How do you feel about veganism?
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tryin2die2self wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »tryin2die2self wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Many of the animals commonly eaten would die without humans some would not. Pigs have been known to escape and live in the wild. But I doubt a chicken would make it through the night.
Pigs are not only known to survive in the wild... they thrive. Feral pigs are a plague upon the land.
They have no natural enemies (as we killed them all off / we released them in the US to begin with), they do untold damage to crops and water infrastructure (levies and damns). I try to bag as many as I can. As an ardent hunter, I only kill what I plan to feed my family. This animal is the exception. I will forgo a deer kill to put down a feral swine. A female pig can have three litters every two years. Each one usually has 8 to 12 shoats (piglets). Shoats can have their first litter before their first birthday. If a female only had 8 shoats and only half of them are female. Do the math on the the exponential growth of just one pair in a decade.
The answer is more wild ham and bacon!
Yard chickens would survive. I doubt many of the hen house chickens would... but some would survive.
Chickens would not survive without man for long. Dogs, coyotes, wolves, foxes, raccoons, opossums, birds of prey, wild cats are just a few predators that would happily kill them without the protection of man.
Would they exist in today's numbers, heck no. However, many an abandoned farm has chickens that peck and scratch out an existence long after Farmer Brown has kicked the bucket. Seen it to many time with my own eyes to think otherwise. As long as they have trees to roost in and some place secluded to hide their nests, they can make it. How that will play out 100, 500 or 1000 years after man has left? Dunno. You very well could be right. Animals have been living/dying long before we put our hand in the cookie jar. Nothing gonna change that once we leave. Unless we leave this a scorched/snowball Earth (sigh).
Chickens as they are today did not exist before man. I'll have to take your word for these wild feral chickens as it goes against everything I know about them, except maybe for guineas. Those maybe tough enough to make it for a while. I don't think anyone is suggesting all animals would die without man.0 -
wstephens87 wrote: »tryin2die2self wrote: »wstephens87 wrote: »I'm a pescetarian. Meaning I am a vegetarian only I eat seafood as my only meat source (if you want to call it meat, that's debatable).
I learned something new today. So basically anything from the ocean is fair game? What about freshwater fish, clams, etc? I am not writing this to be snarky... I really want to know
Any seafood is fair game. Fish, shrimp, etc... I have tried full on vegetarianism but always fail. I feel healthier when I eat seafood and at least they don't pump it with hormones and torture it before it's up for consumption like they do chickens and cows etc.. It's just healthy to me. But to each their own. @snowflake954 I learned something new today as well. I didn't know this was Italian! Cool! @tryin2die2self I would say that's a matter of personal morals! LOL I would say most probably frown on eating dolphins and whales. And where in the heck would they eat a whale anyway?! Whaling is legal in the US? @janejellyroll that is true in lots of big cities. But not where I live. We don't even have a produce store within 20 miles for all I know of. @chunky_pinup lol
You don't need to live in a big city to have access to vegetables, fruits, beans, and grains. Someone living in a smaller area would have less access to special (and expensive) vegan products, but should still have access to plant foods that are affordable -- things like broccoli, pasta, bread, potatoes, lentils, kidney beans, black beans, olive oil, oats, apples, sweet potatoes, spinach, bananas, onions, wheat flour, rice, etc.
I've been a vegan in big cities and smaller towns and it's actually *easier* to stay on a budget in the smaller places because I'm less "tempted" by all the fancy pre-made stuff.
If you want to eat fish, you're going to eat fish. But to blame it on the cost of veganism doesn't make sense. There are vegans of all economic levels -- lots of people manage to eat plant-based on a budget.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Ooohhh...how did I know this thread would get all sanctimonious and preachy? Oh, I know...'cuz vegan.
All sorts of threads about dietary choices get that way here. It doesn't seem to be specific to threads about veganism.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Ooohhh...how did I know this thread would get all sanctimonious and preachy? Oh, I know...'cuz vegan.
All sorts of threads about dietary choices get that way here. It doesn't seem to be specific to threads about veganism.
This is true.0 -
I'm vegan and my boyfriend eats meat, eggs, dairy, and fish. We've coexisted pretty well over these last 9.5 years haha. He makes his food, I make mine, and we share whatever we both can eat. No biggie.
Lots of reasons people follow whichever diet they choose.
You do you 0 -
tryin2die2self wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »tryin2die2self wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »tryin2die2self wrote: »wstephens87 wrote: »I'm a pescetarian. Meaning I am a vegetarian only I eat seafood as my only meat source (if you want to call it meat, that's debatable).
