For Some of Us there ARE Bad Foods
Replies
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »I'm going to regret tossing my two cents into this discussion with the way this thread is going (especially given some of the players in this thread), but here goes nothing.
I lost the majority of my weight during something that I call The Year of Weddings. Over the course of 6 months I had 4 close friends get married. And that year included a number of showers, bachelorette parties, craft parties, engagement parties, cake tastings, cupcake tastings, and all of the other events that happen every year (birthdays, game days, holidays, etc.).
I was struggling a lot to stick with my plan. And as I got deeper into the diet and my calories started to drop and fatigue started to set in, I was struggling with some serious mental and food issues. I was regularly breaking into tears about the foods I was eating. I cried in a friend's driveway before her bridal shower. I cried in a restaurant with my family because they were out of quinoa burgers. I was also having occasional binges where I felt like I actually had no control over my body. It felt like I was sitting beside myself watching my body gorge itself to the point of pain as some kind of self-harm mechanism. And no matter how loudly I shouted, my body would not stop. It was not a happy time for me.
I was already seeing a therapist for anxiety and depression and I didn't bring any of this up with her at first because I thought it was entirely normal (it's hard to see it when you're in it, sometimes). Dieting is supposed to be about pain, right? You're supposed to be miserable, right? So I suffered.
When I finally did describe it to her what I was describing turned out not to be normal. She made me realize that it wasn't okay and she worked with me to reevaluate why it was happening. I wasn't ready to give up the diet despite her advice (I was open and honest with her about it - I still had quite a bit to lose and I wasn't to the point of being diagnosed with BED or other EDs), but I could not go on as I had been.
Learning to reevaluate the way I looked at foods and take the judgement away was the only thing that allowed me to continue. If I hadn't discovered how to do that (in large part thanks to these boards) I am fairly certain that I would not have reached my goals and probably would have spiraled further out of control.
For me, the idea of good foods and bad foods is damaging to my mental health. For me, it is not something that I can worth with within the framework of a healthy diet (remember, mental health is important too!). For me, I will not allow that idea to work its way into my brain again and start doing more damage.
I don't care what you call your food. But if you say it out loud or you say it on the boards, I will add the opposing view. If I can stop just one other person from going down the same route I went down, all of the stupid arguments the posters here want to have about it will be worth my time.
I think this is an excellent point. I think one of the key differences with how we phrase our comments on these threads is that some people are speaking only of themselves, even if they never specifically say, "for me personally". They then seem to be offended when called on this and say, "I never told anyone else they had to do it this way, this is just how I do it". Others try to write our comments with others in mind, even if speaking from our own experience, trying to phrase things in a way that would be helpful to all.
Again, I personally don't care how people choose to approach their own strategy for what they eat, how much they eat, and their viewpoints about labeling foods. But I try to consider that there are others who are reading along, maybe not participating in the actual discussion and they need to know that there are options, that they don't HAVE to think of things in such black and white terms, and that some of those people may really be struggling with their viewpoints on food and how that impacts their decisions. So I too will continue to champion for the "there is no such thing as a bad food, any food can fit and be a positive contributor within the context of an overall balanced diet".
That's all well and good, or at least it would be if everyone were like diannethegeek. But not everyone is. What worked for her, worked for her. And I think it's great that she shares what worked for her. It would be great if everyone could share what worked for them without being told they are wrong, even if calling foods bad and good is what worked.
Did you... did you get to the end of my post? I'm honestly not sure that you did.
Yes, I did. I wasn't (didn't) reply to your post.
Not everyone is like me, no. But some are. And some may be and not even realize it yet. And the point is that you don't know whether you're talking to someone who is or isn't at any given time. On a public forum, saying xyz is a bad food can unintentionally do harm to those who are like me as well as those who aren't and have other issues around food.
I really don't care whether you were replying to me or not. Invoking my experiences in your post to defend your right to actively do harm to others is something that I'm going to respond to.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »I'm going to regret tossing my two cents into this discussion with the way this thread is going (especially given some of the players in this thread), but here goes nothing.
I lost the majority of my weight during something that I call The Year of Weddings. Over the course of 6 months I had 4 close friends get married. And that year included a number of showers, bachelorette parties, craft parties, engagement parties, cake tastings, cupcake tastings, and all of the other events that happen every year (birthdays, game days, holidays, etc.).
I was struggling a lot to stick with my plan. And as I got deeper into the diet and my calories started to drop and fatigue started to set in, I was struggling with some serious mental and food issues. I was regularly breaking into tears about the foods I was eating. I cried in a friend's driveway before her bridal shower. I cried in a restaurant with my family because they were out of quinoa burgers. I was also having occasional binges where I felt like I actually had no control over my body. It felt like I was sitting beside myself watching my body gorge itself to the point of pain as some kind of self-harm mechanism. And no matter how loudly I shouted, my body would not stop. It was not a happy time for me.
I was already seeing a therapist for anxiety and depression and I didn't bring any of this up with her at first because I thought it was entirely normal (it's hard to see it when you're in it, sometimes). Dieting is supposed to be about pain, right? You're supposed to be miserable, right? So I suffered.
