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Ultra-processed foods study

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Replies

  • amusedmonkeyamusedmonkey Posts: 9,674Member Member Posts: 9,674Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    I think this is probably true many times. But, by using a term ultra-processed instead of processed we could take that tool from them.

    If people would just define terms at the beginning, it would be helpful. Much as I disagree with your "clean eating" thing, I like that I understand (to some degree) what you mean by it and where you are coming from (and that you are not all or nothing).

    I am confused by the term "ultra processed" too, but I think it has potential and is less broad than processed (which does include many standard things like frozen veg and cottage cheese, that I used to avoid when weird about eating natural, but which I think are helpful for someone trying to eat a more nutritious or weight loss oriented diet).

    With ultra processed, I'm curious how high quality restaurant meals, the frozen paleo or BB meals discussed upthread, and some vegan staples like tempeh or seitan fit in. And I don't see how protein powder isn't ultra processed.

    Also, if store bought ice cream that doesn't contain lots of additives would still be ultra processed (or bakery baked goods) -- and they both contribute to easy weight gain due to availability of high cal foods, IMO -- then how are home baked baked goods different? It seems weird to call a home baked pie "ultra processed," but of course it is high cal and has ingredients like processed sugar (any sucrose is) and refined flour and butter.

    Ultra-processed has a known and clear definition: foods that contain items that are generally derived from foods in a way that changes the structure of the food (example hydrogenation) or synthesized in labs in an industrial setting (example artificial flavors) in a way that is hard for a home user to replicate. Where it gets murky is when someone says "processed" and lumps in whatever they see fit into that category without any rules then calls it bad. Frozen vegetables are actually considered processed, but they are called "minimally processed".

    Protein powder is definitely ultra processed. Canned foods and bread are plain old "processed".
    edited March 2016
  • Need2Exerc1seNeed2Exerc1se Posts: 13,589Member Member Posts: 13,589Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Agreed. I became overweight through long hours at a sedentary job and way too many very fine meals that were far from ultra-processed. I've never eaten large amounts of that kind of food. It is easy to consume too many calories through Little Debbie snack cakes and the like, but you can do it just as easily at places like Morton's and nice Italian restaurants. What I see being judged most in this thread are working class shopping habits and poverty. Keep on snooping and feeling superior if it makes you feel better about your own life, folks. Some people need that I suppose.

    I think this is right on, although I'm not convinced the "processed" slam isn't supposed to extend to any restaurant meal. (I originally got fat because of long hours and a workplace that paid for/required lots of meals at fancy restaurants too. Not that one must get fat in that situation, but I handled it poorly.)
    Yes, I was also thinking that in this case restaurant food could potentially be considered processed.

    How could anyone lump "restaurant food" into a category? Are you talking a burger and fries from McDonald's or homemade hummus and pita bread from the Greek place down the street? Sushi and edamame or fried chicken fingers dipped in mustard flavored goo and onion rings? Meat lovers pizza from Pizza Hut or local roast chicken and a salad?
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    I think this is probably true many times. But, by using a term ultra-processed instead of processed we could take that tool from them.

  • ForecasterJasonForecasterJason Posts: 2,582Member Member Posts: 2,582Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Agreed. I became overweight through long hours at a sedentary job and way too many very fine meals that were far from ultra-processed. I've never eaten large amounts of that kind of food. It is easy to consume too many calories through Little Debbie snack cakes and the like, but you can do it just as easily at places like Morton's and nice Italian restaurants. What I see being judged most in this thread are working class shopping habits and poverty. Keep on snooping and feeling superior if it makes you feel better about your own life, folks. Some people need that I suppose.

    I think this is right on, although I'm not convinced the "processed" slam isn't supposed to extend to any restaurant meal. (I originally got fat because of long hours and a workplace that paid for/required lots of meals at fancy restaurants too. Not that one must get fat in that situation, but I handled it poorly.)
    Yes, I was also thinking that in this case restaurant food could potentially be considered processed.

    How could anyone lump "restaurant food" into a category? Are you talking a burger and fries from McDonald's or homemade hummus and pita bread from the Greek place down the street? Sushi and edamame or fried chicken fingers dipped in mustard flavored goo and onion rings? Meat lovers pizza from Pizza Hut or local roast chicken and a salad?
    That's why I said "could potentially" to account for the wide range of restaurant food options available.

