Vegan missionary attacking my steak dinner
Replies
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bionicrooster wrote: »I miss the old days when people would just friend request you to stalk you.
NOw THAT was funny!!!
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Unsolicited advice in general is BS. Of all sorts. Diet, parenting, religious, whatever.
If I walk up to you and say "does my tukhus look fat in these jeans?" then I'm welcoming your opinion on whether my tukhus looks fat. If you walk up to ME out of the blue and say "hey, your tukhus looks fat in those jeans" then you're a wordofyourchoicethattheforumfilterwouldcatch. Same thing.
It happens occasionally here. Not often, and usually it's a bit more subtle than outright PMing someone to tell them why they're a bad person, but it does happen. Delete, ignore, move on. If you didn't ask, you don't have to listen.
Your tuckus looks fabulous in those jeans.
So please don't smack me.
Thanks in advance.
I've been married a long time. I may be a slow learner, but I've learned a little anyway.
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VintageFeline wrote: »We're talking militant vegans and no-one has mentioned Freelee or Durian Rider? Now there's some people I could never sit in a room with for more than 10 seconds.
I think people who are very evangelical seem to think they're the only ones who understand the meat industry. Well I have news, a lot of us know an awful lot and do think about the food with a face a lot. Eating meat doesn't make me devoid of ethics or brain cells and coming at me like it does only serves to hinder the cause really.
My sister in law is OBSESSED with Freelee, and if Durian Rider is that guy who recently got banned from returning to Israel, then him too. She's a hardcore militant vegan who I'm pretty sure has orthorexia nervosa. I've never had to say no to so many brown bananas and avocados in my dam life til this most recent thing with freelee she's on.0 -
BecomingBane wrote: »Some vegans are like that. Speaking as a vegan, they should all go live on an island where they can be condescending to each other and argue over whose vegan super powers are greater. Life is too short for evangelical crap and the world needs too much diversity for there to ever be a mono-diet, no matter your feels on the subject of animal welfare.
*edited for spelling.
This
I haven't eaten meat in 34 years but cooked my son a steak for dinner.
Every woe has evangelists, just delete them and move on. Nobody has time for that ! 0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »ElizabethOakes2 wrote: »If I'm not supposed to eat meat, why do I teeth evolutionarily designed for eating meat? ...
But our teeth are designed to eat meat AND veggies, not just one or the other. Humans are physically omnivores, though someone going on a vegan/vegetarian diet does fine as long as they get the nutrients from meat in another way. Most people I know that are vegan or vegetarian do so because of moral and ethical reasons, not because they believe it's the most appropriate diet for humans.
Saying vegans do fine as long as they get their nutrients in other ways is just like saying people who eat meat will do fine as long as they get their nutrients in other ways. I've never met someone who just ate Meat and Vegans don't just eat lettuce. This is a huge misconception people have that needs to be cleared up because just cutting meat out of your diet and not changing anything else will not make you deficient. Take a gander at all of those cereal boxes, protein supplements and processed food labels in your kitchen and you'll see where you really get all of your nutrients from that are fortified with B12, D, B, Iron, Calcium, etc? The fact is that we can get all of our nutrients from plants but since people are sold lies and don't eat healthy, most of us get them from fortified foods! But if you don't believe me, go get a blood test and see if you are deficient in anything. It makes no difference if you are a meat eater or vegan. Learn more about nutrition and eat more varieties of plant foods or continue eating fortified processed foods or take your vitamins.
I fully believe that vegans can thrive without animal products, but studies have shown that there are some specific deficiencies that are more common in those who don't eat animal products. It's okay to acknowledge that.
Well, being that the majority of processed foods in stores contain animal products and they do fortify them with these additional nutrients...I'll give you that much, but the confusion lies there. What I'm saying is that by you just eating animals has very little or nothing to do with you getting your B12, D, Calcium, Iron, etc nutrients. You are getting most of these nutrients from "fortified animal products" off the shelf. Obviously, Vegans will stop eating meat and dairy products but they are coming out with many more fortified products that are vegan too. So what it really comes down to for any consumer is to educate yourself and eat a variety of plant foods, keep eating fortified processed foods or just take vitamins.
