How do you feel about veganism?
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It has its place. It's just not for me personally.0
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definitely supportive of people who choose it for themselves. i was a vegetarian for several years and vegan for about a year and a half in high school. if i'd done it for the right reasons it probably would have felt much better than it did. personally, i'm not at a place where i could safely be vegan again. restrictive diets and eating disorder recovery don't really mix (inb4 someone goes off on me about how they don't feel restricted so obviously no one ever would) and it would more than likely trigger a relapse for me. people don't like seem to like to take that into account.0
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When I meet a non-militant vegan, I'll feel better about them. Until then:
How many vegans does it take to change a light bulb?
A1: None. Light bulbs are "NOT VEGAN!! AHHHHHH!!!!"
A2: Two. One to get on their high horse and another to chastise them for oppressing the horse.
A3: 101. One-hundred to crowdsource a website dedicated to finding out which brands satisfy a strict set of current vegan criteria and one to order the light bulb from an obscure online store in an overseas country.0 -
willybilly30 wrote: »We do not need to eat animals in fact it is unhealthy
Animals suffer in factories there are many documentries showing the horrors
^^ That right there is the reason I don't particularly care for vegans. It's that sanctimonious "I don't eat meat therefore I am way better than you" attitude. I have had to sever ties with many friends who had that attitude. You don't eat meat or wear fur or leather for whatever ethical reasons? That's awesome but please don't lecture me and tell me how awful I am because I choose to eat meat and wear leather/fur products.0 -
I don't understand the vehement argument against the fact that animals suffer in factories. They do. There's nothing to argue.
I admire vegans. I am not one; I'm pescatarian & love this way of eating. I would not dream of preaching at someone or trying to convince them to change their eating habits.
I've seen more pushy low carbers on MFP than I have pushy vegans.0 -
Eat what you like. I hate almost all meat because it makes me feel sick to my stomach for hours after eating it, but fish doesn't do this so I eat it. I have had folks who judged me for not eating meat (thinking I was somehow morally superior to them or something--probably a backlash from the vegan/whole foods movement), but when I explain it as a food intolerance/dietary need people tend to be more understanding.0
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rosebarnalice wrote: »I feel I have canine teeth for a reason ...
And have you seen the massive canines on a mountain gorilla? Herbivores.
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To each their own. Eat whatever you like as long as it doesn't make you ill. As long as you don't make others feel bad for eating meat it's fine. I know some who are vegetarian or vegan for ethics reasons, some because they don't like the taste of meat and some for medical reasons.0
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liftsalltheweights wrote: »willybilly30 wrote: »We do not need to eat animals in fact it is unhealthy
Animals suffer in factories there are many documentries showing the horrors
^^ That right there is the reason I don't particularly care for vegans. It's that sanctimonious "I don't eat meat therefore I am way better than you" attitude. I have had to sever ties with many friends who had that attitude. You don't eat meat or wear fur or leather for whatever ethical reasons? That's awesome but please don't lecture me and tell me how awful I am because I choose to eat meat and wear leather/fur products.
The person you're responding to isn't even a vegan though. That answer would be why you don't care for that particular person, a person who is an lacto-ovo vegetarian.
I'm vegan and I've never said that to you or anyone else. Why wouldn't you care for me?0 -
TrickyDisco wrote: »rosebarnalice wrote: »I feel I have canine teeth for a reason ...
And have you seen the massive canines on a mountain gorilla? Herbivores.
If all you do for animals is not eat them, then you do really think you are doing much for them? How much impact do you think that actually has on factory farmed meats?0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »liftsalltheweights wrote: »willybilly30 wrote: »We do not need to eat animals in fact it is unhealthy
Animals suffer in factories there are many documentries showing the horrors
^^ That right there is the reason I don't particularly care for vegans. It's that sanctimonious "I don't eat meat therefore I am way better than you" attitude. I have had to sever ties with many friends who had that attitude. You don't eat meat or wear fur or leather for whatever ethical reasons? That's awesome but please don't lecture me and tell me how awful I am because I choose to eat meat and wear leather/fur products.
The person you're responding to isn't even a vegan though. That answer would be why you don't care for that particular person, a person who is an lacto-ovo vegetarian.
I'm vegan and I've never said that to you or anyone else. Why wouldn't you care for me?
