Sugar-free drinks: the good, the bad and the 'we should be aware'!
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janejellyroll wrote: »If you have a better list, one that isn't curated by someone who thinks sunscreen causes cancer and that AIDS isn't real, feel free to provide it.
I already provided it above. You apparently didn't read....http://www.mpwhi.com/peer_reviewed_research.htm0 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »If you have a better list, one that isn't curated by someone who thinks sunscreen causes cancer and that AIDS isn't real, feel free to provide it.
I already provided it above. You apparently didn't read....http://www.mpwhi.com/peer_reviewed_research.htm
Oh, yes, that's not a one-sided site at all:On our site you will find lots of information about the substance known as aspartame and the effects it has on you, others, and the environment. If you have any questions or concerns about this deadly substance please contact us and we'll be glad to help you.
ETA: My favorite is the link to the "article" by Clark Howard, who is employed by CNN to discuss money saving tips because he is a "consumer expert". He's definitely someone I'd turn to discuss the reasons I should or should not eat/drink a particular product.0 -
So any thoughts much appreciated and any low-calories alcohol subsititutes members enjoy for that early evening moment when willpower falters! Cheers to you all.
Okay, I really want to answer your actual question, but I'm a little torn on exactly what you're asking ...
If you're asking for substitutes for alcohol in the evenings, I have been switching a lot of my 'bedtime beers' (or wines) during the week for tea, either unsweetened if it's a fruit-based tea, or with just a touch of honey for other things like chamomile.
If you're asking for ways to drink alcohol, just with less sugar/diet drinks, I took the suggestion of a friend a long time ago and started ordering "vodka and water with lots of fruit" when I was at restaurants. And when I say lots, I mean I wanted the entire rim to be citrus! Over time I've switched the water to seltzer/soda water or tonic and cut the fruit back to just one wedge of lime or orange. (Pineapple is awesome, but you have to kind of muddle it a little since you can't really squeeze the juice out as well.) Vodka is my preferred liquor, but this definitely also works with gin, and probably rum as well. For that matter, I've done the same thing with no alcohol at all - just 'fizzy water' with fruit. Again, citrus is the easiest because of the 'juiciness' factor, but berries or pineapple, and even some yummy herbs like mint or basil, are great if you muddle them a bit.
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ronjsteele1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »If you have a better list, one that isn't curated by someone who thinks sunscreen causes cancer and that AIDS isn't real, feel free to provide it.
I already provided it above. You apparently didn't read....http://www.mpwhi.com/peer_reviewed_research.htm
"Mission Possible World Health International" was founded by "Doctor" Betty Martini. She has received an honorary doctorate in humanities. The website also offers to sell me a detox and warns me about the dangers of vaccinations (including the theory that Zika is a government conspiracy to hide vaccine damage from the public). Do you have a list by someone who hasn't been the subject of fraud investigations for selling herbs to "cure" cancer?
This is who you are recommending as a good source for studies: http://www.mpwhi.com/our_founder.htm0 -
lithezebra wrote: »I'm staying away from artificial sweeteners. Drinking sodas isn't important enough to me to wait for more research. I like a glass of wine, or a shot of scotch, and I stop at one.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/artificial-sweeteners-may-change-our-gut-bacteria-in-dangerous-ways/
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ronjsteele1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »If you have a better list, one that isn't curated by someone who thinks sunscreen causes cancer and that AIDS isn't real, feel free to provide it.
I already provided it above. You apparently didn't read....http://www.mpwhi.com/peer_reviewed_research.htm
And anti-vaccine claptrap on the home page. When you go BSC you might as well go all the way. How are these people allowed to keep their kids?
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I get bad headaches from artificial sweeteners, so for me personally, deem them to be unsafe. A friend of mine had symptoms of lupus for years until her doctor suggested she give up diet drinks. When she did, the symptoms went away. I'm not here to tell you all to use or not to use them, but there symptoms and diseases that can happen with long term use. I had found a list of diseases or symptoms of diseases that are developed from long term use of artificial sweeteners a while back on the FDA website. Although the one I'm posting as a link isn't the same one, it still shows what I'm talking about. The choice is yours.
