For Some of Us there ARE Bad Foods
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I would easily overeat things like cheese, nuts, meatballs, saltine crackers, ham, hummus or guacamole way past the point of fullness. I have to watch my consumption of all food because fullness isn't a stop sign at all for me. Maybe that is the case for a lot of us. It doesn't mean I can't eat them or that they are bad foods. I just have to log and measure out portions of everything.
Some foods do fill me up more than others and I pay attention to that because I don't want to be hungry all the time. Eating a doughnut for breakfast doesn't hold me very well until lunch but it would be perfectly fine for a snack around 3 pm.
A lot of people asking questions here are wondering if they can ever eat things like pizza, fruit, bread, potatoes or rice though because someone on the internet promoted a very restrictive diet that said these foods a bad and you can't lose weight eating these foods which is false. People need to know that they really can still eat the foods they like and lose weight in a sustainable way.
If I tell someone they can eat whatever they like for weight loss as long as it fits their calorie goal it is because they can. I don't know how they will feel eating certain foods. I just know it can be done. I encourage people to make sure they are getting enough protein, fats and eating several servings of fruits or vegetables a day. If they really want to eat 1200 calories of cheetos every day that is their ridiculous business. One serving of cheetos would fit in most people's daily goal along with other more filling food though so they are not bad food.
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I have been using MFP for some time, but have only recently started visiting this board. I find myself surprised at the number of people who say such things as "there are no bad foods" or "you can eat whatever you want" when they no nothing of the individual circumstances of the poster.
It seems to me you just mean something different by "bad food" than I do. When I say I don't consider (many) foods bad, I don't mean that I think it makes no different what I choose at a particular time. I mean that I don't consider a food "bad" merely because it's a food that isn't especially high in nutrients or may be difficult for me to avoid overeating. I would only consider it "bad" if I thought it was actively bad for people in general (i.e., had a poisonous ingredient). I generally do avoid trans fats, so maybe I'd consider them bad, but it doesn't come up for me enough to worry about.
There are things I am allergic to, but those aren't IMO bad, even if bad for me. (No foods I know of, but penicillin).
That aside, and focusing on your example, I can include 160 calories of something lower nutrient in my day without being hungry, quite easily, and I suspect most not on super low calories could, if they otherwise ate a good, sensible diet.0 -
I am one who says you can eat what ever you want as long as it fits. For me, I notice that what I want has changed some. I probably wouldn't eat Cheetos as my evening snack because they wouldn't leave me as full as nuts or something else. But if I want to eat Cheetos then I will eat them with a meal, not by themselves and then I don't have to worry about the Cheetos keeping me full if the sandwich that I ate them with does the trick. I do agree that some foods are harder for some people than others. I have a hard time with ice cream. If I have it in my freezer I will eat it until it is gone so for now if I want ice cream I will have to go out for a single serving of ice cream.0
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I think the people who have been around here a long time are pretty good about adding all the caveats like "for medical reasons". It's really up to the person seeking help to mention any special circumstances.
Also, personally, if I ate the 160 calories worth of veggies and hummus, I'd still end up sneaking a cheeto or two if that's what I wanted in the first place.
Agree with this- If I want ice cream, and I substitute Arctic Zero, I am still going to want some ice cream.0 -
One of the best points I've gotten from reading the MFP messageboards, is to stop blaming food choices on external factors like a party host having chips and guac out, or a kind room-mate buying fried chicken to share.
Eating or not eating that food that doesn't fit into your calorie plan has nothing to do with people other than you. It has to do with you and only your own willpower, and your own ability to stop yourself when you're feeling tempted.
This extends to everything. Of course there are some foods that are more tempting for you, that also wouldn't be satisfying enough for the calories to be "worth" it. (For me it's halvah.) But since the temptation for them is coming from you, and must be controlled by you, it's silly to label them as "bad" in general. "Caloric and not very filling for me" is more like it.
And as for satiety being subjective, I totally agree. Potato chips and their ilk have never been filling for me, but some people swear the delicious oiliness of them fills them up. *shrug*0 -
I have been yoyo dieting for over a decade because I could never stick to any diet because of all the restrictions. I have been using MFP for over a year and kept the weight off because I can still eat pizza and French fries and drink alcohol.
