How do you feel about veganism?
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All my favorite shoes are leather. Can't go vegan.0
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vivmom2014 wrote: »
And for me it's my medication0 -
I used to be a vegetarian, and then I was a vegan. Now I'm an omnivore that eats vegetarians and vegans. I've got no issue with vegans, as long as they keep their eyes (and ethics) on their own plate.0
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janejellyroll wrote: »I'm not sure how the position that the lives and suffering of animals in agriculture matter doesn't relate to veganism.
Really? Because one doesn't have to be vegan to care about or alleviate that suffering.0 -
sndarling9 wrote: »I'm an eighteen year old girl who has been vegan for 2 months now. I love the lifestyle and will most likely be on it for the rest of my life. I don't feel deprived, my skin is clearer and I'm
Losing weight. How do you feel about veganism?
I am fine with it. One of my close friends in college became a vegan for spiritual reasons. If it involved the death or confinement of an animal she would have no part of it. Watched the whole change unfold. She is a now a social worker and a very, very giving person. All that said, she did not execute the dietary change very well. I was obese at the time, so it is not like I had any room to talk. She did not get enough calcium in her diet and her teeth really, REALLY suffered from it. To the point of having to put a fluoride tray in her mouth multiple times a week for over a year. She also had to take a ton of supplements to get her body systems back in order. As an middle aged woman she now suffers from fibromalyga and early onset of osteoporosis. Is all that related, no clue. I am not a doctor.
All that said, I encourage you to really look into what you need to make sure your nutrients are balanced. Just tossing meat over your shoulder and then eating a bunch of junk to fill up on is not an answer. No more than an average meat eater tossing veggies over their shoulder and eating just steak and potatoes. Anyone can have a bad diet or bad dietary habits, no matter the leaning. Garbage In, Garbage Out. Probably one of the reasons why a lot of us are here in the first place.
I wish you the best.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I'm not sure how the position that the lives and suffering of animals in agriculture matter doesn't relate to veganism.
Really? Because one doesn't have to be vegan to care about or alleviate that suffering.
Theoretically, I guess you're right. In reality, it's very difficult to source animal products that don't involve supporting practices like slaughter of "spent" animals, separation of mothers from their young, or the culling/slaughter of "unnecessary" males. I find it hard to reconcile "caring" with support of these practices. Others may use another definition and find it easier to reconcile.
As we've discussed in another thread, the actual act of consuming an egg or drinking a glass of milk doesn't contribute to animal suffering, but finding an egg or milk that doesn't support these processes can be very challenging.0 -
liftsalltheweights wrote: »willybilly30 wrote: »We do not need to eat animals in fact it is unhealthy
Animals suffer in factories there are many documentries showing the horrors
^^ That right there is the reason I don't particularly care for vegans. It's that sanctimonious "I don't eat meat therefore I am way better than you" attitude. I have had to sever ties with many friends who had that attitude. You don't eat meat or wear fur or leather for whatever ethical reasons? That's awesome but please don't lecture me and tell me how awful I am because I choose to eat meat and wear leather/fur products.
While I'm sure there are some people who have a sanctimonious attitude, don't you think the same can be said for any human, regardless of their ethical and/or dietary choices? So, maybe it isn't that you don't particularly care for vegans, so much as you don't particularly care for sanctimonious humans. I think it is worth mentioning here that sometimes a perceived sanctimonious attitude also isn't accurate. Sometimes people ask questions and just don't like the answers they hear, and then project their own emotions/attitudes and assumptions onto others.
Anecdotal example: Recently I was doing a thing with some other moms at my son's school, and one of the other moms asked me for the recipe of some muffins I'd brought. I wrote it down for her, she looked at it, and said, "Did you really not use eggs?" I replied that I really hadn't, and she asked if I had an allergy. I said no, not an allergy and that I'm vegan. It is true that I could have just said that I don't eat eggs, but I am not embarrassed about being vegan, just as I am not proud of it. (My choice to be vegan makes me happy inside, it is really that simple.) Another Mom, not in a cute way, but in a very snarky way, then cracked the overused joke, "Ugh, vegans. How do you know if someone is vegan? They'll tell you!"
Since it was so snarky, I said, "I take it you're not a fan." Her reply was that she doesn't need to be told that her cheeseburgers had to be killed for her pleasure. Well, I'd never said that to her. That isn't something I'd say to someone. So I asked her if anyone actually ever said such a thing to her. She begrudgingly said, "Well, no. But I know you're thinking it."
There was no sanctimonious militant vegan meme at work. Speaking of that...my point is that:Wetcoaster wrote: »
You can replace the picture of leafy greens with a cheeseburger or a snickerdoodle or a snozzberry and the words on that meme can still apply.
