Why Calories In and Calories Out... It really ISN'T that simple.....
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I'm fine with CICO, however I have just changed Garmin watches, now got the vivoactive which is ace, but run's that gave me 900kcal usage previously now give 600..... (both using the same HR band) can I believe either of them, need more when I do exercise or I feel rubbish but how much is annoying me.
Have you changed the settings on either device? Why not use both at the same time and then post a thread.
A different thread.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »MaggieAustin15 wrote: »All this back lash and negative energy is not getting anywhere, why go against what someone says everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
That people are entitled to their own opinions (which just means what? people can think what they like?) certainly must not mean that assertions of fact (or alleged fact) should not go unchallenged if incorrect. If so, whatever happens to that idea of the marketplace of ideas, where good ideas win out and poor ideas die? For that matter, how do we ever discuss anything? Candidate A makes an assertion that another candidate disagrees with, and he or she merely says "well, of course that's a brilliant thought and I could never disagree with someone else's opinion?" A lawyer gets up to argue before the SC and the justices just say "oh, yes, absolutely right!" and the lawyer for the other side refuses to disagree.
What is the world coming to when being polite apparently means that you can never disagree with anything someone says, because they might feel bad.
Not to mention that I wouldn't want people just to nod and smile when I said something false or mistaken. I'd like to know or hear the opposing idea.
Back when I was in college this was typically assumed (and when people forgot it, they were argued with strongly). That was the adult way, not the idea that people's feelings were so sensitive they couldn't handle the notion that they were wrong.
MICROAGGRESSOR!0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »MaggieAustin15 wrote: »All this back lash and negative energy is not getting anywhere, why go against what someone says everyone is entitled to their own opinion. We are on here tying to stay healthy and record our food and exercise as well as encourage others and help them meet their goals. It is only my third day using this cite and all have seen is a bunch of adults acting like Junior High Kids in regards of going against others own opinions and virtues. Let people speak their mind on their own accords. I'm only 18 and have more dignity and respect then most adults that I know.
Preventing the spread of misinformation is important, especially for people who are new to weight loss and may be easily discouraged by all the arbitrary "rules" set forth by the various diet cults.
CICO is all that is required to lose weight. Everyone should start there.
How does CICO guarantee adherence?
I agree CICO is king but it is hardly the be all, end all. If it was just "eat less, move more" would end the issues of obesity everywhere.
There are real barriers to eating less. As important as CICO is, it is also important to address personal adherence to achieve long term success. Everyone should start with CICO and methods to achieve adherence.
Of course, but I'm sure Alyssa's point is that once you realize CICO is the answer, you will have the freedom to figure out what works for you to achieve it. There's not one size fits all answer as to how to achieve a calorie deficit. (For example, much as many people poo-poo the importance of exercise for weight loss, for me it is very important in how I maintain a calorie deficit.)
I think that the barriers to CICO -- figuring out why you are having trouble maintaining a deficit -- are much easier to address when you give up the idea that there's some mystical combinations of foods that will cause weight gain, no matter what, and some that will let you eat unlimited amounts, and realize it's a matter of figuring out how to keep your own calories in check. (I also think many people are resistant to the idea it's about calories, because they don't want to admit they've been eating too much.)0 -
I'm fine with CICO, however I have just changed Garmin watches, now got the vivoactive which is ace, but run's that gave me 900kcal usage previously now give 600..... (both using the same HR band) can I believe either of them, need more when I do exercise or I feel rubbish but how much is annoying me.
I switched to the Vivoactive and also found my burns much lower. So I'm going to go with trusting the lower burn. I used to not eat all my exercise calories as I suspected they were inflated. Now I do eat them because they're much more reasonable.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »MaggieAustin15 wrote: »All this back lash and negative energy is not getting anywhere, why go against what someone says everyone is entitled to their own opinion. We are on here tying to stay healthy and record our food and exercise as well as encourage others and help them meet their goals. It is only my third day using this cite and all have seen is a bunch of adults acting like Junior High Kids in regards of going against others own opinions and virtues. Let people speak their mind on their own accords. I'm only 18 and have more dignity and respect then most adults that I know.
Preventing the spread of misinformation is important, especially for people who are new to weight loss and may be easily discouraged by all the arbitrary "rules" set forth by the various diet cults.
CICO is all that is required to lose weight. Everyone should start there.
How does CICO guarantee adherence?
