April 2016 Running Challenge
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I had a really productive day yesterday. The weather was pretty nice at lunch, so I laced up and took a walk at the park. It was great weather last night, so I decided to do my 10K training around my neighborhood. Surprised at how quick my times were running outside and I wasn't anymore fatigued than I would have been on my treadmill. Score!
4/1……..1.25 miles……Outdoor Run/Walk
4/2……..Rest
4/3……..Rest
4/4……..3.0 miles……..Treadmill 10K training
4/5……..3.0 miles……..Treadmill Run/Walk
4/6……..1.5 miles……..Outdoor Lunch Walk
………2.5 miles……..Outdoor 10K training
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@AdrianChr92 that is the creepiest picture of a goose I have ever seen!AdrianChr92 wrote: »
Even their tongue has teeth
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WhatMeRunning wrote: »
Yes, I figured spacing them about 10 to 12 hours apart. Although if it has any benefit to do them closer (or no harm even) that could work even easier on some days. Say, 5 to 7 hours apart.EvgeniZyntx wrote: »WhatMeRunning wrote: »Question about the doubles while it is on topic.
I was planning to start adding in some doubles a few weeks from now as I continue building up from my current 42 mpw to 60 mpw. My reasoning for the doubles is that during this base building phase my workouts are long runs and by that point I will be doing 2 to 3 long runs (90 to 180 minutes) per week. There gets to be a point where it is impractical to add distance to the long runs due to either total running time (pushing 180 minutes) or time in regular life (2+ hour mid-week runs are very difficult to fit in). Likewise my non-long runs can't go any longer because at that point they would go well past 60 minutes each and start creeping towards 90 minutes which would make them long runs technically. So my plan was to take some of those non-long run days and do doubles so I can get the added mileage without making them too long. They would be between 35 and 60 minutes each run on these double runs.
Does that sound right or am I incorporating doubles inappropriately?
Nothing sounds off - anyone?
Doing them morning and evenings?
My understanding is that spacing them is better - 7 or more is good. Add them in slowly.0 -
04/01 - Rest day (due to 5K on the 3rd)
04/02 - Rest
04/03 - Around the Bay - 5K
04/04 - 2.5 KM
04/05 - Cross Training Day
04/06 - 3.25 KM
Total for April: 10.75 KM/45 KM
UPCOMING RACES
04/24 - Forest City Road Races (5K), London, Ontario0 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »@acorsaut89 I ditto what @Stoshew71 said. I'll say running is running, if you take that first step out the door, you're way ahead of most people in the world.
Thanks! I know there's a ton of people who always say to me after a race, "You finished, and that's what matters" but I think anyone who has run even a little bit knows that once you get a bit of it in you you just want more and more, you want better and you want to push yourself. So my mileage isn't as high, but I know I will get there one day.
I'm very much a goal oriented and driven person, so I know if I can do better I want to do better. I know it's not always good to think that way, but it helps to keep me motivated.0 -
Ashleedeathbarbie wrote: »Can I get in on this action? I'm training for my second marathon so I'd love to have something to check in with.
welcome aboard!!!0 -
4/1 - 3.5 miles on indoor track + weights/abs
4/2 - Life day
4/3 - 10 miles. Very windy.
4/4 - Rest day.
4/5 - 4 miles on the treadmill, then weights/abs.
4/6 - 4.3 miles. Cool, damp and breezy.
4/7 - 4.5 miles on treadmill (Trek class)
Upcoming Races:
4/9 - Beer and Bagel Run
4/30 - Hy-Vee Road Races HM
5/7 - Market to Market Relay
5/14 - WHAMM 10k
5/27 - Girls on the Run 5k (with my daughter...Yay!)
6/4 - Dam to Dam HM
@samthepanda - Yay! Nice to get back to it!
@MobyCarp - I'm getting excited for you to run Boston! I've never done a marathon, never met you in person...but I'm practically giddy reading that it is only 1.5 weeks away.