I learned something new today. So basically anything from the ocean is fair game? What about freshwater fish, clams, etc? I am not writing this to be snarky... I really want to know
Yup.
So do they eat dauphins and whales?
That would be like saying "You eat meat, therefore you eat bear, cougar, beaver etc....". Some cultures eat whale---Japan. We eat ocean fish, fresh water fish, clams, mussels, shrimp, prawns, lobster, tuna, salmon, salt cod, the list goes on...... It's pretty much normal for us. I do alot of pasta with seafood.
I was not asking what "you" ate in particular (see my previous post). I did mean "they" as the group of pescetarian as a whole. Individuals pick and choose by their very nature. That said, I am a hunter. I have also been put in survival situations where one eats and can't be choosy about it. Also, my kin are from Arkansas. Growing up, who the heck knows what was in the stock pot
To be sure I have hunted and eaten a lot of things other would consider distasteful/abhorrent.
I am not looking to point fingers or poke holes in someone's diet. I was just interested. I currently live on the Gulf Coast and to be sure just about all the ocean fish you mention we eat. Raw oysters FTW.
Sorrrrrry.--- I thought you wanted to know about our habits. You, are telling us all about YOUR particular habits. I think I know a little about pescetarian eating after cooking for a pescetarian for 30 yrs. And obviously, everyone picks and chooses what they eat. Just like other diets.0 -
I love meat. But I hate that animals lose their lives so I can eat it. Or that cattle are bred to keep the mother lactating for milk and cheese production. I really, really hate it. But apparently not enough to stop eating steak, cheese, or bacon. One day I'll give it all up and feel much better about making humane food choices.0
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bclarke1990 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »I don't care how others eat I just don't like how a small minority of people (in every way of eating) feel they are morally superior to others and try to convince everyone to convert to their views
When one choice has such a drastic impact on the environment I hardly consider it a bad thing to try to convert people into a sustainable diet.
But if you want to think inside of a vacuum where choices only affect you that's fine :^)
Oh thanks for the judgement since you know me so well. I guess I should mention that I don't own a car and walk, bike and use public transit for transportation so should I get all preachy on everyone who drives a car about their negative impact on the environment? You have no idea what my eating habits are. Sure I am a omnivore but I don't eat much meat, in fact the only meat my body can handle is chicken, turkey and fish. I also live in poverty so I usually can not afford meat plus I do not buy a lot of stuff so I have a lot less waste (garbage to landfills) than the average person.0 -
I admire vegans. It would take a lot of fortitude, planning/work, strength of will and determination than I could possibly muster.
Animal lovers are always A ok in my book. And I'm not saying those of us that use animal products don't also love animals. Vegans just walk the walk
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Interesting perspective. In a parallel universe where the whole world becomes vegan, what happens to the animals? Having been domesticated for so long, would they survive in the wild? Would we blame ourselves for their near extinction? Would the omnivore minority be making sensationalized propaganda ridden documentaries depicting the now wild animals suffering with disease, starving and dying that start with a close-up shot of a waif young animal standing next to its dying mother?
Many of the animals commonly eaten would die without humans some would not. Pigs have been known to escape and live in the wild. But I doubt a chicken would make it through the night.
Have you ever been to the Hawaiian Islands?0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I admire vegans. It would take a lot of fortitude, planning/work, strength of will and determination than I could possibly muster.
Animal lovers are always A ok in my book. And I'm not saying those of us that use animal products don't also love animals. Vegans just walk the walk
In my experience it's really only difficult for the first couple of months (when you're learning how to read labels and such). After that, it's pretty much auto-pilot.
Vegan author Isa Chandra Moskowitz has a saying: "Your tastebuds follow your ethics." The things that seem really challenging to give up at first really aren't that big of a deal.
This is my experience: it may not be the experience of all vegans, but I don't consider my fortitude, planning, strength of will, or determination to be at all strong.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I admire vegans. It would take a lot of fortitude, planning/work, strength of will and determination than I could possibly muster.
Animal lovers are always A ok in my book. And I'm not saying those of us that use animal products don't also love animals. Vegans just walk the walk
In my experience it's really only difficult for the first couple of months (when you're learning how to read labels and such). After that, it's pretty much auto-pilot.
Vegan author Isa Chandra Moskowitz has a saying: "Your tastebuds follow your ethics." The things that seem really challenging to give up at first really aren't that big of a deal.
