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Can one live on only meat?
Replies
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stevencloser wrote: »SarcasmIsMyLoveLanguage wrote: »Interestingly, this article popped up while I was reading the morning news. An excerpt: "...Why is it that some people can stay healthy only by sticking to a strict vegetarian diet? Why is it that others can eat a steak a day, remain slim, avoid heart disease and feel like a million dollars? The answers may lie in your heritage. Cornell University researchers have found a fascinating genetic variation that they said appears to have evolved in populations that favored vegetarian diets over hundreds of generations....this new study, funded by the National Institutes of Health and the U.S. Department of Agriculture, shows that different people may need radically different ratios of the substances in their diet depending on their genes, and it supports the growing evidence against a one-size-fits-all approach to nutrition and for highly personalized advice..."
The entire article is quite interesting: news.nationalpost.com/health/some-people-are-born-vegetarians-and-ignoring-genetic-preference-imperils-their-health-study-finds
ETA: the article also references the meat-centred diet of the Inuit
Pretty useless if the article does not put a single link to any of the studies it's talking about and instead looked for 5 stock photos and a youtube video titled "Is Arnold Schwarzenegger going vegan?".
Here's the study: mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2016/03/09/molbev.msw049.full.pdf+html0 -
interesting study.0
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »never mind.
^this0 -
?jofjltncb6 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »never mind.
^this0 -
SarcasmIsMyLoveLanguage wrote: »shows that different people may need radically different ratios of the substances in their diet depending on their genes, and it supports the growing evidence against a one-size-fits-all approach to nutrition and for highly personalized advice..."
Tangentially, last November I had some genetic testing done using a private company in the UK to get a personalised fitness & diet profile. I had avoided getting it done previously as the cost seemed prohibitive. That is until they had a half price offer on...
The company was at pains to state that not too much could be taken from the results (which is part of the reason I didn't wish to pay full price in the first place) and that it was emerging science and so on.
The results however were not altogether surprising after numerous years of personal trial and error where I got a "feel" of what was right for me both from a fitness and diet perspective. I knew on some level without prior testing that I had a low sensitivity to carbs / sat fat or low coeliac predisposition and so on.
Now there may be a whole lot of bias going on in my interpreting the results based of my history but experimenting with differing ways of eating or training protocols and going by gut feel (pardon the pun) may on some level help a person tap into what suits them best genetically.
Keep an open mind. Try lots of things. Keep what works, throw out what does not.0 -
You, sir, win the Internet today. Great post.EvgeniZyntx wrote: »And people do all sorts of waca-doodle experiments with food - if you are trying to understand how people can get into the whole "only meat" thing I remember reading the Joe Anderson and his family blog about how it was "the best thing for them".
Here is someone who has gone from vegan to all meat. http://zerocarbzen.com/about-me/
Well, personally I'm going to consider all restrictive diets as dubious (or worse) - I'll respect how people eat because I understand it is a multifaceted decision that includes so many different factors - but generally anyone arguing either that their WoE is "nutritionally best" or the opposite that method x is "OMG, gonna die, necessarily nutritionally deficient" is blowing the horn on two sides of the same coin (might as well mix my metaphors and screw the pooch) and full of it.
Any diet may be nutritionally deficient. Almost any diet may meet personal nutritional needs. Most require some thought and specific action.
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SarcasmIsMyLoveLanguage wrote: »
?jofjltncb6 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »never mind.
^this
well, i had posted the link, then noticed you had already posted it.0 -
SarcasmIsMyLoveLanguage wrote: »Interestingly, this article popped up while I was reading the morning news. An excerpt: "...Why is it that some people can stay healthy only by sticking to a strict vegetarian diet? Why is it that others can eat a steak a day, remain slim, avoid heart disease and feel like a million dollars? The answers may lie in your heritage. Cornell University researchers have found a fascinating genetic variation that they said appears to have evolved in populations that favored vegetarian diets over hundreds of generations....this new study, funded by the National Institutes of Health and the U.S. Department of Agriculture, shows that different people may need radically different ratios of the substances in their diet depending on their genes, and it supports the growing evidence against a one-size-fits-all approach to nutrition and for highly personalized advice..."
The entire article is quite interesting: news.nationalpost.com/health/some-people-are-born-vegetarians-and-ignoring-genetic-preference-imperils-their-health-study-finds
ETA: the article also references the meat-centred diet of the Inuit
Neat. Can't wait to read the study -- the article is interesting.
It seems like a new possible way for people to drive themselves crazy, though (is this way of eating bad for me because of my genes?).0 -
I have been lurking through this thread since it started, but since it's still going I thought I would drop in my 2 cents...