@nicolemarie999 - Fun! I have found that races have become the reward for sticking with it. They aren't so much a goal anymore, but a good time with like-minded nut jobs!
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Another 1km run! I opted for the lawns instead of the cobblestone path today, and my knees seemed to approve. Running was still difficult though, possibly because I'm having a tired/hungry week.
Re: geese - there are Egyptian geese all over the place around here, and while they do not normally care about walkers and runners, I do have to be careful right now as they have chicks and can get very cranky very fast.
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acorsaut89 wrote: »Thanks! I know there's a ton of people who always say to me after a race, "You finished, and that's what matters" but I think anyone who has run even a little bit knows that once you get a bit of it in you you just want more and more, you want better and you want to push yourself. So my mileage isn't as high, but I know I will get there one day.
I'm very much a goal oriented and driven person, so I know if I can do better I want to do better. I know it's not always good to think that way, but it helps to keep me motivated.
I'm the same way. The good folks in this group have been very good about putting me in my place and helping me remember to back things down when I get way too into it.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
Some advice then - I'm running 6 days/week, averaging about 30ish miles/week, and have been for better than 6 months. If I'm gonna make my monthly goal (135), I need to run about 5.2 miles/day. I have a secondary goal of acclimatizing myself to running in heat, because I'm running the Peachtree Road Race (10K) in Atlanta Georgia on 04-Jul (and it's gonna be HOT!).EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Exactly, If you are breaking your mileage into two you actually need to add time for equivalent effort to induce endurance adaptations. There is even an equation - but since I don't do it, I don't have it in mind. 30%? more of the remaining???
Plus, by doing doubles too early you are actually hurting the period of recovery. 20 minutes in and you slow significantly protein synthesis.
It doesn't mean there isn't a place for doubles, but if you are going to do that, first increase the number of running days (while reducing miles per run), then increase mileage, then doubles. If you are only running 3-4 times a week doubles rarely make sense if it isn't a scheduling thing.
I usually run at work at lunch, but can't take that long a lunch to make 5.2 miles. I was planning to run doubles - about 3 miles before work, and 3 at work. Am I putting in more-or-less useless miles? Is doubles not the way I want/need to go? I don't think that I can routinely do just the 3 at lunch and then a 14+ mile run every Saturday... I KNOW that SWMBO wouldn't like that....
Running is never wasted.
You are already up to 6x per week and hitting 30 miles. It is tough upping from that for you because of time conflicts during the day. Ideally, you need longer runs in the week. Can you hit one early once a week or move one to the evening?
If you can't, doubles are ok, in terms of endurance - you won't lose endurance by only doing one long run a week. But it doesn't seem to be the focus - you'll still get general aerobic training 2x per day. It is still driving cardiovascular adaptation. Two runs for the target mileage can also be useful for recovery (easier effort to run 2x4km vs 8 km, if you spread them properly).
But, as one is trying to build endurance ... you are going to at least need an intermediate 60+min run in your week sometimes. Endurance is going to be built into the 60-90min effort range. Can you hit that in one evening or morning a week? It still is the best way to develop.
Doubles tend to be recommended when mileage hits 50+ miles per week. So think about it - is losing out on the long runs during the week an acceptable life compromise? We aren't Olympic athletes and developing endurance more slowly, less optimally is just something we sometimes choose.
As to practicing doubles - not my thing so get more advice - but like all things running, build up slowly, do a break up first on an easy day, only add 1 double for a few weeks, etc...
One more thought - if you are running in the morning and want to benefit from a double, giving yourself more interday time and doing 2nd in the evening might have better results (more recovery time)...
I agree with his advice and want to add one more thing. In time, your speed will automatically get better which means that you will be able to do more miles in the same amount of time. When you notice this, you will be able to run a further distance in a single workout and still be within your schedule allowments.