This is my experience: it may not be the experience of all vegans, but I don't consider my fortitude, planning, strength of will, or determination to be at all strong.
My experience has been this, too. For me, it took a lot more discipline to learn the habits of weighing/measuring/logging calories. I do try to be very careful about reading nutritional labels. When I'm unsure, I use an app that helps.0 -
justrollme wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I admire vegans. It would take a lot of fortitude, planning/work, strength of will and determination than I could possibly muster.
Animal lovers are always A ok in my book. And I'm not saying those of us that use animal products don't also love animals. Vegans just walk the walk
In my experience it's really only difficult for the first couple of months (when you're learning how to read labels and such). After that, it's pretty much auto-pilot.
Vegan author Isa Chandra Moskowitz has a saying: "Your tastebuds follow your ethics." The things that seem really challenging to give up at first really aren't that big of a deal.
This is my experience: it may not be the experience of all vegans, but I don't consider my fortitude, planning, strength of will, or determination to be at all strong.
My experience has been this, too. For me, it took a lot more discipline to learn the habits of weighing/measuring/logging calories. I do try to be very careful about reading nutritional labels. When I'm unsure, I use an app that helps.
Losing weight/maintaining weight takes a lot more effort (for me) than being vegan.
I mean, it's much easier to make vegan treats than it is *not* to make them! 0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »justrollme wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I admire vegans. It would take a lot of fortitude, planning/work, strength of will and determination than I could possibly muster.
Animal lovers are always A ok in my book. And I'm not saying those of us that use animal products don't also love animals. Vegans just walk the walk
In my experience it's really only difficult for the first couple of months (when you're learning how to read labels and such). After that, it's pretty much auto-pilot.
Vegan author Isa Chandra Moskowitz has a saying: "Your tastebuds follow your ethics." The things that seem really challenging to give up at first really aren't that big of a deal.
This is my experience: it may not be the experience of all vegans, but I don't consider my fortitude, planning, strength of will, or determination to be at all strong.
My experience has been this, too. For me, it took a lot more discipline to learn the habits of weighing/measuring/logging calories. I do try to be very careful about reading nutritional labels. When I'm unsure, I use an app that helps.
Losing weight/maintaining weight takes a lot more effort (for me) than being vegan.
I mean, it's much easier to make vegan treats than it is *not* to make them!
Ahaha! Yes, I know that all too well! I've made so many muffin variations and wow it'd be hard to choose a favorite. (Okay, maybe the apple pie flavor. Or the banana chocolate. Or the chocolate peanut butter. Wait, I'm forgetting the blueberry...)0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Losing weight/maintaining weight takes a lot more effort (for me) than being vegan.
I mean, it's much easier to make vegan treats than it is *not* to make them!
So true for me too ... love my home-made treats, especially the cakes. There's some great recipes out there, and then there's my fave shop-bought treats, maybe less healthy but so scrummy I can't quite give them up completely.
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Just out of interest for those Vegans on here posting about how bad it is to kill animals for meat? Is it only the big animals you care about?
Lots of farms will kill rabbits, deer, moles, mice etc to protect their food crops. Not all "traps" will be nice and quick deaths for the animals.
So unless you are someone who only eats what you grow personally, there is still going to be the death of animals to ensure that you get the food you want.
Personally, I don't care what other people like to eat.0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »I have nothing against it, but I like meat.
To each their own IMO.
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I don't care as long as the vegan isn't shoving his/her WOE in my face and continuously belittling me/being snide about how I'm contributing to animal abuse because I'm eating a sandwich. I don't do it to you, so don't do it to me.
I am a flexitarian, meaning i have meat (beef, pork, poultry) as a small % of my regular eating habits.0 -
justrollme wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I admire vegans. It would take a lot of fortitude, planning/work, strength of will and determination than I could possibly muster.
Animal lovers are always A ok in my book. And I'm not saying those of us that use animal products don't also love animals. Vegans just walk the walk
In my experience it's really only difficult for the first couple of months (when you're learning how to read labels and such). After that, it's pretty much auto-pilot.
Vegan author Isa Chandra Moskowitz has a saying: "Your tastebuds follow your ethics." The things that seem really challenging to give up at first really aren't that big of a deal.
This is my experience: it may not be the experience of all vegans, but I don't consider my fortitude, planning, strength of will, or determination to be at all strong.
My experience has been this, too. For me, it took a lot more discipline to learn the habits of weighing/measuring/logging calories. I do try to be very careful about reading nutritional labels. When I'm unsure, I use an app that helps.