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/jan03/012203/02p-0317_emc-000199.txt0 -
Oh, and the FDA stopped reporting toxicity of sweeteners, especially when the reports were increasing. If they didn't stop the reporting, the sweeteners probably would not be on the shelves of the grocery markets today.0
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ronjsteele1 wrote: »This ought to keep you busy enough reading for a few weeks.
http://aspartame.mercola.com/sites/aspartame/studies.aspx (here's pages and pages of studies done - and not by mercola - he just listed them out).
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/06/09/the-end-of-diet-soda-huge-study-links-aspartame-to-these-major-health-problems/
http://www.mpwhi.com/peer_reviewed_research.htm
Nearly every "study" ends with "we need to research more." If there is that much of a question about artificial sweeteners that most of the studies are STILL saying this, it should give someone pause. If they were really that "safe" there would be no continued questions about them.
As with every "study" out there, follow the money. Because in the end, most of the "studies" y'all like to site have someone linked to the industry with skin in the game. There is no objectivity. The same goes for pharmaceuticals. The opposite is true of natural stuff too. Follow the money.
This only kept me busy for the 15 seconds googling the third website you linked since I already knew the first two are not to be taken seriously on ANY topic.
http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Collective_Evolution0 -
lithezebra wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Personally I try and stay away from anything diet, including artificial sugars, particularly aspartame .
Sure they may be deemed "safe" , but I just can not make myself take the risk, just in case future studies prove the current ones wrong. Something just doesn't sit right with me when it comes to this stuff.
My gut feeling says stay away, it hasn't steered me wrong yet...
Following that logic, how do you eat anything, if you're worried that future studies may prove current ones wrong?
They aren't currently deemed safe. Aspartame and Sucralose are linked to blood cancers. Saccharine is linked to unhealthy changes in gut microbiota. Future research might prove that wrong. I'm not waiting.
*And there isn't much information on ace-K, the sweetener that people rarely talk about.
Aspartame has and is deemed safe on all accounts and has been studied for the past 3 decades. 3! That's 30 years. 360 Months. 10950 days plus leap days.
http://seriecientifica.org/sites/default/files/scl_enc_butchko.pdf
http://www.efsa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/scientific_output/files/main_documents/3496.pdf
Two full safety reviews, one from 2002 and another from 2013. Both coming to the conclusion it's fine, the first one remarking how curious it is that there's STILL people who don't believe it's safe even though it's by far the most studied additive in food.0 -
laurenpjokl wrote: »I don't believe many substances have been scrutinised as much as artificial sweeteners. I've read quite a lot of scientific literature on sweeteners, and I'm prepared to take my chances.
The only three reasons I try not to drink *excessive* amounts of cola are:
1. Too much caffeine makes me jumpy.
2. The diet versions may not have sugar, but they're too acidic to be much good for your dental health.
3. Phosphorous and Calcium are regulated by your body in the same pathway. Too much phosphoric acid intake can lead to your body withdrawing Calcium, IIRC.
My husband ended up with a huge painful calcium-based kidney stone after a couple of decades of heavy drinking of Coca-Cola (2 liters per day!) due to the phosphoric acid binding to calcium. Calcium stones can't be broken up by lithotripsy, so they had to do surgery to go get them. He hasn't touched a Coke since!0 -
I get bad headaches from artificial sweeteners, so for me personally, deem them to be unsafe. A friend of mine had symptoms of lupus for years until her doctor suggested she give up diet drinks. When she did, the symptoms went away. I'm not here to tell you all to use or not to use them, but there symptoms and diseases that can happen with long term use. I had found a list of diseases or symptoms of diseases that are developed from long term use of artificial sweeteners a while back on the FDA website. Although the one I'm posting as a link isn't the same one, it still shows what I'm talking about. The choice is yours.
