High vs. Low carbs
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Also, wtf are we defining as "low carb". 40% daily cals? 20% daily cals? 5% daily cals? 100g a day? 50g? 20g?0
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Please continue high carb, why eat fat to lose fat? It's absurd. Keep sticking to your carb load because you'll need the energy throughout the day no matter what you're doing to get it done.
This is a great example of being severely misinformed about how fat acts in regards to nutrition. You ABSOLUTELY have to eat fat to lose fat. Fat that you eat doesn't turn into body fat.... Carbs do! There are thousands of studies and evidence to prove this. Processed carbs spike glucose levels, and then what is not used (most of it) is immediately stored as fat. Why do you think you love carbs so much? Because it's actually a sugar addiction. This is why we all are struggling...
It's not your fault though. The media and government is constantly giving you terrible advice and trying to trick us into eating more grains and sugar for their own gains. You're an example of a success of theirs.
https://www.ketovangelist.com/category/ketogenic_studies/
Also you don't understand how cholesterol works either. Cholesterol issues happen when you eat constant processed carbs (bread, pasta, etc) in conjunction with high fat. It's not the fatty meats that are the problem, it's the breads. These create a constant state of inflammation in your body with wreaks havoc on your health.
I eat super fatty cuts of meat every day and I have great cholesterol levels. What I don't eat, is processed carbs or sugar.
I am sorry but that is dead wrong. The only way that carbs get stored as fat is if one is in a calorie surplus. I get 50% of my calories from carbs, and I have had zero issues losing and maintaining my weight. Excess calories make people fat, period. Please link us to studies showing that carbs get stored as fat in a calorie deficit.
For the record, protein spikes your insulin levels as much as carbs, but I don't see anyone running around saying that protein gets stored as fat.
And there are no human clinical studies showing that sugar is an addictive substance.
Generally the rise in insulin from protein is less than that from carbohydrates. Less insulin us required for protein than carbs.
Thi seems contradictory to some of the information provided by knowledgable people in the field. Is there a list to reference for insulin uptake for food which is being used to distinguish the different food types and the insulin response? My understanding was insulin is greater for certain proteins then say a piece of white bread. Do you have a reference for the insulin response or is this just a belief?
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So why are you limiting your protein if this is true? My understanding was some proteins create a greater response for insulin then some carbs. Is there list, I'm not sure. Your quote above was attached to ndj's quote stating carbs and proteins get the same response in insulin. So, he stated no one is running around saying protein isn't get stored as fat and you disagreed. I'm curious if you know which proteins, and probably a better question would be the why, have a response the same or greater then certain carbohydrates. It would probably help people to understand their issues related to insulin resistance and for diabetics working toward improving their blood glucose markers.Please continue high carb, why eat fat to lose fat? It's absurd. Keep sticking to your carb load because you'll need the energy throughout the day no matter what you're doing to get it done.
This is a great example of being severely misinformed about how fat acts in regards to nutrition. You ABSOLUTELY have to eat fat to lose fat. Fat that you eat doesn't turn into body fat.... Carbs do! There are thousands of studies and evidence to prove this. Processed carbs spike glucose levels, and then what is not used (most of it) is immediately stored as fat. Why do you think you love carbs so much? Because it's actually a sugar addiction. This is why we all are struggling...
It's not your fault though. The media and government is constantly giving you terrible advice and trying to trick us into eating more grains and sugar for their own gains. You're an example of a success of theirs.
https://www.ketovangelist.com/category/ketogenic_studies/
Also you don't understand how cholesterol works either. Cholesterol issues happen when you eat constant processed carbs (bread, pasta, etc) in conjunction with high fat. It's not the fatty meats that are the problem, it's the breads. These create a constant state of inflammation in your body with wreaks havoc on your health.
I eat super fatty cuts of meat every day and I have great cholesterol levels. What I don't eat, is processed carbs or sugar.
I am sorry but that is dead wrong. The only way that carbs get stored as fat is if one is in a calorie surplus. I get 50% of my calories from carbs, and I have had zero issues losing and maintaining my weight. Excess calories make people fat, period. Please link us to studies showing that carbs get stored as fat in a calorie deficit.
For the record, protein spikes your insulin levels as much as carbs, but I don't see anyone running around saying that protein gets stored as fat.
And there are no human clinical studies showing that sugar is an addictive substance.
