20 Rep Squat Program

Jams009

Sweet.

McCloud33

Final day

Squat: 285x13
OHP: 135 5x5
DL: 375x4(.9)

Well I'm calling this the end. My mind finally gave out before my body, which I'm a little disappointed in myself for. I don't know if it was just mentally hitting my goal and not having the drive, not enough sleep, not enough food, not enough recovery...more than likely it's some combination of all of those. I probably should have waited another day before going for a 10lb jump again, but oh well. I might have had 1-2 more *relatively* decent reps, but watching the video back, I was struggling from rep 2 with good form, with the hips coming up a little before the chest, but at least I made it through the program without any back injury or anything else. Friday is going to be a deload day for sure.

I actually got my OHP 5x5 and part of that may have been not completely taxing my CNS right before on the squats. I'd have to go back through my lifting records, but I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've completed 135 5x5...I know I've gotten up to 135, but I think I've never gotten all the reps, so that was a nice surprise this morning.

DL was SOOO close, but my grip gave out at the very top of the last rep.

All in all, I'm extremely pleased with the program. I need to take all of my final measurements, but I know that everything went up from forearms, to calves, and everything in between. My weight was around 181 12 weeks ago and 185 at the beginning of the fist week of the 6 week program, shot up fairly quickly to 190ish over a three week span, but then has held fairly constant eating around 2500-3000 calories/day. I have a BIA scale at home (I know not that accurate) and according to that I'm probably around 18.5%BF...this would put me with roughly an extra 3lbs of lean body mass over the 12 weeks...Which would be nice, but we'll see what it looks like when I start cutting back down. Strictly anecdotally, just looking in the mirror and from my wife's eyes, I don't LOOK that much different from 180lbs so I'm really hoping that it really is added muscle.

Lessons learned:
-I definitely didn't need the 6 week "prep" time that I gave myself, but with the timing of my race and everything, I'm glad I did it. If doing it again, I'd probably go for an extra 1-2 weeks just to acclimate the body to the 20 reps.

-Eat. If you're going to do this, you need to feed yourself. Especially the night before. The last couple of weeks are started doing bigger carb dinners the night before and could totally tell the difference. I've been cutting for so long now and with a lower carb diet, that this took me some getting used to. You may have no trouble with it, but go for the slower digesting carbs that will give you long term energy. In short, eat pasta/rice/etc and not just chocolate cake.

-You can do it. I had serious reservations going in about whether or not I could actually do it. Even going into the last 2 weeks I was doubting it. If you eat, sleep and recover, your body can do this. As I proved today, your mental fortitude might give out first, but trust your body

Pros:
Muscle gain, squat form, strength gain

Especially my form...squatting 3x a week and that many reps in a row, you really grease the groove and get so used to squatting.

Cons:
Other than the last couple of weeks being a mental grind, I don't really have much here. I did miss running which I mostly gave up for the 6 weeks of the program just to make sure I was getting enough recovery.

Thanks especially to @Jorocka She did this program before me and it was nice having someone who had gone through it to spur you on. A few others that have commented from time to time that I value your opinion...tell me what you think @nakedraygun @Willbenchforcupcakes @ovidnine @kelly_e_montana @nossmf @Kr15by @jmule24 @ninerbuff @deadliftsanddonuts

https://youtu.be/_aV4KWe4qT0
https://youtu.be/agFWnDHgteY

Willbenchforcupcakes

Way to go! Just seriously, simply awesome! The only thing I really see is on the last couple reps is that it doesn't look like you are rebracing before you squat. But mad props on making it through!

DeadliftsandDonuts

Congrats on completing the program and hitting your goal! I don't have much to comment on since I have never done a 20 rep squat program and probably never will. Maybe I just don't have your mental strength since I don't like going above 10 reps at most! My current squat 5RM is 395 so for me starting this program with 305x20 squats sounds painful.

Deadlifts look good too, even more impressive looking with all those pretty bumpers instead of regular steel plates.

So what type of program are you going to do next to build upon your 20 rep squat gains?

TR0berts

20 rep Deadlift next?


/notsrs

McCloud33

@Willbenchforcupcakes Thanks! I know those last couple were ugly and that they felt even uglier than they look on video...I really didn't want to hurt something, so that's the main reason I stopped.

