Good calories vs bad calories
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Tomk652015 wrote: »Wow. amazing. simply amazing. assumptions and perceptions by you. alrighty then. Clearly you win! Congratulations. case closed. I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
I'm not trying to win. I'm trying to discuss why these threads tend to end up with silly argument.
I think assumptions and perceptions answers this question perfectly.
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muscleandbeard wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »muscleandbeard wrote: »Omg I officially dislike this app and the poor advice that people on here give. There is more to weight loss than just the number on the scale. Body composition is only determined by the foods you eat. You can lose weight by a calorie deficit but you will not be toned, shredded etc. You will be skinny fat if you eat crap food. Please refer to this link to better understand why what you eat is just as important as how much you eat. You have to be in deficit to lose weight, but you have to have a well balanced diet to lose fat instead of muscle.
http://comfortpit.com/the-truth-about-calories/
Body composition is not only determined by the foods you eat. Have you seen a 5% bf bodybuilder who never did any training?
You obviously have to work out. This is under the presumption that the person already does.
You're presuming that everyone who wants to lose weight is already working out? That's a pretty big presumption.0 -
muscleandbeard wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »muscleandbeard wrote: »Omg I officially dislike this app and the poor advice that people on here give. There is more to weight loss than just the number on the scale. Body composition is only determined by the foods you eat. You can lose weight by a calorie deficit but you will not be toned, shredded etc. You will be skinny fat if you eat crap food. Please refer to this link to better understand why what you eat is just as important as how much you eat. You have to be in deficit to lose weight, but you have to have a well balanced diet to lose fat instead of muscle.
http://comfortpit.com/the-truth-about-calories/
Body composition is not only determined by the foods you eat. Have you seen a 5% bf bodybuilder who never did any training?
You obviously have to work out. This is under the presumption that the person already does.
MFP is designed to set a calorie goal for users without exercise, such that even if a person does no exercise, they can lose weight. Now for improving overall health, fitness, etc - it is optimal if a person does incorporate some level of exercise into their goals, but to presume that every person on here is exercising, especially progressive lifting, is just not accurate for the demographic of this site.0 -
muscleandbeard wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »muscleandbeard wrote: »Omg I officially dislike this app and the poor advice that people on here give. There is more to weight loss than just the number on the scale. Body composition is only determined by the foods you eat. You can lose weight by a calorie deficit but you will not be toned, shredded etc. You will be skinny fat if you eat crap food. Please refer to this link to better understand why what you eat is just as important as how much you eat. You have to be in deficit to lose weight, but you have to have a well balanced diet to lose fat instead of muscle.
http://comfortpit.com/the-truth-about-calories/
Body composition is not only determined by the foods you eat. Have you seen a 5% bf bodybuilder who never did any training?
You obviously have to work out. This is under the presumption that the person already does.
The point stands that you are making a moral judgement that isn't supported by facts. You can have a "crap" diet and that won't affect your body composition unless you are missing key macros/micros at the proper level. Just look at all the classic bodybuilders and strength altheletes that used to have diets of pizza and beer during their bulks. There is no evidence to show that, as long as you meet your macro/micro targets that it has to be done in some particular fashion, our bodies are pretty damn good at extracting what we need reguardless of the form it comes in. We wouldn't have survived in such vastly different food environments for thousands of years if that wasn't the case.
ETA, working out is the key to preserving and building muscle, but that's pretty much a given.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »On the other hand, just fruit and veg isn't healthy either.
Hmm. Not sure this statement would always be true.
We've discussed this before. My belief is that normally when people say "just fruit and veg" they don't mean "eating a balanced vegan diet that includes legumes and other sources of protein and are careful to get good sources of fat like avocado and nuts and seeds." They mean "I will eat only fruit and non-starchy vegetables." They have a mistaken belief that those are the healthiest foods and that just eating them is therefore the healthiest thing to do. I've seen it over and over again on MFP. When people mean vegan or plant-based, they say vegan or plant-based.
That's quite a generalization. I'm not sure most people would get all that from simply saying eating only fruit and veg isn't healthy.
I don't know what "most people" would get, but I'll say that even in the vegan community "fruits and vegetables" is often interpreted as "fruit and non-starchy vegetables." If someone is eating legumes and grains and nuts and seeds, this will usually be specified, as people often don't include these under the umbrella of "vegetables."