Generally the rise in insulin from protein is less than that from carbohydrates. Less insulin us required for protein than carbs.
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rankinsect wrote: »
And yes, I agree you can minimize that by combating it with strength training simultaneously in order to sustain muscle mass. (Or you can adopt Keto... oh wait, I won't go there again...)
Keto doesn't help at all in terms of maintaining muscle mass vs. not being in keto, except in that keto diets tend to be higher in protein, and protein does promote muscle conservation.
But at a diet controlled for protein, how much carbs vs. fat you have won't make a real difference. Higher carb would actually be slightly better (insulin levels are higher, and insulin promotes muscle growth/maintenance) but the difference would be small. Protein is the major dietary factor.
I asked in a different thread long ago and never got an answer.
Wouldn't the lack of carbs which leads to gluconeogenesis from your protein result in lower net protein intake?0 -
I think it is part and parcel of the diet itself. Muscle retention and protein being increased seems to make sense. Controlling and even decreasing protein seems to lead to greater body fat over the coure of dieting. It seems counterintuitive to have a diet where you encouraging less muscle retention for health purposes.0
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Please continue high carb, why eat fat to lose fat? It's absurd. Keep sticking to your carb load because you'll need the energy throughout the day no matter what you're doing to get it done.
This is a great example of being severely misinformed about how fat acts in regards to nutrition. You ABSOLUTELY have to eat fat to lose fat. Fat that you eat doesn't turn into body fat.... Carbs do! There are thousands of studies and evidence to prove this. Processed carbs spike glucose levels, and then what is not used (most of it) is immediately stored as fat. Why do you think you love carbs so much? Because it's actually a sugar addiction. This is why we all are struggling...
It's not your fault though. The media and government is constantly giving you terrible advice and trying to trick us into eating more grains and sugar for their own gains. You're an example of a success of theirs.
https://www.ketovangelist.com/category/ketogenic_studies/
Also you don't understand how cholesterol works either. Cholesterol issues happen when you eat constant processed carbs (bread, pasta, etc) in conjunction with high fat. It's not the fatty meats that are the problem, it's the breads. These create a constant state of inflammation in your body with wreaks havoc on your health.
I eat super fatty cuts of meat every day and I have great cholesterol levels. What I don't eat, is processed carbs or sugar.
I am sorry but that is dead wrong. The only way that carbs get stored as fat is if one is in a calorie surplus. I get 50% of my calories from carbs, and I have had zero issues losing and maintaining my weight. Excess calories make people fat, period. Please link us to studies showing that carbs get stored as fat in a calorie deficit.
For the record, protein spikes your insulin levels as much as carbs, but I don't see anyone running around saying that protein gets stored as fat.
And there are no human clinical studies showing that sugar is an addictive substance.
Generally the rise in insulin from protein is less than that from carbohydrates. Less insulin us required for protein than carbs.
actually, it has been shown to be the same…..
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/index.php/free-content/free-content/volume-1-issue-7-insulin-and-thinking-better/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/0 -
Carbs jack up Cholesterol? Do you associate carbs with chips, ice cream, cookies, and just food? Those are all high fat foods! When I'm talking about carbs, I mean grains, vegetables, fruits, legumes, and starches! All those foods have close to 0 cholesterol, many have none. Meat on the other hand and other fatty foods, are wayyyy high in Chol.
The most recent research calls into question the assumption that dietary cholesterol is directly related to serum cholesterol. Since you suggest you are repeatedly posting "facts" here to protect the OP, you should do some research to ensure your "facts" are correct.
As to the relation between carbs and cholesterol, there is growing evidence that low carb increases good cholesterol and decreases bad cholesterol.:
"Low-carbohydrate weight loss diets have an edge over low-fat diets for improving HDL cholesterol levels long term, according to a study funded by the National Institutes of Health.
Dieters who followed low-carb or low-fat plans for two years along with a lifestyle modification program lost the same amount of weight -- on average about 7% of their body weight or 15 pounds.
But throughout the two-year study, low-carbohydrate dieters had significantly increased HDL, or "good," cholesterol levels compared to low-fat dieters." http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/news/20100802/low-carb-diets-improve-cholesterol-long-term
"The low-carb diet was most beneficial for lowering triglycerides, the main fat-carrying particle in the bloodstream, and also delivered the biggest boost in protective HDL cholesterol.
