Sugar-free drinks: the good, the bad and the 'we should be aware'!
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Ronjsteele, that sounded one awful experience you had, so I hope you made a full recovery for the long term. I'm astonished, frankly, at the responses your comment received from some members who should learn some basic online manners, particularly when talking to other members about their health.
I am a major fan of diet drinks but I was just hoping for some alternatives to cans of diet-y fizz!
Will likely never completely recover full pancreas function but still way better then it was 15yrs ago. Thanks. The responses don't surprise me at all. This website is so over medical is almost makes me sick. But it's a weight loss site and I keep that perspective. I try to keep my eyes on CICO and try to stay too much out of the fray. Life is too short and I'm way too busy.
As for you wanting an alternative drink - you might look at some of the more "natural" (put in quotes for a reason) sodas. Zevia comes to mind (sweetened with stevia). I'm not a huge fan of stevia (I don't like the taste) but *if* I feel like something fizzy I will get one of these and it satisfies my hankering without all the nasty chemicals. The grape flavor is pretty good and I don't get a stevia after taste from it. There are a few other brands also worth looking at. Much of it has to do with personal taste and taste bud sensitivity to stevia. You'll usually find these types of sodas in natural health sections of stores (Kroger) or at places like Natural Grocer or Trader Joes.0 -
JanetYellen wrote: »Study makes it sound like those people never drank water.
I wonder if people that never drink water, simply don't focus on exercising and other healthy eating habits.
I can't see someone drinking a diet coke with a kale salad.
More: There are a lot of people that do not drink any daily water
I simply meant the study could be skewed by using these people for the purpose of a good article.
I consume kale (and other greens) with diet soda regularly. Just because *you* can't see something doesn't mean it isn't happening.0 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »Ronjsteele, that sounded one awful experience you had, so I hope you made a full recovery for the long term. I'm astonished, frankly, at the responses your comment received from some members who should learn some basic online manners, particularly when talking to other members about their health.
I am a major fan of diet drinks but I was just hoping for some alternatives to cans of diet-y fizz!
Will likely never completely recover full pancreas function but still way better then it was 15yrs ago. Thanks. The responses don't surprise me at all. This website is so over medical is almost makes me sick. But it's a weight loss site and I keep that perspective. I try to keep my eyes on CICO and try to stay too much out of the fray. Life is too short and I'm way too busy.
As for you wanting an alternative drink - you might look at some of the more "natural" (put in quotes for a reason) sodas. Zevia comes to mind (sweetened with stevia). I'm not a huge fan of stevia (I don't like the taste) but *if* I feel like something fizzy I will get one of these and it satisfies my hankering without all the nasty chemicals. The grape flavor is pretty good and I don't get a stevia after taste from it. There are a few other brands also worth looking at. Much of it has to do with personal taste and taste bud sensitivity to stevia. You'll usually find these types of sodas in natural health sections of stores (Kroger) or at places like Natural Grocer or Trader Joes.
Stevia is still chemicals. Just because something is found in nature rather than synthetic doesn't make it safer. In fact, Stevia is probably the least tested of low/zero calorie sweeteners, and potentially the one with the worst safety record.0 -
Will likely never completely recover full pancreas function but still way better then it was 15yrs ago. Thanks. The responses don't surprise me at all. This website is so over medical is almost makes me sick. But it's a weight loss site and I keep that perspective. I try to keep my eyes on CICO and try to stay too much out of the fray. Life is too short and I'm way too busy.
As for you wanting an alternative drink - you might look at some of the more "natural" (put in quotes for a reason) sodas. Zevia comes to mind (sweetened with stevia). I'm not a huge fan of stevia (I don't like the taste) but *if* I feel like something fizzy I will get one of these and it satisfies my hankering without all the nasty chemicals. The grape flavor is pretty good and I don't get a stevia after taste from it. There are a few other brands also worth looking at. Much of it has to do with personal taste and taste bud sensitivity to stevia. You'll usually find these types of sodas in natural health sections of stores (Kroger) or at places like Natural Grocer or Trader Joes.
Still waiting on the links to those studies.0 -
We should throw vaccines into this mix. Just to get an accurate measure of the BSC quotient.0
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Thank you all very much for the responses and input. Ronjsteele, that sounded one awful experience you had, so I hope you made a full recovery for the long term. I'm astonished, frankly, at the responses your comment received from some members who should learn some basic online manners, particularly when talking to other members about their health.
