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Ultra-processed foods study
Replies
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »It does suggest that a strategy of demonising sugar or ultra processed food will be effective for some people. "Reduce the crap" strategies - even if poorly based on actual nutritional knowledge - will result in lower calorie consumption.
But it is also likely that it is part of the issues that then results in yo-yoing, poor food relationship, etc.
The last sentence is my concern.
I do think cutting out easy to access junk food (and non junk food that happens to be super processed) is a good way to cut calories for some, at least in the short term. It's actually what I did back in my early 30s, although I was never a huge consumer of most of the kinds of foods we are talking about. Deciding that I should be a purist about what I ate simply eliminated a lot of the temptation to eat stuff that was just around. It's not because those products were higher cal or tastier than something I could have made (or bought at a nice restaurant that met my then-standards). It's that I simply wasn't going to make them nearly as often as they were on offer, and I ended up mostly just eating at meals (where for me I'm less likely to overeat).
That said, I was able to adjust and overeat even following this plan, over time, especially when I got less active.
AND, maybe I'm an idealist, but I always think that understanding the facts and basing choices on accurate information is so much healthier and better. I don't think I eat a bad diet doing it this way -- I think I actually eat a better diet than when I was more informed by "these foods good, these foods bad" type thinking.0 -
There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »It does suggest that a strategy of demonising sugar or ultra processed food will be effective for some people. "Reduce the crap" strategies - even if poorly based on actual nutritional knowledge - will result in lower calorie consumption.
But it is also likely that it is part of the issues that then results in yo-yoing, poor food relationship, etc.
The last sentence is my concern.
I do think cutting out easy to access junk food (and non junk food that happens to be super processed) is a good way to cut calories for some, at least in the short term. It's actually what I did back in my early 30s, although I was never a huge consumer of most of the kinds of foods we are talking about. Deciding that I should be a purist about what I ate simply eliminated a lot of the temptation to eat stuff that was just around. It's not because those products were higher cal or tastier than something I could have made (or bought at a nice restaurant that met my then-standards). It's that I simply wasn't going to make them nearly as often as they were on offer, and I ended up mostly just eating at meals (where for me I'm less likely to overeat).
That said, I was able to adjust and overeat even following this plan, over time, especially when I got less active.
AND, maybe I'm an idealist, but I always think that understanding the facts and basing choices on accurate information is so much healthier and better. I don't think I eat a bad diet doing it this way -- I think I actually eat a better diet than when I was more informed by "these foods good, these foods bad" type thinking.
I do think that in many cases, completely cutting out certain foods is treating symptoms instead of the causes and can lead to the same problems with the foods you did not cut out or introduced as a result. It's running away from the problem to leave for your future self to deal with.0 -
There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
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I will also note (again) that not all ultra processed foods are the same. I've been bothered since I started MFP that one way I cut calories and met my macros was by eating a lot more meat and other animal products than I used to. I don't plan to become a vegetarian (I am not ethically bothered by eating fish, and not other meat so long as the animal was humanely raised or is game), but I do want to figure out how to adjust my diet to one that's not so reliant on meat/dairy/eggs. As a result, I've been phasing in a number of days without meat (ideally without animal products, but so far I've not done that as well), and have been much more open to experimenting with some of the ultra processed soy and gluten-based meat substitutes than I used to be (and also bought some unsweetened almond milk), and have been relying some on protein powder. I'm also using canned beans because I am much more likely to eat beans (other than soy) if I get canned, and bought baba ghanoush because I didn't have time to make it from scratch and wanted some.
I expect if I keep eating this way I will end up finding alternatives to a lot of these things (for example, making my own cashew milk and baba ghanoush, getting organized enough to use dried beans), and I am not sure what meat subs are considered "ultra processed," although it may be all of them (I have always eaten tofu and tempeh, am trying seitan, and also bought some seasoned soy-based crumbles). The most processed of these (crumbles) are likely something I'd end up making at home (so far, not a fan), similarly.
But all that aside, I don't think that the "ultra processed" nature of these products makes my current diet less healthy than it was -- that's to focus on the label ("ultra processed") vs. what's actually in there. And so far it has not added to the sugar in my diet at all (I'm eating more fruit, too -- that does).0 -
A similar study using barcode scanning backs up the % calories "highly processed (61.0%) foods and beverages"0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »It does suggest that a strategy of demonising sugar or ultra processed food will be effective for some people. "Reduce the crap" strategies - even if poorly based on actual nutritional knowledge - will result in lower calorie consumption.
But it is also likely that it is part of the issues that then results in yo-yoing, poor food relationship, etc.
The last sentence is my concern.