When I finally did describe it to her what I was describing turned out not to be normal. She made me realize that it wasn't okay and she worked with me to reevaluate why it was happening. I wasn't ready to give up the diet despite her advice (I was open and honest with her about it - I still had quite a bit to lose and I wasn't to the point of being diagnosed with BED or other EDs), but I could not go on as I had been.
Learning to reevaluate the way I looked at foods and take the judgement away was the only thing that allowed me to continue. If I hadn't discovered how to do that (in large part thanks to these boards) I am fairly certain that I would not have reached my goals and probably would have spiraled further out of control.
For me, the idea of good foods and bad foods is damaging to my mental health. For me, it is not something that I can worth with within the framework of a healthy diet (remember, mental health is important too!). For me, I will not allow that idea to work its way into my brain again and start doing more damage.
I don't care what you call your food. But if you say it out loud or you say it on the boards, I will add the opposing view. If I can stop just one other person from going down the same route I went down, all of the stupid arguments the posters here want to have about it will be worth my time.
I think this is an excellent point. I think one of the key differences with how we phrase our comments on these threads is that some people are speaking only of themselves, even if they never specifically say, "for me personally". They then seem to be offended when called on this and say, "I never told anyone else they had to do it this way, this is just how I do it". Others try to write our comments with others in mind, even if speaking from our own experience, trying to phrase things in a way that would be helpful to all.
Again, I personally don't care how people choose to approach their own strategy for what they eat, how much they eat, and their viewpoints about labeling foods. But I try to consider that there are others who are reading along, maybe not participating in the actual discussion and they need to know that there are options, that they don't HAVE to think of things in such black and white terms, and that some of those people may really be struggling with their viewpoints on food and how that impacts their decisions. So I too will continue to champion for the "there is no such thing as a bad food, any food can fit and be a positive contributor within the context of an overall balanced diet".
That's all well and good, or at least it would be if everyone were like diannethegeek. But not everyone is. What worked for her, worked for her. And I think it's great that she shares what worked for her. It would be great if everyone could share what worked for them without being told they are wrong, even if calling foods bad and good is what worked.
Did you... did you get to the end of my post? I'm honestly not sure that you did.
Yes, I did. I wasn't (didn't) reply to your post.
Not everyone is like me, no. But some are. And some may be and not even realize it yet. And the point is that you don't know whether you're talking to someone who is or isn't at any given time. On a public forum, saying xyz is a bad food can unintentionally do harm to those who are like me as well as those who aren't and have other issues around food.
I really don't care whether you were replying to me or not. Invoking my experiences in your post to defend your right to actively do harm to others is something that I'm going to respond to.
Okay, I'm cool with you responding. Share your experience, by all means! I'm sure there are people who can benefit from them. Allowing everyone to share what works is my whole point.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »I'm going to regret tossing my two cents into this discussion with the way this thread is going (especially given some of the players in this thread), but here goes nothing.
I lost the majority of my weight during something that I call The Year of Weddings. Over the course of 6 months I had 4 close friends get married. And that year included a number of showers, bachelorette parties, craft parties, engagement parties, cake tastings, cupcake tastings, and all of the other events that happen every year (birthdays, game days, holidays, etc.).
I was struggling a lot to stick with my plan. And as I got deeper into the diet and my calories started to drop and fatigue started to set in, I was struggling with some serious mental and food issues. I was regularly breaking into tears about the foods I was eating. I cried in a friend's driveway before her bridal shower. I cried in a restaurant with my family because they were out of quinoa burgers. I was also having occasional binges where I felt like I actually had no control over my body. It felt like I was sitting beside myself watching my body gorge itself to the point of pain as some kind of self-harm mechanism. And no matter how loudly I shouted, my body would not stop. It was not a happy time for me.
I was already seeing a therapist for anxiety and depression and I didn't bring any of this up with her at first because I thought it was entirely normal (it's hard to see it when you're in it, sometimes). Dieting is supposed to be about pain, right? You're supposed to be miserable, right? So I suffered.
When I finally did describe it to her what I was describing turned out not to be normal. She made me realize that it wasn't okay and she worked with me to reevaluate why it was happening. I wasn't ready to give up the diet despite her advice (I was open and honest with her about it - I still had quite a bit to lose and I wasn't to the point of being diagnosed with BED or other EDs), but I could not go on as I had been.
Learning to reevaluate the way I looked at foods and take the judgement away was the only thing that allowed me to continue. If I hadn't discovered how to do that (in large part thanks to these boards) I am fairly certain that I would not have reached my goals and probably would have spiraled further out of control.
For me, the idea of good foods and bad foods is damaging to my mental health. For me, it is not something that I can worth with within the framework of a healthy diet (remember, mental health is important too!). For me, I will not allow that idea to work its way into my brain again and start doing more damage.
I don't care what you call your food. But if you say it out loud or you say it on the boards, I will add the opposing view. If I can stop just one other person from going down the same route I went down, all of the stupid arguments the posters here want to have about it will be worth my time.