My concern would be, unless you are already eating a very meat-centric diet, I would think it will take some time for your digestive system to acclimate to the change. And by the time it adjusts and everything is running smoothly, you are I guess going to switch back to however you are currently eating and could again have to put up with a digestive adjustment period. I know some people's pipes will put up with just about anything, so I know this wouldn't apply to everyone, but I don't think you'll know for sure until it happens.
Plus, protein is almost always the most expensive stuff in my shopping cart. So unless you have access to way more affordable meats than I do, this is going to be a bit expensive.
So it just seems like a lot of trouble to go through on the off chance you might lose a few extra lbs. I don't see why it would cause any permanent damage though, so if that's all your concerned about I guess you could give it a shot. But since you were asking for opinions - I wouldn't do this, because weight loss comes down to calories, and doing something extreme for a month isn't necessary. And I personally think the standards for what you put yourself through on a dare or to lose weight should be higher than - Will it cause permanent damage?
I hope you don't do it, but I'm willing to make myself a hypocrite by saying - If you decide to do this, let us know how it goes!
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@_John_ - Did you ever manage to balance a decent stretch?
Also, this thread got weird in a lot of different ways. Thank you all.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »SarcasmIsMyLoveLanguage wrote: »Interestingly, this article popped up while I was reading the morning news. An excerpt: "...Why is it that some people can stay healthy only by sticking to a strict vegetarian diet? Why is it that others can eat a steak a day, remain slim, avoid heart disease and feel like a million dollars? The answers may lie in your heritage. Cornell University researchers have found a fascinating genetic variation that they said appears to have evolved in populations that favored vegetarian diets over hundreds of generations....this new study, funded by the National Institutes of Health and the U.S. Department of Agriculture, shows that different people may need radically different ratios of the substances in their diet depending on their genes, and it supports the growing evidence against a one-size-fits-all approach to nutrition and for highly personalized advice..."
The entire article is quite interesting: news.nationalpost.com/health/some-people-are-born-vegetarians-and-ignoring-genetic-preference-imperils-their-health-study-finds
ETA: the article also references the meat-centred diet of the Inuit
Neat. Can't wait to read the study -- the article is interesting.
It seems like a new possible way for people to drive themselves crazy, though (is this way of eating bad for me because of my genes?).
Agreed. Almost as weird as the blood-type diet fad.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I had plans to try something like this already, except I am still including coconut oil and some eggs.
Oh I'm glad you're here. I'm genuinely curious why people try something like this? I know you're a huge proponent of keto and how beneficial its been for you. What's the draw for something even more extreme like this? Are you hoping for accelerated weight loss? Some change in your health markers? Ive been struggling go understand the appeal and potential benefits of this, other than bragging rights, and while I don't always agree with your logic I know that you have strong convictions about your LCHF lifestyle so I'm sure yo are trying to avhieve something with this.
For me, it is partially curiosity, There are a few low carbers on MFP who eat virtually an all meat diet. They've discussed how it made them feel even better. Better energy, better stomach issues, better weight loss and stability, and the cooking is simple. LOL I felt a lot better going keto. It's why I have stayed with it. I wonder if I will feel even better after cutting out veggies... As it is, there are many veggies I avoid due to stomach pain, bloating and gas. I do find that the fewer plant products I eat, the better I have felt so far. This is just taking it a bit further.
I would enjoy seeing a bit of weight loss but I am a size 8 so I am pretty happy with where I am. I now eat quite a bit for a sedentary woman (about 2000-2500kcal per day) so I doubt I'll lose. If I do it will be because my appetite dips and I eat less, or it increases my CO, or a combination of the two.
As for health markers, I wouldn't mind seeing lower FBG numbers and lower insulin, but that's about it. My health markers are fine and don't need improving.
It is just some experimenting. I'll see how it makes me feel and if that is worth the expected food boredom. Who knows, I may enjoy it. I enjoy a keto diet much more than most people seem to expect, so maybe this will agree with me too.
It isn't about bragging rights. I doubt I will even tell anybody (IRL) I am doing it besides my husband. I don't need the support or judgement from others. Most people can't wrap their heads around this idea. I think it is sort of like vegetarianism or veganism was viewed 30 or so years ago. It is largely misunderstood.
Thanks for responding.
Do the people who do this diet on the regular ever talk about any negative impacts or feelings about the approach? I tend to find anyone who can't point to possible or actual drawbacks that they encounter far less compelling as an influencer. I would much rather hear "well, now it's great but when I first started I felt XYZ" or "sure, I enjoy eating a juicy rare ribeye every night but in all honesty, I'd love a baked potato or some asparagus to go with it" but I'm sticking with this approach!
The evangelical zealot approach doesn't resonate well with me, I believe any rational person should be able to recognize and acknowledge pros and cons with any point of view.
I have seen them discuss boredom. A few were even slightly nauseated at some point in the first week or two, but that appears to be true for people who are doing a one meat challenge like just beef. It seems to pass quickly.