Running 2 shorter is not the same as running the same mileage as a larger one. However, when scheduling prevents you from doing an optimal workout, 2 runs are always better than one. One more suggestion. In addition of maybe trying to fit in a midweek medium long run as @EvgeniZyntx is suggesting here... On one of your double days, use one of them as a speed workout and the second as a recovery run. (morning workout is faster than normal, lunch or evening workout being slower than normal)0 -
Thanks everyone for reading my story and for your kind words. I certainly wasn't looking for any sympathy or praise regarding my situation. I believe that each and every one of us has our own set backs to deal with. The most important thing is to not let them keep us from doing what we want and love to do.0
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MNLittleFinn wrote: »4/1 Rest day!
4/2 6 miles in the snow
4/3 4 easy miles
4/4 Rest day
4/5 4 easy miles
4/6 Rest day
4/7- 4 miles (plus half a mile because I forgot to start my garmin) inadvertent Tempo Run.
Morning run in the dark was very relaxing. Beautiful 30 degree weather. I went quite a bit faster than planned, but I yesterday was one of those kind of days, so I needed to blow off some steam so this turned into a slight Tempo Run, Average pace 10:36 +/- 10 seconds the whole time, Mile 1 was 10:36, Mile 2 was -10 seconds/mile then 3 was +3sec/mi and 4 was +6 sec/mi. New Saucony Siberius pants worked great, almost too good. In the 30 degree weather, I probably could have gotten away with my Nike pants no problem.
Tempo run ~= 10:36
I am so very sorry to point this out and in no way demeaning you in any way. First off, if I was running 10:36 pace, that means my legs are hurting and I needed a recovery run. Only reason I am pointing this out is that one of our local elites a couple of times decided to join us in our running group. Josh Whitehead usually wins all of the local races (either him or another guy Brandon York). The first time he joined us I asked him before our run what was his recovery pace, and he said usually it's around a 6:30 pace. I laughed and told him that 7:20-7:30 was like my tempo pace. He took it all in good fun. He was like I am just going to enjoy this morning and get to know you guys.
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WhatMeRunning wrote: »Question about the doubles while it is on topic.
I was planning to start adding in some doubles a few weeks from now as I continue building up from my current 42 mpw to 60 mpw. My reasoning for the doubles is that during this base building phase my workouts are long runs and by that point I will be doing 2 to 3 long runs (90 to 180 minutes) per week. There gets to be a point where it is impractical to add distance to the long runs due to either total running time (pushing 180 minutes) or time in regular life (2+ hour mid-week runs are very difficult to fit in). Likewise my non-long runs can't go any longer because at that point they would go well past 60 minutes each and start creeping towards 90 minutes which would make them long runs technically. So my plan was to take some of those non-long run days and do doubles so I can get the added mileage without making them too long. They would be between 35 and 60 minutes each run on these double runs.
Does that sound right or am I incorporating doubles inappropriately?
This makes total sense and very similar to what I started incorporating.
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Tempo run ~= 10:36
I am so very sorry to point this out and in no way demeaning you in any way. First off, if I was running 10:36 pace, that means my legs are hurting and I needed a recovery run. Only reason I am pointing this out is that one of our local elites a couple of times decided to join us in our running group. Josh Whitehead usually wins all of the local races (either him or another guy Brandon York). The first time he joined us I asked him before our run what was his recovery pace, and he said usually it's around a 6:30 pace. I laughed and told him that 7:20-7:30 was like my tempo pace. He took it all in good fun. He was like I am just going to enjoy this morning and get to know you guys.
LOL, I know I'm slow, and in truth, it wasn't really a tempo run, It would have been closer to 10:00 or even 9:30 min/mi if I was booking it, I can go faster, but I bonk after a couple miles.
I'm still bad with terminology, and it was more of a way of making an excuse to myself because I was like 30 sec/mi faster than I planned for the run.