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TrickyDisco wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »If all you do for animals is not eat them, then you do really think you are doing much for them? How much impact do you think that actually has on factory farmed meats?
As @janejellyroll says, there are plenty of other things vegans - or anyone really - can do to help animals and deciding not to eat them is as good a place to start as any. Also, if enough people stopped eating factory-farmed meat it would definitely have an impact.
You vote for change with your money every time you buy a product. Enough people buy a certain way and the industry will change. Prime example, the "organic food" movement. I personally vote for ethical animal husbandry and the ethical treatment of the land. Neither need to be raped to yield a good product.0 -
justrollme wrote: »liftsalltheweights wrote: »willybilly30 wrote: »We do not need to eat animals in fact it is unhealthy
Animals suffer in factories there are many documentries showing the horrors
^^ That right there is the reason I don't particularly care for vegans. It's that sanctimonious "I don't eat meat therefore I am way better than you" attitude. I have had to sever ties with many friends who had that attitude. You don't eat meat or wear fur or leather for whatever ethical reasons? That's awesome but please don't lecture me and tell me how awful I am because I choose to eat meat and wear leather/fur products.
While I'm sure there are some people who have a sanctimonious attitude, don't you think the same can be said for any human, regardless of their ethical and/or dietary choices? So, maybe it isn't that you don't particularly care for vegans, so much as you don't particularly care for sanctimonious humans. I think it is worth mentioning here that sometimes a perceived sanctimonious attitude also isn't accurate. Sometimes people ask questions and just don't like the answers they hear, and then project their own emotions/attitudes and assumptions onto others.
Anecdotal example: Recently I was doing a thing with some other moms at my son's school, and one of the other moms asked me for the recipe of some muffins I'd brought. I wrote it down for her, she looked at it, and said, "Did you really not use eggs?" I replied that I really hadn't, and she asked if I had an allergy. I said no, not an allergy and that I'm vegan. It is true that I could have just said that I don't eat eggs, but I am not embarrassed about being vegan, just as I am not proud of it. (My choice to be vegan makes me happy inside, it is really that simple.) Another Mom, not in a cute way, but in a very snarky way, then cracked the overused joke, "Ugh, vegans. How do you know if someone is vegan? They'll tell you!"
Since it was so snarky, I said, "I take it you're not a fan." Her reply was that she doesn't need to be told that her cheeseburgers had to be killed for her pleasure. Well, I'd never said that to her. That isn't something I'd say to someone. So I asked her if anyone actually ever said such a thing to her. She begrudgingly said, "Well, no. But I know you're thinking it." There was no sanctimonious militant vegan meme at work. Speaking of that...my point is that:Wetcoaster wrote: »
You can replace the picture of leafy greens with a cheeseburger or a snickerdoodle or a snozzberry and the words on that meme can still apply.
Yeah, I realize some vegans say things that are unfortunate. But so many times, it seems that people are more worried about what they *think* vegans are thinking about them than what vegans actually say.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I'm not sure how the position that the lives and suffering of animals in agriculture matter doesn't relate to veganism.
Really? Because one doesn't have to be vegan to care about or alleviate that suffering.
Theoretically, I guess you're right. In reality, it's very difficult to source animal products that don't involve supporting practices like slaughter of "spent" animals, separation of mothers from their young, or the culling/slaughter of "unnecessary" males. I find it hard to reconcile "caring" with support of these practices. Others may use another definition and find it easier to reconcile.
As we've discussed in another thread, the actual act of consuming an egg or drinking a glass of milk doesn't contribute to animal suffering, but finding an egg or milk that doesn't support these processes can be very challenging.
Agreed. It is expensive and challenging, but can also be rewarding.0 -
For me, especially where I live, veganism is way to expensive. If you want to pay $15 for a small frozen vegan pizza, sure it's a healthy option vs. regular pizza. But there aren't many options here where I live in the vegan world and most of them are over priced. I'm a pescetarian. Meaning I am a vegetarian only I eat seafood as my only meat source (if you want to call it meat, that's debatable). Doing so I still have troubles getting enough protein but it's pretty healthy and the fish contains great omega nutrients. I feel bad about eating fish, but I feel like it's more humane than the meat industry and it's healthier than the other meats as well. I've been on this diet since I was about 11 or 12. I am now 28. I used to call it vegetarianism only I'd say but I'm not as strict. I eat seafood still. But they finally came up with a name for it. I hate that it sounds like pest. But it's because Pisces means fish...or something like that...for me Pescetarianism is the way to go. But to each their own!0
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TrueTavistockToad wrote: »I have nothing against it, but I like meat.
To each their own IMO.
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wstephens87 wrote: »I'm a pescetarian. Meaning I am a vegetarian only I eat seafood as my only meat source (if you want to call it meat, that's debatable).
