For Some of Us there ARE Bad Foods
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endlessfall16 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
For you.
For me, not so much. It once was a challenge, but instead of demonizing the food...i looked at my own behavior, worked on it and changed it. Now, I can do it without much of a challenge at all.
Doesn't hurt to demonize the food as a way to change your own behavior. Our process is just different. LOL.
Best of luck with that.
No luck. It's just science.
Repeating something enough time will increase its efficiency. It's called practice, muscle memory. We do that all the time.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
For you.
For me, not so much. It once was a challenge, but instead of demonizing the food...i looked at my own behavior, worked on it and changed it. Now, I can do it without much of a challenge at all.
Doesn't hurt to demonize the food as a way to change your own behavior. Our process is just different. LOL.
*tackles Nathan Fillion*
I think telling yourself a food is evil is one thing (if it helps and you're not doing harm to yourself by telling yourself that). I think believing it is a whole other ball of wax.
<----eats ALL the evil foods and then some!
Yeah I just like telling as an exercise for the tongue while not really believing.... [sarcasm]
Do tell, what harm is there in believing that I need to limit or avoid evil lard ladden pork in order to have a chance with my cardio?0 -
I haven't eaten Cheetos for a year (because I didn't want them) but this thread makes them sound kind of good.
What I think the problem with calling foods bad is people don't do it with just low nutrition chips or cookies and they don't say "this is what works best for me". They say if you want to lose weight or be healthy you can't eat this food or this entire food group. They even do it with very nutritious foods. There are posts on this forum calling meat and potatoes unhealthy/bad foods for no reason other than they were brainwashed to think that. People come here believing they absolutely can't eat a hamburger, fruit, rice, pasta, cereal or bread because someone said it was bad food. They don't have an allergy or medical condition and they are making things unnecessarily hard on themselves to the point where they fear eating out with friends. I see great harm done to people by vaguely labeling foods bad or unhealthy.0 -
I am going to make one more attempt in what is arguably the most dysfunctional message string with which I have ever been involved in social media.
1) I would never suggest anyone ought to tell people there ARE bad foods either. Rather, I think that everyone needs to understand what works for them. Many people can succeed just by right-sizing their portions. Some people may have to eliminate some things to succeed. Everyone is different-the one point almost NO ONE seems to notice I made in the original post.
2) I never shame someone for what they eat. I totally agree that a moderate amount of most anything can be integrated into a healthy diet. I would not buy chips for my own children if I did not believe this to be true.
3) I have been largely successful in my journey by eliminating a few things. I personally don't miss them. If I really did, I might try other strategies to integrate them. But I am happy to give up the salty snacks and retain such things as pizza, pasta etc. Part of making this all work is to make trade-offs.
4) Just as telling people there are bad foods can be unhelpful to some people; blaming their so-called lack of control can be even more damaging. Guilt does not help with this battle.
We all need to find out what works for us. There are individual differences. Having done some research on how "junk food" companies develop and market their products, I will personally always retain a skepticism about them. I have no need to proselytize others.
Best Regards......0 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
For you.
For me, not so much. It once was a challenge, but instead of demonizing the food...i looked at my own behavior, worked on it and changed it. Now, I can do it without much of a challenge at all.
Doesn't hurt to demonize the food as a way to change your own behavior. Our process is just different. LOL.
Best of luck with that.
No luck. It's just science.
Repeating something enough time will increase its efficiency. It's called practice, muscle memory. We do that all the time.
I don't need your advice, especially in an inaccurate shame based dieting program, but thanks.
Who said I was giving advice . I just refuted your point.0 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
For you.
For me, not so much. It once was a challenge, but instead of demonizing the food...i looked at my own behavior, worked on it and changed it. Now, I can do it without much of a challenge at all.
Doesn't hurt to demonize the food as a way to change your own behavior. Our process is just different. LOL.
*tackles Nathan Fillion*
I think telling yourself a food is evil is one thing (if it helps and you're not doing harm to yourself by telling yourself that). I think believing it is a whole other ball of wax.