Please point out where I said I wouldn't care for someone who DIDN'T make a sanctimonious I am holier than thou because I don't eat meat comment because I can't seem to find it. If you feel the need to lecture me on why my choice to eat meat is bad then yeah, I'm not going to particularly like you. If you respect my choice as I would respect yours then there's no reason why we can't get along.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TrickyDisco wrote: »rosebarnalice wrote: »I feel I have canine teeth for a reason ...
And have you seen the massive canines on a mountain gorilla? Herbivores.
If all you do for animals is not eat them, then you do really think you are doing much for them? How much impact do you think that actually has on factory farmed meats?
It's the same thing you're doing for anyone when you're refraining from harming them. If I don't assault someone walking by me on the street, I haven't "done much" for them except not hurt them. But that doesn't mean it would therefore be okay for me to assault someone.
Veganism isn't about doing a lot for someone else. It's about not harming someone unnecessarily. If a vegan chooses to do so, they can also take affirmative actions to help specific animals (donate money, volunteer at a sanctuary, rescue an animal, etc) just like a non-vegan who refrains from harming other humans can also take affirmative actions to do things for other humans.
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janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TrickyDisco wrote: »rosebarnalice wrote: »I feel I have canine teeth for a reason ...
And have you seen the massive canines on a mountain gorilla? Herbivores.
If all you do for animals is not eat them, then you do really think you are doing much for them? How much impact do you think that actually has on factory farmed meats?
It's the same thing you're doing for anyone when you're refraining from harming them. If I don't assault someone walking by me on the street, I haven't "done much" for them except not hurt them. But that doesn't mean it would therefore be okay for me to assault someone.
Veganism isn't about doing a lot for someone else. It's about not harming someone unnecessarily. If a vegan chooses to do so, they can also take affirmative actions to help specific animals (donate money, volunteer at a sanctuary, rescue an animal, etc) just like a non-vegan who refrains from harming other humans can also take affirmative actions to do things for other humans.
Or a non-vegan can take affirmative actions to help specific animals or to work toward change in the food industry.
My point is that not eating an animal doesn't necessarily mean you care about animals more than those that do.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »If all you do for animals is not eat them, then you do really think you are doing much for them? How much impact do you think that actually has on factory farmed meats?
As @janejellyroll says, there are plenty of other things vegans - or anyone really - can do to help animals and deciding not to eat them is as good a place to start as any. Also, if enough people stopped eating factory-farmed meat it would definitely have an impact.
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I tried it for about 6 months and I enjoyed the food I ate. However, I had a physical exam and found out I was pretty anemic and I was always super tired...even taking supplements. I went back to eating meat and my anemia resolved itself and wasn't tired anymore. It was a difficult lifestyle to maintain because my family didn't eat vegan and I was spending way more time in the kitchen and spending much more money than I really wanted. I think it's great to try though. I'm an advocate for trying different ways of eating to achieve health and fitness goals. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Now, if you're doing it for ethical reasons, that's a different cat.
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I'm cool with it.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TrickyDisco wrote: »rosebarnalice wrote: »I feel I have canine teeth for a reason ...
And have you seen the massive canines on a mountain gorilla? Herbivores.
If all you do for animals is not eat them, then you do really think you are doing much for them? How much impact do you think that actually has on factory farmed meats?
It's the same thing you're doing for anyone when you're refraining from harming them. If I don't assault someone walking by me on the street, I haven't "done much" for them except not hurt them. But that doesn't mean it would therefore be okay for me to assault someone.
Veganism isn't about doing a lot for someone else. It's about not harming someone unnecessarily. If a vegan chooses to do so, they can also take affirmative actions to help specific animals (donate money, volunteer at a sanctuary, rescue an animal, etc) just like a non-vegan who refrains from harming other humans can also take affirmative actions to do things for other humans.
Or a non-vegan can take affirmative actions to help specific animals or to work toward change in the food industry.
My point is that not eating an animal doesn't necessarily mean you care about animals more than those that do.
And the person who harms other people can take affirmative actions to help specific people or work towards change in how people are treated. This doesn't change the impact they've made on the people they've harmed. All of our lives are a balance of actions we take towards others.
I would say the person who refrains from harming an animals cares about that animal more than the person who decides to harm that animal.
I don't think this is a particularly "out there" conclusion.
If you choose to harm others, it impacts them. This can be taken into account when making conclusions as to how much you care about them.
The point isn't to call specific people out or do a "I care more" contest. The point is that the harm done to animals in agriculture is often swept under the rug, as if these animals matter less than other animals do.0 -
sndarling9 wrote: »I'm an eighteen year old girl who has been vegan for 2 months now. I love the lifestyle and will most likely be on it for the rest of my life. I don't feel deprived, my skin is clearer and I'm
Losing weight. How do you feel about veganism?