I learned something new today. So basically anything from the ocean is fair game? What about freshwater fish, clams, etc? I am not writing this to be snarky... I really want to know
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wstephens87 wrote: »For me, especially where I live, veganism is way to expensive. If you want to pay $15 for a small frozen vegan pizza, sure it's a healthy option vs. regular pizza. But there aren't many options here where I live in the vegan world and most of them are over priced. I'm a pescetarian. Meaning I am a vegetarian only I eat seafood as my only meat source (if you want to call it meat, that's debatable). Doing so I still have troubles getting enough protein but it's pretty healthy and the fish contains great omega nutrients. I feel bad about eating fish, but I feel like it's more humane than the meat industry and it's healthier than the other meats as well. I've been on this diet since I was about 11 or 12. I am now 28. I used to call it vegetarianism only I'd say but I'm not as strict. I eat seafood still. But they finally came up with a name for it. I hate that it sounds like pest. But it's because Pisces means fish...or something like that...for me Pescetarianism is the way to go. But to each their own!
What makes a frozen vegan pizza healthier than any other frozen pizza?0 -
tryin2die2self wrote: »wstephens87 wrote: »I'm a pescetarian. Meaning I am a vegetarian only I eat seafood as my only meat source (if you want to call it meat, that's debatable).
I learned something new today. So basically anything from the ocean is fair game? What about freshwater fish, clams, etc? I am not writing this to be snarky... I really want to know
Yes, a pescatarian diet can include any fish or seafood.0 -
wstephens87 wrote: »For me, especially where I live, veganism is way to expensive. If you want to pay $15 for a small frozen vegan pizza, sure it's a healthy option vs. regular pizza. But there aren't many options here where I live in the vegan world and most of them are over priced. I'm a pescetarian. Meaning I am a vegetarian only I eat seafood as my only meat source (if you want to call it meat, that's debatable). Doing so I still have troubles getting enough protein but it's pretty healthy and the fish contains great omega nutrients. I feel bad about eating fish, but I feel like it's more humane than the meat industry and it's healthier than the other meats as well. I've been on this diet since I was about 11 or 12. I am now 28. I used to call it vegetarianism only I'd say but I'm not as strict. I eat seafood still. But they finally came up with a name for it. I hate that it sounds like pest. But it's because Pisces means fish...or something like that...for me Pescetarianism is the way to go. But to each their own!
Pesce means fish in Italian. My husband is pescetarian. He is 61, and has been this way since he was a child. He is thin and his blood tests are astounding. His blood pressure is also low. He is in the best of health.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I'm not sure how the position that the lives and suffering of animals in agriculture matter doesn't relate to veganism.
Really? Because one doesn't have to be vegan to care about or alleviate that suffering.
Theoretically, I guess you're right. In reality, it's very difficult to source animal products that don't involve supporting practices like slaughter of "spent" animals, separation of mothers from their young, or the culling/slaughter of "unnecessary" males. I find it hard to reconcile "caring" with support of these practices. Others may use another definition and find it easier to reconcile.
As we've discussed in another thread, the actual act of consuming an egg or drinking a glass of milk doesn't contribute to animal suffering, but finding an egg or milk that doesn't support these processes can be very challenging.
Agreed. It is expensive and challenging, but can also be rewarding.
The cost and the lack of access (there is no place where I live that offers eggs and milk that are free from some type of slaughter) make veganism a much more practical option for people who are unwilling to support these practices.0 -
tryin2die2self wrote: »wstephens87 wrote: »I'm a pescetarian. Meaning I am a vegetarian only I eat seafood as my only meat source (if you want to call it meat, that's debatable).
I learned something new today. So basically anything from the ocean is fair game? What about freshwater fish, clams, etc? I am not writing this to be snarky... I really want to know
Yup.0 -
wstephens87 wrote: »For me, especially where I live, veganism is way to expensive. If you want to pay $15 for a small frozen vegan pizza, sure it's a healthy option vs. regular pizza. But there aren't many options here where I live in the vegan world and most of them are over priced. I'm a pescetarian. Meaning I am a vegetarian only I eat seafood as my only meat source (if you want to call it meat, that's debatable). Doing so I still have troubles getting enough protein but it's pretty healthy and the fish contains great omega nutrients. I feel bad about eating fish, but I feel like it's more humane than the meat industry and it's healthier than the other meats as well. I've been on this diet since I was about 11 or 12. I am now 28. I used to call it vegetarianism only I'd say but I'm not as strict. I eat seafood still. But they finally came up with a name for it. I hate that it sounds like pest. But it's because Pisces means fish...or something like that...for me Pescetarianism is the way to go. But to each their own!