I do think cutting out easy to access junk food (and non junk food that happens to be super processed) is a good way to cut calories for some, at least in the short term. It's actually what I did back in my early 30s, although I was never a huge consumer of most of the kinds of foods we are talking about. Deciding that I should be a purist about what I ate simply eliminated a lot of the temptation to eat stuff that was just around. It's not because those products were higher cal or tastier than something I could have made (or bought at a nice restaurant that met my then-standards). It's that I simply wasn't going to make them nearly as often as they were on offer, and I ended up mostly just eating at meals (where for me I'm less likely to overeat).
That said, I was able to adjust and overeat even following this plan, over time, especially when I got less active.
AND, maybe I'm an idealist, but I always think that understanding the facts and basing choices on accurate information is so much healthier and better. I don't think I eat a bad diet doing it this way -- I think I actually eat a better diet than when I was more informed by "these foods good, these foods bad" type thinking.
I don't think you're an idealist. I think once people know and understand the facts, it is up to them to choose what they want to do with that information when it comes to their own nutrition. I think many, maybe most, would choose to eat better than they did when they didn't know that information.
Some won't, of course. Just like some start/don't give up smoking when they know damn well what damage it can do - thinking here of a friend's husband that persisted in smoking in her room while she was on oxygen even after it was explained numerous times exactly what a lit cigarette at the wrong moment could do. She was on hospice and at home, not at a hospital (unfortunately) where security would have shown him the door.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.0 -
There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would imagine people seeing my shopping cart at Kroger are amazed I'm still alive. I go there for diet soda, some ice cream brands, Oreos and occasionally TastyKake. I go maybe once every couple of months
On the other hand, I'm in Whole Paycheck or Central Market a couple of times a week for vegetables, fruit, meat, fish, dairy, etc. On the whole, those people would think I eat a fabulous diet.
The truth is somewhere between the two. And something tells me I'm not the only one that goes to multiple markets for their food.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »weaversouth wrote: »I disagree that most people "don't eat that much processed food" (I forget who posted that one) but, where I live, in Central Alabama, all you have to do is look at some of the people checking out at Winn-Dixie and look at what they're buying. Aside from running up their grocery bills (and a lot of people here are on "food-stamp-programs" for themselves and their families so there isn't a lot of wiggle-room there) they are not going to get much nutrition out of the stuff they're buying. And, BTW, it doesn't just stop with the people on govt subsidies: I see plenty of people with young kids loading up on the processed stuff and not a lot of fresh vegs or other "ingredients" etc in those carts. I KNOW it seems easier to give the kids a can of Spaghetti-O's than to cook up some pasta and make some of your own sauce, but they probably don't realise that. ANYWAY, it's too bad that we don't still teach "Home Ec" in hs and try and get some sense and knowledge into the heads of the people who will be raising families in a very short time...(and boys should be taking it, as well!!!)
I don't think the pasta rings in Spaghetti-Os are any more processed than a dried pasta would be.
Based on the other processed food thread, I just started to dig into the actual foods shown in table 1 of this study, and find the way the have delineate the foods into "mutually exclusive" to be utterly baffling. Apparently all pasta falls under "unprocessed" and all breads fall under "ultraprocessed." So, white pasta is presented as being healthier than 100% whole grain bread. This is just stupid. And beer and wine are just "processed" while 100% organic grape juice is "ultraprocessed." Again--stupid. Milk is unprocessed, but if you set your milk bucket aside and the cream rises to the top and you skim it, it magically becomes "processed." If you grab a piece of honycomb out of a beehive and eat it--guess what--magically processed! Roots & tubers are unprocessed but if they become a french fry or "potato product" then they are magically ultraprocessed. What if you fry your unprocessed cassava or bacon or eggs (which, ironically, removes the fat)? So much stupid. It burns!0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Heh, I'm the same way, and people could get all kinds of weird ideas depending on the store and time of year.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.
I do live and shop in an area. When I'm at my grocery store, seeing someone's cart, they may be getting their fruits and vegetables at the Farmer's Market like I do. They may be going to a place like Whole Foods for the foods a grocery store doesn't carry like I do. This may be their one monthly trip where they fill the pantry and then they do a weekly trip for fresh foods to add to the more processed stuff (like my mom did, when I was growing up).
Looking at someone's cart gives you a really good idea of what they are buying on that day. And I'm sure they do plan to eat that stuff. But it is a much more problematic way to tell what they're actually eating, how much of it, and what other things they are eating.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.
I do live and shop in an area. When I'm at my grocery store, seeing someone's cart, they may be getting their fruits and vegetables at the Farmer's Market like I do. They may be going to a place like Whole Foods for the foods a grocery store doesn't carry like I do. This may be their one monthly trip where they fill the pantry and then they do a weekly trip for fresh foods to add to the more processed stuff (like my mom did, when I was growing up).