The reason people responded so strongly is because she is using her experience as an argument to convince others that they shouldn't drink diet drinks. Someone who says "I have an issue with diet drinks personally but can't extrapolate that to others" would not have that kind of response. There's so much misinformation out there, especially around sweeteners, that it's actively harmful to people asking questions about them to give them bad information like "they harmed me, therefore you shouldn't drink them".
The only study in the first link that implies any kind of causal link is the one that has no study actually linked to it, just a claim that some study somewhere says it (the 47% BMI one). I would be interested to see how they "controlled for dieting" - did they simply ask the people if they were currently on a diet while measuring? Did they ask how much of the time between measurements they were on a diet? Did they actually monitor the calories consumed? Did they rely on self-reporting?
This, exactly this, is why it's so dangerous for Ronjsteele to use her experience to tell you that you shouldn't be drinking diet drinks. For some people, eating gluten or chocolate or pecans will cause them to be ill, or need to go to the hospital. This does not mean that you can't eat gluten or chocolate or pecans. Now we've got bad science floating around backed up by anecdotal evidence and future people reading this thread may come away with "well, the science is divided", instead of factual information.0 -
I drink 4-6 cans of diet pop a day, and 2 cups of tea sweetened with splenda each day (3 packets of splenda per cup). I have lost 72# and my waist measurement has gone from 51" to 38.5" over the past 16months.
I do not drink water...maybe 2-3 cups a week? Only diet pop and 2cups hot tea a day. Ive been known to carry a bottle of diet pop when i go for a run, and had my husband meet me at the finish line of my half marathon in nov with a large diet coke from mcdonalds.
I have also had 4 very healthy pregnancies drinking mainly diet pop.0 -
Still waiting on the links to those studies.
The reason I haven't is because it wouldn't matter if I gave you something from the CDC, FDA, etc. you'd still find something wrong with them. I'm a researcher to the extreme of what I'll put into my family's bodies (that happens when you deal with sick kids from XXXXXXXX) and I expect if people truly want to know the truth, they'll go looking for it. Beyond that, I won't waste my time beyond a few sentences. When I actually think posting links will make a difference in how someone thinks, then I do it. Let's be truthful, not a single person who has an opinion, one way or the other, is going to be swayed by anything the other side posts. I can tit for tat all day long but my life is too busy and I have better things to do. Hopefully, OP, got just enough info to send her out researching because that would be my advice to anyone wanting to make changes or know both sides of an argument. Do your own research and come to your own conclusion. That is what it means to be an informed consumer.0 -
Often, being an "extreme researcher" is to your detriment, because it leads you into bad corners of the internet where you read that chocolate makes you lose weight because someone paid a few hundred dollars to put it in a journal somewhere....there will always somewhere be "the other side" supported, for every issue. Especially every health issue. Reading every study as if they're all equally valid and ignoring the lines between mainstream science and fringe is about as helpful as thinking you're near a doctor because you research on WebMD to the extreme.0
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Thank you all very much for the responses and input. Ronjsteele, that sounded one awful experience you had, so I hope you made a full recovery for the long term. I'm astonished, frankly, at the responses your comment received from some members who should learn some basic online manners, particularly when talking to other members about their health.
The reason people responded so strongly is because she is using her experience as an argument to convince others that they shouldn't drink diet drinks. Someone who says "I have an issue with diet drinks personally but can't extrapolate that to others" would not have that kind of response. There's so much misinformation out there, especially around sweeteners, that it's actively harmful to people asking questions about them to give them bad information like "they harmed me, therefore you shouldn't drink them".
The only study in the first link that implies any kind of causal link is the one that has no study actually linked to it, just a claim that some study somewhere says it (the 47% BMI one). I would be interested to see how they "controlled for dieting" - did they simply ask the people if they were currently on a diet while measuring? Did they ask how much of the time between measurements they were on a diet? Did they actually monitor the calories consumed? Did they rely on self-reporting?