Good for you!!! I wish I was a vegan when I was your age. I didn't drop meat until my mid-40s. I feel so much better, and my doctor is amazed at how healthy I am. (My doctor whole-heartedly endorses a vegan diet.) Meat kind of grosses me out now, I guess because I'm not used to eating it. So, I don't even miss meat. And I have found a whole new group of foods to eat, for their nutritive value, and I don't feel deprived. I'm a tofu addict and a bean addict now.
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sndarling9 wrote: »I'm an eighteen year old girl who has been vegan for 2 months now. I love the lifestyle and will most likely be on it for the rest of my life. I don't feel deprived, my skin is clearer and I'm
Losing weight. How do you feel about veganism?
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I was vegan a long time ago for a few years and started eating meat again when I met my husband. I then fell into the trap of thinking I need to consume animal based products (meat, dairy, fish, eggs), because that's the American diet standard. Eat protein! After a lot of research on health & nutrition, various agencies and their lobbying practices, the CDC, the WHO, and diving deeper into how our food is killing us and "medicated America" and all of that, I decided to slowly transition back to veganism. I know that a person can achieve optimal nutrition and meet all requirements through plant based foods and I know that humans don't need animal based foods to survive and thrive. It has nothing much to do with the animals but more about my health and how I can avoid, heal and/or erase any health issues I may have the potential of facing in the future. I find that by eating a plant based diet my overall calories are much lower, I feel much better in terms of energy, inflammation or lack there-of, better sleep and just a general overall Zen like wellness and connection with the planet. Yeah... that most likely sounds corny but oh well. It's the truth for me. I think the vegetable should be the star of the dinner plate and everything else should be around that. Instead of ordering a chicken breast with rice and a veggie on the side. It should be ordering the vegetable with rice and a protein (or another vegetable) on the side I feel as if people can begin to heal themselves from the inside out if they start to replace animal based products with fruits and vegetables, beans, nuts, seeds.... 0
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TrickyDisco wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »If all you do for animals is not eat them, then you do really think you are doing much for them? How much impact do you think that actually has on factory farmed meats?
As @janejellyroll says, there are plenty of other things vegans - or anyone really - can do to help animals and deciding not to eat them is as good a place to start as any. Also, if enough people stopped eating factory-farmed meat it would definitely have an impact.
I quite agree. But, of course, one does not have to be vegan to stop eating factory farmed meat.0 -
vinegar_husbands wrote: »god forbid you question someone's actions
If you ask a question, expect an answer.
ETA: Might not be the answer you want.
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vinegar_husbands wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TrickyDisco wrote: »rosebarnalice wrote: »I feel I have canine teeth for a reason ...
And have you seen the massive canines on a mountain gorilla? Herbivores.
If all you do for animals is not eat them, then you do really think you are doing much for them? How much impact do you think that actually has on factory farmed meats?
god forbid you question someone's actions
Given that many of the responses in this thread are "I'm okay with veganism as long as vegans never question my actions," it's odd that *this* is where you choose to drop this comment.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TrickyDisco wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »If all you do for animals is not eat them, then you do really think you are doing much for them? How much impact do you think that actually has on factory farmed meats?
As @janejellyroll says, there are plenty of other things vegans - or anyone really - can do to help animals and deciding not to eat them is as good a place to start as any. Also, if enough people stopped eating factory-farmed meat it would definitely have an impact.
I quite agree. But, of course, one does not have to be vegan to stop eating factory farmed meat.
True, that's why I used the word 'people' and not the word 'vegans'.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TrickyDisco wrote: »rosebarnalice wrote: »I feel I have canine teeth for a reason ...
And have you seen the massive canines on a mountain gorilla? Herbivores.
If all you do for animals is not eat them, then you do really think you are doing much for them? How much impact do you think that actually has on factory farmed meats?
It's the same thing you're doing for anyone when you're refraining from harming them. If I don't assault someone walking by me on the street, I haven't "done much" for them except not hurt them. But that doesn't mean it would therefore be okay for me to assault someone.
Veganism isn't about doing a lot for someone else. It's about not harming someone unnecessarily. If a vegan chooses to do so, they can also take affirmative actions to help specific animals (donate money, volunteer at a sanctuary, rescue an animal, etc) just like a non-vegan who refrains from harming other humans can also take affirmative actions to do things for other humans.