I agree CICO is king but it is hardly the be all, end all. If it was just "eat less, move more" would end the issues of obesity everywhere.
There are real barriers to eating less. As important as CICO is, it is also important to address personal adherence to achieve long term success. Everyone should start with CICO and methods to achieve adherence.
While I see what you're saying, regardless of the methods that you adhere to, if you're losing weight, you're following CICO.
CICO is, and always will be, all that is needed to lose weight. I feel like there is value in knowing that if you choose to follow low carb, high carb, moderate carb, IIFYM, BeachBody, or the cabbage soup diet, if you are losing weight, you are losing weight because of CICO. Perhaps understanding that will steer some away from a silly fad or wasting money on snake oil, or keep someone from feeling like a failure because they enjoyed some greasy pizza, or had a few beers, or ate a doughnut.0 -
Don't try to argue with the "True Believers" on this one...do what works for you and is nutritionally sound...for those those who can't take on a higher level of complexity than CI-CO, it'll work for them until it doesn't.nuttynanners wrote: »Ooooh, I wouldn't say a single word against CICO on MFP.....
As much as I agree that higher quality foods are going to be better for weight loss in the long run, MFP forums are not the place for that kind of thinking. They just don't want see it from that perspective.Tedebearduff wrote: »mrs_justice wrote: »Dr. Mark Hyman... maker of the movie Fed Up (you need to see it if you haven't) addresses the real reason that NOT ALL CALORIES ARE THE SAME....
Why I will choose....
100 calories of almonds vs. a processed 100 calorie granola bar.......
100 calories of berries vs. 100 calories of sugar added yogurt.......
drhyman.com/blog/2014/04/10/calories-dont-matter/
Without reading this, I've been saying this for years because your body has hormonal responses to food and there are no studies on this. Anytime I say anything I always get yelled at by the IIFYM crowd here, I hardly ever post anymore... because you know, I know nothing and IIFYM = life. Hopefully there is some decent info here!Floridaman789 wrote: »Yes your body knows the difference between natural sugar and processed sugar
CICO is scientifically sound. The quotes here show a lack of understanding of basic science.MaggieAustin15 wrote: »All this back lash and negative energy is not getting anywhere, why go against what someone says everyone is entitled to their own opinion. We are on here tying to stay healthy and record our food and exercise as well as encourage others and help them meet their goals. It is only my third day using this cite and all have seen is a bunch of adults acting like Junior High Kids in regards of going against others own opinions and virtues. Let people speak their mind on their own accords. I'm only 18 and have more dignity and respect then most adults that I know.
Backlash against incorrect information is the only logical reaction. Anything else is endorsing something that is wrong. People have a right to their own opinion but not to their own facts.
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »MaggieAustin15 wrote: »All this back lash and negative energy is not getting anywhere, why go against what someone says everyone is entitled to their own opinion. We are on here tying to stay healthy and record our food and exercise as well as encourage others and help them meet their goals. It is only my third day using this cite and all have seen is a bunch of adults acting like Junior High Kids in regards of going against others own opinions and virtues. Let people speak their mind on their own accords. I'm only 18 and have more dignity and respect then most adults that I know.
Preventing the spread of misinformation is important, especially for people who are new to weight loss and may be easily discouraged by all the arbitrary "rules" set forth by the various diet cults.
CICO is all that is required to lose weight. Everyone should start there.
How does CICO guarantee adherence?
I agree CICO is king but it is hardly the be all, end all. If it was just "eat less, move more" would end the issues of obesity everywhere.
There are real barriers to eating less. As important as CICO is, it is also important to address personal adherence to achieve long term success. Everyone should start with CICO and methods to achieve adherence.
How does any method guarantee adherence? At least with CICO it's as simple as it gets, for me it would seem to be the easiest of methods to try and adhere to.
Psychological issues around food will always be there regardless and need to be addressed alongside everything else. I have found it easier to address my emotional relationship with food by keeping the method simple.0 -
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I'm still waiting for the super humans that can make ingested energy disappear (black hole metabolism, ermagerd I ate over my caloric balance with vegan, keto etc. and lost weight), and the ones that can create energy from nothing (perpetual energy, ermagerd I ate a single processed food and gained 5lbs overnight).0
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Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »MaggieAustin15 wrote: »All this back lash and negative energy is not getting anywhere, why go against what someone says everyone is entitled to their own opinion. We are on here tying to stay healthy and record our food and exercise as well as encourage others and help them meet their goals. It is only my third day using this cite and all have seen is a bunch of adults acting like Junior High Kids in regards of going against others own opinions and virtues. Let people speak their mind on their own accords. I'm only 18 and have more dignity and respect then most adults that I know.