This, exactly this, is why it's so dangerous for Ronjsteele to use her experience to tell you that you shouldn't be drinking diet drinks. For some people, eating gluten or chocolate or pecans will cause them to be ill, or need to go to the hospital. This does not mean that you can't eat gluten or chocolate or pecans. Now we've got bad science floating around backed up by anecdotal evidence and future people reading this thread may come away with "well, the science is divided", instead of factual information.
This. Dairy is harmful to one of my kids. That doesn't mean dairy is evil and everyone should cut it out. I have a relative who's severely allergic to tomatoes. For her tomatoes are dangerous. For me, they're delicious. My friend has celiac and eating gluten has sent her to the hospital. I eat gluten with absolutely no issues.
I've personally had no issues with diet soda/artificial sweeteners, I've done a lot of my own research on them, and I've also talked to my doctor about them (she has no issue with me drinking diet soda). So I'll go with what I know works for me
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There's nothing wrong with artificial sweeteners. As for your final question, how about water? You could get expensive water if that makes it more enjoyable.0
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Ironically that thread about the guy who said the eat chocolate to lose weight was actually an intentional 'study' done to prove that medical journalism is not always truthful either.
That being said, the study referenced (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jgs.13376/full) has been hashed and rehashed before. Where are the 'many studies' referenced?
I don't like diet soda, it's just the taste to me, so I'm not a diet soda advocate but some of it is just 'something I heard 5 years ago a friend said". I don't doubt most of us have believed something erroneously that a friend told you or was in an article or in this case a single study, but it doesn't make it true across the board.0 -
Often, being an "extreme researcher" is to your detriment, because it leads you into bad corners of the internet where you read that chocolate makes you lose weight because someone paid a few hundred dollars to put it in a journal somewhere....there will always somewhere be "the other side" supported, for every issue. Especially every health issue. Reading every study as if they're all equally valid and ignoring the lines between mainstream science and fringe is about as helpful as thinking you're near a doctor because you research on WebMD to the extreme.
Yep, if you have 100 pieces of data, you can't weight them all equally. Some studies are going to be constructed better than others or be more relevant to the question at hand. I notice many people who are "extreme researchers" will focus on dubious or discredited studies (or other sources of information). Or they will rely on people who aggregate studies and sometimes misrepresent what the science actually shows (like Food Babe or Mercola).
Data, by itself, isn't enough to make the decision. You have to be able to evaluate the data.0 -
I drank Diet Pepsi most every day while losing 121 pounds, I wonder how that happen. I must of been a miracle!!
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In other words you have nothing. Just your baseless assertions. Because if you had something of substance, you'd post it. And so what if someone found something wrong with something you posted, I mean you're such a great researcher you should be very familiar with what your posting and be able to defend it, unless of course you can't defend it because you realize you're position is weak due to being it all based on confirmation bias.ronjsteele1 wrote: »The reason I haven't is because it wouldn't matter if I gave you something from the CDC, FDA, etc. you'd still find something wrong with them.
But the problem is that you are not a researcher, real researchers spend their days in labs pouring over data for days, weeks, years on end. And thats after spending 8 years in college of rigorous study in their respective field. You got a weekend degree in Google U. Really doesnt compare. Your version of research pretty much boils down to finding websites that agree with what you already believe.ronjsteele1 wrote: »I'm a researcher to the extreme of what I'll put into my family's bodies (that happens when you deal with sick kids from XXXXXXXX) and I expect if people truly want to know the truth, they'll go looking for it..ronjsteele1 wrote: »Beyond that, I won't waste my time beyond a few sentences..
But you spent a fair amount of time already on this thread with a couple of long posts. Why wouldn't you take a few extra seconds to post the requested links to prove your baseless assertions? Oh that's right, because you have none.
Funny, i dont think real researchers "tit for tat." They debate with, you know, with real science.ronjsteele1 wrote: »I can tit for tat all day long but my life is too busy and I have better things to do.
Again, there's that word research. I dont think it means what you think it means. What happens if the "research" your doing is completely wrong, like getting information from pseudoscientific quack websites. Then your conclusion will be incorrect. Or what if the "research" is done your way, you know, where you start with a conclusion and find the information to confirm what you already beleieve. Either way you end up a misinformed cosumer.ronjsteele1 wrote: »Do your own research and come to your own conclusion. That is what it means to be an informed consumer.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »JanetYellen wrote: »Study makes it sound like those people never drank water.