  • sunnybeaches105sunnybeaches105 Posts: 2,846Member Member Posts: 2,846Member Member
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    I think this is probably true many times. But, by using a term ultra-processed instead of processed we could take that tool from them.

    “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”
  • Gianfranco_RGianfranco_R Posts: 1,297Member Member Posts: 1,297Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Actually, epidemiology tells us that the consumption of ultra-processed foods is positively associated with the increased prevalence of obesity.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24667658
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029821
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25804833
    Of course this is just correlation, and doesn't mean that highly processed foods are obesogenic per se. But considering that they are, by definition, a nutritionally poor choice, I see no reason to "stand up" for them.

    Depends on the definition. (Which is covered in earlier posts in this thread or maybe the other ultraprocessed food thread--I only recently realized there were two separate ones.)

    the study mentioned in the OP has a pretty clear definition:
    "Ultra-processed foods were defined as industrial formulations which, besides salt, sugar, oils and fats, include substances not used in culinary preparations, in particular additives used to imitate sensorial qualities of minimally processed foods and their culinary preparations" so, yes, definitely nutritionally poor.
    edited March 2016
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Actually, epidemiology tells us that the consumption of ultra-processed foods is positively associated with the increased prevalence of obesity.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24667658
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029821
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25804833
    Of course this is just correlation, and doesn't mean that highly processed foods are obesogenic per se. But considering that they are, by definition, a nutritionally poor choice, I see no reason to "stand up" for them.

    Depends on the definition. (Which is covered in earlier posts in this thread or maybe the other ultraprocessed food thread--I only recently realized there were two separate ones.)

    the study mentioned in the OP has a pretty clear definition:
    "Ultra-processed foods were defined as industrial formulations which, besides salt, sugar, oils and fats, include substances not used in culinary preparations, in particular additives used to imitate sensorial qualities of minimally processed foods and their culinary preparations" so, yes, definitely nutritionally poor.

    There's nothing in that statement that means the foods are nutritionally poor.
  • sunnybeaches105sunnybeaches105 Posts: 2,846Member Member Posts: 2,846Member Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Actually, epidemiology tells us that the consumption of ultra-processed foods is positively associated with the increased prevalence of obesity.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24667658
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029821
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25804833
    Of course this is just correlation, and doesn't mean that highly processed foods are obesogenic per se. But considering that they are, by definition, a nutritionally poor choice, I see no reason to "stand up" for them.

    Depends on the definition. (Which is covered in earlier posts in this thread or maybe the other ultraprocessed food thread--I only recently realized there were two separate ones.)

    the study mentioned in the OP has a pretty clear definition:
    "Ultra-processed foods were defined as industrial formulations which, besides salt, sugar, oils and fats, include substances not used in culinary preparations, in particular additives used to imitate sensorial qualities of minimally processed foods and their culinary preparations" so, yes, definitely nutritionally poor.

    There's nothing in that statement that means the foods are nutritionally poor.

    Most protein powders would be included in that definition, as well as energy gels and drinks. Used where needed they're very helpful.
  • The_EnginerdThe_Enginerd Posts: 3,924Member Member Posts: 3,924Member Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Actually, epidemiology tells us that the consumption of ultra-processed foods is positively associated with the increased prevalence of obesity.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24667658
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029821
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25804833
    Of course this is just correlation, and doesn't mean that highly processed foods are obesogenic per se. But considering that they are, by definition, a nutritionally poor choice, I see no reason to "stand up" for them.

    Depends on the definition. (Which is covered in earlier posts in this thread or maybe the other ultraprocessed food thread--I only recently realized there were two separate ones.)

    the study mentioned in the OP has a pretty clear definition:
    "Ultra-processed foods were defined as industrial formulations which, besides salt, sugar, oils and fats, include substances not used in culinary preparations, in particular additives used to imitate sensorial qualities of minimally processed foods and their culinary preparations" so, yes, definitely nutritionally poor.

    There's nothing in that statement that means the foods are nutritionally poor.

    Where does my Greek yogurt fall in their category? gufnmrkuoigy.jpg

    It also has Nitrogen. The Food babe told me they pump it into planes, and now they are putting it right into foods!
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Actually, epidemiology tells us that the consumption of ultra-processed foods is positively associated with the increased prevalence of obesity.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24667658
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029821
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25804833
    Of course this is just correlation, and doesn't mean that highly processed foods are obesogenic per se. But considering that they are, by definition, a nutritionally poor choice, I see no reason to "stand up" for them.