. . .
Research shows that a moderately low-carbohydrate diet can help the heart, as long as protein and fat selections come from healthy sources."
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/low-carbohydrate-diets/
here is where I take issue with the WebMD article. They took 300 obese people so of course they are going to have improved health markers when they lose weight. Also, why did they not control the calorie intake in both groups? The low carb group did not have a set calorie number and the other group was just told to eat between 1200 to 1800 a day…
Any WOE that promotes hitting micro nutrients, macros, and hitting calorie targets to lose weight is going to result in better health markers. Low Carb is not anymore healthier than any other WOE.
Please point out anyplace - not just in this thread, but anywhere - that I said that low carb was healthier than any other WOE.
I was countering a specific challenge by an individual who asserted that a high carb diet couldn't possibly be connected to high cholesterol by linking to two independent articles, both of which acknowledged that lower carb diets appear to be associated with reduced cardiovascular risk (as compared to both lower calorie and higher carb diets).
As to your specific criticism, many advocates promote low carb/keto as weight loss without the need to count calories - and that is the experience of many who eat that way. It makes sense to test the diet the way it is advocated. Over a period of 2 years, each group lost identical amounts. That fact, alone, supports the contention that LC creates a natural calorie deficit - without the need to count. And if they ended up with equivalent calorie deficits (as measured by the equivalent weight loss), the lack of a specific restriction on calories could not - as actually implemented with respect to calories - have impacted the results. If your concern is that the calorie group was not given additional restrictions, you should re-read the study. The calorie restricted group was also restricted as to fat content.
And if you still don't like the WebMD study, the Harvard paper includes a number of other underlying studies that reached the same conclusion - replacing some carbs with fat or protein did a better job of reducing cardiovascular risk.
I never said that you said that.
I am just pointing out the flaws in the webMD article and am saying that LC is not any healthier than any other WOE.
They reduced their cardiovascular risk because they lose weight, not because they replaced carbs with anything.0 -
Wrong! Basics need to be applied individually to each person. If I netted 1500 calories a day I'd be a scarecrow, not to mention hormonally imbalanced. Please stop posting generic advice like this without knowing anything about the individual you're speaking to. It's dangerous.
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CamilleRose237 wrote: »Since I started eating clean and watching macros (I don't count every meal), I have limited the carbs I eat in terms of pastas, whit breads, etc. I weight train every day and do cardio. However I've seen little change in my body fat on my stomach. Recently I've been eating a "carb load" in the morning with my usual breakfast and limiting them for the rest of the day and am seeing slight improvement. Any advice on eating higher or lower carbs to cut body fat?
Everybody is different .
I eat 150grams of Carbs on average and I do cardio for 2 1/2 hours.
maybe try to increase your cardio.0 -
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CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »ok what i want to know is why someone who is saying carbs are the answer yet says that people should eat grains,veggies and fruits and then their diary contains little to no fruits and veggies on most days and most of it is processed carbs and cereal? sorry but I dont think that you should tell people to eat the "healthier" carbs and to avoid the junk food(processed carbs" yet you are doing just that. dont preach to the choir unless you have your sermon in check.
Explain why I eat unprocessed carbs and still weigh 153 lbs then. Carbs are carbs.
you dont eat many unprocessed carbs I see a lot of cereal,gummies, cookies,etc on your diary,yet you are saying those things will cause my high cholesterol and so on. I dont hardly eat those things like I said. I never said carbs werent carbs. you are the one who says that those things cause health issues and proceeded to promote fruits,veggies and grains yet your diary shows you dont eat much when it comes to fruits and veggies. more grains and processed food than anything. what I am saying is,dont promote one way of eating if you arent going to do it yourself. dont tell people to avoid thing because they will cause health issues yet you do it. as for your weight. you are obviously eating at maintenance and its not going to matter what you eat. if you havent gained or lost then you are in maintenance. its that easy to figure out.
It's hard to get the right kind of foods when your college dining hall doesn't always have the best options.0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »@OMP33
We don't have to keep arguing. If you're happy with your lifestyle that is great. However, as others have said, do some research before you start spreading advice that can actually kill them.
This is a fun movie to watch, and it's funny yet informative. It's a good place to start.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/196879
You're the one spreading misinformation! Go watch Forks over Knives! A whole food-plant based diet is the healthiest one to live! If you really think eating butter and saturated fat foods is GOOD for you, then you really need a reality check. Open your diary and let's see what you're eating. Here's some links for you..