Looking at someone's cart gives you a really good idea of what they are buying on that day. And I'm sure they do plan to eat that stuff. But it is a much more problematic way to tell what they're actually eating, how much of it, and what other things they are eating.
What do suppose the odds are that most people in an area shop the way you do? Pretty slim I'd imagine. Judging by the carts in my area and where we fall on the "healthy states" list, I stand by carts being a decent indicator.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.
I do live and shop in an area. When I'm at my grocery store, seeing someone's cart, they may be getting their fruits and vegetables at the Farmer's Market like I do. They may be going to a place like Whole Foods for the foods a grocery store doesn't carry like I do. This may be their one monthly trip where they fill the pantry and then they do a weekly trip for fresh foods to add to the more processed stuff (like my mom did, when I was growing up).
Looking at someone's cart gives you a really good idea of what they are buying on that day. And I'm sure they do plan to eat that stuff. But it is a much more problematic way to tell what they're actually eating, how much of it, and what other things they are eating.
What do suppose the odds are that most people in an area shop the way you do? Pretty slim I'd imagine. Judging by the carts in my area and where we fall on the "healthy states" list, I stand by carts being a decent indicator.
Where I live the Farmer's Markets are packed on the weekend.
Does everyone shop the way I do? Of course not.
But do *some* people? Yes. And when I'm looking at an individual's cart, I have no idea if that particular person shops the way I do or not.0 -
I guess mainly, based on looking at what is in grocery carts, I'm disturbed by the number of people eating small children. Oddly, no one seems to be talking about this trend, and I've never found the section people are getting them from.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.
I do live and shop in an area. When I'm at my grocery store, seeing someone's cart, they may be getting their fruits and vegetables at the Farmer's Market like I do. They may be going to a place like Whole Foods for the foods a grocery store doesn't carry like I do. This may be their one monthly trip where they fill the pantry and then they do a weekly trip for fresh foods to add to the more processed stuff (like my mom did, when I was growing up).
Looking at someone's cart gives you a really good idea of what they are buying on that day. And I'm sure they do plan to eat that stuff. But it is a much more problematic way to tell what they're actually eating, how much of it, and what other things they are eating.
What do suppose the odds are that most people in an area shop the way you do? Pretty slim I'd imagine. Judging by the carts in my area and where we fall on the "healthy states" list, I stand by carts being a decent indicator.
It depends. I live in a probably more health-conscious than average area where there's a mainstream grocery (Jewel), Trader Joe's, WF, and popular meat market all nearby, and where pretty much everyone I know claims to love the green market(s) and where things like CSAs are popular. I also tend to use the self-service line at the Jewel. If I went by what I see people buy there, I'd assume mostly beer, some ultra processed stuff, even though in the winter I tend to mostly use the Jewel as a place to run in and top off my vegetable and fruit supply. Anyone who formed opinions about either me or my neighbors based on what they saw us buy in line would be wrong (although in different ways). Indeed, I see many of these same people at the green market. (I tend not to look in carts if they aren't right in front of me, but based on TJs and WFs I see people buying quite a mix of stuff, including lots of less processed stuff.)0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.
I do live and shop in an area. When I'm at my grocery store, seeing someone's cart, they may be getting their fruits and vegetables at the Farmer's Market like I do. They may be going to a place like Whole Foods for the foods a grocery store doesn't carry like I do. This may be their one monthly trip where they fill the pantry and then they do a weekly trip for fresh foods to add to the more processed stuff (like my mom did, when I was growing up).
Looking at someone's cart gives you a really good idea of what they are buying on that day. And I'm sure they do plan to eat that stuff. But it is a much more problematic way to tell what they're actually eating, how much of it, and what other things they are eating.
What do suppose the odds are that most people in an area shop the way you do? Pretty slim I'd imagine. Judging by the carts in my area and where we fall on the "healthy states" list, I stand by carts being a decent indicator.
Where I live the Farmer's Markets are packed on the weekend.
Does everyone shop the way I do? Of course not.
But do *some* people? Yes. And when I'm looking at an individual's cart, I have no idea if that particular person shops the way I do or not.
We seem to be talking apples and oranges since I stated quite clearly I was not talking about individuals.0 -
Guilty guilty guilty. I've just recently gotten extremely hooked on cheezits. Happy to find out they have a few vitamins and protein. But it go harder and harder to add them in my macro because I started abusing them. Congrats to all the folk who know how to live their lives without living on overprocessed items. I have a lot of work to do. The main thing is to get my az back in the kitchen0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.
I do live and shop in an area. When I'm at my grocery store, seeing someone's cart, they may be getting their fruits and vegetables at the Farmer's Market like I do. They may be going to a place like Whole Foods for the foods a grocery store doesn't carry like I do. This may be their one monthly trip where they fill the pantry and then they do a weekly trip for fresh foods to add to the more processed stuff (like my mom did, when I was growing up).