    Depends on the definition. (Which is covered in earlier posts in this thread or maybe the other ultraprocessed food thread--I only recently realized there were two separate ones.)

    the study mentioned in the OP has a pretty clear definition:
    "Ultra-processed foods were defined as industrial formulations which, besides salt, sugar, oils and fats, include substances not used in culinary preparations, in particular additives used to imitate sensorial qualities of minimally processed foods and their culinary preparations" so, yes, definitely nutritionally poor.

    There's nothing in that statement that means the foods are nutritionally poor.

    Most protein powders would be included in that definition, as well as energy gels and drinks. Used where needed they're very helpful.
    senecarr wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Actually, epidemiology tells us that the consumption of ultra-processed foods is positively associated with the increased prevalence of obesity.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24667658
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029821
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25804833
    Of course this is just correlation, and doesn't mean that highly processed foods are obesogenic per se. But considering that they are, by definition, a nutritionally poor choice, I see no reason to "stand up" for them.

    Depends on the definition. (Which is covered in earlier posts in this thread or maybe the other ultraprocessed food thread--I only recently realized there were two separate ones.)

    the study mentioned in the OP has a pretty clear definition:
    "Ultra-processed foods were defined as industrial formulations which, besides salt, sugar, oils and fats, include substances not used in culinary preparations, in particular additives used to imitate sensorial qualities of minimally processed foods and their culinary preparations" so, yes, definitely nutritionally poor.

    There's nothing in that statement that means the foods are nutritionally poor.

    Where does my Greek yogurt fall in their category? gufnmrkuoigy.jpg

    It also has Nitrogen. The Food babe told me they pump it into planes, and now they are putting it right into foods!

    :) Pretty close to statements I was tempted to make. Somehow, if there is a response, I feel it will be something about protein powder and greek yogurt not being an attempt to taste like some whole food, therefore it doesn't meet the definition.
  • amusedmonkeyamusedmonkey Posts: 9,674Member Member Posts: 9,674Member Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Actually, epidemiology tells us that the consumption of ultra-processed foods is positively associated with the increased prevalence of obesity.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24667658
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029821
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25804833
    Of course this is just correlation, and doesn't mean that highly processed foods are obesogenic per se. But considering that they are, by definition, a nutritionally poor choice, I see no reason to "stand up" for them.

    Depends on the definition. (Which is covered in earlier posts in this thread or maybe the other ultraprocessed food thread--I only recently realized there were two separate ones.)

    the study mentioned in the OP has a pretty clear definition:
    "Ultra-processed foods were defined as industrial formulations which, besides salt, sugar, oils and fats, include substances not used in culinary preparations, in particular additives used to imitate sensorial qualities of minimally processed foods and their culinary preparations" so, yes, definitely nutritionally poor.

    There's nothing in that statement that means the foods are nutritionally poor.

    Where does my Greek yogurt fall in their category? gufnmrkuoigy.jpg

    It also has Nitrogen. The Food babe told me they pump it into planes, and now they are putting it right into foods!

    Yes. This is ultra processed. On top of that it has nitrogen. You're gonna die and I'm not. My yogurt is better than yours!


    b6fvfagrmuin.png

  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    I think this is probably true many times. But, by using a term ultra-processed instead of processed we could take that tool from them.

    If people would just define terms at the beginning, it would be helpful. Much as I disagree with your "clean eating" thing, I like that I understand (to some degree) what you mean by it and where you are coming from (and that you are not all or nothing).

    I am confused by the term "ultra processed" too, but I think it has potential and is less broad than processed (which does include many standard things like frozen veg and cottage cheese, that I used to avoid when weird about eating natural, but which I think are helpful for someone trying to eat a more nutritious or weight loss oriented diet).

    With ultra processed, I'm curious how high quality restaurant meals, the frozen paleo or BB meals discussed upthread, and some vegan staples like tempeh or seitan fit in. And I don't see how protein powder isn't ultra processed.

    Also, if store bought ice cream that doesn't contain lots of additives would still be ultra processed (or bakery baked goods) -- and they both contribute to easy weight gain due to availability of high cal foods, IMO -- then how are home baked baked goods different? It seems weird to call a home baked pie "ultra processed," but of course it is high cal and has ingredients like processed sugar (any sucrose is) and refined flour and butter.

    Any term that doesn't have an "official" definition (by that I mean can be found in a dictionary or encyclopedia) is going to be variable from person to person. Heck, even dictionary terms are sometimes hotly debated in these forums.

