still hungry after 1500 calorie breakfast, what am i doing wrong?
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What synacious said is right on.
When you're eating at those very low levels- and 1200 calories is VERY low, 800 calories is starvation level- your body turns to itself for fuel, breaking down not just fat but muscle, too. When you lose muscle, your body becomes softer and larger (muscle is denser and firmer than fat, so when you lose muscle mass, it contributes to the rounder shape you don't like even at perfectly normal weights), weaker (making you less effective at physical activity- it's little wonder on so little fuel that you struggle to run the distances you used to), and also, paradoxically, uses fewer calories (muscle burns more calories than other tissues). Your body also shifts in to starvation mode- when you chronically under eat, your metabolism slows to make the most of what little you're giving it. Then when you binge, it's more likely to store those calories as fat than it would if you ate in a more balanced way that met your nutritional needs on a regular basis.
It's also tough at those low levels to hit appropriate macro and micro intake, and easy to become deficient in essential nutrients. You need protein to build muscle, and carbs and fat and micronutrients like vitamins and minerals for fuel, brain function, and essential functions like hormone production. Packaged shakes should not be substituting for whole foods in the majority of your diet- you're setting yourself up for all kinds of deficiencies that way, even when those products claim to be nutritionally complete. You need to be eating real food at an appropriate volume regularly to fuel your body- the physical changes you're looking for are to be found in strength training, not dieting, but I'm hesitant to suggest that you start that until you've got your eating sorted, because eating on this kind of starvation diet while strength training is even more disastrous for your health than your current tons-of-cardio plan.
It's great that you've identified that the core problem here is in how you're thinking about food. Restriction and treating eating at healthy volumes as a lack of self-control is setting you up for further weight gain and unhappiness in the future, and in the long term, this starvation diet can have serious health consequences and above all, just to reiterate, it will not get you the body changes you seek.
I really, strongly second shell1005's suggestion to talk to a therapist specializing in eating disorders. A good therapist, a trainer, and a nutritionist will be the keys to getting on a path towards health and happiness, but the therapist should come first.
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And by the way I am not ignoring the good advice, it's just that part of this is a mental internal struggle for me and I can't help but think a certain way. Or sometimes I just wonder about something and can't stop thinking it until it gets out of my mind for good. I think it's just something I need to work on myself.
This is how my day looks so far but I need more calories to get it above 1500 because right now it's too low only at 1000, is there anything I am missing nutritionally?
The H: are hunger levels before and after eating
One idea I have some trouble getting outof my mind even though I realize the calories is low is that nutritionally is it that bad? Since I have almost 50 g of protein, 150 g of carbs, and over 80% of fiber (and that's based on 2000 calories, for a lower calorie diet it may be enough fiber?). But it's only 1000 calories. Is it better that I eat 200 of a nutritionally empty snack (like cookies) to get it up to over 1500 or so or not eat any more and leave it at 1000?
Item Cals Protein Carbs Fiber Time
Breakfast (H: 5-6.7)
slimfast (took 15 mins to feel full) 190 10 24 20.00% 09:00:00 AM
coffee (frvanilla, medium blend) 0 0 0
Lunch: (hungry at 11:30, H: 3.5 – 7)
Fit Kitchen meal: steak fajita 370 26 48 20.00% 12:00:00 PM
pear 100 0 27 24.00%
slimfast 190 10 24 20.00%
snack (maybe banana) 100 0 27 12.00%
Vitamins 2 15
calcium chew 15
TOTAL: 980 46 150 96.00%
Your body needs more than 1000 calories a day just to function. It's great to meet your macros, but your body also just needs fuel, period. It looks like you're intentionally avoiding fat- fat is a necessary part of your diet, and there is no good evidence for the no/low-fat craze of the 80s and early 90s being beneficial for weight loss.
Obviously given the choice between a more nutritionally-dense food and something with little nutritional value like cookies, the nutritionally-dense option is better- an apple with peanut butter? An avocado smoothie? But if there's nothing else in the kitchen and your choice is between cookies and not enough calories to fuel your body, eat the cookies.
Say it again with me: starvation is not an effective path to weight loss. Bodies need food to live. Bodies deprived of food break down over time- broken-down bodies do not look or feel the way you're hoping to look or feel.
