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Ultra-processed foods study

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  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    So you can see into every obese persons shopping cart in the world???

    LOL obviously I'm talking about the ones I've noticed over many years.

    My niece and daughter used to be check out chicks who spent 8 hours a day looking at peoples grocery items, and it was glaringly obvious to them too.

    I really do not see the point in debating this. It is what it is...

    Do you also believe you have psychic powers because of all the times you remember the phone ringing when you were thinking of someone, but you ignored the incredibly larger number of times it didn't happen? It is called counting the hits and ignoring the misses. It is a fundamental bias. You've probably mentally dismissed every person who was obese or overweight that had healthy food in their cart - you've given them a halo effect based on your presuppositions about dietary effects, leading you to under assess the weight of those that don't fit your stereotyping. There is a reason the plural of anecdote is not data.
  • sunnybeaches105sunnybeaches105 Posts: 2,846Member Member Posts: 2,846Member Member
  • lisawinning4losinglisawinning4losing Posts: 732Member Member Posts: 732Member Member
    This is why obesity and disease are sky rocketing.
  • lisawinning4losinglisawinning4losing Posts: 732Member Member Posts: 732Member Member
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.
  • lisawinning4losinglisawinning4losing Posts: 732Member Member Posts: 732Member Member
    Ew, Spaghetti-O's. That's garbage in a can. Pure toxic waste that should be dumped in the sewer where it can grow mutant ninja turtles.
    edited March 2016
  • amusedmonkeyamusedmonkey Posts: 9,678Member Member Posts: 9,678Member Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.
  • Gianfranco_RGianfranco_R Posts: 1,297Member Member Posts: 1,297Member Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Actually, epidemiology tells us that the consumption of ultra-processed foods is positively associated with the increased prevalence of obesity.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24667658
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029821
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25804833
    Of course this is just correlation, and doesn't mean that highly processed foods are obesogenic per se. But considering that they are, by definition, a nutritionally poor choice, I see no reason to "stand up" for them.
    edited March 2016
  • amusedmonkeyamusedmonkey Posts: 9,678Member Member Posts: 9,678Member Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Actually, epidemiology tells us that the consumption of ultra-processed foods is positively associated with the increased prevalence of obesity.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24667658
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029821
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25804833
    Of course this is just correlation, and doesn't mean that highly processed foods are obesogenic per se. But considering that they are, by definition, a nutritionally poor choice, I see no reason to "stand up" for them.

    Ultra processed foods have a higher calorie density in general, so this makes sense in the absence of calorie control strategies. I'm not standing up for ultra processed foods per se, I have no horse in this race. Making such foods scarce or harder to obtain on a population level could possibly help with the level of obesity in a given population (or not, we don't know what people would replace these foods with), my main issue is relevance. This topic may be relevant as a generalized observation on a population level for a certain population for the purpose of drafting dietary recommendations or something, but not for the people of MFP where (ideally) most calories are accounted for, junk or not. Not to mention the issue of correlation interpreted as causation by many. Samoa, for example, is at the far end of the world obesity spectrum, yet they consume less ultra processed foods by miles than many other countries with higher consumption and lower obesity rates.

    What I'm "standing up" against is this tendency to want to reduce what is essentially a multifactorial issue to a handful of remote correlations (processing, sugar, carbs, fat..etc) in very specific populations then generalizing them for the purpose of "scapegoating and bandaiding", leading to such assumptions that shopping cart contents are accurately representative of a person's weight or that the consumption of these foods "will make you fat" stripped of all context.
  • sunnybeaches105sunnybeaches105 Posts: 2,846Member Member Posts: 2,846Member Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Agreed. I became overweight through long hours at a sedentary job and way too many very fine meals that were far from ultra-processed. I've never eaten large amounts of that kind of food. It is easy to consume too many calories through Little Debbie snack cakes and the like, but you can do it just as easily at places like Morton's and nice Italian restaurants. What I see being judged most in this thread are working class shopping habits and poverty. Keep on snooping and feeling superior if it makes you feel better about your own life, folks. Some people need that I suppose.
    edited March 2016
  • amusedmonkeyamusedmonkey Posts: 9,678Member Member Posts: 9,678Member Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Agreed. I became overweight through long hours at a sedentary job and way too many very fine meals that were far from ultra-processed. I've never eaten large amounts of that kind of food. It is easy to consume too many calories through Little Debbie snack cakes and the like, but you can do it just as easily at places like Morton's and nice Italian restaurants. What I see being judged most in this thread are working class shopping habits and poverty. Keep on snooping and feeling superior if it makes you feel better about your own life, folks. Some people need that I suppose.