    I would consider most of the things you mention to be ultra-processed with the exception of restaurant food. I think that is too broad a topic to put a stamp on. It's kind of like saying soup or pizza. I have a vague idea of what the food is but I really have no idea about the food contents.

    Cool. And some of that food is probably helpful for weight loss/maintenance and some is not.
    But quite frankly I find trying to fit every food into nice neat little boxes (terms) a tedious endeavor. I take general broad statements to be just that. Non-specific and broad.

    Well, agreed, but that's why I argue with claims that "processed foods" make us fat. On the whole I feel like you and I agree more than not (annoying as you may find me), and you and I both think some processed foods are helpful for weight loss, so I think it's odd you support claims that processed food are the tool of the devil or whatever lisawinning4losing is on about.
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    I think this is probably true many times. But, by using a term ultra-processed instead of processed we could take that tool from them.

    If people would just define terms at the beginning, it would be helpful. Much as I disagree with your "clean eating" thing, I like that I understand (to some degree) what you mean by it and where you are coming from (and that you are not all or nothing).

    I am confused by the term "ultra processed" too, but I think it has potential and is less broad than processed (which does include many standard things like frozen veg and cottage cheese, that I used to avoid when weird about eating natural, but which I think are helpful for someone trying to eat a more nutritious or weight loss oriented diet).

    With ultra processed, I'm curious how high quality restaurant meals, the frozen paleo or BB meals discussed upthread, and some vegan staples like tempeh or seitan fit in. And I don't see how protein powder isn't ultra processed.

    Also, if store bought ice cream that doesn't contain lots of additives would still be ultra processed (or bakery baked goods) -- and they both contribute to easy weight gain due to availability of high cal foods, IMO -- then how are home baked baked goods different? It seems weird to call a home baked pie "ultra processed," but of course it is high cal and has ingredients like processed sugar (any sucrose is) and refined flour and butter.

    Ultra-processed has a known and clear definition: foods that contain items that are generally derived from foods in a way that changes the structure of the food (example hydrogenation) or synthesized in labs in an industrial setting (example artificial flavors) in a way that is hard for a home user to replicate. Where it gets murky is when someone says "processed" and lumps in whatever they see fit into that category without any rules then calls it bad. Frozen vegetables are actually considered processed, but they are called "minimally processed".

    Protein powder is definitely ultra processed. Canned foods and bread are plain old "processed".

    I know I could look it up, but do you mind posting the definition for discussion?
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    I think this is probably true many times. But, by using a term ultra-processed instead of processed we could take that tool from them.

    If people would just define terms at the beginning, it would be helpful. Much as I disagree with your "clean eating" thing, I like that I understand (to some degree) what you mean by it and where you are coming from (and that you are not all or nothing).

    I am confused by the term "ultra processed" too, but I think it has potential and is less broad than processed (which does include many standard things like frozen veg and cottage cheese, that I used to avoid when weird about eating natural, but which I think are helpful for someone trying to eat a more nutritious or weight loss oriented diet).

    With ultra processed, I'm curious how high quality restaurant meals, the frozen paleo or BB meals discussed upthread, and some vegan staples like tempeh or seitan fit in. And I don't see how protein powder isn't ultra processed.

    Also, if store bought ice cream that doesn't contain lots of additives would still be ultra processed (or bakery baked goods) -- and they both contribute to easy weight gain due to availability of high cal foods, IMO -- then how are home baked baked goods different? It seems weird to call a home baked pie "ultra processed," but of course it is high cal and has ingredients like processed sugar (any sucrose is) and refined flour and butter.

    Ultra-processed has a known and clear definition: foods that contain items that are generally derived from foods in a way that changes the structure of the food (example hydrogenation) or synthesized in labs in an industrial setting (example artificial flavors) in a way that is hard for a home user to replicate. Where it gets murky is when someone says "processed" and lumps in whatever they see fit into that category without any rules then calls it bad. Frozen vegetables are actually considered processed, but they are called "minimally processed".

    Protein powder is definitely ultra processed. Canned foods and bread are plain old "processed".

    Also, I think someone pointed out that bread = not ultra processed under the definition being used and pancakes = ultra processed which is weird given that I rarely bother to make bread (I don't like it enough) but eat it in the context of healthy (IMO) restaurant options, but do make pancakes from scratch or from high quality ingredients. I don't think the pancakes are in reality more processed.
  • Need2Exerc1seNeed2Exerc1se Posts: 13,589Member Member Posts: 13,589Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    I think this is probably true many times. But, by using a term ultra-processed instead of processed we could take that tool from them.