I've done 9:36 for 6 miles, but that's a PR speed for that distance for me.0 -
kristinegift wrote: »WhatMeRunning wrote: »Question about the doubles while it is on topic.
I was planning to start adding in some doubles a few weeks from now as I continue building up from my current 42 mpw to 60 mpw. My reasoning for the doubles is that during this base building phase my workouts are long runs and by that point I will be doing 2 to 3 long runs (90 to 180 minutes) per week. There gets to be a point where it is impractical to add distance to the long runs due to either total running time (pushing 180 minutes) or time in regular life (2+ hour mid-week runs are very difficult to fit in). Likewise my non-long runs can't go any longer because at that point they would go well past 60 minutes each and start creeping towards 90 minutes which would make them long runs technically. So my plan was to take some of those non-long run days and do doubles so I can get the added mileage without making them too long. They would be between 35 and 60 minutes each run on these double runs.
Does that sound right or am I incorporating doubles inappropriately?
@WhatMeRunning That sounds right to me! All my runs are 6 miles or more these days (~48-54 mins minimum), and then I do a 10 mile (~85-90 min) run midweek, another 7-10 Saturday (60-90 minutes) and then my long runs (150-180 minutes) Sunday. I break up my midweek runs for a few reasons, but mostly because running more than 90 mins on a weekday morning takes way too much time. That's why I add in the other ~50 mins later in the day. It's much more managable that way. Plus in the middle of the week, I do 4 runs (~30 miles) in less than 48 hours, and that is great fatigue training! There's no way I could do 60 mpw without running doubles, and it sounds like you're in the same boat.
I think your reasoning for doubles is right on track! Gotta get to that 60 mpw somehow!
As for timing, I usually do Wednesday morning, Wednesday afternoon (thank God for a grad student's flexible schedule), Thursday morning, and Thursday evening. I hate doing evening-morning rotations... my legs are just too dead if I run at 6 pm the night before then 6 am the next morning.
Edit to add: To clarify on the midweek miles, 10 is just the long run which is not broken up; 10 is part of a longer day total of 15-17 once you add in the afternoon run, then I also have Thursday speedwork and a Thursday group run. In case anyone was wondering why the math seems off... I was just listing my 60-90+ min runs. THERE ARE TOO MANY NUMBERS/RUNS TO KEEP TRACK OF! lol
I used to do ~60 miles a week doing the following schedule:
M10, T10, W6.2, Th10, Fri 6.2, Sat 15
But I couldn't keep up with that long term. Between getting up super early in the morning for those 10 milers, and hitting 20 miles between that Mon and Tue, I just felt like by the time I get through the second 10 miler, my body just broke down halfway through the run. It was like that second half of that Tue run was just a waste of time. After I started breaking up my runs, I would complete all of them in good time, had more energy to complete. And I didn't feel like I was in a rush to get them done so I could keep an easier pace. Trying to fit in a 10 miler and then get home so I could get ready for work, I felt like I had to run like between a tempo and easy pace which is not always good to do all the time.
Now, if I know I am supposed to run an easy pace, I can manage that with a shorter run.0 -
Catching up...... The whole geese thing is funny. There's a pond a half mile down my street that used to have about 50 Canadian geese. Some of them have moved on to another pond (a mile in the other direction) so at least they've split up I guess I'm used to them and they're used to me.
Enjoyed the conversation on "doubles". Question: What if you have to run like 7pm one night and 6am the next morning? Is that okay because you slept? LOL So far my runs are usually about 24-36 hours apart. Like Friday morning, Sat morning, Sun afternoon, Tues evening, etc.
@Elise4270 Thanks for all the encouragement and having my back and all :-D
@samthepanda Way to go just getting back out there. That's the hardest part after a setback.
Welcome to @shesgotaplan and @Ashleedeathbarbie
4/1 - 5 miles on the bike around town, 3 mile walk, 45 min strength training (This is what I do when I can't run.)