@DeadliftsandDonuts I agree that 305x20 sounds painful, but I'm also no where near you on my 5RM LOL. You could always try it and see. If you did a "prep" program kind of like I did for 2 weeks and just started at like 245, went up 10lbs every workout until you got to 305 and then drop back to 5lbs every time...

As far as what I'm doing next...no @TR0berts ...no 20 rep deads! I'm planning on going back on a calorie deficit, start running again on my "off" days and running 5/3/1 again. I really like squatting 3x a week though, so I'll need to play around and see how best to do that on 5/3/1. I have two more (shorter) Spartan races later this summer that I'm going to start training for by running hilly trails, so that will be at least one of my runs during the week. One race will be 3-5 miles and the other 8-10 miles.

JoRocka

Backing up a few comments before you're final write up- Interesting- haven't seen anything about the 10 pound jump- but as you can tell I'm far more conservative. That might have something to do with the fact that as a woman I fail much more quickly- I can work at higher reps closer to my 1 rep max- but failure comes quickly- it's like- it's fine it's fine it's fine- then I"M NOT FINE I"M NOT FINE. So- I think being more conservative is born out of how my body works.


Moving on though- I'm really glad you did 285- is there any reason why you wont' attempt it again? I would encourage you to rest 2-4 days and make another attempt (the programs I have suggest if you fail- take the 2 days between and then attempt again).

I have done that with both runs of the program- I failed 170 I think the first time 4 years ago- and I waited 2-3 days- repeated it and hit it. Then I did 175 and I think I got it and failed 180- or failed 175- but I DEFINITELY faield one- rested- and repeated THEN moved on.

I hit 195 this last time- and then failed 200 twice- and that's how I knew I was tapped.

Very pleased for you that you hit 275- that's really awesome. I know for me it was a huge issue to hit 200 for even 13-15 reps. I was deeply disappointed I didn't get all 20- but meh- I'll run this I think again in the fall.

I half wish I had started a different strength program right away OR not been cutting or- done a significant refeed and then tried something closer to 250 for a single to see how I was holding up. 200 for 13 or whatever it was is still pretty good and would have given me the confidence to nail 250.

But whatever- I know for I'm going to strive to run this once a year. So I'll plan to line this up with my bulk cycle next season. Maybe run bulk Nov- March- do 20 rep from October into November (I don't need to bulk for the first 2-3 weeks)- and then hit sheiko on the way out of the bulk so I carry over the gains.

ALL THE EFFING GAINS_ ALL THE TIME!!!

But Congrats- like I said- I'm deeply pleased for you. I'd like to hear more about your mental state- again for me knowing that was the hardest part- so I'd be interested to see/hear more of how you felt about it- I'm sick like that!!!

McCloud33

JoRocka wrote: »

Backing up a few comments before you're final write up- Interesting- haven't seen anything about the 10 pound jump- but as you can tell I'm far more conservative. That might have something to do with the fact that as a woman I fail much more quickly- I can work at higher reps closer to my 1 rep max- but failure comes quickly- it's like- it's fine it's fine it's fine- then I"M NOT FINE I"M NOT FINE. So- I think being more conservative is born out of how my body works.


Moving on though- I'm really glad you did 285- is there any reason why you wont' attempt it again? I would encourage you to rest 2-4 days and make another attempt (the programs I have suggest if you fail- take the 2 days between and then attempt again).

I have done that with both runs of the program- I failed 170 I think the first time 4 years ago- and I waited 2-3 days- repeated it and hit it. Then I did 175 and I think I got it and failed 180- or failed 175- but I DEFINITELY faield one- rested- and repeated THEN moved on.

I hit 195 this last time- and then failed 200 twice- and that's how I knew I was tapped.

Very pleased for you that you hit 275- that's really awesome. I know for me it was a huge issue to hit 200 for even 13-15 reps. I was deeply disappointed I didn't get all 20- but meh- I'll run this I think again in the fall.

I half wish I had started a different strength program right away OR not been cutting or- done a significant refeed and then tried something closer to 250 for a single to see how I was holding up. 200 for 13 or whatever it was is still pretty good and would have given me the confidence to nail 250.