Another complaint is people's attitudes when they find out about it. It is not often positive. There is soe minimal annoyance about the myths people believe like it causing diarrhea or nutritional deficiencies.
There may be other complaints, but that is all i have noticed.0 -
queenliz99 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »
No, I will include some coconut oil amd eggs. I'll skip dairy because I find I tend to do better without much and my cheese consumption is creeping up. I'll see how it goes. I enjoy veggies so it could get old. If so, I'll stop.
I'm sorry, I meant which type of meats?
Sorry. I misunderstood.
I plan to eat mostly beef and pork because we butcher our own meat. I have a ready supply.
I plan to also include seafood (fish, oysters, shrimp, etc) with salmon being my favourite. I will eat a bit of lamb, and the wild game we have in our freezer (mostly bird and some elk), and a bit of chicken and turkey (not my favourites).0 -
queenliz99 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »
No, I will include some coconut oil amd eggs. I'll skip dairy because I find I tend to do better without much and my cheese consumption is creeping up. I'll see how it goes. I enjoy veggies so it could get old. If so, I'll stop.
I'm sorry, I meant which type of meats?
Sorry. I misunderstood.
I plan to eat mostly beef and pork because we butcher our own meat. I have a ready supply.
I plan to also include seafood (fish, oysters, shrimp, etc) with salmon being my favourite. I will eat a bit of lamb, and the wild game we have in our freezer (mostly bird and some elk), and a bit of chicken and turkey (not my favourites).
That sounds amazing. Did you shoot the wild game? I've had elk and it was delicious.0 -
But why...?0
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queenliz99 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »
No, I will include some coconut oil amd eggs. I'll skip dairy because I find I tend to do better without much and my cheese consumption is creeping up. I'll see how it goes. I enjoy veggies so it could get old. If so, I'll stop.
I'm sorry, I meant which type of meats?
Sorry. I misunderstood.
I plan to eat mostly beef and pork because we butcher our own meat. I have a ready supply.
I plan to also include seafood (fish, oysters, shrimp, etc) with salmon being my favourite. I will eat a bit of lamb, and the wild game we have in our freezer (mostly bird and some elk), and a bit of chicken and turkey (not my favourites).
That sounds amazing. Did you shoot the wild game? I've had elk and it was delicious.
My husband and boys hunt. Hubby shot it a good year and a half ago.The elk is actually getting a bit old so we need to use it up soon. We have some deer sausage, ducks and geese too.0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »I'd be curious about the nutritional completeness of this as well. I can't imagine that you could get the full compliment of necessary vitamins and minerals through meat alone. Definitely lacking in fibre. @queenliz99 your friend sounds a little cray... And that's coming from me
Actually, I think you would, assuming by "meat" you also include organ meat. While there are certain vitamins (B12) only found in animal products, I don't know of any vitamin only found in plants. Beta carotine, yes, but there are other forms of Vitamin A found in animals.
It does sort of make sense - all animals have similar vitamin biochemistry, so eating something that requires the same vitamins you require should be a complete source of those vitamins. Of course that would mean eating more than just the muscle of an animal - you will also need to consume organ meat. For example, beef is lacking in vitamin A, C, D, E, K, B6, and folate, but beef liver makes up for most of that, and seafood could make up the rest. Vitamin K is probably the hardest of the bunch, just because leafy plants are a fantastic source of that vitamin (they use it for photosynthesis), but animals do have some too.
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rankinsect wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »I'd be curious about the nutritional completeness of this as well. I can't imagine that you could get the full compliment of necessary vitamins and minerals through meat alone. Definitely lacking in fibre. @queenliz99 your friend sounds a little cray... And that's coming from me
Actually, I think you would, assuming by "meat" you also include organ meat. While there are certain vitamins (B12) only found in animal products, I don't know of any vitamin only found in plants. Beta carotine, yes, but there are other forms of Vitamin A found in animals.
It does sort of make sense - all animals have similar vitamin biochemistry, so eating something that requires the same vitamins you require should be a complete source of those vitamins. Of course that would mean eating more than just the muscle of an animal - you will also need to consume organ meat. For example, beef is lacking in vitamin A, C, D, E, K, B6, and folate, but beef liver makes up for most of that, and seafood could make up the rest. Vitamin K is probably the hardest of the bunch, just because leafy plants are a fantastic source of that vitamin (they use it for photosynthesis), but animals do have some too.
Cool! Thanks. I still can't wrap my head around doing this. Probably because organ meats are not on my list of things I personally would consider food. I know many people who enjoy them, but I have never met a liver that tasted good. Drown it in ketchup and I could choke it down. Could we call ketchup, "tomato meat?"1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »I'm pretty sure a month is long enough to start showing the early symptoms of scurvy. Probably not long for any of your teeth to fall out, but you might find any cuts you get are slow to heal. You can get some vitamin C from liver. Or central nervous system tissue--but I'd rather run a fairly high risk of scurvy than a remote risk of "mad cow." Probably not rational, since I still eat ground beef, but there you are.