Meat Hormones & Female Infertility
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/meat-hormones-female-infertility/
Why is Meat a Risk Factor for Diabetes?
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/why-is-meat-a-risk-factor-for-diabetes/
Meat and Weight Gain in the PANACEA Study
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/meat-and-weight-gain-in-the-panacea-study/
What are the Healthiest Foods?
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/what-are-the-healthiest-foods/
*scratches head*
So a biased propaganda film is your main source? You took everything that Forks over Knives said as gospel?
So you're going to comment about the film I cited but not the studies. Cool.0 -
PlantBasedKnight wrote: »@Wetcoaster I agree. and I will clarify what I meant by carbs:
Carbs when I mention them are:
whole Fruits (not only juice or canned)
whole Vegetables (raw or steamed or lightly cooked)
whole Root vegetables (steamed or boiled) ****
Squashes (steamed boiled or roasted)
Whole grains (wheat, rice, corn, barley, oats etc..) boiled, or made into a dough. minimally processed ****
whole Legumes (cooked steamed or roasted)
non of the above should be prepared fried, with oil/butter, or any type of fat on earth.
**** This does not include in any case the following: chips, crisps, white flour products, supermarket cakes and cookies and biscuits as they are actually fats not carbs, pretzels and processed junk alike.
That God you're here man. Some people on MFP forums preach HFLC and have no idea what they're doing to themselves and their bodies. Many ppl associate carbs with ice cream, cookies, chips, and oils. You and I, as HCLF, put those foods in the fat category, not carbs. You're a blessing to see in this forum my friend, so many ppl are uniformed.0 -
Also, wtf are we defining as "low carb". 40% daily cals? 20% daily cals? 5% daily cals? 100g a day? 50g? 20g?
I eat 3000 calories a day and try to get 600g of carbs a day, I would like to think I eat in excess. Plus HCLF forum would say that around 10% of daily calories from fats would be low. I stick to a 80/10/10.0 -
Please continue high carb, why eat fat to lose fat? It's absurd. Keep sticking to your carb load because you'll need the energy throughout the day no matter what you're doing to get it done.
This is a great example of being severely misinformed about how fat acts in regards to nutrition. You ABSOLUTELY have to eat fat to lose fat. Fat that you eat doesn't turn into body fat.... Carbs do! There are thousands of studies and evidence to prove this. Processed carbs spike glucose levels, and then what is not used (most of it) is immediately stored as fat. Why do you think you love carbs so much? Because it's actually a sugar addiction. This is why we all are struggling...
It's not your fault though. The media and government is constantly giving you terrible advice and trying to trick us into eating more grains and sugar for their own gains. You're an example of a success of theirs.
https://www.ketovangelist.com/category/ketogenic_studies/
Also you don't understand how cholesterol works either. Cholesterol issues happen when you eat constant processed carbs (bread, pasta, etc) in conjunction with high fat. It's not the fatty meats that are the problem, it's the breads. These create a constant state of inflammation in your body with wreaks havoc on your health.
I eat super fatty cuts of meat every day and I have great cholesterol levels. What I don't eat, is processed carbs or sugar.
I am sorry but that is dead wrong. The only way that carbs get stored as fat is if one is in a calorie surplus. I get 50% of my calories from carbs, and I have had zero issues losing and maintaining my weight. Excess calories make people fat, period. Please link us to studies showing that carbs get stored as fat in a calorie deficit.
For the record, protein spikes your insulin levels as much as carbs, but I don't see anyone running around saying that protein gets stored as fat.
And there are no human clinical studies showing that sugar is an addictive substance.
Generally the rise in insulin from protein is less than that from carbohydrates. Less insulin us required for protein than carbs.
actually, it has been shown to be the same…..
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/index.php/free-content/free-content/volume-1-issue-7-insulin-and-thinking-better/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/
Meat is more insulin resistant than veggies and fruits my friend.0 -
That God you're here man. Some people on MFP forums preach HFLC and have no idea what they're doing to themselves and their bodies. Many ppl associate carbs with ice cream, cookies, chips, and oils. You and I, as HCLF, put those foods in the fat category, not carbs. You're a blessing to see in this forum my friend, so many ppl are uniformed.