I understand what you're saying (that non-vegans tend to get vitamins from fortified foods), but regardless of the reasons for the increased rate of deficiencies among vegans, it's useful information for newer vegans to be aware of so that they can maintain their health.0 -
Dang!! Wish I hadn't read this... I don't know how i feel about it all since I just picked up 20 pounds of ground fresh venison at the processor station, and truthfully all i was thinking about as super low fat very high protein, and it is not fish for a change. Sorry not trying to offend just a Tennessee country boy raised poor so we only had meat from the woods and vegies right out of our garden. A very close friend of mine is actually a vegan and he seems pretty cool to me.. city boy but still cool!!! I just told him this past evening how I can understand how he is vegan and could actually get by on them myself. Counting calories and looking at nutrient content has been a huge eye opener for me. For now however I have a freezer loaded with a majestic buck that I must honor by not allowing his life to have passed in vain. I am very respectful to his sacrifice for my family's benefit. My dad had an iron rule that we were raised on " If you kill it you will eat it" .... after my BB gun experience I can tell you all this right now, toad frog does not taste good at all.
You can donate the meat if you want. I know there are some organizations that will accept donated game meat to ground up and send to homeless shelters. You'll have to look up and see if there's one in your area. Or maybe donate it directly to a shelter. That way, you can start down the path you want to go, but the meat doesn't go to waste.
OOPs sorry for projecting the wrong perception of my personal intent. Like I said very low fat very high protein!!
I simply understand my vegan friend much better now that i am looking at the calories and the nutrition of all foods.
Also just a point for reference he was ordered by his doctor to change his diet or eat some meat because he had become anemic or something like that... weak and getting sick all the time. He is a very good friend but he now eats some meat.. fish and LOL venison. He still eats mostly the way he used to except for that change.
I am not sure he was viewing being a vegan as an animal rights thing I think he was seeking the health benefits of it. I am a true believer in balance and moderation.. and funny thing is i also tend to gravitate towards kosher foods for example scaled fish over smooth skin ones, avoid bottom feeding creatures, avoid pork like the plague and things like that but it is not my religion just my common sense kicking in i think. I hope at least at 53 years old i still am able to learn change and adapt to a life style that is both healthy and happy. I am enjoying simply doing the math and learning which foods add up to a nutritional balance for me. Deer, fish, turkey breast, chicken breast and some beef will all remain a part of my diet as long as I am 100% in charge of me. (the day that drops to 99% I hope I'm buried the next day)
Many doctors don't understand veganism or how to properly resolve nutritional deficiencies. If vegans develop deficiencies, those can be resolved on a plant-based diet. There are vegan sources of iron.0 -
ElizabethOakes2 wrote: »If I'm not supposed to eat meat, why do I teeth evolutionarily designed for eating meat? ...
But our teeth are designed to eat meat AND veggies, not just one or the other. Humans are physically omnivores, though someone going on a vegan/vegetarian diet does fine as long as they get the nutrients from meat in another way. Most people I know that are vegan or vegetarian do so because of moral and ethical reasons, not because they believe it's the most appropriate diet for humans.
Saying vegans do fine as long as they get their nutrients in other ways is just like saying people who eat meat will do fine as long as they get their nutrients in other ways. I've never met someone who just ate Meat and Vegans don't just eat lettuce. This is a huge misconception people have that needs to be cleared up because just cutting meat out of your diet and not changing anything else will not make you deficient. Take a gander at all of those cereal boxes, protein supplements and processed food labels in your kitchen and you'll see where you really get all of your nutrients from that are fortified with B12, D, B, Iron, Calcium, etc? The fact is that we can get all of our nutrients from plants but since people are sold lies and don't eat healthy, most of us get them from fortified foods! But if you don't believe me, go get a blood test and see if you are deficient in anything. It makes no difference if you are a meat eater or vegan. Learn more about nutrition and eat more varieties of plant foods or continue eating fortified processed foods or take your vitamins.
I know vegans do just fine. I said that because there are people that see it as a way to lose weight, assume it's "just eat all veggies", and then wonder why they have issues with things like fatigue. I know that's not what vegan/vegetarian is, but I tend to generalize for posting because I know there are people that don't know how to balance a vegan diet for whatever reason.