<----eats ALL the evil foods and then some!
Yeah I just like telling as an exercise for the tongue while not really believing.... [sarcasm]
Do tell, what harm is there in believing that I need to limit or avoid evil lard ladden pork in order to have a chance with my cardio?
What harm it would do to you? I don't know. Very possibly none. What harm it would do to me? I have a rather lengthy post above getting into that.
Since your first statement in the above quote string didn't specify that you were talking about yourself and used "you" (whether personally directed at shell or as a more general pronoun, idk) you either haven't read some of the posts in this thread or just don't care.0 -
missblondi2u wrote: »I just want to say that I do not support this type of Cheeto-shaming. Cheetos are a gift from the heavens.
Truthfully, I'd go for the Doritos more. Or Pringles. But every year my co worker and I toast our dead coworker with a bag of Cheetos and a small container of Pringles so I just have to suck it up.
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endlessfall16 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
For you.
For me, not so much. It once was a challenge, but instead of demonizing the food...i looked at my own behavior, worked on it and changed it. Now, I can do it without much of a challenge at all.
Doesn't hurt to demonize the food as a way to change your own behavior. Our process is just different. LOL.
*tackles Nathan Fillion*
I think telling yourself a food is evil is one thing (if it helps and you're not doing harm to yourself by telling yourself that). I think believing it is a whole other ball of wax.
<----eats ALL the evil foods and then some!
Yeah I just like telling as an exercise for the tongue while not really believing.... [sarcasm]
Do tell, what harm is there in believing that I need to limit or avoid evil lard ladden pork in order to have a chance with my cardio?
I think the important question here is how Nathan Fillion would feel if I actually *did* tackle him.0 -
My understanding is that the whole no bad food thing is about weight loss and only weight loss.
As in 1000 calories of deep fried mars bars is the same as 1000 calories of assorted vegetables, for weight loss.
I don't think I have ever seen someone say there are no bad foods, eat all the deep fried mars bars you like, you will fill all your macros perfectly and live in perfect health.
The no bad food argument is just a counter to people's claims that if they eat McDonald's they gain weight, but if they eat carrots they lose, so macca's is bad. But for weight loss they are equal if your eating the same calories of each.
Nutritionally and Heath wise they are clearly different.
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3) I have been largely successful in my journey by eliminating a few things. I personally don't miss them. If I really did, I might try other strategies to integrate them. But I am happy to give up the salty snacks and retain such things as pizza, pasta etc. Part of making this all work is to make trade-offs.
I don't consider not eating foods I don't particularly want or miss to be giving them up. I consider it making a sensible choice about what to eat. I never really ate chips or similar things, and saw no reason to start just because I was losing weight (obviously). Other things that I did eat rather mindlessly I thought about and decided I didn't like them enough to eat them if I was going to limit what I ate. So of course, I think everyone does this.
I'm just not sure what it has to do with bad foods (or about packaged food being any harder to resist than other foods).
If it helps you to call certain foods "bad" in your own life, I don't care, and if you say "I like to call foods good and bad because it helps me," I won't argue--your thing (unless you seem to be struggling and feeling shame and so on, in which case I might engage, but you don't seem to fall into that category). If someone asserts that a food simply IS bad, though, I will disagree, since as I explained above to me "bad" means "no one should eat it as it is inherently bad for your health" and the vast majority of foods that get discussed in this way are foods that can be part of an overall healthful, balanced diet.
Similarly, I get that Need2 sees no conflict between considering foods "bad" and including them in a diet she considers healthful and balanced. She and I simply understand "bad food" to mean different things and so have different reactions to its use. Her way works for her, but not everyone.0 -
My understanding is that the whole no bad food thing is about weight loss and only weight loss.
As in 1000 calories of deep fried mars bars is the same as 1000 calories of assorted vegetables, for weight loss.
I don't think I have ever seen someone say there are no bad foods, eat all the deep fried mars bars you like, you will fill all your macros perfectly and live in perfect health.