I think this is an excellent point. I think one of the key differences with how we phrase our comments on these threads is that some people are speaking only of themselves, even if they never specifically say, "for me personally". They then seem to be offended when called on this and say, "I never told anyone else they had to do it this way, this is just how I do it". Others try to write our comments with others in mind, even if speaking from our own experience, trying to phrase things in a way that would be helpful to all.
Again, I personally don't care how people choose to approach their own strategy for what they eat, how much they eat, and their viewpoints about labeling foods. But I try to consider that there are others who are reading along, maybe not participating in the actual discussion and they need to know that there are options, that they don't HAVE to think of things in such black and white terms, and that some of those people may really be struggling with their viewpoints on food and how that impacts their decisions. So I too will continue to champion for the "there is no such thing as a bad food, any food can fit and be a positive contributor within the context of an overall balanced diet".
That's all well and good, or at least it would be if everyone were like diannethegeek. But not everyone is. What worked for her, worked for her. And I think it's great that she shares what worked for her. It would be great if everyone could share what worked for them without being told they are wrong, even if calling foods bad and good is what worked.
Do you get the point of this post by Diane? She put it very succinctly, something I tried to do a few posts before her.
Try prefacing your posts with, "this is what works for me". It would go a long way towards avoiding these types of comments you make that may, or may not, influence those just beginning here on MFP.
I am just saying, that a lot of people agree with Diane, myself included.
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snowflake930 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »I'm going to regret tossing my two cents into this discussion with the way this thread is going (especially given some of the players in this thread), but here goes nothing.
I lost the majority of my weight during something that I call The Year of Weddings. Over the course of 6 months I had 4 close friends get married. And that year included a number of showers, bachelorette parties, craft parties, engagement parties, cake tastings, cupcake tastings, and all of the other events that happen every year (birthdays, game days, holidays, etc.).
I was struggling a lot to stick with my plan. And as I got deeper into the diet and my calories started to drop and fatigue started to set in, I was struggling with some serious mental and food issues. I was regularly breaking into tears about the foods I was eating. I cried in a friend's driveway before her bridal shower. I cried in a restaurant with my family because they were out of quinoa burgers. I was also having occasional binges where I felt like I actually had no control over my body. It felt like I was sitting beside myself watching my body gorge itself to the point of pain as some kind of self-harm mechanism. And no matter how loudly I shouted, my body would not stop. It was not a happy time for me.
I was already seeing a therapist for anxiety and depression and I didn't bring any of this up with her at first because I thought it was entirely normal (it's hard to see it when you're in it, sometimes). Dieting is supposed to be about pain, right? You're supposed to be miserable, right? So I suffered.
When I finally did describe it to her what I was describing turned out not to be normal. She made me realize that it wasn't okay and she worked with me to reevaluate why it was happening. I wasn't ready to give up the diet despite her advice (I was open and honest with her about it - I still had quite a bit to lose and I wasn't to the point of being diagnosed with BED or other EDs), but I could not go on as I had been.
Learning to reevaluate the way I looked at foods and take the judgement away was the only thing that allowed me to continue. If I hadn't discovered how to do that (in large part thanks to these boards) I am fairly certain that I would not have reached my goals and probably would have spiraled further out of control.
For me, the idea of good foods and bad foods is damaging to my mental health. For me, it is not something that I can worth with within the framework of a healthy diet (remember, mental health is important too!). For me, I will not allow that idea to work its way into my brain again and start doing more damage.
I don't care what you call your food. But if you say it out loud or you say it on the boards, I will add the opposing view. If I can stop just one other person from going down the same route I went down, all of the stupid arguments the posters here want to have about it will be worth my time.
I think this is an excellent point. I think one of the key differences with how we phrase our comments on these threads is that some people are speaking only of themselves, even if they never specifically say, "for me personally". They then seem to be offended when called on this and say, "I never told anyone else they had to do it this way, this is just how I do it". Others try to write our comments with others in mind, even if speaking from our own experience, trying to phrase things in a way that would be helpful to all.
Again, I personally don't care how people choose to approach their own strategy for what they eat, how much they eat, and their viewpoints about labeling foods. But I try to consider that there are others who are reading along, maybe not participating in the actual discussion and they need to know that there are options, that they don't HAVE to think of things in such black and white terms, and that some of those people may really be struggling with their viewpoints on food and how that impacts their decisions. So I too will continue to champion for the "there is no such thing as a bad food, any food can fit and be a positive contributor within the context of an overall balanced diet".
That's all well and good, or at least it would be if everyone were like diannethegeek. But not everyone is. What worked for her, worked for her. And I think it's great that she shares what worked for her. It would be great if everyone could share what worked for them without being told they are wrong, even if calling foods bad and good is what worked.
Do you get the point of this post by Diane? She put it very succinctly, something I tried to do a few posts before her.
Try prefacing your posts with, "this is what works for me". It would go a long way towards avoiding these types of comments you make that may, or may not influence those just beginning.
and, just saying, that a lot of people agree with Diane.