But whatever- I know for I'm going to strive to run this once a year. So I'll plan to line this up with my bulk cycle next season. Maybe run bulk Nov- March- do 20 rep from October into November (I don't need to bulk for the first 2-3 weeks)- and then hit sheiko on the way out of the bulk so I carry over the gains.

ALL THE EFFING GAINS_ ALL THE TIME!!!

But Congrats- like I said- I'm deeply pleased for you. I'd like to hear more about your mental state- again for me knowing that was the hardest part- so I'd be interested to see/hear more of how you felt about it- I'm sick like that!!!

I read the 10lb jump in several of the online articles...especially if you're only going twice a week on the squat.

The only reason I'm not doing 285 again is because I'm anxious to get back to my run training too. I've said it in several different threads, but I struggle with wanting to be good at everything LOL. I play soccer, volleyball, lift weights, run...I'd LOVE to train for American Ninja Warrior. Just before I started the program I ran that long @ss Spartan race with my brother and didn't exactly know what I was getting into. Now I know and I'm signed up to run in the Elite heat for another mountain course. I want to give myself the next three months to train hard for that with my trail/hill running.

I also think this will be something that I try and run at least once a year, but I'll do it in the fall/winter so that I can bulk and then come January/February, I can cut again and hopefully look good for summer. I have to say that I'm pleasantly surprised with how I look at 190 now compared to where I looked at 190 6 months ago. I can still actually see hints of abs that were completely obscured last time I was at this weight.

So as far as my mental state...here's my best recollection of the program. When I started out I was EXTREMELY anxious about my ability to run the program. You'd followed/commented on some of my other posts where I was struggling with just trying to get more than 10 reps with like 245lbs. Learning to breath under the weight and breaking it up after every 5 reps might have been the biggest thing for me. I have low(er) blood pressure and I would start getting light headed if I tried the higher reps. After the first couple weeks of my "prep" program and figuring out the 5 count then breath system, I was ready to start.

I'm not sure where it came from, but the next real mental hurdle for me was 250. I don't know if from the beginning I thought that's where I was going to stall or what, but that was a rough squat day for me. I'd have to go back through my posts here, but I know there was at least one more where I had a really rough workout where I felt I barely made the 20 reps. The workout right after that was a mental challenge for me. I know you said you've trained to failure on several different programs, so going to failure here wasn't that big of a deal. IT IS FOR ME. I hate failing...at least when I think I'm supposed to do more. If I'm doing the 5x5 program and only get 4 reps, it irks me. I've gotten a little more used to it, but I still don't like it. Anyway, after that one where I felt I almost didn't make it, I was dreading that next workout starting about lunch time the day before. It turned out that we went out for dinner that night, and I ate like a pig. I went in the next morning, almost resigned to failing that set, but around rep 7-8 I was just like, "this isn't as bad as last time...I think I can actually do this". After that I connected the dots with eating big the night before and successful workout and just did that for the last week+ without much mental strain. The last few reps were always hard, but I never thought, "I'm going to die if I try one more"

The last mental hurdle was the one I talked about with 285. I think it was a combination of being so relieved that I got 275 that although I wanted to get 285, I didn't have that drive that I was going to get it no matter what. That and the fact my form "felt" bad so early (in the first 5 reps), once I got past 10 reps I had that internal battle of "do I keep pushing and MAYBE injure myself or just stop"...once I got to rep 13 and it was pretty hard and felt like the worst one form wise, I was just like "screw it...you hit 275, just put it down". Of course the second I racked it I'm screaming at myself internally "what'd you do you pu$$y...you had more" (yes I yell at myself and call myself names...I do this when I'm running as well. It's like my own personal drill sergeant LOL)

Hopefully all of that was what you were looking for. I also had those couple workouts with the groin pull and my tennis elbow never did get better. I just keep working through it.

McCloud33

Just a quick update. I was able to *squeak* out 2 reps at 345 which would put my 1RM at 365+/-. Before I started the program, 275x5 would have given me a 1RM of about 315. So....+50lbs aint too shabby I guess. https://youtu.be/5Sdyfyk1LLY

I'll also add that I'm back running and on a deficit this week, so if I wasn't doing either of those, this might have been higher.