I so don't get why you would do this just because somebody issued a challenge. Is she going to pay you a thousand dollars?
There is vitamin C in meats. Just eat it rare.
Which meat are you thinking of? I checked the USDA nutrient database for raw ground beef and it said zero vitamin C.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »
"Vegetable oil". Hmm. Look at a vegetable. Where's the oil ? What's the nutrient in "vegetable oil" that's essential to life that isn't in meat ?
Mankind probably got here without seeing industrially extracted oils for most of the journey.
Not that I think you need vegetable oil, but have you seen an olive or an avocado?
I have indeed seen those fruits In shops, yes. The oil doesn't exactly pour out of them, does it, and they're fruits not vegetables.1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »People keep saying this diet isn't that much different than vegetarians or vegans, but many who follow that lifestyle are doing it for ethical reasons. Are the meat only eaters doing this to protect the plants?
Not really, their food eats the plants for them.
Perhaps people do this because they can, and need no other reason.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »People keep saying this diet isn't that much different than vegetarians or vegans, but many who follow that lifestyle are doing it for ethical reasons. Are the meat only eaters doing this to protect the plants?
Not really, their food eats the plants for them.
Perhaps people do this because they can, and need no other reason.
That sounds like the logic of my 4 year old.
I like to think that grown adults have solid, well thought reasons for their choices and actions and could articulate those reasons when asked about the motivation behind a decision such as this.
But if you subscribe to the shoulder shrug, "I do what I want because I can" philosophy of rationale then maybe I will send my four year old over and you can talk to him about why he insists on wearing the red sleeveless shirt and no jacket even though it's only 36 degrees outside today.
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"Because I can" thinking has been involved in my binging on sugary treats. Not a fan. I also think an all meat diet, like the Twinkie diet, may be doable but is in no way worth the increased risk. @nvmomketo I hope you think better of this. Is entertaining the troops here really worth it?0
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WinoGelato wrote: »
"Vegetable oil". Hmm. Look at a vegetable. Where's the oil ? What's the nutrient in "vegetable oil" that's essential to life that isn't in meat ?
Mankind probably got here without seeing industrially extracted oils for most of the journey.
Not that I think you need vegetable oil, but have you seen an olive or an avocado?
I have indeed seen those fruits In shops, yes. The oil doesn't exactly pour out of them, does it, and they're fruits not vegetables.
But would you call avocado oil a vegetable oil, or a fruit oil?0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »
"Vegetable oil". Hmm. Look at a vegetable. Where's the oil ? What's the nutrient in "vegetable oil" that's essential to life that isn't in meat ?
Mankind probably got here without seeing industrially extracted oils for most of the journey.
Not that I think you need vegetable oil, but have you seen an olive or an avocado?
I have indeed seen those fruits In shops, yes. The oil doesn't exactly pour out of them, does it, and they're fruits not vegetables.
But would you call avocado oil a vegetable oil, or a fruit oil?
an edible oil ?1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »
"Vegetable oil". Hmm. Look at a vegetable. Where's the oil ? What's the nutrient in "vegetable oil" that's essential to life that isn't in meat ?
Mankind probably got here without seeing industrially extracted oils for most of the journey.
Not that I think you need vegetable oil, but have you seen an olive or an avocado?
I have indeed seen those fruits In shops, yes. The oil doesn't exactly pour out of them, does it, and they're fruits not vegetables.
But would you call avocado oil a vegetable oil, or a fruit oil?
an edible oil ?
I'm sorry, write ins are not allowed on the test.2 -
you didn't specify it was multiple choice. I would probably have preferred "industrial seed oil" until I discovered it's extracted from the dried flesh of the fruit, but I'll go with "vegetable oil" as this is the general heading under which it would fall (as opposed to mineral oil) and fruit oils are considered as vegetable oils.0
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And to recap, winogelato asked why no vegetable oils. You went on about industrial seed oils and acted incredulous that oil could come from a vegetable. Someone said that there's oil in avocados and olives (both high fat, both common sources of popular oils), and you then suggested they were fruit (culinarily that's not the case -- the culinary and botanical definitions are often different) and made some comment about oil not pouring out of them.
The ultimate is whether avocado oil and olive oil are bad for us (although you seem to have changed the discussion to whether they are ultra processed (industrial seed[?] oils). Cold-pressed EVOO and EVAO (wonder if Rachael Ray will pick that one up!) is not normally considered "ultra processed" products, but of course I have long asserted that all these terms seem confusing and useless). And of course the cold-pressed EV versions are the ones usually touted for their taste.0 -
I Love meat, but why would you only eat it. A good balanced diet is much better all the way around. Eat things you like and can do over the long term.0
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