Your body is like a building- right now you think it doesn't look its best, and your plan to fix that is to stop repairing anything and hope that the parts you don't like will just fall off.
A much better plan is to send in some building materials and renovate. That's what food is. Not a punishment, not an indulgence, a building material.0 -
Drop the slim fast and increase or add the following; greek yogurt and cheese, nuts, fish, lean meat, and veggies (cucumber, broccoli, carrots, squash, etc....) to include starches.0
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emmycantbemeeko wrote: »What synacious said is right on.
When you're eating at those very low levels- and 1200 calories is VERY low, 800 calories is starvation level- your body turns to itself for fuel, breaking down not just fat but muscle, too. When you lose muscle, your body becomes softer and larger (muscle is denser and firmer than fat, so when you lose muscle mass, it contributes to the rounder shape you don't like even at perfectly normal weights), weaker (making you less effective at physical activity- it's little wonder on so little fuel that you struggle to run the distances you used to), and also, paradoxically, uses fewer calories (muscle burns more calories than other tissues). Your body also shifts in to starvation mode- when you chronically under eat, your metabolism slows to make the most of what little you're giving it. Then when you binge, it's more likely to store those calories as fat than it would if you ate in a more balanced way that met your nutritional needs on a regular basis.
It's also tough at those low levels to hit appropriate macro and micro intake, and easy to become deficient in essential nutrients. You need protein to build muscle, and carbs and fat and micronutrients like vitamins and minerals for fuel, brain function, and essential functions like hormone production. Packaged shakes should not be substituting for whole foods in the majority of your diet- you're setting yourself up for all kinds of deficiencies that way, even when those products claim to be nutritionally complete. You need to be eating real food at an appropriate volume regularly to fuel your body- the physical changes you're looking for are to be found in strength training, not dieting, but I'm hesitant to suggest that you start that until you've got your eating sorted, because eating on this kind of starvation diet while strength training is even more disastrous for your health than your current tons-of-cardio plan.
It's great that you've identified that the core problem here is in how you're thinking about food. Restriction and treating eating at healthy volumes as a lack of self-control is setting you up for further weight gain and unhappiness in the future, and in the long term, this starvation diet can have serious health consequences and above all, just to reiterate, it will not get you the body changes you seek.
I really, strongly second shell1005's suggestion to talk to a therapist specializing in eating disorders. A good therapist, a trainer, and a nutritionist will be the keys to getting on a path towards health and happiness, but the therapist should come first.
Agreed with the bolded. Although I'd like to say I'd rather recommend a registered dietitian just for the fact that some nutritionists follow fads and may actually end up exacerbating the issues she has.0 -
One thing is I don't have a lot of time to prepare food, and I don't cook. I have a free dining hall at work but I've done most of my binges there and I tend to overeat there. I noticed that when I eat there I eat until I feel full, but when I am not there I eat until I am not hungry anymore.Drop the slim fast and increase or add the following; greek yogurt and cheese, nuts, fish, lean meat, and veggies (cucumber, broccoli, carrots, squash, etc....) to include starches.
I bought a pack of 8 slimfast and a pack of 12 equate. I might try slimfast for a few weeks (maybe 2 months) and then replace it gradually with other things.
For breakfast it'd be easy for me to do something to replace the slim fast 190 calories (cookies/cake/banana/oatmeal/fruit and a third cup of coke works perfectly for me before my morning run). Actually after I drank the slimfast this morning I had a lot of energy and I feel like that would be good for my morning run too.
I wondered if chocolate milk would be as good as slimfast, but I'm not sure that it has the fiber in it. The chocolate milk that I like is the one at trader joe's, a pint bottle for $1, 160 calories per serving or 320 calories for the whole bottle. But it's hard for me to portion it out exactly in half for 1 serving since there's 2 servings per bottle, then since it's not exactly 200 I feel like I need to add in the missing 40 calories throughs something like a third of a banana or something, but in general I am not good at portioning out stuff myself and I end up eating the whole banana. So in a way the slim fast works very good for me because the portion is already set, and it's convenient.
I also like trader joe's greek yogurt (the full fat version).