And for the record, I have been tested and I'm B12 deficient, but it's because I can seem to absorb it when I eat it, even when doing the sub-lingual drops. I don't know why, my doctor doesn't know why, but doing the intramuscular shots keeps that level up to at least the minimum, so that's what I do.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »ElizabethOakes2 wrote: »If I'm not supposed to eat meat, why do I teeth evolutionarily designed for eating meat? ...
But our teeth are designed to eat meat AND veggies, not just one or the other. Humans are physically omnivores, though someone going on a vegan/vegetarian diet does fine as long as they get the nutrients from meat in another way. Most people I know that are vegan or vegetarian do so because of moral and ethical reasons, not because they believe it's the most appropriate diet for humans.
Saying vegans do fine as long as they get their nutrients in other ways is just like saying people who eat meat will do fine as long as they get their nutrients in other ways. I've never met someone who just ate Meat and Vegans don't just eat lettuce. This is a huge misconception people have that needs to be cleared up because just cutting meat out of your diet and not changing anything else will not make you deficient. Take a gander at all of those cereal boxes, protein supplements and processed food labels in your kitchen and you'll see where you really get all of your nutrients from that are fortified with B12, D, B, Iron, Calcium, etc? The fact is that we can get all of our nutrients from plants but since people are sold lies and don't eat healthy, most of us get them from fortified foods! But if you don't believe me, go get a blood test and see if you are deficient in anything. It makes no difference if you are a meat eater or vegan. Learn more about nutrition and eat more varieties of plant foods or continue eating fortified processed foods or take your vitamins.
I fully believe that vegans can thrive without animal products, but studies have shown that there are some specific deficiencies that are more common in those who don't eat animal products. It's okay to acknowledge that.
Well, being that the majority of processed foods in stores contain animal products and they do fortify them with these additional nutrients...I'll give you that much, but the confusion lies there. What I'm saying is that by you just eating animals has very little or nothing to do with you getting your B12, D, Calcium, Iron, etc nutrients. You are getting most of these nutrients from "fortified animal products" off the shelf. Obviously, Vegans will stop eating meat and dairy products but they are coming out with many more fortified products that are vegan too. So what it really comes down to for any consumer is to educate yourself and eat a variety of plant foods, keep eating fortified processed foods or just take vitamins.
I understand what you're saying (that non-vegans tend to get vitamins from fortified foods), but regardless of the reasons for the increased rate of deficiencies among vegans, it's useful information for newer vegans to be aware of so that they can maintain their health.
I agree with you that people need to know so that they can make healthier decisions. When I hear the word vegan I just don't think of someone healthy because when I go out to eat at a vegan restaurant once a week, I don't see many healthy looking people. They are just not eating meat and dairy but they are still eating all of the processed foods just like before. This is why I like to emphasis it doesn't matter if you are vegan or not because most people might be deficient and not even know it. When we get sick, that's a good sign of it and our bodies begging us to get the nutrients we need or we'll end up bed ridden until we do. I'm pretty sure that's why we only crave soup when we are ill instead of junk food 0 -
CoffeeNCardio wrote: »ElizabethOakes2 wrote: »If I'm not supposed to eat meat, why do I teeth evolutionarily designed for eating meat? ...
But our teeth are designed to eat meat AND veggies, not just one or the other. Humans are physically omnivores, though someone going on a vegan/vegetarian diet does fine as long as they get the nutrients from meat in another way. Most people I know that are vegan or vegetarian do so because of moral and ethical reasons, not because they believe it's the most appropriate diet for humans.
I wholeheartedly agree. I don't think it could matter less what we are biologically designed to eat. We're human, in the era of technology and the longest average lifespan in recorded history. Our teeth mean nothing anymore because we have outgrown evolution. Natural Selection no longer applies to us. We don't leave the runt of our litter to die because they can't fight their siblings for the last share of food. We have canines because they were required to crawl to the top of the food chain. Which no longer applies to us. Teeth mean nothing to this argument. Vegans, non-militant normal vegans, have profound ethical reasons for why they don't consume animal products/buy products that were tested on animals. Bringing up dental structure, on either side of this argument, as a means to make one side look superior is a cheap and intellectually absurd way to discuss how we "should" eat. And it cheapens and discards the very real concerns for animal welfare that decent people use to make the choice to be vegan. As a meat eater, I would never use the "but I have canines!" argument in defense of my omnivorism, and nor should a vegan use the opposite.