I had no problem with Diane's post.
I had a problem with a reply to her post that used her example as a reason to continue championing the idea that no one should call food bad.0 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »blues4miles wrote: »I'm lactose intolerant but I don't roll around the boards telling everyone they should stop consuming dairy. Because I can't digest it doesn't mean it's bad for everyone else.I've lost weight & re-gained, so this time it's lifestyle changes only. If I never eat these so-called "bad" foods while I'm losing weight, then I really don't have a clue portion control wise, when I get to goal.
Agree with this whole heartedly. Not giving up anything I don't plan to give up for the rest of my life. This isn't a diet.
True words.
Realize that over 80% of the people that lose the weight, gain all of it (some gain even more than they lost) back. A small percent are able to keep it off for over 5 years. If you don't learn moderation and portion size while losing, will you be able to do this in maintenance?
So a food has to be bad for EVERYONE to qualify the statement "bad food"?
With that requirement I don't thing anything "in and itself" in this world is bad for it always works (good) for something.
So of course there are bad foods and they have to be understood in certain contexts, for practical purposes.
Stop thinking of food in terms of good/evil. Food does not have a motive.
I already mentioned my lactose intolerance. Something like 75% of the non-white world suffers from it. But it would be silly if someone had a "why am I not losing weight thread?" and I was like "have you considered cutting dairy out your life...FOREVER...because it's a BAD FOOD." Yet plenty of people will suggest they aren't eating clean enough, or to cut out the 150 calories of cookies someone is eating once a day. Some huge part of the world's population can't optimally digest dairy to varying degrees. But their ability to digest it still doesn't affect weight loss. Food choice is very personal and might lead some to a higher degree of adherence or success. Like people who eat more protein might be more full and less likely to binge. Others may have problems with certain kinds of proteins. Some people may not be able to have a bag of doritos in the house or they'll binge on it all at one time. Other folks might plan their calories around a bag of doritos treat they are going to eat that week and that keeps them motivated and willing to continue. There are no good/bad foods.0 -
What you described isn't a bad food. You described something totally different. You said you'd feel fuller off of options A or B and would be hungry 15 mins later and want to eat more with option C.
What if I have met all my micro and macros and have saved room for a snack. I've eaten a well balanced diet all day and chose option c as my treat. I personally have no problem weighing out option c and putting away the rest. I wouldn't be hungry in 15 mins because I have eaten my well balanced diet and I wouldn't be tempted to eat more then my allotted portion . I have learned portion control and moderation . so in my case, there are no bad foods.
Some people are just not great at using portion control and moderation yet but can learn to be if they want to.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »I'm going to regret tossing my two cents into this discussion with the way this thread is going (especially given some of the players in this thread), but here goes nothing.
I lost the majority of my weight during something that I call The Year of Weddings. Over the course of 6 months I had 4 close friends get married. And that year included a number of showers, bachelorette parties, craft parties, engagement parties, cake tastings, cupcake tastings, and all of the other events that happen every year (birthdays, game days, holidays, etc.).
I was struggling a lot to stick with my plan. And as I got deeper into the diet and my calories started to drop and fatigue started to set in, I was struggling with some serious mental and food issues. I was regularly breaking into tears about the foods I was eating. I cried in a friend's driveway before her bridal shower. I cried in a restaurant with my family because they were out of quinoa burgers. I was also having occasional binges where I felt like I actually had no control over my body. It felt like I was sitting beside myself watching my body gorge itself to the point of pain as some kind of self-harm mechanism. And no matter how loudly I shouted, my body would not stop. It was not a happy time for me.
I was already seeing a therapist for anxiety and depression and I didn't bring any of this up with her at first because I thought it was entirely normal (it's hard to see it when you're in it, sometimes). Dieting is supposed to be about pain, right? You're supposed to be miserable, right? So I suffered.
When I finally did describe it to her what I was describing turned out not to be normal. She made me realize that it wasn't okay and she worked with me to reevaluate why it was happening. I wasn't ready to give up the diet despite her advice (I was open and honest with her about it - I still had quite a bit to lose and I wasn't to the point of being diagnosed with BED or other EDs), but I could not go on as I had been.
Learning to reevaluate the way I looked at foods and take the judgement away was the only thing that allowed me to continue. If I hadn't discovered how to do that (in large part thanks to these boards) I am fairly certain that I would not have reached my goals and probably would have spiraled further out of control.
For me, the idea of good foods and bad foods is damaging to my mental health. For me, it is not something that I can worth with within the framework of a healthy diet (remember, mental health is important too!). For me, I will not allow that idea to work its way into my brain again and start doing more damage.
I don't care what you call your food. But if you say it out loud or you say it on the boards, I will add the opposing view. If I can stop just one other person from going down the same route I went down, all of the stupid arguments the posters here want to have about it will be worth my time.