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/jan03/012203/02p-0317_emc-000199.txt
That is a docket.
What is a docket?
http://www.fda.gov/aboutfda/transparency/basics/ucm194912.htm
Mark Gold, you can google that guy. As crazy as they come.0 -
I get bad headaches from artificial sweeteners, so for me personally, deem them to be unsafe. A friend of mine had symptoms of lupus for years until her doctor suggested she give up diet drinks. When she did, the symptoms went away. I'm not here to tell you all to use or not to use them, but there symptoms and diseases that can happen with long term use. I had found a list of diseases or symptoms of diseases that are developed from long term use of artificial sweeteners a while back on the FDA website. Although the one I'm posting as a link isn't the same one, it still shows what I'm talking about. The choice is yours.
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/03/jan03/012203/02p-0317_emc-000199.txt
You do realize that this is a submission docket to the FDA from someone. That someone being from the "Aspartame Toxicity Information Center" which appears now to go by the name holisticmed.com
http://www.holisticmed.com/cfs/gold.html
I mean, come on.From: Mark Gold [mgold@shelltown.net]
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 11:12 PM
To: fdadockets@oc.fda.gov
Subject: Docket # 02P-0317 Recall Aspartame as a Neurotoxic Drug: File
#4: Reported Aspartame Toxicity Reactions
Subject: Docket # 02P-0317
To: FDA Dockets Submittal
From: Mark D. Gold
Aspartame Toxicity Information Center
12 East Side Dr., Suite 2-18
Concord, NH 03301
603-225-2110
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I run a weight loss program at work. In my experience, Aspartame and Sucralose will stall my patients in their loss - Xylitol has stalled me at one time during my own weight loss - I also read yesterday that artificially sweetened drinks are hard on tooth enamel and damaging
Stevia and Xylitol are better options for sweeteners because they are derived from plants0 -
Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »I run a weight loss program at work. In my experience, Aspartame and Sucralose will stall my patients in their loss - Xylitol has stalled me at one time during my own weight loss - I also read yesterday that artificially sweetened drinks are hard on tooth enamel and damaging
Stevia and Xylitol are better options for sweeteners because they are derived from plants
You're saying artificial sweeteners damage tooth enamel? Or do you mean the acid in diet soda damages tooth enamel?0 -
Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »I run a weight loss program at work. In my experience, Aspartame and Sucralose will stall my patients in their loss - Xylitol has stalled me at one time during my own weight loss - I also read yesterday that artificially sweetened drinks are hard on tooth enamel and damaging
Stevia and Xylitol are better options for sweeteners because they are derived from plants
So, how would they stall weight loss?0 -
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What is the mechanism behind aspartame and sucralose causing your patients (???!!!!????) to stall?Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »I run a weight loss program at work. In my experience, Aspartame and Sucralose will stall my patients in their loss
I assume as you have patients you can provide detailed clinical evidence and a resounding rationale for your claim?
Plant derived eh?Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »Stevia and Xylitol are better options for sweeteners because they are derived from plants
Adenium obesum, Ricinus communis, Solanum pseudocapsicum, Brugmansia genus, Laburnum genus, Atropa belladonna, Ageratina altissima are all plants. You wouldn't want to ingest any of them.
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Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »I run a weight loss program at work. In my experience, Aspartame and Sucralose will stall my patients in their loss - Xylitol has stalled me at one time during my own weight loss - I also read yesterday that artificially sweetened drinks are hard on tooth enamel and damaging
Stevia and Xylitol are better options for sweeteners because they are derived from plants
Why is being derived from a plant better? Plenty of poisons are derived from plants. Many safe things are made in labs.0 -
CasperNaegle wrote: »There are no studies that show you gain weight from diet zero calorie drinks.. Correlations does not mean causation. You can't eat 3500 calories a day and drink diet cokes to lose weight.
