Calling out Lazy is the Lazy answer
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@kimny72 I think silence is fine, especially if you see nothing more you can contribute to a situation.
What I dislike is calling out people as lazy. That's far too simple an answer and unfair.
Isn't that what you did in your OP, though. I like most of this post, just not the way it started out by insulting people. And imho that's going to set the tone for the responses you get.0 -
chelsy0587 wrote: »Wish I could "like" this post
Ditto.
I have seen posters called lazy on many occasions. Or other derogatory adjectives that are just as unhelpful.
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blues4miles wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »Did you see my suggestions as somehow forcing success on others, @rainbowbow ?
You're suggesting that providing people the information they need is not enough.
We need to coddle them, ask them pointed questions, help them find their internal motivation and hold their hand. As i stated earlier, once someone has the know-how of what needs to be done to succeed it becomes their CHOICE. Nothing you or I say is going to convince them to take the steps they personally need to succeed. The motivation needed to begin will very quickly come down to dedication they need to continue.
We are not personal counselors and i see nothing wrong with providing people with information and knowledge or personal experience for free. If anything, i see that as kindness. What i think is overstepping is trying to act like their own personal therapist.
edit: you also implied that if we aren't acting as such, we are giving them the "lazy" answer.
ITA. If someone is dealing with the type of issues that require this level of probing to lead them down the path to "being ready", they need a personal coach or counselor. It isn't the responsibility of volunteers on a forum to gently go with them on this process. Other than saying, "perhaps you need to put more thought into why you want to make this change and what is psychologically holding you back", anyone dealing with the lack of self-esteem, fear of failure, and emotional issues with food that are most likely involved should NOT be going through that with random strangers on the interwebs. It's fascinating stuff, but personally I don't think it is any of our responsibility or privilege (depending on how you look at it) to go there. All we can and I think should do, is give them the facts, vouch for our experience, and suggest they look deeper themselves.
Well to be fair, no one is MAKING you respond to those types of threads. We're not all volunteers in some kind of weight loss army. We're just people all trying to lose/gain/maintain weight using the same system or modifications of the same system. You make it sound like you'd list posting forum responses on your charity volunteer experience.
That's not really what I was saying. Based on OP's follow up posts, it sounds like she thinks rather than telling people they don't sound ready to do the work, we should be asking them carefully worded questions to help them figure out what is holding them back. I don't think NOT asking those questions and NOT taking the time to guide newbies down that psychological path is lazy. And there are lots of people here every day who have lost the weight, are happily in maintenance, but they stay on the forums to try to help people who have questions. I just don't think what OP is discussing should be expected of people.
I don't think she's saying it should be expected of people, but you also have the choice not to respond. If taking the time to go through the process with someone isn't something you have time for or feel like doing, perhaps just not responding at all is the better way to go. It's not like success is based on whether users X, Y, and Z respond to your topic, and that you have to have an answer from them in order move forward. There are plenty of people in the community who are willing to take the time, so I think she is suggesting that rather than a "lazy" or soundbite answer, move on to another topic.0 -
y'know, I'd like to add that, in my natural state, I'm one of the laziest people I've ever known. For whatever genetic or psychological reason, I can just be happy as a clam sitting on my butt eating chips and accomplishing nothing. It was a learning process for me to come to know that I can also be happy NOT being lazy...maybe even happier.
Is your main point really that, if we do actually think its productive to point out that one problem a person has is that they're just being lazy, it CAN potentially be done without being a total a-hole, and that this approach might even be more productive? Cuz, well, yeah.0 -
We got a little derailed with the motivation topic, but back to the point about calling someone lazy. Sometimes people need that. I don't agree that this is a "mean people" thread, but I get that posters are frustrated when the truth is taken as being mean. If someone is coming up with excuse after excuse about why they can't exercise even if they are physically able (just as an example), it's appropriate and truthful to call them lazy. That's just one of the responses they will receive. Some will couch it in nicer terms. Others will probe them further with questions. A few will enable the laziness.
Sometimes the "you're being lazy" gets through...
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1088600/dear-mean-people-of-mfp#latest0 -
@kimny72 I think silence is fine, especially if you see nothing more you can contribute to a situation.
What I dislike is calling out people as lazy. That's far too simple an answer and unfair.
Not always, although I don't do it.
I gained a lot of weight when I had a stressful job, worked all the time, and did not manage my life well. I would have claimed that I had no choice, since I didn't have time to cook (or shop), let alone to work out. (I controlled my weight when younger by exercising a good bit and the job came with perks like lots of restaurant meals and the ability to order food from lots of good restaurants if you stayed 'til 9.)