I think this is an excellent point. I think one of the key differences with how we phrase our comments on these threads is that some people are speaking only of themselves, even if they never specifically say, "for me personally". They then seem to be offended when called on this and say, "I never told anyone else they had to do it this way, this is just how I do it". Others try to write our comments with others in mind, even if speaking from our own experience, trying to phrase things in a way that would be helpful to all.
Again, I personally don't care how people choose to approach their own strategy for what they eat, how much they eat, and their viewpoints about labeling foods. But I try to consider that there are others who are reading along, maybe not participating in the actual discussion and they need to know that there are options, that they don't HAVE to think of things in such black and white terms, and that some of those people may really be struggling with their viewpoints on food and how that impacts their decisions. So I too will continue to champion for the "there is no such thing as a bad food, any food can fit and be a positive contributor within the context of an overall balanced diet".
That's all well and good, or at least it would be if everyone were like diannethegeek. But not everyone is. What worked for her, worked for her. And I think it's great that she shares what worked for her. It would be great if everyone could share what worked for them without being told they are wrong, even if calling foods bad and good is what worked.
Did you... did you get to the end of my post? I'm honestly not sure that you did.
Yes, I did. I wasn't (didn't) reply to your post.
Not everyone is like me, no. But some are. And some may be and not even realize it yet. And the point is that you don't know whether you're talking to someone who is or isn't at any given time. On a public forum, saying xyz is a bad food can unintentionally do harm to those who are like me as well as those who aren't and have other issues around food.
I really don't care whether you were replying to me or not. Invoking my experiences in your post to defend your right to actively do harm to others is something that I'm going to respond to.
There is a lot of harmful, disordered thinking about food on these boards. And often enough, the people expressing it don't even see it. Having said that, we also have a responsibility to ourselves to abstain from behaviour that weakens our ability to manage our own emotional well-being. I tend to stay away from the "exercise /dieting is so hard" people here when my batteries are down because the suckage and debbie-downers can kill my resolve. It's unfortunate but if others behaviour is triggering you owe it yourself to put them on mute.
Honestly, there are 3-4 users on this board at any time that bring nothing but a spinning rabbit hole of poor choices/ poor ideas/poor attitudes and a mental map around food that would lead me to terrible places if I were to adopt it. Cut them off, out of your perspective, if you need it. No need to poison your experience. Be awesome.
(And no, if you are in this thread and reading this, this isn't about you - well, not the people that have posted so far in this thread).
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »I'm going to regret tossing my two cents into this discussion with the way this thread is going (especially given some of the players in this thread), but here goes nothing.
I lost the majority of my weight during something that I call The Year of Weddings. Over the course of 6 months I had 4 close friends get married. And that year included a number of showers, bachelorette parties, craft parties, engagement parties, cake tastings, cupcake tastings, and all of the other events that happen every year (birthdays, game days, holidays, etc.).
I was struggling a lot to stick with my plan. And as I got deeper into the diet and my calories started to drop and fatigue started to set in, I was struggling with some serious mental and food issues. I was regularly breaking into tears about the foods I was eating. I cried in a friend's driveway before her bridal shower. I cried in a restaurant with my family because they were out of quinoa burgers. I was also having occasional binges where I felt like I actually had no control over my body. It felt like I was sitting beside myself watching my body gorge itself to the point of pain as some kind of self-harm mechanism. And no matter how loudly I shouted, my body would not stop. It was not a happy time for me.
I was already seeing a therapist for anxiety and depression and I didn't bring any of this up with her at first because I thought it was entirely normal (it's hard to see it when you're in it, sometimes). Dieting is supposed to be about pain, right? You're supposed to be miserable, right? So I suffered.
When I finally did describe it to her what I was describing turned out not to be normal. She made me realize that it wasn't okay and she worked with me to reevaluate why it was happening. I wasn't ready to give up the diet despite her advice (I was open and honest with her about it - I still had quite a bit to lose and I wasn't to the point of being diagnosed with BED or other EDs), but I could not go on as I had been.
Learning to reevaluate the way I looked at foods and take the judgement away was the only thing that allowed me to continue. If I hadn't discovered how to do that (in large part thanks to these boards) I am fairly certain that I would not have reached my goals and probably would have spiraled further out of control.
For me, the idea of good foods and bad foods is damaging to my mental health. For me, it is not something that I can worth with within the framework of a healthy diet (remember, mental health is important too!). For me, I will not allow that idea to work its way into my brain again and start doing more damage.
I don't care what you call your food. But if you say it out loud or you say it on the boards, I will add the opposing view. If I can stop just one other person from going down the same route I went down, all of the stupid arguments the posters here want to have about it will be worth my time.
I think this is an excellent point. I think one of the key differences with how we phrase our comments on these threads is that some people are speaking only of themselves, even if they never specifically say, "for me personally". They then seem to be offended when called on this and say, "I never told anyone else they had to do it this way, this is just how I do it". Others try to write our comments with others in mind, even if speaking from our own experience, trying to phrase things in a way that would be helpful to all.