90% of the time I eat the veggies and hummus but it's good to know I can still enjoy the cheetos if I want to.0 -
I typically save calories so that if I get hungry in the evening, there is room for a snack. So lets assume I am going to "spend" 160 calories.
My choices:
A. Eat 1/4 cup of nuts B. 160 calories of raw veggies with hummus or C. 160 calories of Cheetos
If I were to select A or B, I would end up more full the whole evening, and I would experiences no strong urges to eat the entire pantry. If I were to select C., I would be REALLY hungry 15 minutes later and would have to fight back INTENSE cravings to eat more.
I believe that we can eat anything we want in moderation (you can even lose weight eating nothing but Twinkies as long as you're consuming fewer calories than you expend)
The scenario you've described has a very simple explanation. The nuts have both fat and protein, the veggies an hummus have fat, protein and fibre and are far more likely to leave you feeling satiated. The Cheetos, other than being delicious and leaving your fingers orange, have no redeeming qualities but the contain a lot of salt which evolution has taught us to crave.
Whether or not you give in to the cravings to eat more of them is a matter of self-control
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I have no medical reason not to eat any food, I still maintain that there are bad and good foods. I have never seen anything on this site or elsewhere to make me think otherwise.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I have no medical reason not to eat any food, I still maintain that there are bad and good foods. I have never seen anything on this site or elsewhere to make me think otherwise.
Examples and rationale?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I have no medical reason not to eat any food, I still maintain that there are bad and good foods. I have never seen anything on this site or elsewhere to make me think otherwise.
You are absolutely right. I agree whole-heartedly.
My grandmother used to cook for us a lot. One day, after her sense of smell had deteriorated quite a bit, she invited us over for dinner. Steak and gravy with homemade biscuits - one of my favorite meals that my grandmother prepared. When we sat down to eat, the biscuits smelled......off. My mom told us kids not to eat them just yet. My mom went snooping in my grandmother's kitchen and discovered that the lard my grandmother had used to make the biscuits had gone rancid.
That rancid lard and the resulting biscuits were bad foods for sure.
I don't know why the people on these forums don't understand that.0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I have no medical reason not to eat any food, I still maintain that there are bad and good foods. I have never seen anything on this site or elsewhere to make me think otherwise.
You are absolutely right. I agree whole-heartedly.
My grandmother used to cook for us a lot. One day, after her sense of smell had deteriorated quite a bit, she invited us over for dinner. Steak and gravy with homemade biscuits - one of my favorite meals that my grandmother prepared. When we sat down to eat, the biscuits smelled......off. My mom told us kids not to eat them just yet. My mom went snooping in my grandmother's kitchen and discovered that the lard my grandmother had used to make the biscuits had gone rancid.
That rancid lard and the resulting biscuits were bad foods for sure.
I don't know why the people on these forums don't understand that.
Because, there is a difference between spoiled/rancid food, that could make you ill, and food that is perfectly fine to consume if you so desire. Not good, not bad, just food you do or don't want to eat for whatever reason.
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tincanonastring wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I have no medical reason not to eat any food, I still maintain that there are bad and good foods. I have never seen anything on this site or elsewhere to make me think otherwise.
Examples and rationale?
I think "itos" food group is a good enough example, along with other junk food, of bad foods. Good foods would be those associated with improved health - vegetables, fruits, nuts, lean meats, fish/seafood, etc.0 -
Bad foods should be spanked, and sent to their rooms.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I have no medical reason not to eat any food, I still maintain that there are bad and good foods. I have never seen anything on this site or elsewhere to make me think otherwise.
Examples and rationale?
I think "itos" food group is a good enough example, along with other junk food, of bad foods. Good foods would be those associated with improved health - vegetables, fruits, nuts, lean meats, fish/seafood, etc.
Ok, what is 'itos'? I'm not connecting that with anything.
And 'junk' food means different things to different people. I always term it as high-calorie/low-nutrient foods. That doesn't make those foods 'bad', it just means you need to limit how much you eat.
Without dinner.Bad foods should be spanked, and sent to their rooms.0 -
snowflake930 wrote: »blues4miles wrote: »I'm lactose intolerant but I don't roll around the boards telling everyone they should stop consuming dairy. Because I can't digest it doesn't mean it's bad for everyone else.I've lost weight & re-gained, so this time it's lifestyle changes only. If I never eat these so-called "bad" foods while I'm losing weight, then I really don't have a clue portion control wise, when I get to goal.