I am not avoiding fats I just don't keep track of them because I usually don't pick fat-free items so I tend to get enough of it. I probably can also overeat carbs too and may not need to track it but sometimes when I choose high protein stuff, they don't come with enough carbs so that's why I track it to make sure I am not eating something that's too high in protein but not enough carbs.
I did buy some cucumber and carrots last night though, which I will probably munch on if I am feeling hungry, I use them as a hunger stopper.
I bought some almonds and may use them for a snack during the day.
One 500 calorie lunch I could do is a trader joe's yogurt (320 calories) + almonds (180 calories) or teddy grahams.
I bought like 14 frozen meals yesterday (chili's, fit kitchen, hungry man) but they are more expensive ($2.5-$4) than the trader joe's burritos I was used to having for lunch. After I run out of the frozen meals I'd probably just go back to trader joe's burritos (20 g protein, 50g+ carbs, etc.) and I noticed today that it has 20% of fiber too (which I didn't really know before) but I've always noticed that these burritos were very filling for me so I could just have one with ketchup for lunch and feel satisfied. I like foods that have a lot of protein, carbs, and saturated fat.0 -
Okay, first of all thank you to everyone that supported my previous post to the OP. I appreciate that.
OP, I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not trying to offend you or hurt you in any way, I'm just trying to be straight with you so that you understand. You're not going to get the body you want with your current plan. I see your photos and the reason why you look that way is because you've spent so many years running and restricting that you have very little muscle tone. You look heavier than 108 pounds because of your lack of muscle tone. No amount of calorie restriction is going to help your body composition. You need to eat more and start resistance training to get the look that you want. Running will not define you and you will not build muscles by eating 800 to 1000 calories per day. Sorry, but you wont. Several people, including myself, have told you how bad that is for you and you still refuse to understand. I think you're at the point where you need professional help because you can't refocus your mind away from 800 calories and Slimfast. In trying to "fix" your body, you've actually done a lot of damage mentally, internally, and aesthetically. I'm not even close to perfect, but the reason I have any sort of muscle tone whatsoever is because I lift weights and I EAT. I'm not special, my genetics aren't some God-tier outlier; I just get the results I want because I'm doing this the smart way. Eating 800 to 1000 calories and running so that you only net around 500 for the day is the polar opposite of the "smart" way. I'm sorry if any of this makes you feel bad because, again, that is not my intention. I just need you to understand just how much harm you are doing to yourself.
Everyone else has said what I would, but @synacious is absolutely spot on.
I'm 5' tall and ~113 pounds right now. I've been lifting casually over the course of the last year and really focusing on it now and I'm already seeing a difference in my body composition.
OP -
I've been where you are, thinking that just eating a little because I'm small was the right thing to do.
It isn't.
Just because we're small doesn't mean we can/should eat so little. And, if you're running, you need to fuel your workouts. If you don't, your body will look elsewhere for fuel. The body can only pull a certain amount of energy from fat each day, and then it'll start going after muscle for energy instead. Creating a big deficit means more muscle loss, and, in turn, results in a less than ideal body composition.
My recommendation? Run if you want. But if you don't find it fun, then find something else you enjoy. Talk with a trainer and see about starting a heavy lifting program. Fuel your workouts so you can keep doing them.
Consider seeing a therapist to help you deal with your issues so you can get a better handle on how to treat your body.
I wish you all the best.
~Lyssa0 -
Look up low glycemic foods, they release energy slower and should help keep you feeling fuller for longer0
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PikaKnight wrote: »emmycantbemeeko wrote: »What synacious said is right on.
When you're eating at those very low levels- and 1200 calories is VERY low, 800 calories is starvation level- your body turns to itself for fuel, breaking down not just fat but muscle, too. When you lose muscle, your body becomes softer and larger (muscle is denser and firmer than fat, so when you lose muscle mass, it contributes to the rounder shape you don't like even at perfectly normal weights), weaker (making you less effective at physical activity- it's little wonder on so little fuel that you struggle to run the distances you used to), and also, paradoxically, uses fewer calories (muscle burns more calories than other tissues). Your body also shifts in to starvation mode- when you chronically under eat, your metabolism slows to make the most of what little you're giving it. Then when you binge, it's more likely to store those calories as fat than it would if you ate in a more balanced way that met your nutritional needs on a regular basis.