    If people would just define terms at the beginning, it would be helpful. Much as I disagree with your "clean eating" thing, I like that I understand (to some degree) what you mean by it and where you are coming from (and that you are not all or nothing).

    I am confused by the term "ultra processed" too, but I think it has potential and is less broad than processed (which does include many standard things like frozen veg and cottage cheese, that I used to avoid when weird about eating natural, but which I think are helpful for someone trying to eat a more nutritious or weight loss oriented diet).

    With ultra processed, I'm curious how high quality restaurant meals, the frozen paleo or BB meals discussed upthread, and some vegan staples like tempeh or seitan fit in. And I don't see how protein powder isn't ultra processed.

    Also, if store bought ice cream that doesn't contain lots of additives would still be ultra processed (or bakery baked goods) -- and they both contribute to easy weight gain due to availability of high cal foods, IMO -- then how are home baked baked goods different? It seems weird to call a home baked pie "ultra processed," but of course it is high cal and has ingredients like processed sugar (any sucrose is) and refined flour and butter.

    Any term that doesn't have an "official" definition (by that I mean can be found in a dictionary or encyclopedia) is going to be variable from person to person. Heck, even dictionary terms are sometimes hotly debated in these forums.

    I would consider most of the things you mention to be ultra-processed with the exception of restaurant food. I think that is too broad a topic to put a stamp on. It's kind of like saying soup or pizza. I have a vague idea of what the food is but I really have no idea about the food contents.

    Cool. And some of that food is probably helpful for weight loss/maintenance and some is not.
    But quite frankly I find trying to fit every food into nice neat little boxes (terms) a tedious endeavor. I take general broad statements to be just that. Non-specific and broad.

    Well, agreed, but that's why I argue with claims that "processed foods" make us fat. On the whole I feel like you and I agree more than not (annoying as you may find me), and you and I both think some processed foods are helpful for weight loss, so I think it's odd you support claims that processed food are the tool of the devil or whatever lisawinning4losing is on about.

    I don't support any claim that processed foods are the tool of anyone other than food companies. I agreed that I think people often pretend not to know what is meant by 'processed foods' purely for the sake of argument.
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Actually, epidemiology tells us that the consumption of ultra-processed foods is positively associated with the increased prevalence of obesity.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24667658
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029821
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25804833
    Of course this is just correlation, and doesn't mean that highly processed foods are obesogenic per se. But considering that they are, by definition, a nutritionally poor choice, I see no reason to "stand up" for them.

    Depends on the definition. (Which is covered in earlier posts in this thread or maybe the other ultraprocessed food thread--I only recently realized there were two separate ones.)

    the study mentioned in the OP has a pretty clear definition:
    "Ultra-processed foods were defined as industrial formulations which, besides salt, sugar, oils and fats, include substances not used in culinary preparations, in particular additives used to imitate sensorial qualities of minimally processed foods and their culinary preparations" so, yes, definitely nutritionally poor.

    So could you answer my specific questions? I want to know if I eat ultra processed foods or not!
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    I think this is probably true many times. But, by using a term ultra-processed instead of processed we could take that tool from them.

    If people would just define terms at the beginning, it would be helpful. Much as I disagree with your "clean eating" thing, I like that I understand (to some degree) what you mean by it and where you are coming from (and that you are not all or nothing).

    I am confused by the term "ultra processed" too, but I think it has potential and is less broad than processed (which does include many standard things like frozen veg and cottage cheese, that I used to avoid when weird about eating natural, but which I think are helpful for someone trying to eat a more nutritious or weight loss oriented diet).

    With ultra processed, I'm curious how high quality restaurant meals, the frozen paleo or BB meals discussed upthread, and some vegan staples like tempeh or seitan fit in. And I don't see how protein powder isn't ultra processed.

    Also, if store bought ice cream that doesn't contain lots of additives would still be ultra processed (or bakery baked goods) -- and they both contribute to easy weight gain due to availability of high cal foods, IMO -- then how are home baked baked goods different? It seems weird to call a home baked pie "ultra processed," but of course it is high cal and has ingredients like processed sugar (any sucrose is) and refined flour and butter.