In for the uniforms...
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Mischievous_Rascal wrote: »
Wrong! Basics need to be applied individually to each person. If I netted 1500 calories a day I'd be a scarecrow, not to mention hormonally imbalanced. Please stop posting generic advice like this without knowing anything about the individual you're speaking to. It's dangerous.
Weight loss is calories in vs. calories out. You can't argue that.0 -
Mischievous_Rascal wrote: »
Wrong! Basics need to be applied individually to each person. If I netted 1500 calories a day I'd be a scarecrow, not to mention hormonally imbalanced. Please stop posting generic advice like this without knowing anything about the individual you're speaking to. It's dangerous.
Weight loss is calories in vs. calories out. You can't argue that.
no one is arguing that it is not CICO.
what we are saying is that you can't just give OP a blanket recommendation to eat 1500 calories a day without knowing what OP's stats are i.e. height, weight, age, gender....
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Please continue high carb, why eat fat to lose fat? It's absurd. Keep sticking to your carb load because you'll need the energy throughout the day no matter what you're doing to get it done.
This is a great example of being severely misinformed about how fat acts in regards to nutrition. You ABSOLUTELY have to eat fat to lose fat. Fat that you eat doesn't turn into body fat.... Carbs do! There are thousands of studies and evidence to prove this. Processed carbs spike glucose levels, and then what is not used (most of it) is immediately stored as fat. Why do you think you love carbs so much? Because it's actually a sugar addiction. This is why we all are struggling...
It's not your fault though. The media and government is constantly giving you terrible advice and trying to trick us into eating more grains and sugar for their own gains. You're an example of a success of theirs.
https://www.ketovangelist.com/category/ketogenic_studies/
Also you don't understand how cholesterol works either. Cholesterol issues happen when you eat constant processed carbs (bread, pasta, etc) in conjunction with high fat. It's not the fatty meats that are the problem, it's the breads. These create a constant state of inflammation in your body with wreaks havoc on your health.
I eat super fatty cuts of meat every day and I have great cholesterol levels. What I don't eat, is processed carbs or sugar.
I am sorry but that is dead wrong. The only way that carbs get stored as fat is if one is in a calorie surplus. I get 50% of my calories from carbs, and I have had zero issues losing and maintaining my weight. Excess calories make people fat, period. Please link us to studies showing that carbs get stored as fat in a calorie deficit.
For the record, protein spikes your insulin levels as much as carbs, but I don't see anyone running around saying that protein gets stored as fat.
And there are no human clinical studies showing that sugar is an addictive substance.
Generally the rise in insulin from protein is less than that from carbohydrates. Less insulin us required for protein than carbs.
actually, it has been shown to be the same…..
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/index.php/free-content/free-content/volume-1-issue-7-insulin-and-thinking-better/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/
Meat is more insulin resistant than veggies and fruits my friend.
that is not what we were discussing....0 -
_Terrapin_ wrote: »
So why are you limiting your protein if this is true? My understanding was some proteins create a greater response for insulin then some carbs. Is there list, I'm not sure. Your quote above was attached to ndj's quote stating carbs and proteins get the same response in insulin. So, he stated no one is running around saying protein isn't get stored as fat and you disagreed. I'm curious if you know which proteins, and probably a better question would be the why, have a response the same or greater then certain carbohydrates. It would probably help people to understand their issues related to insulin resistance and for diabetics working toward improving their blood glucose markers.
Generally the rise in insulin from protein is less than that from carbohydrates. Less insulin us required for protein than carbs.
In connection with diabetes, chronic kidney disease is a known risk of diabetes and excess protein is hard for the kidneys to process.
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How long have you been doing the High vs Low?
If you don't see any changes maybe it's best you stay consistent on High or Moderate carbs until you start to see some changes.
Also what are your workouts like? and do you workout daily?
The days you are resting consume a lower amount of carbs
I personally stay the same with my carb intake as long as I am 5g within my macro goals, I will see changes in 2 days.I have been doing this for so many years so I know what works for my body, and I have no restrictions at all.