Preventing the spread of misinformation is important, especially for people who are new to weight loss and may be easily discouraged by all the arbitrary "rules" set forth by the various diet cults.
CICO is all that is required to lose weight. Everyone should start there.
How does CICO guarantee adherence?
I agree CICO is king but it is hardly the be all, end all. If it was just "eat less, move more" would end the issues of obesity everywhere.
There are real barriers to eating less. As important as CICO is, it is also important to address personal adherence to achieve long term success. Everyone should start with CICO and methods to achieve adherence.
While I see what you're saying, regardless of the methods that you adhere to, if you're losing weight, you're following CICO.
CICO is, and always will be, all that is needed to lose weight. I feel like there is value in knowing that if you choose to follow low carb, high carb, moderate carb, IIFYM, BeachBody, or the cabbage soup diet, if you are losing weight, you are losing weight because of CICO. Perhaps understanding that will steer some away from a silly fad or wasting money on snake oil, or keep someone from feeling like a failure because they enjoyed some greasy pizza, or had a few beers, or ate a doughnut.
Yes, I guarantee you that I know all that. And yet the name of the game is long term loss and adherence to that loss. CICO is an equation - you need more than just the math to assure adherence. It remains the lever of success but not without adding a few elements that make just as much sense.
Let's say it was "all that is needed". Accordingly I could stop eating and be successful in my weight loss? No, rate of loss, balancing moderation and deficit matter.
Weight loss success means achieving long term methods to avoid yoyoing, binging, etc. While I obviously adhere to CICO the majors people should focus include macros, satiety and a lifestyle that will be in line with the expectations one has on the results weight loss will achieve. CICO is the band leader, one still needs to address some of the details. People should consider macros and satiety. Often enough on the boards we see people that try to crash diet their way because "CICO" - clearly you don't support that?0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »MaggieAustin15 wrote: »All this back lash and negative energy is not getting anywhere, why go against what someone says everyone is entitled to their own opinion. We are on here tying to stay healthy and record our food and exercise as well as encourage others and help them meet their goals. It is only my third day using this cite and all have seen is a bunch of adults acting like Junior High Kids in regards of going against others own opinions and virtues. Let people speak their mind on their own accords. I'm only 18 and have more dignity and respect then most adults that I know.
Preventing the spread of misinformation is important, especially for people who are new to weight loss and may be easily discouraged by all the arbitrary "rules" set forth by the various diet cults.
CICO is all that is required to lose weight. Everyone should start there.
How does CICO guarantee adherence?
I agree CICO is king but it is hardly the be all, end all. If it was just "eat less, move more" would end the issues of obesity everywhere.
There are real barriers to eating less. As important as CICO is, it is also important to address personal adherence to achieve long term success. Everyone should start with CICO and methods to achieve adherence.
How does any method guarantee adherence? At least with CICO it's as simple as it gets, for me it would seem to be the easiest of methods to try and adhere to.
Psychological issues around food will always be there regardless and need to be addressed alongside everything else. I have found it easier to address my emotional relationship with food by keeping the method simple.
^^Nothing guarantees adherence, to anything. The stats show that over 80% of the people who lose weight, end up gaining it back, no matter what program they followed or how they lost the weight. Pretty significant statistics.
You can call it whatever you want, measure it however you want, but unless you take in less calories than you burn, you will not lose weight. Defining calories as healthy or unhealthy is pointless. Your body does not reject unhealthy calories and take in only healthy calories, it does not differentiate. You may want to define calories as what you perceive as healthy or unhealthy, and your definition of healthy or unhealthy is not necessarily the same as someone else's.
Semantics. Bottom line whatever label you want to put on it, eating less calories than you burn, CICO works.
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While I agree that CICO is a good starting place for many, we need to be cautious about saying that's it, that's all it takes. Yes, you can eat nothing but 1200 calories' worth of candy bars in a day and lose weight, but your overall health will suffer because of the lack of valuable nutrients. So yes, if you just want to lose weight, CICO is all you have to think about. But if you also want to be healthy, there's definitely more to consider.