    Any term that doesn't have an "official" definition (by that I mean can be found in a dictionary or encyclopedia) is going to be variable from person to person. Heck, even dictionary terms are sometimes hotly debated in these forums.

    I would consider most of the things you mention to be ultra-processed with the exception of restaurant food. I think that is too broad a topic to put a stamp on. It's kind of like saying soup or pizza. I have a vague idea of what the food is but I really have no idea about the food contents.

    Cool. And some of that food is probably helpful for weight loss/maintenance and some is not.
    But quite frankly I find trying to fit every food into nice neat little boxes (terms) a tedious endeavor. I take general broad statements to be just that. Non-specific and broad.

    Well, agreed, but that's why I argue with claims that "processed foods" make us fat. On the whole I feel like you and I agree more than not (annoying as you may find me), and you and I both think some processed foods are helpful for weight loss, so I think it's odd you support claims that processed food are the tool of the devil or whatever lisawinning4losing is on about.

    I don't support any claim that processed foods are the tool of anyone other than food companies. I agreed that I think people often pretend not to know what is meant by 'processed foods' purely for the sake of argument.

    Okey dokey. I honestly never have a clue what people mean, since I know what I would mean and they seem to mean something different. Which makes me think they just aren't honest, but whatever.
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    I think this is probably true many times. But, by using a term ultra-processed instead of processed we could take that tool from them.

    If people would just define terms at the beginning, it would be helpful. Much as I disagree with your "clean eating" thing, I like that I understand (to some degree) what you mean by it and where you are coming from (and that you are not all or nothing).

    I am confused by the term "ultra processed" too, but I think it has potential and is less broad than processed (which does include many standard things like frozen veg and cottage cheese, that I used to avoid when weird about eating natural, but which I think are helpful for someone trying to eat a more nutritious or weight loss oriented diet).

    With ultra processed, I'm curious how high quality restaurant meals, the frozen paleo or BB meals discussed upthread, and some vegan staples like tempeh or seitan fit in. And I don't see how protein powder isn't ultra processed.

    Also, if store bought ice cream that doesn't contain lots of additives would still be ultra processed (or bakery baked goods) -- and they both contribute to easy weight gain due to availability of high cal foods, IMO -- then how are home baked baked goods different? It seems weird to call a home baked pie "ultra processed," but of course it is high cal and has ingredients like processed sugar (any sucrose is) and refined flour and butter.

    Any term that doesn't have an "official" definition (by that I mean can be found in a dictionary or encyclopedia) is going to be variable from person to person. Heck, even dictionary terms are sometimes hotly debated in these forums.

    I would consider most of the things you mention to be ultra-processed with the exception of restaurant food. I think that is too broad a topic to put a stamp on. It's kind of like saying soup or pizza. I have a vague idea of what the food is but I really have no idea about the food contents.

    Cool. And some of that food is probably helpful for weight loss/maintenance and some is not.
    But quite frankly I find trying to fit every food into nice neat little boxes (terms) a tedious endeavor. I take general broad statements to be just that. Non-specific and broad.

    Well, agreed, but that's why I argue with claims that "processed foods" make us fat. On the whole I feel like you and I agree more than not (annoying as you may find me), and you and I both think some processed foods are helpful for weight loss, so I think it's odd you support claims that processed food are the tool of the devil or whatever lisawinning4losing is on about.

    I think Needs2 was using tool in reference to the definition. That having the term ultra-processed foods to use could avoid the constant arguing about what is processed foods. Instead, we can argue what are ultra-processed foods. I think Needs2 is just happy that washed vegetables seem much harder to wedge into the ultra-processed category.
  • Need2Exerc1seNeed2Exerc1se Posts: 13,589Member Member Posts: 13,589Member Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    I think this is probably true many times. But, by using a term ultra-processed instead of processed we could take that tool from them.

    If people would just define terms at the beginning, it would be helpful. Much as I disagree with your "clean eating" thing, I like that I understand (to some degree) what you mean by it and where you are coming from (and that you are not all or nothing).

    I am confused by the term "ultra processed" too, but I think it has potential and is less broad than processed (which does include many standard things like frozen veg and cottage cheese, that I used to avoid when weird about eating natural, but which I think are helpful for someone trying to eat a more nutritious or weight loss oriented diet).

    With ultra processed, I'm curious how high quality restaurant meals, the frozen paleo or BB meals discussed upthread, and some vegan staples like tempeh or seitan fit in. And I don't see how protein powder isn't ultra processed.