I am willing to be scientists would disagree with your statement that natural selection no longer applies to us. A species does not "outgrow" evolution. It's part of how a species continues to avoid extinction.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »ElizabethOakes2 wrote: »If I'm not supposed to eat meat, why do I teeth evolutionarily designed for eating meat? ...
But our teeth are designed to eat meat AND veggies, not just one or the other. Humans are physically omnivores, though someone going on a vegan/vegetarian diet does fine as long as they get the nutrients from meat in another way. Most people I know that are vegan or vegetarian do so because of moral and ethical reasons, not because they believe it's the most appropriate diet for humans.
Saying vegans do fine as long as they get their nutrients in other ways is just like saying people who eat meat will do fine as long as they get their nutrients in other ways. I've never met someone who just ate Meat and Vegans don't just eat lettuce. This is a huge misconception people have that needs to be cleared up because just cutting meat out of your diet and not changing anything else will not make you deficient. Take a gander at all of those cereal boxes, protein supplements and processed food labels in your kitchen and you'll see where you really get all of your nutrients from that are fortified with B12, D, B, Iron, Calcium, etc? The fact is that we can get all of our nutrients from plants but since people are sold lies and don't eat healthy, most of us get them from fortified foods! But if you don't believe me, go get a blood test and see if you are deficient in anything. It makes no difference if you are a meat eater or vegan. Learn more about nutrition and eat more varieties of plant foods or continue eating fortified processed foods or take your vitamins.
I fully believe that vegans can thrive without animal products, but studies have shown that there are some specific deficiencies that are more common in those who don't eat animal products. It's okay to acknowledge that.
Well, being that the majority of processed foods in stores contain animal products and they do fortify them with these additional nutrients...I'll give you that much, but the confusion lies there. What I'm saying is that by you just eating animals has very little or nothing to do with you getting your B12, D, Calcium, Iron, etc nutrients. You are getting most of these nutrients from "fortified animal products" off the shelf. Obviously, Vegans will stop eating meat and dairy products but they are coming out with many more fortified products that are vegan too. So what it really comes down to for any consumer is to educate yourself and eat a variety of plant foods, keep eating fortified processed foods or just take vitamins.
I understand what you're saying (that non-vegans tend to get vitamins from fortified foods), but regardless of the reasons for the increased rate of deficiencies among vegans, it's useful information for newer vegans to be aware of so that they can maintain their health.
I agree with you that people need to know so that they can make healthier decisions. When I hear the word vegan I just don't think of someone healthy because when I go out to eat at a vegan restaurant once a week, I don't see many healthy looking people. They are just not eating meat and dairy but they are still eating all of the processed foods just like before. This is why I like to emphasis it doesn't matter if you are vegan or not because most people might be deficient and not even know it. When we get sick, that's a good sign of it and our bodies begging us to get the nutrients we need or we'll end up bed ridden until we do. I'm pretty sure that's why we only crave soup when we are ill instead of junk food
If someone has a deficiency, it's unlikely that processed foods are the cause. In fact, processing often makes more vitamins and minerals available to us -- either because many processed foods are fortified or because the processing makes the vitamins and minerals more available to us (for example, an unprocessed flax seed will just pass through our body without contributing many nutrients, but a ground flax seed has many more nutrients that we can digest).
Today I had processed cashew milk that was fortified with Vitamin D, calcium, and vitamin B12. I had a processed flour tortilla with lunch that was fortified with many nutrients, including folic acid. I had some processed tea leaves that were rich in antioxidants. For dinner I am going to have some processed coconut milk that will contribute healthful fats to my body. I will have some frozen cauliflower, a processed food that is rich in fiber and vitamin A. I will have some processed seitan which will help me meet my protein goals. I could go on and on . . . . processed foods are key to my health.0 -
Youtube: VeganGains
Pretty funny stuff... (in a bad way)0
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