Again, I personally don't care how people choose to approach their own strategy for what they eat, how much they eat, and their viewpoints about labeling foods. But I try to consider that there are others who are reading along, maybe not participating in the actual discussion and they need to know that there are options, that they don't HAVE to think of things in such black and white terms, and that some of those people may really be struggling with their viewpoints on food and how that impacts their decisions. So I too will continue to champion for the "there is no such thing as a bad food, any food can fit and be a positive contributor within the context of an overall balanced diet".
That's all well and good, or at least it would be if everyone were like diannethegeek. But not everyone is. What worked for her, worked for her. And I think it's great that she shares what worked for her. It would be great if everyone could share what worked for them without being told they are wrong, even if calling foods bad and good is what worked.
Do you get the point of this post by Diane? She put it very succinctly, something I tried to do a few posts before her.
Try prefacing your posts with, "this is what works for me". It would go a long way towards avoiding these types of comments you make that may, or may not influence those just beginning.
and, just saying, that a lot of people agree with Diane.
I had no problem with Diane's post.
I had a problem with a reply to her post that used her example as a reason to continue championing the idea that no one should call food bad.
Well, no one should call a food bad, or good. It is food. Overeating any food will lead to weight gains by most people, as eating less calories than you burn will lead to weight loss.
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diannethegeek wrote: »I'm going to regret tossing my two cents into this discussion with the way this thread is going (especially given some of the players in this thread), but here goes nothing.
I lost the majority of my weight during something that I call The Year of Weddings. Over the course of 6 months I had 4 close friends get married. And that year included a number of showers, bachelorette parties, craft parties, engagement parties, cake tastings, cupcake tastings, and all of the other events that happen every year (birthdays, game days, holidays, etc.).
I was struggling a lot to stick with my plan. And as I got deeper into the diet and my calories started to drop and fatigue started to set in, I was struggling with some serious mental and food issues. I was regularly breaking into tears about the foods I was eating. I cried in a friend's driveway before her bridal shower. I cried in a restaurant with my family because they were out of quinoa burgers. I was also having occasional binges where I felt like I actually had no control over my body. It felt like I was sitting beside myself watching my body gorge itself to the point of pain as some kind of self-harm mechanism. And no matter how loudly I shouted, my body would not stop. It was not a happy time for me.
I was already seeing a therapist for anxiety and depression and I didn't bring any of this up with her at first because I thought it was entirely normal (it's hard to see it when you're in it, sometimes). Dieting is supposed to be about pain, right? You're supposed to be miserable, right? So I suffered.
When I finally did describe it to her what I was describing turned out not to be normal. She made me realize that it wasn't okay and she worked with me to reevaluate why it was happening. I wasn't ready to give up the diet despite her advice (I was open and honest with her about it - I still had quite a bit to lose and I wasn't to the point of being diagnosed with BED or other EDs), but I could not go on as I had been.
Learning to reevaluate the way I looked at foods and take the judgement away was the only thing that allowed me to continue. If I hadn't discovered how to do that (in large part thanks to these boards) I am fairly certain that I would not have reached my goals and probably would have spiraled further out of control.
For me, the idea of good foods and bad foods is damaging to my mental health. For me, it is not something that I can worth with within the framework of a healthy diet (remember, mental health is important too!). For me, I will not allow that idea to work its way into my brain again and start doing more damage.
I don't care what you call your food. But if you say it out loud or you say it on the boards, I will add the opposing view. If I can stop just one other person from going down the same route I went down, all of the stupid arguments the posters here want to have about it will be worth my time.
And I agree with all of this.
And the more I reread this, the more I realize I'm failing at handling my issues with food on my own. I hate admitting that I need outside help, but maybe I actually do.
*sigh*0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »I'm going to regret tossing my two cents into this discussion with the way this thread is going (especially given some of the players in this thread), but here goes nothing.
I lost the majority of my weight during something that I call The Year of Weddings. Over the course of 6 months I had 4 close friends get married. And that year included a number of showers, bachelorette parties, craft parties, engagement parties, cake tastings, cupcake tastings, and all of the other events that happen every year (birthdays, game days, holidays, etc.).
I was struggling a lot to stick with my plan. And as I got deeper into the diet and my calories started to drop and fatigue started to set in, I was struggling with some serious mental and food issues. I was regularly breaking into tears about the foods I was eating. I cried in a friend's driveway before her bridal shower. I cried in a restaurant with my family because they were out of quinoa burgers. I was also having occasional binges where I felt like I actually had no control over my body. It felt like I was sitting beside myself watching my body gorge itself to the point of pain as some kind of self-harm mechanism. And no matter how loudly I shouted, my body would not stop. It was not a happy time for me.
I was already seeing a therapist for anxiety and depression and I didn't bring any of this up with her at first because I thought it was entirely normal (it's hard to see it when you're in it, sometimes). Dieting is supposed to be about pain, right? You're supposed to be miserable, right? So I suffered.
When I finally did describe it to her what I was describing turned out not to be normal. She made me realize that it wasn't okay and she worked with me to reevaluate why it was happening. I wasn't ready to give up the diet despite her advice (I was open and honest with her about it - I still had quite a bit to lose and I wasn't to the point of being diagnosed with BED or other EDs), but I could not go on as I had been.