    Also, if store bought ice cream that doesn't contain lots of additives would still be ultra processed (or bakery baked goods) -- and they both contribute to easy weight gain due to availability of high cal foods, IMO -- then how are home baked baked goods different? It seems weird to call a home baked pie "ultra processed," but of course it is high cal and has ingredients like processed sugar (any sucrose is) and refined flour and butter.

    Any term that doesn't have an "official" definition (by that I mean can be found in a dictionary or encyclopedia) is going to be variable from person to person. Heck, even dictionary terms are sometimes hotly debated in these forums.

    I would consider most of the things you mention to be ultra-processed with the exception of restaurant food. I think that is too broad a topic to put a stamp on. It's kind of like saying soup or pizza. I have a vague idea of what the food is but I really have no idea about the food contents.

    Cool. And some of that food is probably helpful for weight loss/maintenance and some is not.
    But quite frankly I find trying to fit every food into nice neat little boxes (terms) a tedious endeavor. I take general broad statements to be just that. Non-specific and broad.

    Well, agreed, but that's why I argue with claims that "processed foods" make us fat. On the whole I feel like you and I agree more than not (annoying as you may find me), and you and I both think some processed foods are helpful for weight loss, so I think it's odd you support claims that processed food are the tool of the devil or whatever lisawinning4losing is on about.

    I think Needs2 was using tool in reference to the definition. That having the term ultra-processed foods to use could avoid the constant arguing about what is processed foods. Instead, we can argue what are ultra-processed foods. I think Needs2 is just happy that washed vegetables seem much harder to wedge into the ultra-processed category.

    Bingo! Washed, peeled, chopped, canned, frozen. All the veggies are good.

    Unless some big green dude pours salty yellow goo on them he wants us to believe is cheese, then we have a debate.
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    senecarr wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    I think this is probably true many times. But, by using a term ultra-processed instead of processed we could take that tool from them.

    If people would just define terms at the beginning, it would be helpful. Much as I disagree with your "clean eating" thing, I like that I understand (to some degree) what you mean by it and where you are coming from (and that you are not all or nothing).

    I am confused by the term "ultra processed" too, but I think it has potential and is less broad than processed (which does include many standard things like frozen veg and cottage cheese, that I used to avoid when weird about eating natural, but which I think are helpful for someone trying to eat a more nutritious or weight loss oriented diet).

    With ultra processed, I'm curious how high quality restaurant meals, the frozen paleo or BB meals discussed upthread, and some vegan staples like tempeh or seitan fit in. And I don't see how protein powder isn't ultra processed.

    Also, if store bought ice cream that doesn't contain lots of additives would still be ultra processed (or bakery baked goods) -- and they both contribute to easy weight gain due to availability of high cal foods, IMO -- then how are home baked baked goods different? It seems weird to call a home baked pie "ultra processed," but of course it is high cal and has ingredients like processed sugar (any sucrose is) and refined flour and butter.

    Any term that doesn't have an "official" definition (by that I mean can be found in a dictionary or encyclopedia) is going to be variable from person to person. Heck, even dictionary terms are sometimes hotly debated in these forums.

    I would consider most of the things you mention to be ultra-processed with the exception of restaurant food. I think that is too broad a topic to put a stamp on. It's kind of like saying soup or pizza. I have a vague idea of what the food is but I really have no idea about the food contents.

    Cool. And some of that food is probably helpful for weight loss/maintenance and some is not.
    But quite frankly I find trying to fit every food into nice neat little boxes (terms) a tedious endeavor. I take general broad statements to be just that. Non-specific and broad.

    Well, agreed, but that's why I argue with claims that "processed foods" make us fat. On the whole I feel like you and I agree more than not (annoying as you may find me), and you and I both think some processed foods are helpful for weight loss, so I think it's odd you support claims that processed food are the tool of the devil or whatever lisawinning4losing is on about.

    I think Needs2 was using tool in reference to the definition. That having the term ultra-processed foods to use could avoid the constant arguing about what is processed foods. Instead, we can argue what are ultra-processed foods. I think Needs2 is just happy that washed vegetables seem much harder to wedge into the ultra-processed category.

    Bingo! Washed, peeled, chopped, canned, frozen. All the veggies are good.

    Unless some big green dude pours salty yellow goo on them he wants us to believe is cheese, then we have a debate.

    Well now you're going to get the thread moved to chit-chat.
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