I will drop a "you're not ready" after 3 pages of suggestions for that person who isn't a morning person, works 10 hours a day without breaks but actually gets breaks and doesn't take them, who is too tired after work, who has kids, etc.
I'm not sorry.0 -
@ninerbuffLike to hear some here on how they address the question "I need motivation or need to be motivated".
I am often stumped answering a question like this myself. It's not like I'm living in their skin.
I read a Psychology Today article recently that described procrastination as the adult form of "I don't wanna". That got me thinking, hard. I can definitely relate to that feeling. So if my deep-down is putting the brakes on and screaming, "I don't wanna," what's bothering me? For a toddler fighting bed-time, the real message may be, "I want to spend more time with you." I spend a fair amount of time digging down to why I am fighting something that is obviously good for me. The simple answer may be, "This doesn't interest me any more." If so, what else can I do instead? Obviously toddlers need to go to bed sometime, and adult fitness failures have to be addressed before the grim reaper comes calling. I am a firm believer that the average adult can outwit a toddler, and at my age, I should be able to take down my own barriers.
So I approach newcomers to the motivation game with the same attitude of inquiry. I ask questions. Let them do their own thinking, and hopefully jolt them out of the rut they've got themselves in to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gugjMmXQrDo
This anti-smoking campaign used a technique called Inside-Out Reflection.0
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