Learning to reevaluate the way I looked at foods and take the judgement away was the only thing that allowed me to continue. If I hadn't discovered how to do that (in large part thanks to these boards) I am fairly certain that I would not have reached my goals and probably would have spiraled further out of control.
For me, the idea of good foods and bad foods is damaging to my mental health. For me, it is not something that I can worth with within the framework of a healthy diet (remember, mental health is important too!). For me, I will not allow that idea to work its way into my brain again and start doing more damage.
I don't care what you call your food. But if you say it out loud or you say it on the boards, I will add the opposing view. If I can stop just one other person from going down the same route I went down, all of the stupid arguments the posters here want to have about it will be worth my time.
I think this is an excellent point. I think one of the key differences with how we phrase our comments on these threads is that some people are speaking only of themselves, even if they never specifically say, "for me personally". They then seem to be offended when called on this and say, "I never told anyone else they had to do it this way, this is just how I do it". Others try to write our comments with others in mind, even if speaking from our own experience, trying to phrase things in a way that would be helpful to all.
Again, I personally don't care how people choose to approach their own strategy for what they eat, how much they eat, and their viewpoints about labeling foods. But I try to consider that there are others who are reading along, maybe not participating in the actual discussion and they need to know that there are options, that they don't HAVE to think of things in such black and white terms, and that some of those people may really be struggling with their viewpoints on food and how that impacts their decisions. So I too will continue to champion for the "there is no such thing as a bad food, any food can fit and be a positive contributor within the context of an overall balanced diet".
That's all well and good, or at least it would be if everyone were like diannethegeek. But not everyone is. What worked for her, worked for her. And I think it's great that she shares what worked for her. It would be great if everyone could share what worked for them without being told they are wrong, even if calling foods bad and good is what worked.
Do you get the point of this post by Diane? She put it very succinctly, something I tried to do a few posts before her.
Try prefacing your posts with, "this is what works for me". It would go a long way towards avoiding these types of comments you make that may, or may not influence those just beginning.
and, just saying, that a lot of people agree with Diane.
I had no problem with Diane's post.
I had a problem with a reply to her post that used her example as a reason to continue championing the idea that no one should call food bad.
See and now I think you either didn't read or didn't understand my post, or maybe just don't care if the way you present information could be harmful to some users rather than helpful.0 -
The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.0
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
My grandmothers were better at it!0 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
This is a point I tried to make-totally in vain.
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
Meh, my fritos have 3 ingredients: corn, corn oil, salt.0 -
Also for some of us there are foods we adore that just don't make us feel good. I get terrible stomach cramps when I stray from low-carb and eat toast or cereal. I haven't been diagnosed with any sort of intolerance or GI illness, however I do know how it makes me feel regardless of an actual medical problem.0
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »I understand that this does not apply to everyone. But I think we need to be careful about telling people they can succeed while eating everything they like to eat, because there are people for whom this generalization is simply not true.
It's pretty trendy right now to pretend what we eat doesn't matter.
I don't think at all that what we eat doesn't matter (although I think some other things matter a lot more).
I just don't think this means foods I choose not to eat much of (or include in my diet only in limited amounts because of the calories and nutrition in them) means they are bad foods, as I understand that term (and defined above, to avoid confusion).
I honestly think it's frustrating for people to pretend that when others say there are no bad foods that they are saying that what we eat doesn't matter at all, that nutrition isn't important.
I do disagree that food industry advertising is significant, as I've never been confused by that, and I think people today are (or should be, if they are informed and responsible) sophisticated enough not to be misled by advertising. We should all be pretty jaded about ads.
Agree people should do what works, but that's not what I see this discussion as about -- OP objected to others saying they don't see foods as bad. I never/rarely eat lots of foods, but that doesn't mean I see them as bad. (I guess I see Cheetos as bad because I don't like the way they taste and don't understand anyone overeating them, but that's obviously just subjective and not something that defines them for others.)0 -
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
For you.
For me, not so much. It once was a challenge, but instead of demonizing the food...i looked at my own behavior, worked on it and changed it. Now, I can do it without much of a challenge at all.
Doesn't hurt to demonize the food as a way to change your own behavior. Our process is just different. LOL.
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
Another point about this argument that food companies "engineer" food to make it taste good:
What kind of company shouldn't try to make a product that consumers want? How would that be responsible to their shareholders or employees? Or to their customers, for that matter? What kind of business can operate that way? And as I said before, how is it different than what generations of home cooks have done?
Certainly food companies use other angles: some might push the "health food" angle, or the "gourmet" angle, or even the "socially responsible" angle. But in the end, if it isn't attractive to consumers, it won't get bought.
A lot of consumers want food that tastes good. So certainly there is going to be a market for straight-up good tasting food. Is that Frito-Lay's fault? Or McDonalds'?
(I don't say this with any affection for Frito-Lay, by the way. I personally could take or leave chips and often don't eat them when they are offered.)