Looking at someone's cart gives you a really good idea of what they are buying on that day. And I'm sure they do plan to eat that stuff. But it is a much more problematic way to tell what they're actually eating, how much of it, and what other things they are eating.
What do suppose the odds are that most people in an area shop the way you do? Pretty slim I'd imagine. Judging by the carts in my area and where we fall on the "healthy states" list, I stand by carts being a decent indicator.
It depends. I live in a probably more health-conscious than average area where there's a mainstream grocery (Jewel), Trader Joe's, WF, and popular meat market all nearby, and where pretty much everyone I know claims to love the green market(s) and where things like CSAs are popular. I also tend to use the self-service line at the Jewel. If I went by what I see people buy there, I'd assume mostly beer, some ultra processed stuff, even though in the winter I tend to mostly use the Jewel as a place to run in and top off my vegetable and fruit supply. Anyone who formed opinions about either me or my neighbors based on what they saw us buy in line would be wrong (although in different ways). Indeed, I see many of these same people at the green market. (I tend not to look in carts if they aren't right in front of me, but based on TJs and WFs I see people buying quite a mix of stuff, including lots of less processed stuff.)
So, seeing all these carts at all these stores gives you no indication at all of how people in your area eat? How do you know it's a health-conscious area?0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.
I do live and shop in an area. When I'm at my grocery store, seeing someone's cart, they may be getting their fruits and vegetables at the Farmer's Market like I do. They may be going to a place like Whole Foods for the foods a grocery store doesn't carry like I do. This may be their one monthly trip where they fill the pantry and then they do a weekly trip for fresh foods to add to the more processed stuff (like my mom did, when I was growing up).
Looking at someone's cart gives you a really good idea of what they are buying on that day. And I'm sure they do plan to eat that stuff. But it is a much more problematic way to tell what they're actually eating, how much of it, and what other things they are eating.
What do suppose the odds are that most people in an area shop the way you do? Pretty slim I'd imagine. Judging by the carts in my area and where we fall on the "healthy states" list, I stand by carts being a decent indicator.
It depends. I live in a probably more health-conscious than average area where there's a mainstream grocery (Jewel), Trader Joe's, WF, and popular meat market all nearby, and where pretty much everyone I know claims to love the green market(s) and where things like CSAs are popular. I also tend to use the self-service line at the Jewel. If I went by what I see people buy there, I'd assume mostly beer, some ultra processed stuff, even though in the winter I tend to mostly use the Jewel as a place to run in and top off my vegetable and fruit supply. Anyone who formed opinions about either me or my neighbors based on what they saw us buy in line would be wrong (although in different ways). Indeed, I see many of these same people at the green market. (I tend not to look in carts if they aren't right in front of me, but based on TJs and WFs I see people buying quite a mix of stuff, including lots of less processed stuff.)Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.
I do live and shop in an area. When I'm at my grocery store, seeing someone's cart, they may be getting their fruits and vegetables at the Farmer's Market like I do. They may be going to a place like Whole Foods for the foods a grocery store doesn't carry like I do. This may be their one monthly trip where they fill the pantry and then they do a weekly trip for fresh foods to add to the more processed stuff (like my mom did, when I was growing up).
Looking at someone's cart gives you a really good idea of what they are buying on that day. And I'm sure they do plan to eat that stuff. But it is a much more problematic way to tell what they're actually eating, how much of it, and what other things they are eating.
What do suppose the odds are that most people in an area shop the way you do? Pretty slim I'd imagine. Judging by the carts in my area and where we fall on the "healthy states" list, I stand by carts being a decent indicator.
It depends. I live in a probably more health-conscious than average area where there's a mainstream grocery (Jewel), Trader Joe's, WF, and popular meat market all nearby, and where pretty much everyone I know claims to love the green market(s) and where things like CSAs are popular. I also tend to use the self-service line at the Jewel. If I went by what I see people buy there, I'd assume mostly beer, some ultra processed stuff, even though in the winter I tend to mostly use the Jewel as a place to run in and top off my vegetable and fruit supply. Anyone who formed opinions about either me or my neighbors based on what they saw us buy in line would be wrong (although in different ways). Indeed, I see many of these same people at the green market. (I tend not to look in carts if they aren't right in front of me, but based on TJs and WFs I see people buying quite a mix of stuff, including lots of less processed stuff.)
So, seeing all these carts at all these stores gives you no indication at all of how people in your area eat? How do you know it's a health-conscious area?
Same as @lemurcat. And I know it's a health conscious area because we have a high proportion of people making a deliberate attempt to exercise. Not just gym sign-ups, but actually going to one and/or participating in outdoor activities like running, walking, bicycling, sculling, etc. We're also an island of relative skinniness in the state.