McCloud33

Ok, so I'm going to start this one back up.

I'm back doing the 20 rep program again after about 5 months of other lifting, racing, cutting(unsuccessfully). I actually started a few weeks ago and am back up to 250x20 as of this morning (x24 actually because math is hard ) Felt really good this morning though. Ended up doing it without the safeties because the other two squat racks were taken already. I knew that having done this just a few months ago, I could do 250, so I wasn't too worried about not having it there.

Hit a new rep PR on OHP. I've failed so many times trying to get over the 135lb hump for 5x5 in the last 2+years and I hit that last week finally on Monday, failed 140 5x5(5,5,5,3,0) on Wednesday, but hit 140 this morning. The last rep was a real grind. Also back up to 370x5 on DL as of this morning and that felt pretty strong. 5 months ago I pretty much stalled out at about 375x5 so I'm hoping I can up that in the coming weeks. My plan is to take this through the first week of January. With holiday breaks and such, I'm hoping to hit 300x20 (may be pie in the sky with this one) 400x5 DL and 225x5 on pin press (been using this as my bench trying to increase some bench strength).

https://youtu.be/O6DJBgiaag0

mreichard

I'll be following closely.

I'm doing exactly what I think you are (at lighter weights) --- 20 rep squats plus the other SL stuff. I'm 4 weeks in, and I really feel like it's a great compliment to the 5x5 sets I was doing previously. I'm a total noob, and I've struggled with learning squats. I've felt like switching gears to 20 reps has helped me improve my form and range of motion.

It's funny -- I had reached just 220 in my SL work sets, and I've never tried 225. If all goes very, very well, my 20 rep sets will finish at 220, so my first time ever lifting 225 could be for close to 20 reps (at least that's what I'm hoping). I did 20 x 190 yesterday and felt like I had several more in the tank.

McCloud33

mreichard wrote: »

I'll be following closely.

I'm doing exactly what I think you are (at lighter weights) --- 20 rep squats plus the other SL stuff. I'm 4 weeks in, and I really feel like it's a great compliment to the 5x5 sets I was doing previously. I'm a total noob, and I've struggled with learning squats. I've felt like switching gears to 20 reps has helped me improve my form and range of motion.

It's funny -- I had reached just 220 in my SL work sets, and I've never tried 225. If all goes very, very well, my 20 rep sets will finish at 220, so my first time ever lifting 225 could be for close to 20 reps (at least that's what I'm hoping). I did 20 x 190 yesterday and felt like I had several more in the tank.

As you can see there's like six pages of me going through the process earlier this year if you want to look for tips/tricks/sticking points etc. Feel free to ask any questions too. I'm still fairly new to all of this in the grand scheme of things, but I've learned some stuff over the last 2+years.

Good luck. 20 reps isn't normally for novice lifters, but I found that it really helped with my squat form even as an intermediate lifter the first time. The last couple of weeks can be brutal, but just keep telling yourself that it's only 5lbs more than you did the last time. At least that's how I get through it mentally.

sgt1372

I just reached a 240 1RM squat which was my personal goal of 1.5x my BW, which is 160# but this weight is admittedly at the extreme limit of my physical ability and subjects me to much greater risk of injury.

So, I decided to drop the weight lifted to the 10 rep equivalent of 240 (which is 180) to maintain the same level of effort while also reducing the risk of injury and then increase the weight lifted at increments of 5# or less from there.

20 reps may be too many reps for me but it would allow me to lower the weigh and reduce the risk of injury even further, so I may give it a try.

McCloud33

sgt1372 wrote: »

I just reached a 240 1RM squat which was my personal goal of 1.5x my BW, which is 160# but this weight is admittedly at the extreme limit of my physical ability and subjects me to much greater risk of injury.

So, I decided to drop the weight lifted to the 10 rep equivalent of 240 (which is 180) to maintain the same level of effort while also reducing the risk of injury and then increase the weight lifted at increments of 5# or less from there.

20 reps may be too many reps for me but it would allow me to lower the weigh and reduce the risk of injury even further, so I may give it a try.

What I'm doing is an actual program, not just lowering the weight as to prevent injury. The 20 rep program is where you take your current 5rep max, subtract 90 lbs as your starting weight, do that for 20 reps and then add 5lbs three times a week until you reach your previous 5RM for 20 reps.

