There are 'BAD' foods
Replies
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This conversation does seem like a repeat to me as well.stevencloser wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
Guys, I'm fairly certain I read this same conversation like a year ago.
Right down to the talk about micronutrients in the homemade pizza and the preservatives and white flour in the pizza from the pizza joint.
Same. Possibly even the same person.
And forecaster, how are you so sure the dominoes (or any other pizza joint for that matter) pizza is devoid of micronutrients? Especially when directly comparing the cheeses and pepperoni etc. with each other.
In answer to the question, because of the differences in the flour used. I can't guarantee this for every pizza place, but I know it's true for the bigger chains like dominoes, pizza hut, papa johns. For some micros like magnesium, mine has significantly more because of the flour.
Obviously, it wouldn't be a fair comparison if you get their spinach pizza and ask for extra spinach, and then compare that to my cheese or cheese/pepperoni pizza. But when it comes to comparing the two based on the same toppings, mine will always come out well ahead due to the crust differences.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I would not say that's bad.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I had mentioned earlier in this thread that most people in general don't eat enough nutrient dense food (fruits and vegetables in particular) to truly meet 100% of all RDAs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
It goes back to the nutrient dense vs less nutrient dense idea. Like I said before, while it doesn't me I should eat excessive amounts of it, because my pizza is not made from white flour it's not something that I need to put in the small amount of calories to eat in moderation. Basically, I'd say if you're going to eat dominoes, that's a low nutrient calorie dense food to be eaten in moderation. Not so the case with mine, so that's what I'd say is wrong with their pizza made from white flour.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
so it boils down to the fact that your processing is good, hence your pizza is good; while Dominos processing is bad, hence their pizza is bad…
and what is wrong with white flour?
Just because something is not nutritionally dense, does not make it bad. Unless you know of a person you gets ALL their food, micros, and macros from one source? Or are you saying that you could only eat your pizza and get all your micros, macros, and hit your calorie target for the day?
Again, who gets ALL their micros from one source? If you eat fruits and vegetables to get your micros and have 500 calories left over and eat dominos, is that good or bad?
Way to move the goalposts..
I asked you a simple question. If you get your micros and eat domino's to fill in your last 500 calories is that good or bad?
good, we agree then that domino's pizza is not bad.
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All pizza is good. Its just a fact. So lets all live with that and eat pizza for the betterment of human society.0
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mattyc772014 wrote: »All pizza is good. Its just a fact. So lets all live with that and eat pizza for the betterment of human society.
Amen, brother!!0 -
So far the only beneficial thing I've taken away from this thread, is that now I want pizza.0
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suziecue20 wrote: »I see lots of posts stating that there are no 'bad' foods but if this is the case why do we have expressions like 'naughty but nice' when we have eaten something scrumptious we know we shouldn't have?
I know that with CICO I could spend all or most of my daily calories on foods like full fat cheeses, cakes, pastries, biscuits [cookies], ice cream, deep fried chips [fries], sausages, fatty meat and still lose weight but at what cost to my health?
There are lots of foods that are 'bad' but obviously only when they are eaten in high volume and too frequently.
I eat 'bad' foods occasionally under the premise that 'a little bit of what you fancy does you good' and the fact that they stop me feeling deprived and becoming a self-righteous martyr.
So come on, admit it folks, there are 'bad' foods.
I don't think there are 'bad' foods in the way you mean. There are some foods I wouldn't eat, like fugu sashimi, but that is just a personal risk preference.
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
I had mentioned earlier in this thread that most people in general don't eat enough nutrient dense food (fruits and vegetables in particular) to truly meet 100% of all RDAs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
It goes back to the nutrient dense vs less nutrient dense idea. Like I said before, while it doesn't me I should eat excessive amounts of it, because my pizza is not made from white flour it's not something that I need to put in the small amount of calories to eat in moderation. Basically, I'd say if you're going to eat dominoes, that's a low nutrient calorie dense food to be eaten in moderation. Not so the case with mine, so that's what I'd say is wrong with their pizza made from white flour.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
so it boils down to the fact that your processing is good, hence your pizza is good; while Dominos processing is bad, hence their pizza is bad…
and what is wrong with white flour?
Just because something is not nutritionally dense, does not make it bad. Unless you know of a person you gets ALL their food, micros, and macros from one source? Or are you saying that you could only eat your pizza and get all your micros, macros, and hit your calorie target for the day?
Again, who gets ALL their micros from one source? If you eat fruits and vegetables to get your micros and have 500 calories left over and eat dominos, is that good or bad?
The answer to this issue is to eat more nutrient dense foods.