All of the 'heathy' restaurants and groceries end up in my area, and I don't think that's a coincidence.
Now whether many of those people shop the way I do, I have no idea. I would think many go to several different groceries if only because Whole Paycheck is expensive if you're not happy with the house brand. Plus, their housewares and cleaning items are non-existent or non-functional. And Central Market - holy Moses. For some items, it stands in an expensive league all it's own, but for others it's fine. And still no basic housewares/cleaning supplies.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »It does suggest that a strategy of demonising sugar or ultra processed food will be effective for some people. "Reduce the crap" strategies - even if poorly based on actual nutritional knowledge - will result in lower calorie consumption.
But it is also likely that it is part of the issues that then results in yo-yoing, poor food relationship, etc.
The last sentence is my concern.
I do think cutting out easy to access junk food (and non junk food that happens to be super processed) is a good way to cut calories for some, at least in the short term. It's actually what I did back in my early 30s, although I was never a huge consumer of most of the kinds of foods we are talking about. Deciding that I should be a purist about what I ate simply eliminated a lot of the temptation to eat stuff that was just around. It's not because those products were higher cal or tastier than something I could have made (or bought at a nice restaurant that met my then-standards). It's that I simply wasn't going to make them nearly as often as they were on offer, and I ended up mostly just eating at meals (where for me I'm less likely to overeat).
That said, I was able to adjust and overeat even following this plan, over time, especially when I got less active.
AND, maybe I'm an idealist, but I always think that understanding the facts and basing choices on accurate information is so much healthier and better. I don't think I eat a bad diet doing it this way -- I think I actually eat a better diet than when I was more informed by "these foods good, these foods bad" type thinking.
I think there is a lot of truth here. I have relaxed on my good food/bad food thoughts a lot with reading posts here. I still tend to limit a lot of types of processed food though. I found as I ate less processed food I got more sensitive to the sodium in it and have found I don't enjoy the taste as much anymore.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.
I do live and shop in an area. When I'm at my grocery store, seeing someone's cart, they may be getting their fruits and vegetables at the Farmer's Market like I do. They may be going to a place like Whole Foods for the foods a grocery store doesn't carry like I do. This may be their one monthly trip where they fill the pantry and then they do a weekly trip for fresh foods to add to the more processed stuff (like my mom did, when I was growing up).
Looking at someone's cart gives you a really good idea of what they are buying on that day. And I'm sure they do plan to eat that stuff. But it is a much more problematic way to tell what they're actually eating, how much of it, and what other things they are eating.
What do suppose the odds are that most people in an area shop the way you do? Pretty slim I'd imagine. Judging by the carts in my area and where we fall on the "healthy states" list, I stand by carts being a decent indicator.
It depends. I live in a probably more health-conscious than average area where there's a mainstream grocery (Jewel), Trader Joe's, WF, and popular meat market all nearby, and where pretty much everyone I know claims to love the green market(s) and where things like CSAs are popular. I also tend to use the self-service line at the Jewel. If I went by what I see people buy there, I'd assume mostly beer, some ultra processed stuff, even though in the winter I tend to mostly use the Jewel as a place to run in and top off my vegetable and fruit supply. Anyone who formed opinions about either me or my neighbors based on what they saw us buy in line would be wrong (although in different ways). Indeed, I see many of these same people at the green market. (I tend not to look in carts if they aren't right in front of me, but based on TJs and WFs I see people buying quite a mix of stuff, including lots of less processed stuff.)
So, seeing all these carts at all these stores gives you no indication at all of how people in your area eat? How do you know it's a health-conscious area?
The fact I talk to my neighbors, the kinds of marketing that local food-related businesses use, the types of businesses in general (lots of exercise and sports related ones, lots of opportunities for local group runs), the fact that obesity is pretty rare and people are big into biking and running and bringing their kids to active play and sports, stuff like that.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.
I do live and shop in an area. When I'm at my grocery store, seeing someone's cart, they may be getting their fruits and vegetables at the Farmer's Market like I do. They may be going to a place like Whole Foods for the foods a grocery store doesn't carry like I do. This may be their one monthly trip where they fill the pantry and then they do a weekly trip for fresh foods to add to the more processed stuff (like my mom did, when I was growing up).
Looking at someone's cart gives you a really good idea of what they are buying on that day. And I'm sure they do plan to eat that stuff. But it is a much more problematic way to tell what they're actually eating, how much of it, and what other things they are eating.
What do suppose the odds are that most people in an area shop the way you do? Pretty slim I'd imagine. Judging by the carts in my area and where we fall on the "healthy states" list, I stand by carts being a decent indicator.
Where I live the Farmer's Markets are packed on the weekend.