It takes a considerable amount of concentration and I would say it's easier to screw up your form and hurt yourself on a higher rep program than a lower one. The more you exert yourself, the harder and harder it gets to keep your form good. This is why I had such a hard time even counting my reps the higher I get.

sgt1372

McCloud33 wrote: »

What I'm doing is an actual program, not just lowering the weight as to prevent injury. The 20 rep program is where you take your current 5rep max, subtract 90 lbs as your starting weight, do that for 20 reps and then add 5lbs three times a week until you reach your previous 5RM for 20 reps.

It takes a considerable amount of concentration and I would say it's easier to screw up your form and hurt yourself on a higher rep program than a lower one. The more you exert yourself, the harder and harder it gets to keep your form good. This is why I had such a hard time even counting my reps the higher I get.

Understood but I've adapted other "programs" successfully for my own needs.

I'm now doing 10x180# in squats w/o breaking form. I planned to increase weights to increase strength from that level, as you are doing in your 20 rep program. So, there really isn't that much difference.

I think 20 reps may be too much for me for the reasons you mention. I'm going to give it a try 20 reps at 144 which = 1RM 240 to see if I can do it as well as 10x180 and, if I so, I'll try that instead.

sgt1372

Ok, i just did a set of SQTs at 1x20x144# (which is equivalent to a 1RM at 240#) without breaking form.

Did them after my warmup sets: 1x10x63, 1x6x113 & 1x3x163. My Safety Squat Yoke bar weighs 63# which accounts for the extra 3#.

The last couple of reps were challenging but I did them. I was totally out of breath - - huffing and puffing at the end - - but it was much less stressful and dangerous for me than doing a single rep at 240.

Also did the SQTs after doing my daily DL routine which currently includes:

Warmup: 1x10x165, 1x6x215 & 1x3x265

1RM lift: 1x1x315

Drop/work sets: 1x3x293, 1x6x270 & 1x9x245 (which are equivalent to 325 1RM).

Was doing the 1RM routine for both DLs and SQTs daily in a split AM/PM routine 5 days a week at the highest prior 1RM for 4 days and a new 1RM at +5 on the 5th day.

Too hard for me to continue doing the 1RM SQT routine., So, I think I'll start using the 20 rep SQT daily instead. The next increase in weight would be 1x20x147=245, which I'll try to do in a couple of days to get back on schedule.

McCloud33

@sgt1372 are you saying you're going to do the 20 squats 5 days a week? This may be one of those things where less is more. If you want to squat 5 days, maybe just go light the other two days. 5 days a week going close to maximum effort is just going to lead to over training...

sgt1372

McCloud33 wrote: »

@sgt1372 are you saying you're going to do the 20 squats 5 days a week?

Yup.

I know what the conventional wisdom is on this but i have already been doing a daily DL and SQT program 5 days/wk (as described for DLs above) without suffering from over-training or exhaustion.

In my view, I'll actually be doing less by going w/20 reps (instead of 1RM) for SQTs because the effort doing 20 reps will (at least in theory) be equal to doing the wt equivalent 1RM and I'll be eliminating the 3 drop/work sets at 3, 6 and 9/10 reps at the1RM +5# wt equivalent as i am doing now. So, it'll really be less work doing 3 low rep/wt warm up sets followed by the 20 rep set than the 1RM routine that I have been doing previously.

Splitting the routine by doing DLs in the AM and SQTs in the PM also allows rest and recovery each day w/o exhaustion.

We'll see how it goes. If it's too much, I'll have no problem cutting back if need be but I don't think it will be a problem for me.

JoRocka

sgt1372 wrote: »

McCloud33 wrote: »

What I'm doing is an actual program, not just lowering the weight as to prevent injury. The 20 rep program is where you take your current 5rep max, subtract 90 lbs as your starting weight, do that for 20 reps and then add 5lbs three times a week until you reach your previous 5RM for 20 reps.

It takes a considerable amount of concentration and I would say it's easier to screw up your form and hurt yourself on a higher rep program than a lower one. The more you exert yourself, the harder and harder it gets to keep your form good. This is why I had such a hard time even counting my reps the higher I get.