But at some point I realized that not everyone I worked with was fat or gaining weight. Most, in fact, were not. And it hit me that they were prioritizing differently and managing better. It was not, actually, too hard for me to take control of my weight. And so I did.
Years later I regained, but it was again helpful that I'd had that prior realization. Not controlling my weight was a choice, a decision that I had made (if only because I'd not done other things), and not because my life was harder than other people's.
I have never been a lazy person, but I can be lazy in some aspects of my life (too prone to the "I deserve this to make up for that" nonsense). Realizing that I could too do things differently and was choosing not to (being lazy) was important. It was even helpful when I spent a couple of years (2012 and 2013, specifically) continuing to be lazy about it, since I decided I did not yet want to change enough to do it. But that was my choice. I was super busy during that time period, but I still had the ability to lose weight if I had been willing to do it. I don't beat myself up for not, but accepting this responsibility is important to me.0 -
I won't call the "I need motivation" topic a derailment. There is a certain contingent of the lost and needy that pop in here. Depending on how they ask for help, it's difficult to be helpful.0
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Best doctor I ever met told me that it was time to think that my post-pneumonia can't breathe attacks might be all in my head
Shocked the hell out of me
He told me that strong people have the most issues with losing that kind of control
He was mean, by some of your standards
He helped me get on the road to fixing myself
My trainer tells me I can do it, tells me he doesn't care if I want to stop...and I do it
I am motivated by a bit of "mean" clearly
On the flip side touchy-feely softly pandering gets on my last nerve0 -
As part of this discussion, @lemurcat12 I did a quick search on the word "lazy". People are much more likely to call themselves lazy.
I have used it to describe myself as I will always seek the simpler way to do a job. I attribute my laziness as an asset when looking to make a job more efficient.
My question got lost in the thread somewhere, but what is laziness, really? I maintain it's an outward symptom of something else.0 -
As part of this discussion, @lemurcat12 I did a quick search on the word "lazy". People are much more likely to call themselves lazy.
I have used it to describe myself as I will always seek the simpler way to do a job. I attribute my laziness as an asset when looking to make a job more efficient.
My question got lost in the thread somewhere, but what is laziness, really? I maintain it's an outward symptom of something else.
I think it's difficult to quantify laziness for another person, at least when it comes to diet and exercise. For some people, scheduling a workout and hitting the gym regularly is no big deal. For others, trying to find time to exercise can be a tremendous challenge. Yet some would tell a person saying they can't find time to exercise that they just don't want to lose weight badly enough.
I don't know that your question necessarily has an easy answer, but I could just be too lazy to figure it out.
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Lazy=adverse to labor, indisposed to action or effort. Works for me.
I think it's real. Is it your assertion that people are only indisposed to effort if they have some psychological block? Or that if they choose one form of action over another that that can't be called laziness?0 -
For the record I also have attributed being more efficient to being lazy and considered it a good thing in some ways.0
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@jgnatca
Lazy basically means you are unwilling or disinclined to do an activity. My ex-husband used to all me lazy. I would work all day, come home to raise our children, cook dinner, and then I would watch TV instead of doing the dishes. Not doing the dishes made me lazy. I HATED IT. Of all the things I did in my day that one thing made me a lazy person.
Was I lazy about doing the dishes? Yes. I would rather run three miles.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »For the record I also have attributed being more efficient to being lazy and considered it a good thing in some ways.
LOL I did this on when someone on this site told me I need to lift weights so I can carry all my groceries in at once (which surprisingly has happened more than once). I heard my husband telling me I'm going to dislocate a shoulder just because I'm too lazy to make more trips to the car.
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As part of this discussion, @lemurcat12 I did a quick search on the word "lazy". People are much more likely to call themselves lazy.
I have used it to describe myself as I will always seek the simpler way to do a job. I attribute my laziness as an asset when looking to make a job more efficient.
My question got lost in the thread somewhere, but what is laziness, really? I maintain it's an outward symptom of something else.
I think it's difficult to quantify laziness for another person, at least when it comes to diet and exercise. For some people, scheduling a workout and hitting the gym regularly is no big deal. For others, trying to find time to exercise can be a tremendous challenge. Yet some would tell a person saying they can't find time to exercise that they just don't want to lose weight badly enough.
I don't know that your question necessarily has an easy answer, but I could just be too lazy to figure it out.
And for some people it is down to phases in their life
Scheduling a workout and hitting the gym regularly was absolutely beyond me when I was a couch potato
I was an absolute prime lazy- ar$e and had the reasons...mother, worker, wife, householder, family obligations, medical conditions...you name 'em, I got 'em
Until I committed, even when I didn't want to, then I got in the groove and now hitting the gym regularly is no big deal
It was a challenge I took on
Everyone can find the time ...ev-er-y-one! When they stop excusing themselves0 -
As part of this discussion, @lemurcat12 I did a quick search on the word "lazy". People are much more likely to call themselves lazy.