But you don't have to have a small frozen vegan pizza. You can just have a regular pizza (most places have a vegan crust and sauce option), hold the cheese, add vegetables.
Vegans don't have to eat special "vegan" foods.
I spend about $25 a week for groceries unless I decide to buy something special. I buy 99% of my food at a regular grocery store. It isn't "vegan" stuff. It's just food that doesn't have animal products.
Vegans, just like non-vegans, can choose to buy fancy, expensive, pre-made foods. Or they can choose not to.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I'm not sure how the position that the lives and suffering of animals in agriculture matter doesn't relate to veganism.
Really? Because one doesn't have to be vegan to care about or alleviate that suffering.
Theoretically, I guess you're right. In reality, it's very difficult to source animal products that don't involve supporting practices like slaughter of "spent" animals, separation of mothers from their young, or the culling/slaughter of "unnecessary" males. I find it hard to reconcile "caring" with support of these practices. Others may use another definition and find it easier to reconcile.
As we've discussed in another thread, the actual act of consuming an egg or drinking a glass of milk doesn't contribute to animal suffering, but finding an egg or milk that doesn't support these processes can be very challenging.
Agreed. It is expensive and challenging, but can also be rewarding.
The cost and the lack of access (there is no place where I live that offers eggs and milk that are free from some type of slaughter) make veganism a much more practical option for people who are unwilling to support these practices.
We must all seek reward in whatever manner we see fit.0 -
snowflake954 wrote: »tryin2die2self wrote: »wstephens87 wrote: »I'm a pescetarian. Meaning I am a vegetarian only I eat seafood as my only meat source (if you want to call it meat, that's debatable).
I learned something new today. So basically anything from the ocean is fair game? What about freshwater fish, clams, etc? I am not writing this to be snarky... I really want to know
Yup.
So do they eat dauphins and whales?0 -
The Book of Daniel says it's better than Atkins.0
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tryin2die2self wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »tryin2die2self wrote: »wstephens87 wrote: »I'm a pescetarian. Meaning I am a vegetarian only I eat seafood as my only meat source (if you want to call it meat, that's debatable).
I learned something new today. So basically anything from the ocean is fair game? What about freshwater fish, clams, etc? I am not writing this to be snarky... I really want to know
Yup.
So do they eat dauphins and whales?
I think it would depend on one's rationale for adopting pescetarianism.
If it is about thinking fish are somehow different from other animals (that they don't suffer as much as other animals do, for example), you would probably avoid dolphins and whales because they aren't exactly fish -- they're mammals who live in the water.
If it's about just wanting to eat things that live in the sea and not on land, sure.0 -
tryin2die2self wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »tryin2die2self wrote: »wstephens87 wrote: »I'm a pescetarian. Meaning I am a vegetarian only I eat seafood as my only meat source (if you want to call it meat, that's debatable).
I learned something new today. So basically anything from the ocean is fair game? What about freshwater fish, clams, etc? I am not writing this to be snarky... I really want to know
Yup.
So do they eat dauphins and whales?
That would be like saying "You eat meat, therefore you eat bear, cougar, beaver etc....". Some cultures eat whale---Japan. We eat ocean fish, fresh water fish, clams, mussels, shrimp, prawns, lobster, tuna, salmon, salt cod, the list goes on...... It's pretty much normal for us. I do alot of pasta with seafood.0 -
tryin2die2self wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »tryin2die2self wrote: »wstephens87 wrote: »I'm a pescetarian. Meaning I am a vegetarian only I eat seafood as my only meat source (if you want to call it meat, that's debatable).
I learned something new today. So basically anything from the ocean is fair game? What about freshwater fish, clams, etc? I am not writing this to be snarky... I really want to know
Yup.
So do they eat dauphins and whales?
Isn't that a bit like asking "Do they eat beetroot?" of a vegan? It's not as if every pescatarian eats the exact same diet.0 -
snowflake954 wrote: »That would be like saying "You eat meat, therefore you eat bear, cougar, beaver etc....". .
I'm vegan...but I've dabbled in beaver eating...
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I'm doing my part to help maintain the healthy levels of cattle in this country......0
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chunky_pinup wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »That would be like saying "You eat meat, therefore you eat bear, cougar, beaver etc....". .
I'm vegan...but I've dabbled in beaver eating...
Careful when you "dabble" in bear eating.
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I like the ideas behind it, but it doesn't work well for everyone. You've got to get a lot of info before starting it. I tried veganism while in college and I didn't do my research before jumping into it. I dropped weight really quickly, but I wasn't getting the nutrients and calories I needed for all of the running I did, and eventually was diagnosed with an eating disorder. Just make sure you're being safe about it and try to speak with a nutritionist before you continue limiting your food intake.0
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