It's about context. They'd say you can include even a deep fried Mars bar in your diet every once in a while and still have an overall healthful, balanced diet that is calorie-appropriate and meets your goals. Occasionally eating a deep fried Mars bar doesn't harm your health and isn't something to feel bad or shameful about.
Of course, not being Scottish I have not tried a deep-fried Mars bar and feel deeply skeptical about it being worth eating.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
For you.
For me, not so much. It once was a challenge, but instead of demonizing the food...i looked at my own behavior, worked on it and changed it. Now, I can do it without much of a challenge at all.
Doesn't hurt to demonize the food as a way to change your own behavior. Our process is just different. LOL.
*tackles Nathan Fillion*
I think telling yourself a food is evil is one thing (if it helps and you're not doing harm to yourself by telling yourself that). I think believing it is a whole other ball of wax.
<----eats ALL the evil foods and then some!
Yeah I just like telling as an exercise for the tongue while not really believing.... [sarcasm]
Do tell, what harm is there in believing that I need to limit or avoid evil lard ladden pork in order to have a chance with my cardio?
What harm it would do to you? I don't know. Very possibly none. What harm it would do to me? I have a rather lengthy post above getting into that.
Since your first statement in the above quote string didn't specify that you were talking about yourself and used "you" (whether personally directed at shell or as a more general pronoun, idk) you either haven't read some of the posts in this thread or just don't care.
I also think she took what I said way too personally.
All I meant was we tell ourselves what we need to hear to succeed in weight loss. We also do what we have to. Now, that doesn't work well for me and the donuts one of clients looooooves to bring us when he just shows up in our office but if you tell yourself that piece of cheesecake was baked with extra protein in the form of bugs and believe it enough to not eat said piece of cheesecake (because you're lactose intolerant and not because the piece of cheesecake is like 9000 calories and you have 10 left for the day) then more power to you.
But if you tell yourself that snickers bar has no nutritional value whatsoever so you won't eat and fight to the death online to prove it.....
Damn, I wonder if I have some fun sized snickers at home. 0 -
I would say more nutritious foods help us to met daily needs easier than foods that are less nutritious. That doesn't mean one can't meet their nutritional (macro and micro) needs while eating "bad food". Once the needs are met, then health shouldn't be an issue if one isn't over/underweight.
Thanks for pointing this out! Once our nutritional needs are met, most of us actually have several hundred calories / day that are "Free" as in they can be anything we want them to be. This is particularly true for people who have paid careful attention to getting vitamins, minerals, fiber, etc. through nutritionally "dense" foods. Even when you're overweight, if you're meeting your nutritional needs and your diet plan has extra calories, there should be no moral weight applied at all to how you fill out your diet.
Also, @diannethegeek pointed out something I've observed to be very true. There are a lot of people on these forums who exhibit quite disordered thinking about food. And my experience is that sub-clinical disordered eating/exercising is fairly frequent in the general population (particularly among teenage and early 20's women).
The psychology community has acknowledged another disorder, Orthorexia Nervosa, which is an obsession with "healthy" living. For people with the tendency to think this way, or engage in obsessive behavior, its a very fine line between casually calling a food "bad" and enabling a destructive lifestyle. And websites like this attract a larger-than-normal portion of these individuals. They need to hear good, healthy messages about weight, nutrition, and exercise as badly as those who are extremely overweight do.
Many people internalize messages about moral value of actions and food; they just do. This is part of human nature. And that internalization is something no one else can do anything about, but what you can do is be conscious of whether you're reinforcing negative self-talk.
"This food is bad" becomes "People who eat this food are bad" which turns into "I am a bad person if I eat this food." It's not accurate, and it's unnecessarily destructive to spread this kind of moralizing thinking.
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I would say more nutritious foods help us to met daily needs easier than foods that are less nutritious. That doesn't mean one can't meet their nutritional (macro and micro) needs while eating "bad food". Once the needs are met, then health shouldn't be an issue if one isn't over/underweight.