I guess we can discuss whether this is technically correct or not, but I think what most people -- including those on plant-based diets -- mean by "fruits and vegetables" is fairly limited. I know that legumes and grains are vegetables, but if someone told me that they only ate fruits and vegetables, my first assumption would be that they were on a very limited and strict diet that didn't include legumes and grains. And I probably would caution them that this isn't going to be great for their health, that they need more protein and fat.
exactly...
also, i find the "all this or all that" arguments to pretty much kill any kind of legitimate discussion right from go because it's so ludicrous.
But the binary, black-and-white approach builds the strongest support framework for the strawman. It's much harder for them to argue that a moderate, balanced diet with occasional treats thrown in is a "bad" way to eat - instead, frame those people as eating doughnuts for breakfast, Snickers bars for lunch and McDonald's for dinner every day. Because there can't possibly be a sensible, moderate approach to eating.0 -
A calorie is measured by burning the food to determine the amount of energy in the food. There are some foods that they body is better able to digest and therefore make use of all of the energy in the food. For example corn comes out looking very similar to the way that it went in and thus your body did not make use of all of the energy in that food. So a diet high in fiber (which is harder for your body to digest) will not be absorbed as well as a junk food diet which is more easily absorbed by your body.
Also with a healthy diet you can be completely and utterly full with only 447 calories (my lunch today) as opposed to a 500 calorie muffin which leaves me hungry an hour later (that is the fruit and bran muffin at my local coffee shop).
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cwolfman13 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »On the other hand, just fruit and veg isn't healthy either.
Hmm. Not sure this statement would always be true.
We've discussed this before. My belief is that normally when people say "just fruit and veg" they don't mean "eating a balanced vegan diet that includes legumes and other sources of protein and are careful to get good sources of fat like avocado and nuts and seeds." They mean "I will eat only fruit and non-starchy vegetables." They have a mistaken belief that those are the healthiest foods and that just eating them is therefore the healthiest thing to do. I've seen it over and over again on MFP. When people mean vegan or plant-based, they say vegan or plant-based.
That's quite a generalization. I'm not sure most people would get all that from simply saying eating only fruit and veg isn't healthy.
I don't know what "most people" would get, but I'll say that even in the vegan community "fruits and vegetables" is often interpreted as "fruit and non-starchy vegetables." If someone is eating legumes and grains and nuts and seeds, this will usually be specified, as people often don't include these under the umbrella of "vegetables."
I guess we can discuss whether this is technically correct or not, but I think what most people -- including those on plant-based diets -- mean by "fruits and vegetables" is fairly limited. I know that legumes and grains are vegetables, but if someone told me that they only ate fruits and vegetables, my first assumption would be that they were on a very limited and strict diet that didn't include legumes and grains. And I probably would caution them that this isn't going to be great for their health, that they need more protein and fat.
exactly...
also, i find the "all this or all that" arguments to pretty much kill any kind of legitimate discussion right from go because it's so ludicrous.
But the binary, black-and-white approach builds the strongest support framework for the strawman. It's much harder for them to argue that a moderate, balanced diet with occasional treats thrown in is a "bad" way to eat - instead, frame those people as eating doughnuts for breakfast, Snickers bars for lunch and McDonald's for dinner every day. Because there can't possibly be a sensible, moderate approach to eating.
We don't build strawmen at MFP we build straw armies! 0 -
muscleandbeard wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »muscleandbeard wrote: »Omg I officially dislike this app and the poor advice that people on here give. There is more to weight loss than just the number on the scale. Body composition is only determined by the foods you eat. You can lose weight by a calorie deficit but you will not be toned, shredded etc. You will be skinny fat if you eat crap food. Please refer to this link to better understand why what you eat is just as important as how much you eat. You have to be in deficit to lose weight, but you have to have a well balanced diet to lose fat instead of muscle.
http://comfortpit.com/the-truth-about-calories/
Body composition is not only determined by the foods you eat. Have you seen a 5% bf bodybuilder who never did any training?
You obviously have to work out. This is under the presumption that the person already does.
"Body composition is only determined by the foods you eat" ... your words that you now have added a presumption to after it was not part of your initial diatribe. What else did you realize you left out of your broscience, slanted perception based earlier post?0 -
And of course people are definitely eating nothing but Snickers bars for their diet.Here is how I think about this scenario.
Lets say on a 1200 calorie diet you eat nothing but snickers bars. Yes you would most likely weigh less, but you would feel like crap. And eating nothing but 4.8 candy bars a day would most likely leave you still hungry, and make you more likely to binge on even more crap, which makes you feel bad about yourself, so you eat even more crap food to cheer yourself up. A vicious cycle.