It's also tough at those low levels to hit appropriate macro and micro intake, and easy to become deficient in essential nutrients. You need protein to build muscle, and carbs and fat and micronutrients like vitamins and minerals for fuel, brain function, and essential functions like hormone production. Packaged shakes should not be substituting for whole foods in the majority of your diet- you're setting yourself up for all kinds of deficiencies that way, even when those products claim to be nutritionally complete. You need to be eating real food at an appropriate volume regularly to fuel your body- the physical changes you're looking for are to be found in strength training, not dieting, but I'm hesitant to suggest that you start that until you've got your eating sorted, because eating on this kind of starvation diet while strength training is even more disastrous for your health than your current tons-of-cardio plan.
It's great that you've identified that the core problem here is in how you're thinking about food. Restriction and treating eating at healthy volumes as a lack of self-control is setting you up for further weight gain and unhappiness in the future, and in the long term, this starvation diet can have serious health consequences and above all, just to reiterate, it will not get you the body changes you seek.
I really, strongly second shell1005's suggestion to talk to a therapist specializing in eating disorders. A good therapist, a trainer, and a nutritionist will be the keys to getting on a path towards health and happiness, but the therapist should come first.
Agreed with the bolded. Although I'd like to say I'd rather recommend a registered dietitian just for the fact that some nutritionists follow fads and may actually end up exacerbating the issues she has.
A nutritionist, dietician, trainer, are expensive
Since I have a free work dining hall, I have been spending less than $50/month on food (I would mostly just a large lunch there, then something small for breakfast and dinner, and the only thing I really paid for was blueberries, and the gas to get there as it's a 20 minutes drive from where I work so I don't have much time to eat if I go for lunch). This month I just bought a bunch of frozen dinners, slimfast, etc. so I'm probably spending like $150 or so on food, but I think it may be less than what others spend. But I don't usually spend a lot of food anyways because I don't eat that much and I can live off of certain things at trader joe's that are relatively cheap (chicken burritos, chocolate milk, yogurt, bananas, clementines, etc.). Also sometimes at work there's "free food" like people bring in bagels, or leave leftovers and extras at lunch sometimes from a deli place, etc. and I save some for the next day so I don't have to pay for lunch.
I am not sure what it will cost for a therapist, nutritionist, dietician, trainer, etc. but they aren't really within my budget now. I tried to do some research online about these things though, but I may have to live with whatever I can get with free information.
On frozen meals and slimfast, the cost of lunch + the 2 slimfast:
Each day:
0.83 Slimfast 1
2.5 frozen meal
0.83 Slimfast 2
3.535
$125/month
Snacks: ($4 pears, $6 almonds, $2 bananas, $8 strawberries, $4 blueberries, $3 water etc.)
Total maybe $150/month
If I just do burritos for the meals instead of the snacks and 2 slim fast a day, or a mix of frozen foods and burritos:
it's about $125/month total for the foods.
If I go down to 1 slimfast a day and just do my own breakfast (which is cheap, like a banana + something else)
then it might just be like $2-$2.5 for the food a day ($60/month).
For snacks I can usually find something so I don't really need to pay much for that, if it's just something like a banana which are practically free.
If I use frozen meals, that is the main cost.
If I just eat trader joe's burritos, then main cost is slimfast though since it averages like $1/day or $30/month.
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Drink lots of water and my favorite food that over fills u with little calories is a baked sweet potato I eat one almost every day, and I only have 1200 calories daily don't eat past 6pm and I've lost almost 25 pounds now, only 14 left until I reach my goal! Hydration is key and water makes u feel full good luck!0
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macgurlnet wrote: »Okay, first of all thank you to everyone that supported my previous post to the OP. I appreciate that.