I wonder if people that never drink water, simply don't focus on exercising and other healthy eating habits.
I can't see someone drinking a diet coke with a kale salad.
More: There are a lot of people that do not drink any daily water
I simply meant the study could be skewed by using these people for the purpose of a good article.
I consume kale (and other greens) with diet soda regularly. Just because *you* can't see something doesn't mean it isn't happening.
+1
Currently consuming lettuce-wrapped veggie burger with Cherry Coke Zero.0 -
My own, highly unscientific research shows that jury does seem to be out still on the longer-term effects of artificial sweetners because....yes, far from being exhausted, more research is needed.
Americans have been drinking diet sodas (Diet Rite and Tab) since 1958. If almost 60 years of millions of people consuming it isn't good enough to determine long term effects, then I don't know what will satisfy you.0 -
Often, being an "extreme researcher" is to your detriment, because it leads you into bad corners of the internet where you read that chocolate makes you lose weight because someone paid a few hundred dollars to put it in a journal somewhere....there will always somewhere be "the other side" supported, for every issue. Especially every health issue. Reading every study as if they're all equally valid and ignoring the lines between mainstream science and fringe is about as helpful as thinking you're near a doctor because you research on WebMD to the extreme.
Yep!0 -
I twisted my ankle while out for a walk over the weekend. I recommend everyone give up walking. It's just too dangerous. I've since told my family to stop walking and any thread that gets started here on walking I immediately tell them how dangerous it is. There have definitely been a ton of studies/blogs supporting this, I'm just not going to link any. Anyone that disagrees with me or asks me to provide proof I will accuse of being mean.0
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Thermogenic wrote: »My own, highly unscientific research shows that jury does seem to be out still on the longer-term effects of artificial sweetners because....yes, far from being exhausted, more research is needed.
Americans have been drinking diet sodas (Diet Rite and Tab) since 1958. If almost 60 years of millions of people consuming it isn't good enough to determine long term effects, then I don't know what will satisfy you.
Boom.0 -
blues4miles wrote: »I twisted my ankle while out for a walk over the weekend. I recommend everyone give up walking. It's just too dangerous. I've since told my family to stop walking and any thread that gets started here on walking I immediately tell them how dangerous it is. There have definitely been a ton of studies/blogs supporting this, I'm just not going to link any. Anyone that disagrees with me or asks me to provide proof I will accuse of being mean.
Oh. My. God. Thank you so much for the warning! I was about to walk out to my car to leave work, but now I'm going to stay in my chair and just wheel myself out. I should be okay going down the stairs. Thank you again!0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »blues4miles wrote: »I twisted my ankle while out for a walk over the weekend. I recommend everyone give up walking. It's just too dangerous. I've since told my family to stop walking and any thread that gets started here on walking I immediately tell them how dangerous it is. There have definitely been a ton of studies/blogs supporting this, I'm just not going to link any. Anyone that disagrees with me or asks me to provide proof I will accuse of being mean.
Oh. My. God. Thank you so much for the warning! I was about to walk out to my car to leave work, but now I'm going to stay in my chair and just wheel myself out. I should be okay going down the stairs. Thank you again!
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So any thoughts much appreciated and any low-calories alcohol subsititutes members enjoy for that early evening moment when willpower falters! Cheers to you all.
I love La Croix. No artificial sweeteners. Also there is a brand called deer park (don't know if it's regional, but also 0 calories) that has a lovely raspberry lime flavor, that tastes like a super expensive cocktail to me.0 -
Artificial sugars either good or bad allows one to maintain there sugar addiction without the weight gain- brilliant!0
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Personally I try and stay away from anything diet, including artificial sugars, particularly aspartame .
Sure they may be deemed "safe" , but I just can not make myself take the risk, just in case future studies prove the current ones wrong. Something just doesn't sit right with me when it comes to this stuff.
My gut feeling says stay away, it hasn't steered me wrong yet...0 -
OP -why not try sparkling mineral water or plain soda water if you desire a drink with fizz. You could add a dash of freshly squeezed lemon or lime.
The other interesting way to zest up plain drinking water is to chill it overnight add preferred things like sliced cucumber, berries, mint leaves etc....if artificial sweeteners don't appeal there are many other alternatives for hydration.