Now on that same 1200 calories, you eat nothing but boiled chicken breast and steamed broccoli. That's close to a pound of lean protein, and around 4 pounds of plant based nutrients. You will be much more satisfied and energized. Bored to tears, but not hungry.
So yes, a calorie is a calorie. But don't be an idiot. Your diet is your diet for life. Choose to fuel your body in a sustainable and responsible manner and it will treat you well.
The point being that "a" Snickers bar can be PART of a diet plan and weight loss can still occur.
1 snickers bar = 266 calories
I could eat 6 snickers bars a day...
I could probably get on board with this diet, at least for one day a week. If I wasn't allergic to peanuts
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OP: if you are still around think of it like this
which weighs more:
a pound of feather or a pound of rocks?0 -
muscleandbeard wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »muscleandbeard wrote: »Omg I officially dislike this app and the poor advice that people on here give. There is more to weight loss than just the number on the scale. Body composition is only determined by the foods you eat. You can lose weight by a calorie deficit but you will not be toned, shredded etc. You will be skinny fat if you eat crap food. Please refer to this link to better understand why what you eat is just as important as how much you eat. You have to be in deficit to lose weight, but you have to have a well balanced diet to lose fat instead of muscle.
http://comfortpit.com/the-truth-about-calories/
Body composition is not only determined by the foods you eat. Have you seen a 5% bf bodybuilder who never did any training?
You obviously have to work out. This is under the presumption that the person already does.
I don't work out. I never have and I've lost 50lbs. Granted, I started walking to try and get my asthma under control, but I don't use it for weight loss as I eat those calories back. Exercise IS NOT necessary for weight loss. Weight loss happens when you burn more calories than you consume. Period. HOW you do it is up to you. There's many different ways. Yes, working out and exercise are important for many reasons, such as getting your heart into better shape so it handles stress better. And lifting is a good idea when losing weight because muscle tone plays a big role in how you actually look when you've lost the weight. But assuming everyone here obviously has to work out isn't an accurate statement.0 -
And of course people are definitely eating nothing but Snickers bars for their diet.Here is how I think about this scenario.
Lets say on a 1200 calorie diet you eat nothing but snickers bars. Yes you would most likely weigh less, but you would feel like crap. And eating nothing but 4.8 candy bars a day would most likely leave you still hungry, and make you more likely to binge on even more crap, which makes you feel bad about yourself, so you eat even more crap food to cheer yourself up. A vicious cycle.
Now on that same 1200 calories, you eat nothing but boiled chicken breast and steamed broccoli. That's close to a pound of lean protein, and around 4 pounds of plant based nutrients. You will be much more satisfied and energized. Bored to tears, but not hungry.
So yes, a calorie is a calorie. But don't be an idiot. Your diet is your diet for life. Choose to fuel your body in a sustainable and responsible manner and it will treat you well.
The point being that "a" Snickers bar can be PART of a diet plan and weight loss can still occur.
1 snickers bar = 266 calories
I could eat 6 snickers bars a day...
I could probably get on board with this diet, at least for one day a week. If I wasn't allergic to peanuts
Have you heard of Twix?!? Our Lord of the Heavenly candy bar may approve.
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And of course people are definitely eating nothing but Snickers bars for their diet.Here is how I think about this scenario.
Lets say on a 1200 calorie diet you eat nothing but snickers bars. Yes you would most likely weigh less, but you would feel like crap. And eating nothing but 4.8 candy bars a day would most likely leave you still hungry, and make you more likely to binge on even more crap, which makes you feel bad about yourself, so you eat even more crap food to cheer yourself up. A vicious cycle.
Now on that same 1200 calories, you eat nothing but boiled chicken breast and steamed broccoli. That's close to a pound of lean protein, and around 4 pounds of plant based nutrients. You will be much more satisfied and energized. Bored to tears, but not hungry.
So yes, a calorie is a calorie. But don't be an idiot. Your diet is your diet for life. Choose to fuel your body in a sustainable and responsible manner and it will treat you well.
The point being that "a" Snickers bar can be PART of a diet plan and weight loss can still occur.
1 snickers bar = 266 calories
I could eat 6 snickers bars a day...
I could probably get on board with this diet, at least for one day a week. If I wasn't allergic to peanuts
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10023905/my-one-day-snickers-bar-story/p10 -
diannethegeek wrote: »
And of course people are definitely eating nothing but Snickers bars for their diet.Here is how I think about this scenario.