Or a non-vegan can take affirmative actions to help specific animals or to work toward change in the food industry.
My point is that not eating an animal doesn't necessarily mean you care about animals more than those that do.
And the person who harms other people can take affirmative actions to help specific people or work towards change in how people are treated. This doesn't change the impact they've made on the people they've harmed. All of our lives are a balance of actions we take towards others.
I would say the person who refrains from harming an animals cares about that animal more than the person who decides to harm that animal.
I don't think this is a particularly "out there" conclusion.
If you choose to harm others, it impacts them. This can be taken into account when making conclusions as to how much you care about them.
The point isn't to call specific people out or do a "I care more" contest. The point is that the harm done to animals in agriculture is often swept under the rug, as if these animals matter less than other animals do.
It sure sounds like a "I care more" contest. But I understand that it's nearly impossible to be an ethical vegan without sounding a bit sanctimonious. You can't really say you don't do something because it's unethical or immoral and expect not to come off as saying you are better than those that do it.
But, I agree with your last sentence, which has little to do with being vegan or the point I was making.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TrickyDisco wrote: »rosebarnalice wrote: »I feel I have canine teeth for a reason ...
And have you seen the massive canines on a mountain gorilla? Herbivores.
If all you do for animals is not eat them, then you do really think you are doing much for them? How much impact do you think that actually has on factory farmed meats?
It's the same thing you're doing for anyone when you're refraining from harming them. If I don't assault someone walking by me on the street, I haven't "done much" for them except not hurt them. But that doesn't mean it would therefore be okay for me to assault someone.
Veganism isn't about doing a lot for someone else. It's about not harming someone unnecessarily. If a vegan chooses to do so, they can also take affirmative actions to help specific animals (donate money, volunteer at a sanctuary, rescue an animal, etc) just like a non-vegan who refrains from harming other humans can also take affirmative actions to do things for other humans.
Or a non-vegan can take affirmative actions to help specific animals or to work toward change in the food industry.
My point is that not eating an animal doesn't necessarily mean you care about animals more than those that do.
And the person who harms other people can take affirmative actions to help specific people or work towards change in how people are treated. This doesn't change the impact they've made on the people they've harmed. All of our lives are a balance of actions we take towards others.
I would say the person who refrains from harming an animals cares about that animal more than the person who decides to harm that animal.
I don't think this is a particularly "out there" conclusion.
If you choose to harm others, it impacts them. This can be taken into account when making conclusions as to how much you care about them.
The point isn't to call specific people out or do a "I care more" contest. The point is that the harm done to animals in agriculture is often swept under the rug, as if these animals matter less than other animals do.
It sure sounds like a "I care more" contest. But I understand that it's nearly impossible to be an ethical vegan without sounding a bit sanctimonious. You can't really say you don't do something because it's unethical or immoral and expect not to come off as saying you are better than those that do it.
But, I agree with your last sentence, which has little to do with being vegan or the point I was making.
How could I possibly know if I was "better" (if that is even a valid category) than someone else without knowing anything else about them? Maybe I don't eat animals, but they volunteer every weekend at a soup kitchen (which I don't)? Or maybe they have adopted six foster children or saved a stranger from a burning car (both of which I've never done). Or maybe they never gossip (which is one of my weaknesses). Maybe they never take a plastic bag at the grocery store even when they forget to bring their reusable bag. All of us are a collection of actions, the individuals that we help and the individuals that we harm. To look at a tiny portion of these and decide who is "better" is ridiculous.
Am I better than someone exactly like me that *does* choose to harm animals unnecessarily? Yes, I think I am. That's the way ethical judgments works -- if we avoid an action for ethical reasons, we do it because we do think it is the better thing to do.
But I have no way of knowing if I'm a better person than any random non-vegan. I don't spend any time wondering if I'm better than non-vegans. I would guess I'm better than some and worse than some. I'm better than a non-vegan version of myself. That's why I chose veganism. That's all I need to know.
I don't think that makes me any more sanctimonious than anyone with an ethical position on how to treat others -- either animals or humans.
I'm not sure how the position that the lives and suffering of animals in agriculture matter doesn't relate to veganism.
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I've accidentally torn into my tongue on multiple occasions. So, I would say it's useful for learning from past mistakes.TrickyDisco wrote: »rosebarnalice wrote: »I feel I have canine teeth for a reason ...
And have you seen the massive canines on a mountain gorilla? Herbivores.
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Nothing. I feel nothing about them.0
This discussion has been closed.
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