And then there are those of us with health conditions that complicate things further. I have PCOS and can't eat just anything under my calories and expect to lose. Carbs, for me, have to be strictly limited because PCOS is rooted in insulin resistance.
Again, I wholeheartedly agree that CICO works for a majority of people, and it is an excellent place to start for many. But sometimes just spouting CICO to everyone could be doing them a disservice. If they're trying that and it's not working, I often see people tell them they must not be counting right. But they may be counting perfectly and there's something else going on with them that requires a different approach.0 -
kmbrooks15 wrote: »While I agree that CICO is a good starting place for many, we need to be cautious about saying that's it, that's all it takes. Yes, you can eat nothing but 1200 calories' worth of candy bars in a day and lose weight, but your overall health will suffer because of the lack of valuable nutrients. So yes, if you just want to lose weight, CICO is all you have to think about. But if you also want to be healthy, there's definitely more to consider.
And then there are those of us with health conditions that complicate things further. I have PCOS and can't eat just anything under my calories and expect to lose. Carbs, for me, have to be strictly limited because PCOS is rooted in insulin resistance.
Again, I wholeheartedly agree that CICO works for a majority of people, and it is an excellent place to start for many. But sometimes just spouting CICO to everyone could be doing them a disservice. If they're trying that and it's not working, I often see people tell them they must not be counting right. But they may be counting perfectly and there's something else going on with them that requires a different approach.
WHO THE HELL DOES THAT OR EVEN THINKS THAT'S A VALID IDEA?0 -
kmbrooks15 wrote: »While I agree that CICO is a good starting place for many, we need to be cautious about saying that's it, that's all it takes. Yes, you can eat nothing but 1200 calories' worth of candy bars in a day and lose weight, but your overall health will suffer because of the lack of valuable nutrients. So yes, if you just want to lose weight, CICO is all you have to think about. But if you also want to be healthy, there's definitely more to consider.
And then there are those of us with health conditions that complicate things further. I have PCOS and can't eat just anything under my calories and expect to lose. Carbs, for me, have to be strictly limited because PCOS is rooted in insulin resistance.
Again, I wholeheartedly agree that CICO works for a majority of people, and it is an excellent place to start for many. But sometimes just spouting CICO to everyone could be doing them a disservice. If they're trying that and it's not working, I often see people tell them they must not be counting right. But they may be counting perfectly and there's something else going on with them that requires a different approach.
NOBODY EVER SAYS IT IS A WISE COURSE OF ACTION OR THAT ONE COULD MEET ALL MACRO/MICRO NEEDS FROM EATING JUST CANDY!!!!!
These types of misrepresentations do nothing to further adult discourse.0 -
kmbrooks15 wrote: »While I agree that CICO is a good starting place for many, we need to be cautious about saying that's it, that's all it takes. Yes, you can eat nothing but 1200 calories' worth of candy bars in a day and lose weight, but your overall health will suffer because of the lack of valuable nutrients. So yes, if you just want to lose weight, CICO is all you have to think about. But if you also want to be healthy, there's definitely more to consider.
And then there are those of us with health conditions that complicate things further. I have PCOS and can't eat just anything under my calories and expect to lose. Carbs, for me, have to be strictly limited because PCOS is rooted in insulin resistance.
Again, I wholeheartedly agree that CICO works for a majority of people, and it is an excellent place to start for many. But sometimes just spouting CICO to everyone could be doing them a disservice. If they're trying that and it's not working, I often see people tell them they must not be counting right. But they may be counting perfectly and there's something else going on with them that requires a different approach.
I've seen some pretty terrible diaries (that is, diaries that make me question whether or not the owner is meeting their nutritional needs). In each instance, it's CICO advocates who are recommending changes to help the owner meet their nutritional needs (suggestions to eat more protein or try more fiber). What's more, these suggestions are virtually always more useful for meeting nutritional needs and actionable than prescriptions like "eliminate all sugar" or "don't eat processed food" (they are also more sustainable for many people, if that counts for anything).
If there was a journal where someone was eating only candy, I guarantee that someone would address that because you can't meet your nutritional needs on candy (at least, not that I know of). This idea that if you think weight loss is driven by CICO that means you're telling people to eat just candy . . . I don't know why it always, always, always comes up in threads like this. Because nobody has ever recommended that.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »MaggieAustin15 wrote: »All this back lash and negative energy is not getting anywhere, why go against what someone says everyone is entitled to their own opinion. We are on here tying to stay healthy and record our food and exercise as well as encourage others and help them meet their goals. It is only my third day using this cite and all have seen is a bunch of adults acting like Junior High Kids in regards of going against others own opinions and virtues. Let people speak their mind on their own accords. I'm only 18 and have more dignity and respect then most adults that I know.