    Case in point. Today's lunch is high in calories and not a single "ultra processed" food. The last entry is basically homemade dumplings stuffed with potatoes and cabbage. In fact I did pretty poorly this week calorie-wise and did not lose any weight, but I haven't had anything ultra processed the whole week.

    i3bpv7sp0oyj.png
    edited March 2016
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    Ew, Spaghetti-O's. That's garbage in a can. Pure toxic waste that should be dumped in the sewer where it can grow mutant ninja turtles.

    The turtles eat pizza.
  • ndj1979ndj1979 Posts: 29,021Member Member Posts: 29,021Member Member
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    They are not processed???

    And are you going to source your claim..?
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Actually, epidemiology tells us that the consumption of ultra-processed foods is positively associated with the increased prevalence of obesity.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24667658
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029821
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25804833
    Of course this is just correlation, and doesn't mean that highly processed foods are obesogenic per se. But considering that they are, by definition, a nutritionally poor choice, I see no reason to "stand up" for them.

    Depends on the definition. (Which is covered in earlier posts in this thread or maybe the other ultraprocessed food thread--I only recently realized there were two separate ones.)
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    You say this because you don't want to address the actual points made.

    Again, obviously the nutritional content of food choices matter.

    I don't see why the label "processed" matters at all. I eat a number of foods (as discussed earlier in the thread) that I would describe as processed because I think they are helpful to my goals. These include things like smoked salmon, a purchased salad, tempeh, protein powder. Others may choose such things as the paleo/BB frozen meals that were discussed (that are nutritionally sensible and don't have ingredients one wouldn't add at home, but are still frozen meals). Why does the fact these are "processed" makes them unhealthy?

    If you are talking about something other than processing, please use the correct terminology.

    Again, I think the issue is that high cal foods are so convenient, not that a store bought cookie is more apt to cause weight gain than a homemade one (or than some homemade high cal pork shoulder).
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Agreed. I became overweight through long hours at a sedentary job and way too many very fine meals that were far from ultra-processed. I've never eaten large amounts of that kind of food. It is easy to consume too many calories through Little Debbie snack cakes and the like, but you can do it just as easily at places like Morton's and nice Italian restaurants. What I see being judged most in this thread are working class shopping habits and poverty. Keep on snooping and feeling superior if it makes you feel better about your own life, folks. Some people need that I suppose.

    I think this is right on, although I'm not convinced the "processed" slam isn't supposed to extend to any restaurant meal. (I originally got fat because of long hours and a workplace that paid for/required lots of meals at fancy restaurants too. Not that one must get fat in that situation, but I handled it poorly.)
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Actually, epidemiology tells us that the consumption of ultra-processed foods is positively associated with the increased prevalence of obesity.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24667658
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029821
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25804833
    Of course this is just correlation, and doesn't mean that highly processed foods are obesogenic per se. But considering that they are, by definition, a nutritionally poor choice, I see no reason to "stand up" for them.

    That you fail at levels of analysis doesn't change how human physiology works.
    And no, highly processed foods are not poor nutritional choices by definition. By definition, a highly processed food is one that had a lot of processing done to it. It says nothing about the nutritional content, nor even begins to delve into a complex concept like choice.
    edited March 2016
  • Need2Exerc1seNeed2Exerc1se Posts: 13,589Member Member Posts: 13,589Member Member
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    I think this is probably true many times. But, by using a term ultra-processed instead of processed we could take that tool from them.
  • ForecasterJasonForecasterJason Posts: 2,582Member Member Posts: 2,582Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    There are a few posts around that insist that people know what others eat based on looking at shopping carts, peaking in windows, etc.
    I find this interesting because, in a scientific sense, I don't even know what I eat unless I consult my food logs. Dieticians logging their food even get it wrong by about 25% at first according to at least one study.

    When I peek into obese peoples shopping trolleys, with their obese children toddling along behind, I have never once been surprised in what I see. It's usually obvious why they are obese :(

    It must not be obvious to me. Why?

    Seriously??? Because the majority of their haul is highly processed junk food, and very little if any whole fresh food. You know... The usual weight gain suspects.

    Adults do what you want, but when i see them feeding this stuff to their kids actively contributing to their obesity, it just makes me see red.

    so your observation is based on the .000001% of the population that you happen to see on a certain day in the supermarket?

    If someone saw me on a day that I ran out of talenti and I am stocking up on five different flavors then they would probably assume I am glutton as well....

    Are you obese with obese children??

    Not sure what that has to do with anything ...

    It was the point of my post... When I see obese people in the grocery store, nearly everyday, the contents in their trolley reflects their weight.