OP, I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not trying to offend you or hurt you in any way, I'm just trying to be straight with you so that you understand. You're not going to get the body you want with your current plan. I see your photos and the reason why you look that way is because you've spent so many years running and restricting that you have very little muscle tone. You look heavier than 108 pounds because of your lack of muscle tone. No amount of calorie restriction is going to help your body composition. You need to eat more and start resistance training to get the look that you want. Running will not define you and you will not build muscles by eating 800 to 1000 calories per day. Sorry, but you wont. Several people, including myself, have told you how bad that is for you and you still refuse to understand. I think you're at the point where you need professional help because you can't refocus your mind away from 800 calories and Slimfast. In trying to "fix" your body, you've actually done a lot of damage mentally, internally, and aesthetically. I'm not even close to perfect, but the reason I have any sort of muscle tone whatsoever is because I lift weights and I EAT. I'm not special, my genetics aren't some God-tier outlier; I just get the results I want because I'm doing this the smart way. Eating 800 to 1000 calories and running so that you only net around 500 for the day is the polar opposite of the "smart" way. I'm sorry if any of this makes you feel bad because, again, that is not my intention. I just need you to understand just how much harm you are doing to yourself.
Everyone else has said what I would, but @synacious is absolutely spot on.
I'm 5' tall and ~113 pounds right now. I've been lifting casually over the course of the last year and really focusing on it now and I'm already seeing a difference in my body composition.
OP -
I've been where you are, thinking that just eating a little because I'm small was the right thing to do.
It isn't.
Just because we're small doesn't mean we can/should eat so little. And, if you're running, you need to fuel your workouts. If you don't, your body will look elsewhere for fuel. The body can only pull a certain amount of energy from fat each day, and then it'll start going after muscle for energy instead. Creating a big deficit means more muscle loss, and, in turn, results in a less than ideal body composition.
My recommendation? Run if you want. But if you don't find it fun, then find something else you enjoy. Talk with a trainer and see about starting a heavy lifting program. Fuel your workouts so you can keep doing them.
Consider seeing a therapist to help you deal with your issues so you can get a better handle on how to treat your body.
I wish you all the best.
~Lyssa
Thanks for your response. I could probably increase my muscle mass.
I've never had any muscle mass in the past, even at the lower weight, maybe I lost a little bit but I never had that much before to lose anyways I've never been muscular before so I don't know how I would even look if I were more muscularly toned.
I don't really find running fun in itself and if it weren't about the weight I wouldn't run, I mean, sometimes I get used to it and I feel relaxed afterwards, so I guess if the running is just offsetting the calories then maybe I could save time by not running.
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Thanks for everyone's responses, I've read through them, if I didn't respond to something specific I probably still read it and am keeping it mind and I appreciate everyone's thoughts!0
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on weekends it's harder to stay motivated because I don't have to go to work and so I feel a bit sluggish for exercise. So I counted today as my free day for a workout.
I would suggest that if you are noticing that you struggle more on the weekends, which is typical, then you don't allow that to be your free day. It sounds to me like you need to find something you really enjoy if you are struggling that much with the exercise on the weekend. I personally like to get up on the weekends and get my workout in, because I know that if I wait until later in the day, I may not want to do it anymore because by later in the day, I'm just ready to relax... I mean it is my weekend right?
Another transition you may want to make is to stop thinking of Saturday and Sunday as the weekend. I think of these days like any other days, I'm just lucky I don't have to go to work, which isn't even the case anymore. I actually work everyday right now. But if you think "oh it's the weekend, I can give myself a break" you will more than likely fall back into bad habits and gain any weight you lost the week prior, back. Meaning you won't be making any progress.
Just some food for thought. Good luck on your journey.
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littlelegsfurniture wrote: »I am in my first week of a ketogenic diet - 3 key concepts that have stopped me feeling any hunger at all:
1. There are foods that make you gain
2. There are foods that make you lose
3. There are foods that PREVENT you from losing
Most women who are not naturally thin seem to have insulin resistance. To force your body to relearn how to burn fat (and release ketones that suppress hunger) it takes about 2-3 days of no sugar and very low carbs while eating lean proteins and UNLIMITED vegetables.
Yesterday I had an omelet with 2 cups of raw spinach, mushrooms and green onion, cucumber/fennel/celery snack, huge salad with bbq soy nuts and hard-boiled egg whites with olive oil and apple cider vinegar dressing for lunch, a gluten free protein lemon bar and cup of coffee with 1 oz cream and Splenda for another snack, grilled chicken breast with huge bunch of asparagus for dinner and for the first time I can remember could not imagine eating anything else before bed.