4/2 - 4.5 mile RUN! (no pain!), 3 mile walk because I love spring weather
4/3 - rest day
4/4 - 3 mile run, 23 min strength training
4/5 - 4.25 mile run
4/6 - rest day (should've gotten up earlier and done strength training)
4/7 - 20 min light walk after an hour in the car, so I don't have to call this another rest day!
11.75 of 60 miles April running goal0 -
4/1 - 5.5 miles
4/2 - family day
4/3 - 5 miles
4/4 -6 - lazy butt days
4/7 - 5 miles
15 out of 100 miles
@5BeautifulDays thanks for posting the video, it had me crying, I sent the link right off to Skip to watch. Your sharp stick comment cracked me up.
@_nikkiwolf_ those are some big geese
@adrianchr92 yipes! ugly goose, bad goose
@samthepanda glad you are feeling better
@honunui I've missed your pictures and videos. I hope your son is doing well.
@ashleedeathbarbie welcome
@instantmartian you had me laughing about getting lost. Hey I work in an office park that the main street is a big cirlce and I got lost out here running one day. I made a turn that spit me out not where I thought it would and it took me a while to figure out where I was. I always like to at least drive a race course so I can see it, my boyfriend's son said to me one time "it's not like you'll be in the front and need to know where to turn". Ugh stab me why don't you. LOL He doesn't get it, it's us in the middle and back that need to know we don't have a police car leading our way!
Upcoming races:
4/10 - Bridge Street HM
5/30 - Cotton Row 10K
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Walk/run but still progess0 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »Tempo run ~= 10:36
I am so very sorry to point this out and in no way demeaning you in any way. First off, if I was running 10:36 pace, that means my legs are hurting and I needed a recovery run. Only reason I am pointing this out is that one of our local elites a couple of times decided to join us in our running group. Josh Whitehead usually wins all of the local races (either him or another guy Brandon York). The first time he joined us I asked him before our run what was his recovery pace, and he said usually it's around a 6:30 pace. I laughed and told him that 7:20-7:30 was like my tempo pace. He took it all in good fun. He was like I am just going to enjoy this morning and get to know you guys.
LOL, I know I'm slow, and in truth, it wasn't really a tempo run, It would have been closer to 10:00 or even 9:30 min/mi if I was booking it, I can go faster, but I bonk after a couple miles.
I'm still bad with terminology, and it was more of a way of making an excuse to myself because I was like 30 sec/mi faster than I planned for the run.
I've done 9:36 for 6 miles, but that's a PR speed for that distance for me.
It could have been a tempo or at least a pace that Greg McMillan calls steady state.
Tempo usually means a race pace that you can sustain for 40-60 minutes. About 30 seconds slower than that is what is known as steady state.
Tempo is comfortably hard. You are breathing heavy but not hyper ventalating. You would be able to get out one or 2 words answers while running. If you slowed down to a steady state pace, you would be able to slowly feel yourself recover (just barely).
Another way to look at it is this. There is a pace where you would be able to hit and breathing is perfectly normal. It's what we have been calling our easy conversational pace. Then there's a point where you begin to notice that your breathing starts to change. That's yout ventilatory threshold. It's where carbon dioxide production begins to outpace oxygen consumption. Or something like that. It's close to lactate threshold but independent of it. Studies show that VT is more related to turning on your fast twitch muscles than it has to do with your cardiac/metobolic output. But there seems to be a coincidental relationship between the 2.
If PR at 6 miles is a 9:36 pace ( that's about an hour's worth of running) then that sounds very much your Lactate Threshold. That assumes you can maintain that steady pace for a race for that period of time, but then if you attempted a 7th mile, you would be unable to maintain that pace.
Edit: Steady State is a pace where you are starting to accumulate lactate in your blood but at a rate that your body can still buffer and clear it. Once your lactate is accumulating at a pace that your body can no longer clear, then you crossed over your lactate threshold. Just more geeky scientific terminology.
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