Preventing the spread of misinformation is important, especially for people who are new to weight loss and may be easily discouraged by all the arbitrary "rules" set forth by the various diet cults.
CICO is all that is required to lose weight. Everyone should start there.
How does CICO guarantee adherence?
I agree CICO is king but it is hardly the be all, end all. If it was just "eat less, move more" would end the issues of obesity everywhere.
There are real barriers to eating less. As important as CICO is, it is also important to address personal adherence to achieve long term success. Everyone should start with CICO and methods to achieve adherence.
While I see what you're saying, regardless of the methods that you adhere to, if you're losing weight, you're following CICO.
CICO is, and always will be, all that is needed to lose weight. I feel like there is value in knowing that if you choose to follow low carb, high carb, moderate carb, IIFYM, BeachBody, or the cabbage soup diet, if you are losing weight, you are losing weight because of CICO. Perhaps understanding that will steer some away from a silly fad or wasting money on snake oil, or keep someone from feeling like a failure because they enjoyed some greasy pizza, or had a few beers, or ate a doughnut.
Yes, I guarantee you that I know all that. And yet the name of the game is long term loss and adherence to that loss. CICO is an equation - you need more than just the math to assure adherence. It remains the lever of success but not without adding a few elements that make just as much sense.
Let's say it was "all that is needed". Accordingly I could stop eating and be successful in my weight loss? No, rate of loss, balancing moderation and deficit matter.
Weight loss success means achieving long term methods to avoid yoyoing, binging, etc. While I obviously adhere to CICO the majors people should focus include macros, satiety and a lifestyle that will be in line with the expectations one has on the results weight loss will achieve. CICO is the band leader, one still needs to address some of the details. People should consider macros and satiety. Often enough on the boards we see people that try to crash diet their way because "CICO" - clearly you don't support that?
Ev, of course I know you knew all that - I respect your opinion highly and you bring a lot of knowledge and interesting discussion to these boards.
However, taking what I said about CICO and immediately jumping to "I could stop eating and be successful in my weight loss" is a bit of a strawman, no? That's in the same league as the people who accuse the IIFYM crowd of eating nothing but Pop Tarts and ice cream. I obviously do not support crash diets and VLCDs, nor do I support a diet of nothing but Pop Tarts and ice cream.
Of course satiety matters, and satiety is going to be accomplished in different ways by different people. But knowing that CICO is what causes weight loss is a great place for a beginner to start. People who are just starting out don't need to hear that "250 calories of nuts is better than 250 calories of doughnuts." They need to hear that there is nothing wrong with eating a doughnut if it fits within your goals.
There is a learning curve to losing weight and sticking to it, and figuring out what fills you up and what does not. I'm not disputing that. But the basics of CICO is the best place, in my opinion, to start.0 -
kmbrooks15 wrote: »Yes, you can eat nothing but 1200 calories' worth of candy bars in a day and lose weight, but your overall health will suffer because of the lack of valuable nutrients. So yes, if you
Ah, strawman, we meet again.0 -
Floridaman789 wrote: »Yes your body knows the difference between natural sugar and processed sugar
Does it?0 -
kmbrooks15 wrote: »Yes, you can eat nothing but 1200 calories' worth of candy bars in a day and lose weight, but your overall health will suffer because of the lack of valuable nutrients.
I call this the reductio ad donutum.0 -
The thing about taking this "calories are not equal" approach is that it misses the point. It's taken out of context to create these ridiculous soda-guzzling strawmen that survive solely on doughnuts and jawbreakers. It's a fact that a banana has a better nutritional profile than soda, but it's also a fact that calorie per calorie they make little to no difference in how the body stores fat. The context is usually the assumption that replacing certain substances with a more nutrient-dense alternative would lead to weight loss. This is simply not true. A tablespoon of sugar in a smoothie replaced by a pitted date does not cause a person to magically lose weight because the calorie content is the same, or in this case, even higher.