Research:
Ideal Protein
Ketogenic Diet
Ketone strips (to know you are still fat-burning anytime)
It is only for weight LOSS, and after you are at goal weight the new habits make maintaining it pretty doable if the women who are helping me with this program are evidence.
Good luck!
All of this is unnecessary, just in case OP sees this.0 -
Are you eating every two hours? That really helps me0
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Go out for a walk ..or a workout...get your mind off your mindless need to eat because you're not physically hungry
Exactly. You're NOT hungry.
If it's your period, then figure out a strategy. I never worried about the munchies before, because I knew I would have ZERO appetite once it began, and I never made myself eat then. It all averaged out.
If you're using a MFP type approach where you aim for a certain amount of calories, consider tweaking it to allow for the hormone munchies.
Otherwise:
Drink more water.
Eat more high volume vegetables.
eat protein/fat for breakfast.0 -
The actual seed?? Where do you get them and what does it do? Do you put them in the water? I don't drink coffee, I drink 24 oz of water when I get up.Spook_Nuke_Em wrote: »What is your water intake like? Within 15 minutes of waking up I generally drink 16 ounces of water with chia seeds, then have my breakfast within the hour.0 -
Try putting the food you want in a to go box and taking it to eat somewhere else. That way you can make good first choices, not have to cook, then get out of there before you start going back for seconds.One thing is I don't have a lot of time to prepare food, and I don't cook. I have a free dining hall at work but I've done most of my binges there and I tend to overeat there. I noticed that when I eat there I eat until I feel full, but when I am not there I eat until I am not hungry anymore.0 -
sunfastrose wrote: »littlelegsfurniture wrote: »I am in my first week of a ketogenic diet - 3 key concepts that have stopped me feeling any hunger at all:
1. There are foods that make you gain
2. There are foods that make you lose
3. There are foods that PREVENT you from losing
Most women who are not naturally thin seem to have insulin resistance. To force your body to relearn how to burn fat (and release ketones that suppress hunger) it takes about 2-3 days of no sugar and very low carbs while eating lean proteins and UNLIMITED vegetables.
Yesterday I had an omelet with 2 cups of raw spinach, mushrooms and green onion, cucumber/fennel/celery snack, huge salad with bbq soy nuts and hard-boiled egg whites with olive oil and apple cider vinegar dressing for lunch, a gluten free protein lemon bar and cup of coffee with 1 oz cream and Splenda for another snack, grilled chicken breast with huge bunch of asparagus for dinner and for the first time I can remember could not imagine eating anything else before bed.
Research:
Ideal Protein
Ketogenic Diet
Ketone strips (to know you are still fat-burning anytime)
It is only for weight LOSS, and after you are at goal weight the new habits make maintaining it pretty doable if the women who are helping me with this program are evidence.
Good luck!
All of this is unnecessary, just in case OP sees this.
And a lot of it is untrue as well.
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OP you've gotten really great advice in this thread about eating more, focusing on strength training to build muscle in order to achieve the body composition you desire and talking to a therapist about your issues with body image, disordered eating, etc.
The only thing I wanted to add was that upthread you made a comment about wanting to be 80 or 90 lbs because that's what you weighed in middle school/high school and you are 30 now. You aren't supposed to weigh the same thing as a grown adult as you did when you were a young teenager and your body will change too. I think if you focus on the advice in this thread and recomp your body, you may find that you look better at the higher weight than you did when younger....0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »OP you've gotten really great advice in this thread about eating more, focusing on strength training to build muscle in order to achieve the body composition you desire and talking to a therapist about your issues with body image, disordered eating, etc.
The only thing I wanted to add was that upthread you made a comment about wanting to be 80 or 90 lbs because that's what you weighed in middle school/high school and you are 30 now. You aren't supposed to weigh the same thing as a grown adult as you did when you were a young teenager and your body will change too. I think if you focus on the advice in this thread and recomp your body, you may find that you look better at the higher weight than you did when younger....
Totally agree. There's some really excellent advice up thread about changing body composition and focusing less on the scale. Trying to weigh the same that we did as children and before completing puberty is just ridiculous.0
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