Agree with this whole heartedly. Not giving up anything I don't plan to give up for the rest of my life. This isn't a diet.
True words.
Realize that over 80% of the people that lose the weight, gain all of it (some gain even more than they lost) back. A small percent are able to keep it off for over 5 years. If you don't learn moderation and portion size while losing, will you be able to do this in maintenance?
So a food has to be bad for EVERYONE to qualify the statement "bad food"?
With that requirement I don't thing anything "in and itself" in this world is bad for it always works (good) for something.
So of course there are bad foods and they have to be understood in certain contexts, for practical purposes.
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endlessfall16 wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »blues4miles wrote: »I'm lactose intolerant but I don't roll around the boards telling everyone they should stop consuming dairy. Because I can't digest it doesn't mean it's bad for everyone else.I've lost weight & re-gained, so this time it's lifestyle changes only. If I never eat these so-called "bad" foods while I'm losing weight, then I really don't have a clue portion control wise, when I get to goal.
Agree with this whole heartedly. Not giving up anything I don't plan to give up for the rest of my life. This isn't a diet.
True words.
Realize that over 80% of the people that lose the weight, gain all of it (some gain even more than they lost) back. A small percent are able to keep it off for over 5 years. If you don't learn moderation and portion size while losing, will you be able to do this in maintenance?
So a food has to be bad for EVERYONE to qualify the statement "bad food"?
With that requirement I don't thing anything "in and itself" in this world is bad for it always works (good) for something.
So of course there are bad foods and they have to be understood in certain contexts, for practical purposes.
Yes. There may be foods that are bad FOR YOU, like bread to someone with celiac, but bread in and of itself is not bad.0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I have no medical reason not to eat any food, I still maintain that there are bad and good foods. I have never seen anything on this site or elsewhere to make me think otherwise.
You are absolutely right. I agree whole-heartedly.
My grandmother used to cook for us a lot. One day, after her sense of smell had deteriorated quite a bit, she invited us over for dinner. Steak and gravy with homemade biscuits - one of my favorite meals that my grandmother prepared. When we sat down to eat, the biscuits smelled......off. My mom told us kids not to eat them just yet. My mom went snooping in my grandmother's kitchen and discovered that the lard my grandmother had used to make the biscuits had gone rancid.
That rancid lard and the resulting biscuits were bad foods for sure.
I don't know why the people on these forums don't understand that.
;-)0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I have no medical reason not to eat any food, I still maintain that there are bad and good foods. I have never seen anything on this site or elsewhere to make me think otherwise.
You are absolutely right. I agree whole-heartedly.
My grandmother used to cook for us a lot. One day, after her sense of smell had deteriorated quite a bit, she invited us over for dinner. Steak and gravy with homemade biscuits - one of my favorite meals that my grandmother prepared. When we sat down to eat, the biscuits smelled......off. My mom told us kids not to eat them just yet. My mom went snooping in my grandmother's kitchen and discovered that the lard my grandmother had used to make the biscuits had gone rancid.
That rancid lard and the resulting biscuits were bad foods for sure.
I don't know why the people on these forums don't understand that.
Really? Lard, and rancid lard at that is your argument against "bad" foods?
Edit: wait - was this written in the invisible sarcasm font?.... i cant tell. =/0 -
This is a classic semantic discussion.
Some people use "bad foods" to mean "not helpful toward my goals" or "foods I should eat in limited quantities" or "foods not positively associated with better health outcomes in longitudinal studies."
Others see it as meaning "foods that would be bad for a person's health in any quantity and which I should not eat." (That's how I understand it.)
Some find it helpful to use the term to encourage themselves to eat a more healthful diet (that includes some "bad" foods). Others find it unhelpful or actively harmful, as it encourages them to feel bad or ashamed if they desire a so-called "bad" food or fail to think logically about the effects if they consume a "bad food" (i.e., oh no, I failed).
Given this, no one will convince anyone -- we are arguing about what "bad food" means.
Therefore, I'd argue that a chocolate chip cookie might fit both my first definition of "bad food" above (although I personally don't think that's a sensible definition of "bad"), and NOT fit the second (the definition I use).