Relevant (language warning):
http://www.theonion.com/article/frito-lay-angrily-introduces-line-of-healthy-snack-2082
http://www.theonion.com/article/two-new-burger-king-sandwiches-negate-each-other-30390 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »
-I think the moralistic tone about willpower and "bad behavior" is misguided. Many snack foods are engineered to be craved. The makers utilize sophisticated research techniques to find the right combination of salt, sugar, fat, crunch, dissolve rate, so as to reach what flavor researchers refer to as the "bliss point." I think this is as much an attribute of food design as it is an attribute of the eater. But, since everyone is different, I think some are impacted more than others.
This is silly.
By this logic you could argue that I'm engineering the chili recipe that I'm constantly tweeking to reach the "bliss point."
Don't blame a food for your lack of self control because it tastes good.
The purpose of cooking IS to engineer foods to make them taste good. Of course! For that matter, I would expect a food manufacturer to do research to determine what makes their food "crave-able". I do think that one side effect of this is that some foods become much easier to overeat....
The term "bliss point" was coined by the food industry-NOT ME. The process I described is theirs; I didn't make it up.
Are people on this board so hostile because they are hungry all the time?
Nope, hostile because some can eat anything, and have the self control not to overeat, not because food is either "bad" or "good", but some of us found our way to moderation, portion control and not eating more calories than we burn.
In order for this to work long term, that is what has to be done to maintain.
In your opinion is "bad" solely tied to body weight?
Of course not, but getting the excess weight off is a lot healthier than being overweight.
But, there are a lot of new people here, and they buy into some of this misinformation. I did myself when I began. The first two months here (3/2012 through 5/2012) I listened to this kind of information. Then, I read a post here that said all food in moderation. It was like an epiphany to me. An aha moment. I went on to lose over 1/2 of my current body weight and have kept if off for over 2 years.
You can do what is right for you. You can not, however, know what is right for anyone else. It is up to each individual and his/her health care professional.
I am not condoning a diet of Cheetos, just saying, fit it in to your calorie allotment, and enjoy your life a little.
I wouldn't argue with any of that, and it doesn't seem opposite from what the OP said. But I don't see any of that as a reason I shouldn't call Cheetos bad food.
I'm not telling anyone else to call any food bad. I just wish others would stop telling me I shouldn't. I've been calling them bad for several decades while enjoying my life quite a lot.
I'm not telling you you shouldn't call foods bad. That's why I posted to point out that people are defining "bad" in different ways. There just seem to be lots of threads (this being one) in which the OP tries to convince others that foods are bad (in other words, that we should agree it's helpful to call them that).
I leave it to you to determine whether it's helpful for you to call them that, and wouldn't argue with you as to your conclusion. But similarly that it's not helpful or correct for me, given my understanding of what "bad foods" means, should be up to me, and not something others (like OP) claim is wrong.0 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
For you.
For me, not so much. It once was a challenge, but instead of demonizing the food...i looked at my own behavior, worked on it and changed it. Now, I can do it without much of a challenge at all.
Doesn't hurt to demonize the food as a way to change your own behavior. Our process is just different. LOL.
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
This is a point I tried to make-totally in vain.
I don't agree with this point, because I don't find Frito Lay products particularly desirable at all. Not because they are bad (IMO they are not), but because other things I could eat are much tastier.
Packaged foods are just easier to eat than foods you have to make yourself. They aren't somehow tastier or harder to avoid overeating (except that they are around, including at times we might not otherwise think to eat).0 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
For you.
For me, not so much. It once was a challenge, but instead of demonizing the food...i looked at my own behavior, worked on it and changed it. Now, I can do it without much of a challenge at all.
Doesn't hurt to demonize the food as a way to change your own behavior. Our process is just different. LOL.
Lying to myself would never work for me.0 -
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Disappointing Dr. Oz is never a bad thing! ;-)0
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diannethegeek wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
For you.
For me, not so much. It once was a challenge, but instead of demonizing the food...i looked at my own behavior, worked on it and changed it. Now, I can do it without much of a challenge at all.
Doesn't hurt to demonize the food as a way to change your own behavior. Our process is just different. LOL.
*tackles Nathan Fillion*
I think telling yourself a food is evil is one thing (if it helps and you're not doing harm to yourself by telling yourself that). I think believing it is a whole other ball of wax.
<----eats ALL the evil foods and then some!0 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The Frito Lay corporation has mastered the skill of gaining stomach share by making each of their products compellingly desirable. It's certainly a challenge to try to include a few in your plan.
Here's the deal. Frito Lay doesn't have armed thugs at the supermarket forcing people to buy their products (only the government can get away with that tactic). They have to make things people WANT to buy. They make things we want then we give them money. If they make things we don't won't, they get nothing. "Compellingly desirable" does not equal "force." Or do you also think women who wear short skirts are asking for it?0 -
I just want to say that I do not support this type of Cheeto-shaming. Cheetos are a gift from the heavens.0
This discussion has been closed.
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