Even given a chance plain drinking water takes on a charm of its own after persisting with it, as long as you live in an area that has a good supply....safe yourself heaps in the long run and chances are drinking more water you will look back and wonder how you ever coped being so under hydrated for so long, at least that has been my experience.
As others have said, read up as much as you can an be informed, but choose your sources wisely, make sure they come from reputable scientific studies not blogs and such as there is SO much misinformation and scaremongering agendas abounding out there around these topics it can end up doing a number on your stress levels.0 -
Often, being an "extreme researcher" is to your detriment, because it leads you into bad corners of the internet where you read that chocolate makes you lose weight because someone paid a few hundred dollars to put it in a journal somewhere....there will always somewhere be "the other side" supported, for every issue. Especially every health issue. Reading every study as if they're all equally valid and ignoring the lines between mainstream science and fringe is about as helpful as thinking you're near a doctor because you research on WebMD to the extreme.
This is absolutely untrue. If you people think that only "scientists" can do any worthwhile research you are deluded. I hope to God some day your kid's lives don't depend on you being able to "research" according to your standards. My kid is only alive today because of the amount of research we had to do to save his life. I have ZERO (catch those capitals) trust or confidence in someone just because they have MD, or anything else after their name that indicates they have some sort of science background. It was this momma's research that kept her boy alive and today is living a normal life because "science" yahoos didn't have a freakin' clue how to help him.
And to the JA that said "I have nothing," I feel absolutely no inclination to add diddly squat here. I "have" plenty but adding to this will only prolong a thread I have give way too much time to already. I'm well aware of the waste of time it is to try and teach people anything that have no desire to learn or see the other side. What is terribly clear on these boards is anything considered in the alternative realm is suspect and when I enter that realization, I'm just done. Conk yourselves over the head with your "research" because they often come back to say they were wrong - after they've screwed up people's lives, or better yet, people have died. Vioxx anyone?
So y'all drink your nutrasweet and sucralose, etc. and enjoy it. It is a free country (at least for now). But I certainly hope to God if any of you ever have a loved one's life on the line because idiot "researchers" or doctors give up on them that you have more fortitude and open mindedness then you do now.0 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »Often, being an "extreme researcher" is to your detriment, because it leads you into bad corners of the internet where you read that chocolate makes you lose weight because someone paid a few hundred dollars to put it in a journal somewhere....there will always somewhere be "the other side" supported, for every issue. Especially every health issue. Reading every study as if they're all equally valid and ignoring the lines between mainstream science and fringe is about as helpful as thinking you're near a doctor because you research on WebMD to the extreme.
This is absolutely untrue. If you people think that only "scientists" can do any worthwhile research you are deluded. I hope to God some day your kid's lives don't depend on you being able to "research" according to your standards. My kid is only alive today because of the amount of research we had to do to save his life. I have ZERO (catch those capitals) trust or confidence in someone just because they have MD, or anything else after their name that indicates they have some sort of science background. It was this momma's research that kept her boy alive and today is living a normal life because "science" yahoos didn't have a freakin' clue how to help him.
And to the JA that said "I have nothing," I feel absolutely no inclination to add diddly squat here. I "have" plenty but adding to this will only prolong a thread I have give way too much time to already. I'm well aware of the waste of time it is to try and teach people anything that have no desire to learn or see the other side. What is terribly clear on these boards is anything considered in the alternative realm is suspect and when I enter that realization, I'm just done. Conk yourselves over the head with your "research" because they often come back to say they were wrong - after they've screwed up people's lives, or better yet, people have died. Vioxx anyone?
So y'all drink your nutrasweet and sucralose, etc. and enjoy it. It is a free country (at least for now). But I certainly hope to God if any of you ever have a loved one's life on the line because idiot "researchers" or doctors give up on them that you have more fortitude and open mindedness then you do now.
I guess ignorance truly is bliss. I've seen your kind of pseudoscience kill loved ones. Fortunately, the smart ones I love were saved by real doctors. Science is all we have. It's not perfect and our knowledge is ever developing, but God, televangelists, positive energy, cleanses, juicing, eastern "medicine," and the rest of "alternative medicine" are all B.S. If it wasn't then it would just be "medicine." If that's difficult for you to understand then you're part of the problem, and may Darwin have you.0
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