The assumption that acknowledging the calorie theory would lead to a poor diet is kind of patronizing. It assumes that people do not know what is nutritious and what is less so, and need someone to tell them that broccoli has more nutrients than soda and that it provides better volume per calorie. People who consume a nutrient-poor diet do so out of choice, not out of ignorance, and certainly not because they understand how food energy works.
I also feel like I need to tackle this from a different angle. It's not always black and white. Is broccoli always better than soda for a person who is trying to lose weight? Logically, it's higher in fiber and provides better satiety, so surely it must always be a better choice. Not the case. The countless threads of people who succumb to a favorite high calorie food then feel guilty prove otherwise. Weight loss is as much mental as it is physical. If that can of soda can help stave off dieting anxiety and make dieting more tolerable, then in that particular moment a can of soda is much more beneficial than sitting in the corner munching on broccoli entertaining woe-is-me thoughts.0 -
kmbrooks15 wrote: »Yes, you can eat nothing but 1200 calories' worth of candy bars in a day and lose weight, but your overall health will suffer because of the lack of valuable nutrients.
I call this the reductio ad donutum.
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If it weren't contrary to my goals.. I'd give an all candy diet a go... and then spend all of my money at the dentist and on vitamins. So... probably not gonna do that (not enough protein in smarties)0
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MaggieAustin15 wrote: »All this back lash and negative energy is not getting anywhere, why go against what someone says everyone is entitled to their own opinion. We are on here tying to stay healthy and record our food and exercise as well as encourage others and help them meet their goals. It is only my third day using this cite and all have seen is a bunch of adults acting like Junior High Kids in regards of going against others own opinions and virtues. Let people speak their mind on their own accords. I'm only 18 and have more dignity and respect then most adults that I know.
You're seeing "negative energy" here because people who are misinformed spread incorrect info as if it is truth, and that can be very hurtful to others who maybe come to the site looking for guidance. We all have had to wade through the woo, and if we can save others' time then there's no harm in that.0 -
Can't tell if serious?Floridaman789 wrote: »Yes your body knows the difference between natural sugar and processed sugar
If yes, proof please.
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I asked for proof as soon as he posted that. I guess he hasn't found any yet.0
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jofjltncb6 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »MaggieAustin15 wrote: »All this back lash and negative energy is not getting anywhere, why go against what someone says everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
That people are entitled to their own opinions (which just means what? people can think what they like?) certainly must not mean that assertions of fact (or alleged fact) should not go unchallenged if incorrect. If so, whatever happens to that idea of the marketplace of ideas, where good ideas win out and poor ideas die? For that matter, how do we ever discuss anything? Candidate A makes an assertion that another candidate disagrees with, and he or she merely says "well, of course that's a brilliant thought and I could never disagree with someone else's opinion?" A lawyer gets up to argue before the SC and the justices just say "oh, yes, absolutely right!" and the lawyer for the other side refuses to disagree.
What is the world coming to when being polite apparently means that you can never disagree with anything someone says, because they might feel bad.
Not to mention that I wouldn't want people just to nod and smile when I said something false or mistaken. I'd like to know or hear the opposing idea.
Back when I was in college this was typically assumed (and when people forgot it, they were argued with strongly). That was the adult way, not the idea that people's feelings were so sensitive they couldn't handle the notion that they were wrong.
MICROAGGRESSOR!
This whole line of thinking is so triggering. Get out of my safe space!
/s0 -
TheBeachgod wrote: »I asked for proof as soon as he posted that. I guess he hasn't found any yet.
Those claiming that an identical chemical is different based on source never provide proof.0 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »
Let's take this a step farther and talk health instead of just nutrition. I would rather be a healthy weight and a little below optimal on a few micros than be obese and eating optimal micros.
And I believe that it's actually difficult to have clinically deficient micros such that health is compromised in a way that is more detrimental than the health consequences of being obese regardless of the "quality" of food.
I'm quoting this because I think its been lost in the noise....
Being overweight is much more dangerous to your health than eating foods with a less than optimal nutritional profile.
In the western world, its really pretty difficult to eat your maintenance calories (or moderate deficit) and not get most of your nutritional needs met.0 -
It really is as simple as CICO. Look at Nutrisystem for instance. That's all processed food and people still lose weight using that meal plan. They tend to put it back on once they start having to eat normal food, but they lose weight nonetheless. So while you're obviously correct in that natural foods are always the better choice, there's ample proof that CICO is the Holy Grail of weight loss.0
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