So we aren't really arguing about chocolate chip cookies or whether one can eat them in the context of a healthful balanced diet. We are arguing about what "bad" means.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I have no medical reason not to eat any food, I still maintain that there are bad and good foods. I have never seen anything on this site or elsewhere to make me think otherwise.
Examples and rationale?
I think "itos" food group is a good enough example, along with other junk food, of bad foods. Good foods would be those associated with improved health - vegetables, fruits, nuts, lean meats, fish/seafood, etc.
Ok, what is 'itos'? I'm not connecting that with anything.
And 'junk' food means different things to different people. I always term it as high-calorie/low-nutrient foods. That doesn't make those foods 'bad', it just means you need to limit how much you eat.
Without dinner.Bad foods should be spanked, and sent to their rooms.
"itos" came from the OP. Bad is an opinion. IMO junk food is indeed bad food.0 -
A few reactions to the responses before I let this one go:
-Apologies for the spelling errors; I was typing quickly.
-I agree with everyone who says that people need to learn to eat the same foods they intend to maintain with. I have eliminated some of these foods that don't work from me from my diet. I used to love hostess snacks as a teenager; but I have been able to abstain from these for 35 years without issue. Similarly, if I were just shopping for myself, I would have no trouble skipping the salty snack aisle. (During my adult life I have probably been "ito free" for about 20 or so years of it.) But I shop for others, including an 18 and a 13 year-old step son who enjoy the occasional chip or pretzel. I see no reason to impose my food values on them as they are quite moderate in their consumption. Once they grow up and move out, I don't think I will ever buy any of that any more.
-One point I thought I was making is that certain foods make me MUCH hungrier after I eat them. I don't expect full satiety from a small snack.
-I think the moralistic tone about willpower and "bad behavior" is misguided. Many snack foods are engineered to be craved. The makers utilize sophisticated research techniques to find the right combination of salt, sugar, fat, crunch, dissolve rate, so as to reach what flavor researchers refer to as the "bliss point." I think this is as much an attribute of food design as it is an attribute of the eater. But, since everyone is different, I think some are impacted more than others.
-I have gone through long periods of excellent maintenance-between seven and eight years in a row a couple times. My own experience is that while ANY kind of calorie deficit leads to successful weight loss, but I will fail at some point in maintenance if I go to certain foods-especially when I am not training for a marathon, ultra-bicycle race etc.....It admit that this is possible that this is only true for me and very few others. People seemed to miss my statement about people being different....
-My tone was not intended to seem hostile. I apologize if it came off that way. People disagree; I am just giving an opinion based upon my experiences...
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These deadly mushrooms are bad foods:
Cheetos are delicious.0 -
I understand that this does not apply to everyone. But I think we need to be careful about telling people they can succeed while eating everything they like to eat, because there are people for whom this generalization is simply not true.
It's pretty trendy right now to pretend what we eat doesn't matter. I honestly think food industry advertising and sponsorship plays a big part of this belief. We were a lot thinner when we all knew the right and wrong way to eat.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing what works instead of faffing about with an everything in moderation mentality.0 -
-I think the moralistic tone about willpower and "bad behavior" is misguided. Many snack foods are engineered to be craved. The makers utilize sophisticated research techniques to find the right combination of salt, sugar, fat, crunch, dissolve rate, so as to reach what flavor researchers refer to as the "bliss point." I think this is as much an attribute of food design as it is an attribute of the eater. But, since everyone is different, I think some are impacted more than others.
This is silly.
By this logic you could argue that I'm engineering the chili recipe that I'm constantly tweeking to reach the "bliss point."
Don't blame a food for your lack of self control because it tastes good.0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »These deadly mushrooms are bad foods:
Why would you consider poisonous mushrooms "food"? Why not just put a picture of tacks and nails up there and call them bad food?0 -
MommyMeggo wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I have no medical reason not to eat any food, I still maintain that there are bad and good foods. I have never seen anything on this site or elsewhere to make me think otherwise.
You are absolutely right. I agree whole-heartedly.
My grandmother used to cook for us a lot. One day, after her sense of smell had deteriorated quite a bit, she invited us over for dinner. Steak and gravy with homemade biscuits - one of my favorite meals that my grandmother prepared. When we sat down to eat, the biscuits smelled......off. My mom told us kids not to eat them just yet. My mom went snooping in my grandmother's kitchen and discovered that the lard my grandmother had used to make the biscuits had gone rancid.