I don't find it difficult to eat lots of nutrient dense foods (many of which happen to be low cal) and also to eat some lower nutrient foods that I especially like (like cheese).0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I had mentioned earlier in this thread that most people in general don't eat enough nutrient dense food (fruits and vegetables in particular) to truly meet 100% of all RDAs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
It goes back to the nutrient dense vs less nutrient dense idea. Like I said before, while it doesn't me I should eat excessive amounts of it, because my pizza is not made from white flour it's not something that I need to put in the small amount of calories to eat in moderation. Basically, I'd say if you're going to eat dominoes, that's a low nutrient calorie dense food to be eaten in moderation. Not so the case with mine, so that's what I'd say is wrong with their pizza made from white flour.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
so it boils down to the fact that your processing is good, hence your pizza is good; while Dominos processing is bad, hence their pizza is bad…
and what is wrong with white flour?
Just because something is not nutritionally dense, does not make it bad. Unless you know of a person you gets ALL their food, micros, and macros from one source? Or are you saying that you could only eat your pizza and get all your micros, macros, and hit your calorie target for the day?
Again, who gets ALL their micros from one source? If you eat fruits and vegetables to get your micros and have 500 calories left over and eat dominos, is that good or bad?
Way to move the goalposts..
I asked you a simple question. If you get your micros and eat domino's to fill in your last 500 calories is that good or bad?
Bad because it's not Cassano's.
Fair point.ForecasterJason wrote: »
This conversation does seem like a repeat to me as well.stevencloser wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
Guys, I'm fairly certain I read this same conversation like a year ago.
Right down to the talk about micronutrients in the homemade pizza and the preservatives and white flour in the pizza from the pizza joint.
Same. Possibly even the same person.
And forecaster, how are you so sure the dominoes (or any other pizza joint for that matter) pizza is devoid of micronutrients? Especially when directly comparing the cheeses and pepperoni etc. with each other.
In answer to the question, because of the differences in the flour used. I can't guarantee this for every pizza place, but I know it's true for the bigger chains like dominoes, pizza hut, papa johns. For some micros like magnesium, mine has significantly more because of the flour.
Obviously, it wouldn't be a fair comparison if you get their spinach pizza and ask for extra spinach, and then compare that to my cheese or cheese/pepperoni pizza. But when it comes to comparing the two based on the same toppings, mine will always come out well ahead due to the crust differences.
If someone relies on flour for a significant source of their micros, they probably should be eating more vegetables.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »
Cassano's Pizza King.
Best pizza in the world.
@Carlos_421 Are you from Ohio? I thought Cassano's was relative to Dayton, Ohio!
I am and it is!!
I'm actually slightly south of Dayton but we have one in Fairfield and my buddy lives by the one in Middletown.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »
Cassano's Pizza King.
Best pizza in the world.
@Carlos_421 Are you from Ohio? I thought Cassano's was relative to Dayton, Ohio!
I am and it is!!
I'm actually slightly south of Dayton but we have one in Fairfield and my buddy lives by the one in Middletown.
Aye yay! I'm from Dayton, currently in Cbus getting ready for a move to Cincy!!
Sorry to interupt/derail the thread- continue!0 -
There are some food additives that aren't good for you. And often they eventually stop using those when they find a better alternative. Not all food additives are bad for you. Some might cause gastrointestinal problems in high quantities, but you probably wouldn't eat that much of it. And it depends on if you have health conditions that cause you to be more sensitive to those additives.0
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Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »
Cassano's Pizza King.
Best pizza in the world.
@Carlos_421 Are you from Ohio? I thought Cassano's was relative to Dayton, Ohio!
I am and it is!!
I'm actually slightly south of Dayton but we have one in Fairfield and my buddy lives by the one in Middletown.
Aye yay! I'm from Dayton, currently in Cbus getting ready for a move to Cincy!!
Sorry to interupt/derail the thread- continue!
Awesome! We're in a suburb of cincy. Borderline of Fairfield and Forest Park.0 -
I had leftover Reuben pizza for lunch today. Surprisingly, I think it was better reheated in the toaster oven than it was fresh last night.0
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as many have said, no "BAD" food. just foods that don't give my body as much to use for functioning properly as others. I can say i made an unhealthy choice, but no food in and of itself is BAD.0
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
(stuff snipped)ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
Because many have jumped in to defend the "goodness" of yer standard commercial pizza, I feel compelled to say this:
@ForecasterJason, your freshly-ground-whole-grain, sourdough pizza crust sure-nuff sounds better to me. And by "better", I mean "more tasty and satiating" . . . but I'll buy your argument that it's also more nutritious. Sounds like a multi-win, to me.
Where is it that you live, again? And when are you making said pizza?