Thanks for pointing this out! Once our nutritional needs are met, most of us actually have several hundred calories / day that are "Free" as in they can be anything we want them to be. This is particularly true for people who have paid careful attention to getting vitamins, minerals, fiber, etc. through nutritionally "dense" foods. Even when you're overweight, if you're meeting your nutritional needs and your diet plan has extra calories, there should be no moral weight applied at all to how you fill out your diet.
Also, @diannethegeek pointed out something I've observed to be very true. There are a lot of people on these forums who exhibit quite disordered thinking about food. And my experience is that sub-clinical disordered eating/exercising is fairly frequent in the general population (particularly among teenage and early 20's women).
The psychology community has acknowledged another disorder, Orthorexia Nervosa, which is an obsession with "healthy" living. For people with the tendency to think this way, or engage in obsessive behavior, its a very fine line between casually calling a food "bad" and enabling a destructive lifestyle. And websites like this attract a larger-than-normal portion of these individuals. They need to hear good, healthy messages about weight, nutrition, and exercise as badly as those who are extremely overweight do.
Many people internalize messages about moral value of actions and food; they just do. This is part of human nature. And that internalization is something no one else can do anything about, but what you can do is be conscious of whether you're reinforcing negative self-talk.
"This food is bad" becomes "People who eat this food are bad" which turns into "I am a bad person if I eat this food." It's not accurate, and it's unnecessarily destructive to spread this kind of moralizing thinking.
/clap0 -
My understanding is that the whole no bad food thing is about weight loss and only weight loss.
As in 1000 calories of deep fried mars bars is the same as 1000 calories of assorted vegetables, for weight loss.
I don't think I have ever seen someone say there are no bad foods, eat all the deep fried mars bars you like, you will fill all your macros perfectly and live in perfect health.
The no bad food argument is just a counter to people's claims that if they eat McDonald's they gain weight, but if they eat carrots they lose, so macca's is bad. But for weight loss they are equal if your eating the same calories of each.
Nutritionally and Heath wise they are clearly different.
Even with nutrition in mind, there aren't bad foods, there are bad diets. Sure, an all-candy-bar diet would be nutritionally horrible. So would an all-lettuce diet. It's not because lettuce is "bad", it's because you need to evaluate nutrition at the level of the diet, not the single food. At best you can say some foods help more with meeting nutritional goals than others, but even that is difficult to generalize, because for certain people, a double cheeseburger may be healthier than a salad (for example, if the person has protein or B12 deficiency).
To the OP - my strategy for dealing with foods I like but aren't very sating are to pair them with meals I know are extremely sating. If I do tacos with 95% lean beef, they are incredibly filling for their calorie content. Then maybe I can have a piece of cake or something else that wouldn't typically fill me up. I don't eliminate non-sating foods, but when I plan my meals, I take satiety into consideration and plan accordingly.0 -
nut butters are a very good food...but not if it was in my pantry. I'd most likely end up eating it straight out of the jar at 10pm at night...and lots of it. So unfortunately, at this time in my life, it is a bad food (for me).0
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endlessfall16 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
For you.
For me, not so much. It once was a challenge, but instead of demonizing the food...i looked at my own behavior, worked on it and changed it. Now, I can do it without much of a challenge at all.
Doesn't hurt to demonize the food as a way to change your own behavior. Our process is just different. LOL.
Best of luck with that.
No luck. It's just science.
Repeating something enough time will increase its efficiency. It's called practice, muscle memory. We do that all the time.
I don't need your advice, especially in an inaccurate shame based dieting program, but thanks.
Who said I was giving advice . I just refuted your point.
If you say so. LOL.
What a cop-out response. 0 -
nut butters are a very good food...but not if it was in my pantry. I'd most likely end up eating it straight out of the jar at 10pm at night...and lots of it. So unfortunately, at this time in my life, it is a bad food (for me).
That reminds me. My wife just discovered honey whipped butter and thought it was godsend.
Is that something sold in stores or just concocted up by chefs?0
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