Calorie control came much easier to me than I expected. I go vegan twice a year for 48 days for lent and the last days are usually a torturous countdown. I don't mind not being able to eat meat, but not being able to eat dairy takes a huge toll on me.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Interesting perspective. In a parallel universe where the whole world becomes vegan, what happens to the animals?
Farms would go bust, sell off the stock, if nobody wanted them they would be culled.
Like the campaigns against veal wrote the death warrant for male dairy calves, etc.0 -
You should ask yourself how many sport starts are vegan? Probably slightly less than 10
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Just out of interest for those Vegans on here posting about how bad it is to kill animals for meat? Is it only the big animals you care about?
Lots of farms will kill rabbits, deer, moles, mice etc to protect their food crops. Not all "traps" will be nice and quick deaths for the animals.
So unless you are someone who only eats what you grow personally, there is still going to be the death of animals to ensure that you get the food you want.
Personally, I don't care what other people like to eat.
Not to mention the insects, fungi, etc. that die via pesticides used in growing plants for food.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of interest for those Vegans on here posting about how bad it is to kill animals for meat? Is it only the big animals you care about?
Lots of farms will kill rabbits, deer, moles, mice etc to protect their food crops. Not all "traps" will be nice and quick deaths for the animals.
So unless you are someone who only eats what you grow personally, there is still going to be the death of animals to ensure that you get the food you want.
Personally, I don't care what other people like to eat.
Not to mention the insects, fungi, etc. that die via pesticides used in growing plants for food.
or of course if you are so worried about the plight of the animals, the amount of habitats which are destroyed so that farms can have the plots of land they require to grow the various crops.
It really is simple, for the human race to eat, animals will be killed. Either directly for the food or for the space to grow and protect the crops.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Just out of interest for those Vegans on here posting about how bad it is to kill animals for meat? Is it only the big animals you care about?
Lots of farms will kill rabbits, deer, moles, mice etc to protect their food crops. Not all "traps" will be nice and quick deaths for the animals.
So unless you are someone who only eats what you grow personally, there is still going to be the death of animals to ensure that you get the food you want.
Personally, I don't care what other people like to eat.
Not to mention the insects, fungi, etc. that die via pesticides used in growing plants for food.
or of course if you are so worried about the plight of the animals, the amount of habitats which are destroyed so that farms can have the plots of land they require to grow the various crops.
It really is simple, for the human race to eat, animals will be killed. Either directly for the food or for the space to grow and protect the crops.
Quite true. I guess it's easier to ignore when you aren't eating the flesh.0 -
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queenliz99 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Interesting perspective. In a parallel universe where the whole world becomes vegan, what happens to the animals? Having been domesticated for so long, would they survive in the wild? Would we blame ourselves for their near extinction? Would the omnivore minority be making sensationalized propaganda ridden documentaries depicting the now wild animals suffering with disease, starving and dying that start with a close-up shot of a waif young animal standing next to its dying mother?
Many of the animals commonly eaten would die without humans some would not. Pigs have been known to escape and live in the wild. But I doubt a chicken would make it through the night.
Have you ever been to the Hawaiian Islands?
I have not. I googled it though and that is pretty crazy. It appears some regions can and do support a wild chicken population.0 -
You should ask yourself how many sport starts are vegan? Probably slightly less than 1
Off the top of my head, Scott Jurek, one of the best ultramarathon runners in the world. Being vegan doesn't mean you can't have a totally balanced diet with all the required macros. It might take a bit more effort to get them all but it is very doable.0 -
You should ask yourself how many sport starts are vegan? Probably slightly less than 1
Google is your friend.
Prince Fielder, Venus Williams, Mac Danzig, Hannah Teeter, and Carl Lewis identify themselves as being on a plant-based diet. Scott Jurek, one of the superstars of ultra running, is a long-time vegan (including when he set his multiple records in the sport).0 -
You should ask yourself how many sport starts are vegan? Probably slightly less than 1
Off the top of my head, Scott Jurek, one of the best ultramarathon runners in the world. Being vegan doesn't mean you can't have a totally balanced diet with all the required macros. It might take a bit more effort to get them all but it is very doable.
Yeah, I'm not vegan (and have no plans to be a sports star) but there are definitely some examples. Rich Roll and Brendan Brazier are a couple of others.0 -
You should ask yourself how many sport starts are vegan? Probably slightly less than 1
Google 'vegan athlete'? Fiona Oakes' achievements are pretty amazing.
greatveganathletes.com/fiona-oakes-vegan-marathon-runner
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