0 -
What is wrong with artificial sweeteners and artificial dyes? Are they worse than natural ones that cause cancer?alstin2015 wrote: »Of course there are bad foods. Foods with artificial dyes, unnatural chemicals, cancer causing agents, artificial sweetners.some of these are bad at any amount.0 -
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GuitarJerry wrote: »alstin2015 wrote: »Of course there are bad foods. Foods with artificial dyes, unnatural chemicals, cancer causing agents, artificial sweetners.some of these are bad at any amount.
LOL. IT never ends. OK, I would like to see proof. You made the statements, so give me links that prove that these things are real. LOL. I'll be waiting....for a very, very, very, very, very long time. In fact, you can't find them. Because, they don't exist.
You know you're about to get a ton of links to NaturalNews and Mercola, right?0 -
alstin2015 wrote: »Of course there are bad foods. Foods with artificial dyes, unnatural chemicals, cancer causing agents, artificial sweetners.some of these are bad at any amount.
list of said foods...0 -
alstin2015 wrote: »as for foods high in fat or carbohydrates, they are fattening, but not bad
Not even fattening if not eaten beyond energy expenditure.0 -
alstin2015 wrote: »as for foods high in fat or carbohydrates, they are fattening, but not bad
only if you eat them in a caloric surplus.0 -
alstin2015 wrote: »im not gonna give you links. you are correct. i merely consider eating anything unnatural,(i.e. artificial) as bad. the lesser the processing, the better.
How do you decide whether or not something is unnatural? Do you eliminate foods that are the result of human intervention like bananas, corn, wheat, broccoli? Do you reject foods from domesticated animals? Do you reject foods that wouldn't be available to you outside of your specific season or region of the world without modern transportation?0 -
alstin2015 wrote: »im not gonna give you links. you are correct. i merely consider eating anything unnatural,(i.e. artificial) as bad. the lesser the processing, the better.
At least you admit that it's purely subjective on your part, based upon your own beliefs and without science to back it up.as for foods high in fat or carbohydrates, they are fattening, but not bad
No. Food eaten in a caloric surplus is fattening. Any food eaten in a caloric deficit is not, because there is no net fat storage if you're eating in a deficit.0 -
Haha. Not surprisingly, that ranks high on my list of best tasting dinners.ForecasterJason wrote: »
(stuff snipped)ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
Because many have jumped in to defend the "goodness" of yer standard commercial pizza, I feel compelled to say this:
@ForecasterJason, your freshly-ground-whole-grain, sourdough pizza crust sure-nuff sounds better to me. And by "better", I mean "more tasty and satiating" . . . but I'll buy your argument that it's also more nutritious. Sounds like a multi-win, to me.
Where is it that you live, again? And when are you making said pizza?
0 -
alstin2015 wrote: »im not gonna give you links. you are correct. i merely consider eating anything unnatural,(i.e. artificial) as bad. the lesser the processing, the better.
Hope you don't eat soy with that philosophy.0 -
alstin2015 wrote: »the lesser the processing, the better.
I've always found cooking meat to be an improvement over gnawing it right off the bone in the middle of the forest.0 -
I agree, and I've been working on that (especially since I need to watch my consumption of starches for medical reasons).lemurcat12 wrote:ForecasterJason wrote: »
This conversation does seem like a repeat to me as well.stevencloser wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
Guys, I'm fairly certain I read this same conversation like a year ago.
Right down to the talk about micronutrients in the homemade pizza and the preservatives and white flour in the pizza from the pizza joint.
Same. Possibly even the same person.
And forecaster, how are you so sure the dominoes (or any other pizza joint for that matter) pizza is devoid of micronutrients? Especially when directly comparing the cheeses and pepperoni etc. with each other.
In answer to the question, because of the differences in the flour used. I can't guarantee this for every pizza place, but I know it's true for the bigger chains like dominoes, pizza hut, papa johns. For some micros like magnesium, mine has significantly more because of the flour.
Obviously, it wouldn't be a fair comparison if you get their spinach pizza and ask for extra spinach, and then compare that to my cheese or cheese/pepperoni pizza. But when it comes to comparing the two based on the same toppings, mine will always come out well ahead due to the crust differences.
If someone relies on flour for a significant source of their micros, they probably should be eating more vegetables.0 -
juggernaut1974 wrote: »alstin2015 wrote: »the lesser the processing, the better.
I've always found cooking meat to be an improvement over gnawing it right off the bone in the middle of the forest.
Sissy.0 -
juggernaut1974 wrote: »alstin2015 wrote: »the lesser the processing, the better.
I've always found cooking meat to be an improvement over gnawing it right off the bone in the middle of the forest.
I also enjoy butter more than sucking milk straight from a cow's teat and swishing it around in my mouth until it's churned into a consistency that I can then spit onto my food.
...but then again, butter's probably one o' them there "Bad Foods".0 -
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