Does everyone shop the way I do? Of course not.
But do *some* people? Yes. And when I'm looking at an individual's cart, I have no idea if that particular person shops the way I do or not.
We seem to be talking apples and oranges since I stated quite clearly I was not talking about individuals.
In order to draw your conclusions, aren't you looking at individual carts?0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.
I do live and shop in an area. When I'm at my grocery store, seeing someone's cart, they may be getting their fruits and vegetables at the Farmer's Market like I do. They may be going to a place like Whole Foods for the foods a grocery store doesn't carry like I do. This may be their one monthly trip where they fill the pantry and then they do a weekly trip for fresh foods to add to the more processed stuff (like my mom did, when I was growing up).
Looking at someone's cart gives you a really good idea of what they are buying on that day. And I'm sure they do plan to eat that stuff. But it is a much more problematic way to tell what they're actually eating, how much of it, and what other things they are eating.
What do suppose the odds are that most people in an area shop the way you do? Pretty slim I'd imagine. Judging by the carts in my area and where we fall on the "healthy states" list, I stand by carts being a decent indicator.
Where I live the Farmer's Markets are packed on the weekend.
Does everyone shop the way I do? Of course not.
But do *some* people? Yes. And when I'm looking at an individual's cart, I have no idea if that particular person shops the way I do or not.
We seem to be talking apples and oranges since I stated quite clearly I was not talking about individuals.
In order to draw your conclusions, aren't you looking at individual carts?
Looking at all the carts. Some individually, some not, depending on how they line up in my eyesight. But either way taking the information as a whole, not individually.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.
I do live and shop in an area. When I'm at my grocery store, seeing someone's cart, they may be getting their fruits and vegetables at the Farmer's Market like I do. They may be going to a place like Whole Foods for the foods a grocery store doesn't carry like I do. This may be their one monthly trip where they fill the pantry and then they do a weekly trip for fresh foods to add to the more processed stuff (like my mom did, when I was growing up).
Looking at someone's cart gives you a really good idea of what they are buying on that day. And I'm sure they do plan to eat that stuff. But it is a much more problematic way to tell what they're actually eating, how much of it, and what other things they are eating.
What do suppose the odds are that most people in an area shop the way you do? Pretty slim I'd imagine. Judging by the carts in my area and where we fall on the "healthy states" list, I stand by carts being a decent indicator.
Where I live the Farmer's Markets are packed on the weekend.
Does everyone shop the way I do? Of course not.
But do *some* people? Yes. And when I'm looking at an individual's cart, I have no idea if that particular person shops the way I do or not.
We seem to be talking apples and oranges since I stated quite clearly I was not talking about individuals.
In order to draw your conclusions, aren't you looking at individual carts?
Looking at all the carts. Some individually, some not, depending on how they line up in my eyesight. But either way taking the information as a whole, not individually.
But for each of those individual carts that are making up the whole, you have no idea what else they are eating and buying . . . that's my point. Combining a bunch of individual carts into one conclusion is still based on individual carts.
I get that you trust it as a way to draw conclusions. I'm saying that based on what I know of my shopping habits and what I know of the shopping habits of my family, friends, co-workers, and neighbors, I wouldn't draw conclusions based on that.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.
I do live and shop in an area. When I'm at my grocery store, seeing someone's cart, they may be getting their fruits and vegetables at the Farmer's Market like I do. They may be going to a place like Whole Foods for the foods a grocery store doesn't carry like I do. This may be their one monthly trip where they fill the pantry and then they do a weekly trip for fresh foods to add to the more processed stuff (like my mom did, when I was growing up).
Looking at someone's cart gives you a really good idea of what they are buying on that day. And I'm sure they do plan to eat that stuff. But it is a much more problematic way to tell what they're actually eating, how much of it, and what other things they are eating.
What do suppose the odds are that most people in an area shop the way you do? Pretty slim I'd imagine. Judging by the carts in my area and where we fall on the "healthy states" list, I stand by carts being a decent indicator.
Where I live the Farmer's Markets are packed on the weekend.
Does everyone shop the way I do? Of course not.
But do *some* people? Yes. And when I'm looking at an individual's cart, I have no idea if that particular person shops the way I do or not.
We seem to be talking apples and oranges since I stated quite clearly I was not talking about individuals.
In order to draw your conclusions, aren't you looking at individual carts?
Looking at all the carts. Some individually, some not, depending on how they line up in my eyesight. But either way taking the information as a whole, not individually.
But for each of those individual carts that are making up the whole, you have no idea what else they are eating and buying . . . that's my point. Combining a bunch of individual carts into one conclusion is still based on individual carts.
I get that you trust it as a way to draw conclusions. I'm saying that based on what I know of my shopping habits and what I know of the shopping habits of my family, friends, co-workers, and neighbors, I wouldn't draw conclusions based on that.