Lets say on a 1200 calorie diet you eat nothing but snickers bars. Yes you would most likely weigh less, but you would feel like crap. And eating nothing but 4.8 candy bars a day would most likely leave you still hungry, and make you more likely to binge on even more crap, which makes you feel bad about yourself, so you eat even more crap food to cheer yourself up. A vicious cycle.
Now on that same 1200 calories, you eat nothing but boiled chicken breast and steamed broccoli. That's close to a pound of lean protein, and around 4 pounds of plant based nutrients. You will be much more satisfied and energized. Bored to tears, but not hungry.
So yes, a calorie is a calorie. But don't be an idiot. Your diet is your diet for life. Choose to fuel your body in a sustainable and responsible manner and it will treat you well.
The point being that "a" Snickers bar can be PART of a diet plan and weight loss can still occur.
1 snickers bar = 266 calories
I could eat 6 snickers bars a day...
I could probably get on board with this diet, at least for one day a week. If I wasn't allergic to peanuts
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10023905/my-one-day-snickers-bar-story/p1
The snickers thread still rocks my world. 0 -
_Terrapin_ wrote: »
And of course people are definitely eating nothing but Snickers bars for their diet.Here is how I think about this scenario.
Lets say on a 1200 calorie diet you eat nothing but snickers bars. Yes you would most likely weigh less, but you would feel like crap. And eating nothing but 4.8 candy bars a day would most likely leave you still hungry, and make you more likely to binge on even more crap, which makes you feel bad about yourself, so you eat even more crap food to cheer yourself up. A vicious cycle.
Now on that same 1200 calories, you eat nothing but boiled chicken breast and steamed broccoli. That's close to a pound of lean protein, and around 4 pounds of plant based nutrients. You will be much more satisfied and energized. Bored to tears, but not hungry.
So yes, a calorie is a calorie. But don't be an idiot. Your diet is your diet for life. Choose to fuel your body in a sustainable and responsible manner and it will treat you well.
The point being that "a" Snickers bar can be PART of a diet plan and weight loss can still occur.
1 snickers bar = 266 calories
I could eat 6 snickers bars a day...
I could probably get on board with this diet, at least for one day a week. If I wasn't allergic to peanuts
Have you heard of Twix?!? Our Lord of the Heavenly candy bar may approve.
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diannethegeek wrote: »
Pretty awesome. Yeah I can't imagine I'd really want to repeat that experience too often either
@_Terrapin_ , I believe Twix are produced on equipment shared with peanuts.
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Reading this thread has led me to one conclusion: I really wish I had a Snickers bar right now.0
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »muscleandbeard wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »muscleandbeard wrote: »Omg I officially dislike this app and the poor advice that people on here give. There is more to weight loss than just the number on the scale. Body composition is only determined by the foods you eat. You can lose weight by a calorie deficit but you will not be toned, shredded etc. You will be skinny fat if you eat crap food. Please refer to this link to better understand why what you eat is just as important as how much you eat. You have to be in deficit to lose weight, but you have to have a well balanced diet to lose fat instead of muscle.
http://comfortpit.com/the-truth-about-calories/
Body composition is not only determined by the foods you eat. Have you seen a 5% bf bodybuilder who never did any training?
You obviously have to work out. This is under the presumption that the person already does.
The point stands that you are making a moral judgement that isn't supported by facts. You can have a "crap" diet and that won't affect your body composition unless you are missing key macros/micros at the proper level. Just look at all the classic bodybuilders and strength altheletes that used to have diets of pizza and beer during their bulks. There is no evidence to show that, as long as you meet your macro/micro targets that it has to be done in some particular fashion, our bodies are pretty damn good at extracting what we need reguardless of the form it comes in. We wouldn't have survived in such vastly different food environments for thousands of years if that wasn't the case.
ETA, working out is the key to preserving and building muscle, but that's pretty much a given.
That's something I need to point out a lot on here.0 -
cherrycoke3170 wrote: »A calorie is measured by burning the food to determine the amount of energy in the food. There are some foods that they body is better able to digest and therefore make use of all of the energy in the food. For example corn comes out looking very similar to the way that it went in and thus your body did not make use of all of the energy in that food. So a diet high in fiber (which is harder for your body to digest) will not be absorbed as well as a junk food diet which is more easily absorbed by your body.
Also with a healthy diet you can be completely and utterly full with only 447 calories (my lunch today) as opposed to a 500 calorie muffin which leaves me hungry an hour later (that is the fruit and bran muffin at my local coffee shop).
The calories are mostly measured by composition analysis of the amount of fats, proteins and carbs contained in the food instead of burning them nowadays. It's more accurate than the burning for the reasons you pointed out.0
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