It's trial and error but as long as you stay consist you will see results no matter what 0 -
_Terrapin_ wrote: »
So why are you limiting your protein if this is true? My understanding was some proteins create a greater response for insulin then some carbs. Is there list, I'm not sure. Your quote above was attached to ndj's quote stating carbs and proteins get the same response in insulin. So, he stated no one is running around saying protein isn't get stored as fat and you disagreed. I'm curious if you know which proteins, and probably a better question would be the why, have a response the same or greater then certain carbohydrates. It would probably help people to understand their issues related to insulin resistance and for diabetics working toward improving their blood glucose markers.
Generally the rise in insulin from protein is less than that from carbohydrates. Less insulin us required for protein than carbs.
In connection with diabetes, chronic kidney disease is a known risk of diabetes and excess protein is hard for the kidneys to process.
you would have to be eating an insane amount of protein to cause kidney damage....like 75% of your calories would need to be from protein, and that would need to be sustained protein intake...0 -
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I never said that you said that.
I am just pointing out the flaws in the webMD article and am saying that LC is not any healthier than any other WOE.
They reduced their cardiovascular risk because they lose weight, not because they replaced carbs with anything.
Really? The reduced cardiovascular risk of the group consuming low carb compared to the group consuming high carb is because of weight loss? Last time I checked, when the results are different, the factor that is chosen to correlate with the different results needs to be different. The two groups experienced substantially identical weigh loss. So, no. Weight loss does not explain the better results achieved by those consuming a low carb diet.
Here's another study over a period of nearly 4 years, with the same results - including individuals who switched from high carb to low carb after the first 6 months so there are direct comparisons between the same individual consuming 20% carbohydrates and 55-65% carbohydrates.
"We have examined medical charts for episodes of cardiovascular disease beginning 3 months after the initiation of the diet therapy.
Among the 16 patients in the low-carbohydrate diet group (41 months observations time) and among the 7 controls that changed from the high-carbohydrate diet to the opposite (33 months observations time) – totalling 23 patients – 2 patients have suffered cardiovascular disease, stroke and heart failure respectively (8.5%. 95% confidence interval (CI 95%): 1.0–28.0). One patient without known cardiac disease has died suddenly. Autopsy showed no sign of coronary thrombosis, myocardial infarction or stroke. The cause of death unknown but assumed to be general atherosclerosis.
As for the 3 controls who switched diet at later dates, there has been no occurrence of cardiovascular disease.
Four patients (80%. CI 95%: 28.3–99.5) among the 5 controls that never attempted any change of diet have suffered several heart infarctions followed by heart failure. Two of them have died from their heart disease (p = 0.025. Fischer Exact)."
http://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-5-140 -
I feel sorry for the OP0
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I never said that you said that.
I am just pointing out the flaws in the webMD article and am saying that LC is not any healthier than any other WOE.
They reduced their cardiovascular risk because they lose weight, not because they replaced carbs with anything.
Really? The reduced cardiovascular risk of the group consuming low carb compared to the group consuming high carb is because of weight loss? Last time I checked, when the results are different, the factor that is chosen to correlate with the different results needs to be different. The two groups experienced substantially identical weigh loss. So, no. Weight loss does not explain the better results achieved by those consuming a low carb diet.
Here's another study over a period of nearly 4 years, with the same results - including individuals who switched from high carb to low carb after the first 6 months so there are direct comparisons between the same individual consuming 20% carbohydrates and 55-65% carbohydrates.
"We have examined medical charts for episodes of cardiovascular disease beginning 3 months after the initiation of the diet therapy.
Among the 16 patients in the low-carbohydrate diet group (41 months observations time) and among the 7 controls that changed from the high-carbohydrate diet to the opposite (33 months observations time) – totalling 23 patients – 2 patients have suffered cardiovascular disease, stroke and heart failure respectively (8.5%. 95% confidence interval (CI 95%): 1.0–28.0). One patient without known cardiac disease has died suddenly. Autopsy showed no sign of coronary thrombosis, myocardial infarction or stroke. The cause of death unknown but assumed to be general atherosclerosis.
As for the 3 controls who switched diet at later dates, there has been no occurrence of cardiovascular disease.
Four patients (80%. CI 95%: 28.3–99.5) among the 5 controls that never attempted any change of diet have suffered several heart infarctions followed by heart failure. Two of them have died from their heart disease (p = 0.025. Fischer Exact)."
http://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-5-14
that is a study of people with type 2 diabetes...I assumed we were talking about people with no known medical condition...