I have used it to describe myself as I will always seek the simpler way to do a job. I attribute my laziness as an asset when looking to make a job more efficient.
My question got lost in the thread somewhere, but what is laziness, really? I maintain it's an outward symptom of something else.
I think it's difficult to quantify laziness for another person, at least when it comes to diet and exercise. For some people, scheduling a workout and hitting the gym regularly is no big deal. For others, trying to find time to exercise can be a tremendous challenge. Yet some would tell a person saying they can't find time to exercise that they just don't want to lose weight badly enough.
I don't know that your question necessarily has an easy answer, but I could just be too lazy to figure it out.
I got strange looks because I will make statements like "I'm too lazy to go get my hair cut or whatever". It's a phrase I use; it actually translates to "I'm not willing to skip gym time to do some other thing that I need to get done", which is probably the opposite of lazy in other people's minds.0 -
Again, I wouldn't call anyone lazy but myself (although I think REALIZING I was being lazy was helpful). Among other things, people will resent it and dig in. But I also see a distinction between acting or being lazy and a statement "you are a lazy person." I'm lazy about stuff I don't want to do (like cleaning out my closets) all the time, but I don't consider myself fundamentally lazy.
Indeed, I think some can use "I'm just lazy, I can't help it, why am I this way" as an excuse for not taking action and presenting themselves as helpless when they are not. Seeing it as a choice -- I am choosing to be lazy or to avoid action or effort -- is likely helpful. Then they can decide if they want to do more or not.
One thing I don't believe is that there are lots of people who really want it but can't do it. Usually it is that you don't really want it vs. the tradeoffs (and you may have an incorrect understanding of what the tradeoffs are). That's why I think figuring out WHY you want to lose weight is important -- it will make you understand whether you really want it differently, maybe make you realize that it is worth making some sacrifices. Also important is realizing it's probably not going to require all the sacrifices that you may be telling yourself or that they won't be so bad.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »For the record I also have attributed being more efficient to being lazy and considered it a good thing in some ways.
LOL I did this on when someone on this site told me I need to lift weights so I can carry all my groceries in at once (which surprisingly has happened more than once). I heard my husband telling me I'm going to dislocate a shoulder just because I'm too lazy to make more trips to the car.
Heh, yes. I live on the 4th floor, and much as I tell myself that making multiple trips would be good exercise, I am impressive in what I can manage to carry up in one trip!0 -
As part of this discussion, @lemurcat12 I did a quick search on the word "lazy". People are much more likely to call themselves lazy.
I have used it to describe myself as I will always seek the simpler way to do a job. I attribute my laziness as an asset when looking to make a job more efficient.
My question got lost in the thread somewhere, but what is laziness, really? I maintain it's an outward symptom of something else.
I think it's difficult to quantify laziness for another person, at least when it comes to diet and exercise. For some people, scheduling a workout and hitting the gym regularly is no big deal. For others, trying to find time to exercise can be a tremendous challenge. Yet some would tell a person saying they can't find time to exercise that they just don't want to lose weight badly enough.
I don't know that your question necessarily has an easy answer, but I could just be too lazy to figure it out.
And for some people it is down to phases in their life
Scheduling a workout and hitting the gym regularly was absolutely beyond me when I was a couch potato
I was an absolute prime lazy- ar$e and had the reasons...mother, worker, wife, householder, family obligations, medical conditions...you name 'em, I got 'em
Until I committed, even when I didn't want to, then I got in the groove and now hitting the gym regularly is no big deal
It was a challenge I took on
Everyone can find the time ...ev-er-y-one! When they stop excusing themselves
I disagree. Not ev-er-y-one can find the time, and if they can't, it's not just because they are making excuses. For example, if you're a parent who needs childcare during your workouts, those childcare areas are only open at certain times. If something comes up that you need to deal with and you miss that time? There goes your workout for the day. Not ev-er-y-one is going to be able to just hit the gym at a later time that day due to other obligations, or have someone else who can watch the kids while they go to they gym at an off-childcare hour.
A lot of success with diet and exercise is due to having access to resources and a support system. Not having access to them doesn't mean someone is just lazy and making excuses, and it can be incredibly frustrating for the person who is wanting to make a change and trying to figure out a way to deal with the obstacles they are facing to be told that they are "being lazy," "don't want it enough," or are "making excuses" by someone in a vastly different situation.0
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