Statistics back up my conclusions so I guess I'm just lucky to live in a area that doesn't have a lot of shopping options.
Though if I did, I'm not sure it would matter as long as I saw a representative selection of carts from the various options. It's pretty safe to assume that most of the food bought will be consumed. So, if the majority of food in the majority of carts is ultra-processed food, I'd still put my money on that area eating a high % of u-p foods.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.
I do live and shop in an area. When I'm at my grocery store, seeing someone's cart, they may be getting their fruits and vegetables at the Farmer's Market like I do. They may be going to a place like Whole Foods for the foods a grocery store doesn't carry like I do. This may be their one monthly trip where they fill the pantry and then they do a weekly trip for fresh foods to add to the more processed stuff (like my mom did, when I was growing up).
Looking at someone's cart gives you a really good idea of what they are buying on that day. And I'm sure they do plan to eat that stuff. But it is a much more problematic way to tell what they're actually eating, how much of it, and what other things they are eating.
What do suppose the odds are that most people in an area shop the way you do? Pretty slim I'd imagine. Judging by the carts in my area and where we fall on the "healthy states" list, I stand by carts being a decent indicator.
Where I live the Farmer's Markets are packed on the weekend.
Does everyone shop the way I do? Of course not.
But do *some* people? Yes. And when I'm looking at an individual's cart, I have no idea if that particular person shops the way I do or not.
We seem to be talking apples and oranges since I stated quite clearly I was not talking about individuals.
In order to draw your conclusions, aren't you looking at individual carts?
Looking at all the carts. Some individually, some not, depending on how they line up in my eyesight. But either way taking the information as a whole, not individually.
But for each of those individual carts that are making up the whole, you have no idea what else they are eating and buying . . . that's my point. Combining a bunch of individual carts into one conclusion is still based on individual carts.
I get that you trust it as a way to draw conclusions. I'm saying that based on what I know of my shopping habits and what I know of the shopping habits of my family, friends, co-workers, and neighbors, I wouldn't draw conclusions based on that.
Statistics back up my conclusions so I guess I'm just lucky to live in a area that doesn't have a lot of shopping options.
Though if I did, I'm not sure it would matter as long as I saw a representative selection of carts from the various options. It's pretty safe to assume that most of the food bought will be consumed. So, if the majority of food in the majority of carts is ultra-processed food, I'd still put my money on that area eating a high % of u-p foods.
I'd also bet that a higher percentage of fresh foods purchased do not get eaten than ultra-processed, because fresh has a much shorter shelf life.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »weaversouth wrote: »I disagree that most people "don't eat that much processed food" (I forget who posted that one) but, where I live, in Central Alabama, all you have to do is look at some of the people checking out at Winn-Dixie and look at what they're buying. Aside from running up their grocery bills (and a lot of people here are on "food-stamp-programs" for themselves and their families so there isn't a lot of wiggle-room there) they are not going to get much nutrition out of the stuff they're buying. And, BTW, it doesn't just stop with the people on govt subsidies: I see plenty of people with young kids loading up on the processed stuff and not a lot of fresh vegs or other "ingredients" etc in those carts. I KNOW it seems easier to give the kids a can of Spaghetti-O's than to cook up some pasta and make some of your own sauce, but they probably don't realise that. ANYWAY, it's too bad that we don't still teach "Home Ec" in hs and try and get some sense and knowledge into the heads of the people who will be raising families in a very short time...(and boys should be taking it, as well!!!)
I don't think the pasta rings in Spaghetti-Os are any more processed than a dried pasta would be.
Yes, the pasta rings in Spaghetti-Os are more processed. They are cooked and canned.
When I make pasta and sauce, I don't add HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP or COTTONSEED or SOY OIL.
http://www.campbellfoodservice.com/details.aspx?code=1299
I hadn't had Spaghetti-Os in decades but tried them last year to humor my OH. I thought they were awful - nothing like my regular pasta and sauce. (Usually I use canned tomatoes and veggies, but sometimes I will use a jar of Newman's sauce.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.
I would add that looking at someone's cart is a really unreliable way to know what they're eating. I shop at a couple of different places. If you look at my grocery cart in the summer (when I get all my vegetables at the farmer's market), you would conclude that my diet is horrifyingly low in vegetables and fruit. If you look in my basket at Whole Foods, you would think I'm a vegan that lives on special vegan products (because I buy all my regular food for cheaper at the grocery store and only use Whole Foods for the stuff I can't get elsewhere).
Maybe the parent behind me at the grocery store does feed her kid frozen pizza without vegetables every night. Or maybe this is her mid-week stock-up shop and she's just picking up the frozen pizza because it's a crazy week and her fridge is already full of salad greens so she doesn't need any more. I don't know. That's why I refrain from forming an opinion on something that I don't know enough about.