    Probably where you live... Where I live, "obese people with obese children" actually have about 80% of their carts in "minimally processed foods" because I live in a culture of home cooking. I'm obese, I've always been MORBIDLY obese, and the amount of processed foods I had from birth till now is probably a one year's worth for someone else somewhere else, obese or not. I probably consume 5 times my previous amount of processed food now that I'm dieting because the packaged calories are convenient. It simply can't be generalized by looking at how people in your neighborhood eat. Obesity is a function of calories, processed or not.

    Agreed. I became overweight through long hours at a sedentary job and way too many very fine meals that were far from ultra-processed. I've never eaten large amounts of that kind of food. It is easy to consume too many calories through Little Debbie snack cakes and the like, but you can do it just as easily at places like Morton's and nice Italian restaurants. What I see being judged most in this thread are working class shopping habits and poverty. Keep on snooping and feeling superior if it makes you feel better about your own life, folks. Some people need that I suppose.

    I think this is right on, although I'm not convinced the "processed" slam isn't supposed to extend to any restaurant meal. (I originally got fat because of long hours and a workplace that paid for/required lots of meals at fancy restaurants too. Not that one must get fat in that situation, but I handled it poorly.)
    Yes, I was also thinking that in this case restaurant food could potentially be considered processed.

  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    I think this is probably true many times. But, by using a term ultra-processed instead of processed we could take that tool from them.

    If people would just define terms at the beginning, it would be helpful. Much as I disagree with your "clean eating" thing, I like that I understand (to some degree) what you mean by it and where you are coming from (and that you are not all or nothing).

    I am confused by the term "ultra processed" too, but I think it has potential and is less broad than processed (which does include many standard things like frozen veg and cottage cheese, that I used to avoid when weird about eating natural, but which I think are helpful for someone trying to eat a more nutritious or weight loss oriented diet).

    With ultra processed, I'm curious how high quality restaurant meals, the frozen paleo or BB meals discussed upthread, and some vegan staples like tempeh or seitan fit in. And I don't see how protein powder isn't ultra processed.

    Also, if store bought ice cream that doesn't contain lots of additives would still be ultra processed (or bakery baked goods) -- and they both contribute to easy weight gain due to availability of high cal foods, IMO -- then how are home baked baked goods different? It seems weird to call a home baked pie "ultra processed," but of course it is high cal and has ingredients like processed sugar (any sucrose is) and refined flour and butter.
    edited March 2016
  • Need2Exerc1seNeed2Exerc1se Posts: 13,589Member Member Posts: 13,589Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Processed foods isn't scary enough, so a new term needed to be invented?

    I've seen numerous posts on MFP use the term "ultra processed food" or ask that others use it. And since some members insist that things like frozen vegetables are "processed food" I think it is a needed term.

    I'm pretty surprised that only 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. I would have guess higher.

    People say that frozen vegetables are "processed" as an argumentative tool, because they don't want to admit that processed foods are causing disease, even though it's pretty clear that they are.

    I think this is probably true many times. But, by using a term ultra-processed instead of processed we could take that tool from them.

    If people would just define terms at the beginning, it would be helpful. Much as I disagree with your "clean eating" thing, I like that I understand (to some degree) what you mean by it and where you are coming from (and that you are not all or nothing).

    I am confused by the term "ultra processed" too, but I think it has potential and is less broad than processed (which does include many standard things like frozen veg and cottage cheese, that I used to avoid when weird about eating natural, but which I think are helpful for someone trying to eat a more nutritious or weight loss oriented diet).

    With ultra processed, I'm curious how high quality restaurant meals, the frozen paleo or BB meals discussed upthread, and some vegan staples like tempeh or seitan fit in. And I don't see how protein powder isn't ultra processed.

    Also, if store bought ice cream that doesn't contain lots of additives would still be ultra processed (or bakery baked goods) -- and they both contribute to easy weight gain due to availability of high cal foods, IMO -- then how are home baked baked goods different? It seems weird to call a home baked pie "ultra processed," but of course it is high cal and has ingredients like processed sugar (any sucrose is) and refined flour and butter.

    Any term that doesn't have an "official" definition (by that I mean can be found in a dictionary or encyclopedia) is going to be variable from person to person. Heck, even dictionary terms are sometimes hotly debated in these forums.

    I would consider most of the things you mention to be ultra-processed with the exception of restaurant food. I think that is too broad a topic to put a stamp on. It's kind of like saying soup or pizza. I have a vague idea of what the food is but I really have no idea about the food contents.

    But quite frankly I find trying to fit every food into nice neat little boxes (terms) a tedious endeavor. I take general broad statements to be just that. Non-specific and broad.
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