Bingo! Some people will drink these diet drinks and assume it's okay to have more calories as a snack or meal because the drink had none.
And sometimes artificial sweeteners can stimulate appetite in some people, leading them to eat more.
Calories in-calories out is king!0 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »This ought to keep you busy enough reading for a few weeks.
http://aspartame.mercola.com/sites/aspartame/studies.aspx (here's pages and pages of studies done - and not by mercola - he just listed them out).
Mercola is a confirmed quack. Your 'research' should've gone a tad further.
And I just had a diet rootbeer while on the treadmill. Exercising.
And I hate kale. It tastes of sadness and trendy desperation.
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lithezebra wrote: »I'm staying away from artificial sweeteners. Drinking sodas isn't important enough to me to wait for more research. I like a glass of wine, or a shot of scotch, and I stop at one.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/artificial-sweeteners-may-change-our-gut-bacteria-in-dangerous-ways/
A mouse study. Further study on gut bacteria:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26474235
CONCLUSION:
In both humans and animals there are characteristic changes in the gut microbiota associated with obesity. In animals but not in humans altering the microbiota can result in weight loss and weight gain which does not occur in humans. This suggests that in humans the changes in gut microbiota are an association with rather than the cause of obesity.
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6pkdreamer wrote: »Artificial sugars either good or bad allows one to maintain there sugar addiction without the weight gain- brilliant!
Sugar addiction is not a thing; even if it was, artificial sweeteners would not perpetuate the addiction, as the chemicals are completely different.
Also, their, not there.0 -
Oh, and the FDA stopped reporting toxicity of sweeteners, especially when the reports were increasing. If they didn't stop the reporting, the sweeteners probably would not be on the shelves of the grocery markets today.
As far as I know, this is a Mercola claim. Do you have other evidence for it?
This is worth reading: http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/aspartame.asp0 -
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Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »I run a weight loss program at work. In my experience, Aspartame and Sucralose will stall my patients in their loss - Xylitol has stalled me at one time during my own weight loss - I also read yesterday that artificially sweetened drinks are hard on tooth enamel and damaging
Stevia and Xylitol are better options for sweeteners because they are derived from plants
Interesting, my own experience has been the opposite-lost 50+ pounds while drinking quite a bit of diet soda and still drinking it, 3 years into maintenance 0 -
Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »I run a weight loss program at work. In my experience, Aspartame and Sucralose will stall my patients in their loss...
Eh it's probably all those extra calories your "patients" are eating.
Just a guess.0 -
Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »I run a weight loss program at work. In my experience, Aspartame and Sucralose will stall my patients in their loss - Xylitol has stalled me at one time during my own weight loss - I also read yesterday that artificially sweetened drinks are hard on tooth enamel and damaging
Stevia and Xylitol are better options for sweeteners because they are derived from plants
You're saying artificial sweeteners damage tooth enamel? Or do you mean the acid in diet soda damages tooth enamel?
Research has highlighted that there is a lack of data on the potential actions of foods containing certain sweeteners, yes, sugar and acid in general can be damaging. I just thought it was interesting that I came across an article that was stating that sweeteners are hard on enamel.
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stevencloser wrote: »Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »I run a weight loss program at work. In my experience, Aspartame and Sucralose will stall my patients in their loss - Xylitol has stalled me at one time during my own weight loss - I also read yesterday that artificially sweetened drinks are hard on tooth enamel and damaging
Stevia and Xylitol are better options for sweeteners because they are derived from plants
So, how would they stall weight loss?
There is some evidence that calorie free artificial sweeteners mess up the mechanism our brain uses to decide if we have had enough to eat... I'm not claiming to know the science behind it. I'm simply stating what my experience has been.
Another interesting experience is that I have had to caution people on how many apples they consume as they have also been a culprit of stalling.
In regards to sweeteners, I would much rather use xylitol than Aspartame as Aspartame breaks down into methanol, amino acids and several other chemicals... The methanol is quickly absorbed and converted into formaldehyde.
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