This is certainly true on an individual level. Looking in my buggy would give a skewed idea of my diet since most of my vegetables and fruit are not store bought. It might also look like we are pescatarian since on most trips the only meat we buy is fish/seafood.
But when you live and shop in an area you see all the buggies on every trip. And it gives you a pretty good idea of how most people in your area eat. Looking at the roadside on garbage pickup day can also confirm this when you see multiple bags full of ultra-processed food packages.
I do live and shop in an area. When I'm at my grocery store, seeing someone's cart, they may be getting their fruits and vegetables at the Farmer's Market like I do. They may be going to a place like Whole Foods for the foods a grocery store doesn't carry like I do. This may be their one monthly trip where they fill the pantry and then they do a weekly trip for fresh foods to add to the more processed stuff (like my mom did, when I was growing up).
Looking at someone's cart gives you a really good idea of what they are buying on that day. And I'm sure they do plan to eat that stuff. But it is a much more problematic way to tell what they're actually eating, how much of it, and what other things they are eating.
What do suppose the odds are that most people in an area shop the way you do? Pretty slim I'd imagine. Judging by the carts in my area and where we fall on the "healthy states" list, I stand by carts being a decent indicator.
Where I live the Farmer's Markets are packed on the weekend.
Does everyone shop the way I do? Of course not.
But do *some* people? Yes. And when I'm looking at an individual's cart, I have no idea if that particular person shops the way I do or not.
We seem to be talking apples and oranges since I stated quite clearly I was not talking about individuals.
In order to draw your conclusions, aren't you looking at individual carts?
Looking at all the carts. Some individually, some not, depending on how they line up in my eyesight. But either way taking the information as a whole, not individually.
But for each of those individual carts that are making up the whole, you have no idea what else they are eating and buying . . . that's my point. Combining a bunch of individual carts into one conclusion is still based on individual carts.
I get that you trust it as a way to draw conclusions. I'm saying that based on what I know of my shopping habits and what I know of the shopping habits of my family, friends, co-workers, and neighbors, I wouldn't draw conclusions based on that.
Statistics back up my conclusions so I guess I'm just lucky to live in a area that doesn't have a lot of shopping options.
Though if I did, I'm not sure it would matter as long as I saw a representative selection of carts from the various options. It's pretty safe to assume that most of the food bought will be consumed. So, if the majority of food in the majority of carts is ultra-processed food, I'd still put my money on that area eating a high % of u-p foods.
If I lived in an area like mine, with lots of different shopping options, and I knew there was a popular WF (technically 2, as I am exactly 1 mile from 2 different ones) and various other grocery stores and green market and meat market and fish market and that they were popular in the area and then decided because I mostly shop in the 7-11 and saw a lot of people buying ultra processed junk food that everyone bought ultra processed junk food, that would be a mistake on my part.
Anyway, I don't doubt the results of this study (the interpretation, maybe), and no one said "most people" don't buy a lot of ultra processed stuff (and I stand by my statement that many do not), but what someone in AL observes some other people in her neighborhood buying doesn't seem all that relevant to anything. No more than my neighborhood being health conscious means that obesity is not a problem in the US.0 -
Processed foods aren't necessarily unhealthy, but it's hard to know what you're really getting with it. Yes I eat processed foods because they're easy & yummy, but I'm trying to make smarter choices.
Ideally life would be like the garden of Eden where everything was good for eating- except you know, maybe that one tree they say will kill you if you eat from it.
My personal concerns with processed foods:
1. Origin- multi ingredient foods rarely state point of origin. Many mainstream foodstuffs are imported from places with less quality control and more environmental pollutants. Example: fancy organic chocolate can be high in lead because it's grown in areas where gasoline is still leaded. The smog falls out of the air on to the cocoa beans.
2. Additives- FDA doesn't require "food processing aids" be revealed in ingredient lists. That includes defoamers, catalysts, clarifying agents / filter, bleaching agents, washing agents and hair / peeling, Staff plucking and waxing, ion exchange resins, agents freezing on contact to cooling agents, drying agents / anti-caking, enzymes, agents of acidification, alkalinization or neutralizing agents, flocculants and coagulants, biocides, preventatives and extraction solvents. Yuck!
3. Transport- foods may not have been kept properly to prevent increased bacterial growth. Shipping containers are often fumigated with toxins that can contaminate food.
4. Packaging- cans do leach toxins into food, especially those cooked in can. Plastic containers can leach toxins if exposed to heat.
5. Handling- more hands/machines on the food=more opportunities for contamination, especially if ingredients from several sources are combined into a large batch then reportioned back into smaller servings (like commercially ground beef patties).
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