Understood but I've adapted other "programs" successfully for my own needs.

I'm now doing 10x180# in squats w/o breaking form. I planned to increase weights to increase strength from that level, as you are doing in your 20 rep program. So, there really isn't that much difference.

I think 20 reps may be too much for me for the reasons you mention. I'm going to give it a try 20 reps at 144 which = 1RM 240 to see if I can do it as well as 10x180 and, if I so, I'll try that instead.

how much are you jumping up each lift?

I think you are misunderstanding a little bit- this program is an actual program- not just something he's doing randomly- he has tweaked it a little bit- but the base model still remains.

And at the heart of this program is the fact you are NOT using your 1RMP to plan- the 20 rep program uses your 5 rep max to work up from.

sgt1372

JoRocka wrote: »

how much are you jumping up each lift?

I think you are misunderstanding a little bit- this program is an actual program- not just something he's doing randomly- he has tweaked it a little bit- but the base model still remains.

And at the heart of this program is the fact you are NOT using your 1RMP to plan- the 20 rep program uses your 5 rep max to work up from.

I understand completely what the OP is doing. It's just not what I want to do.

I use to do SL 5x5 and SL 3x5 but I've been doing a daily 1RM program of my own design with success for DL & SQT (adapted from published programs). I described above the DL program that I am doing this week. It is not a randomly designed program. There is thought, structure and purpose behind it.

Designing a lifting program is not rocket science and I believe that most (if not all) existing programs were "discovered" based on trial & error as tested by the author or by an adaptation of an existing program based on the learned weaknesses or limitations of that program and the specific needs/goals of the person who modified it.

I am in the latter camp. I am not interested in and have no need to set 5x5 as my lifting objective. All strength charts and lift calculators are based on a 1RM lift or equivalent.

So, my main objective is simply to get stronger using the 1RM as the standard of measurement. This is the same whether I do only 1 rep or 20. As long as I am progressively increasing my 1RM (or equivalent) then I am getting stronger. That's all that I care about.

Unlike SL & SS, I do NOT immediately increase the weight after I have lifted a higher weight. I continue to lift at that weight for at least 4 days and only attempt a higher weight at +5# on the 5th day. This allows for developing a foundation of strength upon which to attempt the next higher weight, something that is lacking in SL and SS.

Another important part of my 1RM program are the 3 drop/work sets which are based on the 1RM +5# equivalent. These sets are what actually build the strength to do the lift at the next level, which are also lacking in the SL & SS.

This 1RM program has worked well for me in the DL by helping me to overcome a sticking point at 290 and increasing my 1RM/PR in DL to 315 in just a month. It has also worked well in increasing my 1RM/PR in SQT from 220 to 240 over the same time period.

However, I'm finding it difficult to continue doing the 1RM program for the SQT because the weight at 1RM is just getting too heavy IMO for me to continue to do it safely, which accounts for my interest in the 20 rep program. I should add that I already switched to a 10 rep 1RM equivalent set because of this concern, before thinking about switching to a 20 rep 1RM equivalent set at an even lower weight instead.

Turning to the 20 rep program, my current 1RM/PR for the SQT is 240. According to the Strength Levels calculator, 1x20x144# is the 1RM 240 equivalent, which I did last night and will do again tonight. The 1RM 245 equivalent is 1x20x147 (a 3# increase) which I will try to do the day after tomorrow (my 5th training day this week). If I fail to do the 20x147, I'll just do 20x144 the 1st 4 days and 20x147 the 5th day next week.

The problem I already see with this is that, unlike my 1RM program, there are no drop/work sets to increase the base of strength in order to attempt the next higher weight. I'll have to see if I need to incorporate the drop/work sets w/the 20 rep program or if it's even realistic or practical to do so.

We'll just have to see what happens . . . It's an experiment and will take some trial & error to perfect it according to my needs (assuming it's even possible to do so).

I should also add that I designed my 1RM program and am attempting to adapt the OP'S 20 rep SQT program ONLY for my personal use. I am not suggesting and do not intend that anyone else try to do what I am doing.

I am just conveying my thoughts and experiences on the topic, which may be of interest and value to others in designing a training program of their own.