ETA - I am not really understanding how they "tested" for cardiovascular disease? They took obese people and then reviewed their charts after the diet, but what if they had already done the damage through previous years of overeating and no exercise? They also say that two people on the low carb diet suffered heart disease...0 -
Some varieties of chips and cookies are just as much of a carb source as they are fat. In some cases, cookies have more calories from carbs than fat.PlantBasedKnight wrote: »@Wetcoaster I agree. and I will clarify what I meant by carbs:
Carbs when I mention them are:
whole Fruits (not only juice or canned)
whole Vegetables (raw or steamed or lightly cooked)
whole Root vegetables (steamed or boiled) ****
Squashes (steamed boiled or roasted)
Whole grains (wheat, rice, corn, barley, oats etc..) boiled, or made into a dough. minimally processed ****
whole Legumes (cooked steamed or roasted)
non of the above should be prepared fried, with oil/butter, or any type of fat on earth.
**** This does not include in any case the following: chips, crisps, white flour products, supermarket cakes and cookies and biscuits as they are actually fats not carbs, pretzels and processed junk alike.
That God you're here man. Some people on MFP forums preach HFLC and have no idea what they're doing to themselves and their bodies. Many ppl associate carbs with ice cream, cookies, chips, and oils. You and I, as HCLF, put those foods in the fat category, not carbs. You're a blessing to see in this forum my friend, so many ppl are uniformed.
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biggsterjackster wrote: »
Hmm interesting I eat little to no Fat ( 50g) and Carbs gives me plenty of energy.0 -
Meat is more insulin resistant than veggies and fruits my friend.
FOOD is not insulin resistant. Human bodies are/can be insulin resistant.
That's at least the second time you've made a similar nonsensical comment - and I've already called you on it once.
Here's a decent description of insulin resistance:
The diminished ability of cells to respond to the action of insulin in transporting glucose (sugar) from the bloodstream into muscle and other tissues. Insulin resistance typically develops with obesity and heralds the onset of type 2 diabetes. It is as if insulin is "knocking" on the door of muscle. The muscle hears the knock, opens up, and lets glucose in. But with insulin resistance, the muscle cannot hear the knocking of the insulin (the muscle is "resistant"). The pancreas makes more insulin, which increases insulin levels in the blood and causes a louder "knock." Eventually, the pancreas produces far more insulin than normal and the muscles continue to be resistant to the knock. As long as one can produce enough insulin to overcome this resistance, blood glucose levels remain normal. Once the pancreas is no longer able to keep up, blood glucose starts to rise, initially after meals, eventually even in the fasting state. Type 2 diabetes is now overt.
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=18822
Please verify what you are saying before perpetuating scientific nonsense as fact, especially when you have already been told that it is nonsense.0 -
_Terrapin_ wrote: »
So why are you limiting your protein if this is true? My understanding was some proteins create a greater response for insulin then some carbs. Is there list, I'm not sure. Your quote above was attached to ndj's quote stating carbs and proteins get the same response in insulin. So, he stated no one is running around saying protein isn't get stored as fat and you disagreed. I'm curious if you know which proteins, and probably a better question would be the why, have a response the same or greater then certain carbohydrates. It would probably help people to understand their issues related to insulin resistance and for diabetics working toward improving their blood glucose markers.
Generally the rise in insulin from protein is less than that from carbohydrates. Less insulin us required for protein than carbs.
In connection with diabetes, chronic kidney disease is a known risk of diabetes and excess protein is hard for the kidneys to process.
you would have to be eating an insane amount of protein to cause kidney damage....like 75% of your calories would need to be from protein, and that would need to be sustained protein intake...
In a person without risk for kidney disease, that may well be correct - if you are talking about damage solely from consuming protein.
In a person at risk (anyone with diabetes), consumption should be considerably lower because of the underlying predisposition, but the risk of undiagnosed kidney disease. A December study documented that even moderately high blood sugar (prediabetes range) is been linked to chronic kidney disease - much of it undiagnosed until the later stages (the diagnoses in the study occurred because researchers were specifically looking for kidney disease and determined that the standard screening tests are missing the early stages of kidney disease).
In other words, in addition to being at greater risk - if you have had even prediabetes for an extended period of time you are far more likely to already have kidney disease and not know it. So it does not make medical sense for people with diabetes to trade protein for carbs - which might contribute to causing kidney damage or exacerbate existing diagnosed kidney disease.0
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