That rancid lard and the resulting biscuits were bad foods for sure.
I don't know why the people on these forums don't understand that.
Really? Lard, and rancid lard at that is your argument against "bad" foods?
Edit: wait - was this written in the invisible sarcasm font?.... i cant tell. =/
I think you may be onto something.....
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Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »
-I think the moralistic tone about willpower and "bad behavior" is misguided. Many snack foods are engineered to be craved. The makers utilize sophisticated research techniques to find the right combination of salt, sugar, fat, crunch, dissolve rate, so as to reach what flavor researchers refer to as the "bliss point." I think this is as much an attribute of food design as it is an attribute of the eater. But, since everyone is different, I think some are impacted more than others.
This is silly.
By this logic you could argue that I'm engineering the chili recipe that I'm constantly tweeking to reach the "bliss point."
Don't blame a food for your lack of self control because it tastes good.
The purpose of cooking IS to engineer foods to make them taste good. Of course! For that matter, I would expect a food manufacturer to do research to determine what makes their food "crave-able". I do think that one side effect of this is that some foods become much easier to overeat....
The term "bliss point" was coined by the food industry-NOT ME. The process I described is theirs; I didn't make it up.
Are people on this board so hostile because they are hungry all the time?0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »
-I think the moralistic tone about willpower and "bad behavior" is misguided. Many snack foods are engineered to be craved. The makers utilize sophisticated research techniques to find the right combination of salt, sugar, fat, crunch, dissolve rate, so as to reach what flavor researchers refer to as the "bliss point." I think this is as much an attribute of food design as it is an attribute of the eater. But, since everyone is different, I think some are impacted more than others.
This is silly.
By this logic you could argue that I'm engineering the chili recipe that I'm constantly tweeking to reach the "bliss point."
Don't blame a food for your lack of self control because it tastes good.
The purpose of cooking IS to engineer foods to make them taste good. Of course! For that matter, I would expect a food manufacturer to do research to determine what makes their food "crave-able". I do think that one side effect of this is that some foods become much easier to overeat....
The term "bliss point" was coined by the food industry-NOT ME. The process I described is theirs; I didn't make it up.
Are people on this board so hostile because they are hungry all the time?
Nope, hostile because some can eat anything, and have the self control not to overeat, not because food is either "bad" or "good", but some of us found our way to moderation, portion control and not eating more calories than we burn.
In order for this to work long term, that is what has to be done to maintain.
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Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »
-I think the moralistic tone about willpower and "bad behavior" is misguided. Many snack foods are engineered to be craved. The makers utilize sophisticated research techniques to find the right combination of salt, sugar, fat, crunch, dissolve rate, so as to reach what flavor researchers refer to as the "bliss point." I think this is as much an attribute of food design as it is an attribute of the eater. But, since everyone is different, I think some are impacted more than others.
This is silly.
By this logic you could argue that I'm engineering the chili recipe that I'm constantly tweeking to reach the "bliss point."
Don't blame a food for your lack of self control because it tastes good.
The purpose of cooking IS to engineer foods to make them taste good. Of course! For that matter, I would expect a food manufacturer to do research to determine what makes their food "crave-able". I do think that one side effect of this is that some foods become much easier to overeat....
The term "bliss point" was coined by the food industry-NOT ME. The process I described is theirs; I didn't make it up.
Are people on this board so hostile because they are hungry all the time?
Not hostile, just trying to point out what a ridiculous argument that is.
The reason why I and many others on these boards try to dispel the "bad foods" argument is because it is the diet as a whole that is important. For example, you probably think of broccoli as a "good food". However, if I've only got a couple hundred calories left and I'm short on protein for the day, then steaming some broccoli and eating it is not going to be very beneficial to me in the context of my diet for the rest of that day. Likewise, if I've met my protein requirements and ate my veggies, but have some calories leftover and am short on carbs and fats, then something like Oreos would really not be a bad choice when looking at what I ate that day.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »These deadly mushrooms are bad foods:
Why would you consider poisonous mushrooms "food"? Why not just put a picture of tacks and nails up there and call them bad food?
Wow, thanks - I never thought about that!
These upholstery nails are bad foods:
Cheetos are delicious.0
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