Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Fat Acceptance Movement
Replies
-
Humans tend to forget the down side of a bad decision but remember upside where it is an affair with food or another person. Hence we repeat and repeat.3
-
I liked what GaleHawkins had to say. I was riding my obesity acceptance right into being disabled (overloaded arthritic knees). No more.
I really don't understand why people connect self-acceptance and not hating oneself for being fat to being okay with being unhealthy and disabled. Personally, when I accept and love myself (something that I think makes me more likely to love and accept others too), that makes me more determined to treat my body well, and pursue healthful behaviors and do what I can NOT to be disabled (not that I was ever close, as I was lucky enough to be pretty active and healthy even when fat). That's related to losing the weight.
I've been depressed and self-hating too, and that was likely to make me feel like I didn't deserve anything better, so I might as well give into slothfulness and easy comforts like food, even if I knew at the back of my head I'd feel better if I was more active and took control of my weight. I just couldn't believe I was someone who could do that. Becoming a more accepting, confident person who could decide that I could be as capable in this area of my life as others, that I wasn't worthless, was what helped.18 -
Being severely overweight or underweight for that matter is unhealthy. We are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, but all other things being equal, I do have a lower opinion of people who are obviously unhealthy than of people who appeared to be good physical condition. It's a logical reaction.9
-
ArmyofAdrian wrote: »Being severely overweight or underweight for that matter is unhealthy. We are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, but all other things being equal, I do have a lower opinion of people who are obviously unhealthy than of people who appeared to be good physical condition. It's a logical reaction.
Seriously? It may be logical for you, but it is not for me.
How do you know that they are obviously unhealthy?
The human race still has a long way to go.............
7 -
How do I know an obese person or a malnurished person is unhealthy? Is that a real question?9
-
ArmyofAdrian wrote: »Being severely overweight or underweight for that matter is unhealthy. We are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, but all other things being equal, I do have a lower opinion of people who are obviously unhealthy than of people who appeared to be good physical condition. It's a logical reaction.
I don't think we as a species are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. You might be, but I'd think you'd be in a minority, there.6 -
ArmyofAdrian wrote: »How do I know an obese person or a malnurished person is unhealthy? Is that a real question?
Yes, it is definitely a real question3 -
When I see an obese person, my first thought is empathy and compassion. I have impulses of wanting to help, as a former very overweight individual. I know it can feel overwhelming, and difficult to just get started (thanks MFP). Truth be told, I don't support the idea of fat acceptance on a personal level, though I do not support discrimination in a public sense. And I totally cannot get behind a movement that celebrates it, or creates a "movement". I would support my tax dollars going toward some serious health and nutrition education, beginning in kindergarten. Now that would save us plenty of money down the road.11
-
snowflake930 wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »How do I know an obese person or a malnurished person is unhealthy? Is that a real question?
Yes, it is definitely a real question
I base that on the literally millions of studies done on the subject which have reached that conclusion.6 -
ArmyofAdrian wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »How do I know an obese person or a malnurished person is unhealthy? Is that a real question?
Yes, it is definitely a real question
I base that on the literally millions of studies done on the subject which have reached that conclusion.
So you are telling me that every person that is overweight or underweight is unhealthy? And, your "literally millions of studies" have concluded this?
3 -
snowflake930 wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »How do I know an obese person or a malnurished person is unhealthy? Is that a real question?
Yes, it is definitely a real question
I base that on the literally millions of studies done on the subject which have reached that conclusion.
So you are telling me that every person that is overweight or underweight is unhealthy? And, your "literally millions of studies" have concluded this?
No, they weren't my studies. The millions of studies which conclude that obesity and malnourishment are unhealthy were done by millions of different researchers over several decades and across many countries and cultures performed by various universities, foundations and governments. If you have any studies to which you can point to show that obesity or anorexia have no detrimental effect on health, I'd certainly be interested to see them.16 -
Late to the party.
I think the basic idea is good, but agree that many of these individuals attack those who improve their health or physicality. In general, regardless of size shape health what have you, we should not be "shaming" anyone. It does little to no good.
However, I really hate the concept that people are pushing that when they are morbidly obese they are healthy. Sure, there are people who can be heavy and have good blood markers, and people who can be thin and have bad blood markers. This is the exception, not the rule, and these movements peddle it as such. So people are assuming that because Jill is heavy and perfectly healthy and John is slim and dying, that they can live like Jill. And odds are, Jill's lifestyle just has not caught up with her yet. Her joints are likely deteriorating, and her heart is probably struggling. Ideally, if society could come to accept everyone and not shame, that'd be super. But calling attention to facts is not shaming, and these are lies that are peddled.16 -
This content has been removed.
-
ArmyofAdrian wrote: »Being severely overweight or underweight for that matter is unhealthy. We are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, but all other things being equal, I do have a lower opinion of people who are obviously unhealthy than of people who appeared to be good physical condition. It's a logical reaction.
I don't think we as a species are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. You might be, but I'd think you'd be in a minority, there.
In scientific circles, there is widespread agreement that disgust evolved to motivate the avoidance of contact with disease-causing organisms. But hey, there are some weird fetishes out there, so whatever floats your boat.9 -
ArmyofAdrian wrote: »Being severely overweight or underweight for that matter is unhealthy. We are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, but all other things being equal, I do have a lower opinion of people who are obviously unhealthy than of people who appeared to be good physical condition. It's a logical reaction.
I am naturally repulsed by people who decide to have lower opinions of people based on the above.
I also think that everyone is on the spectrum somewhere in terms of healthy and unhealthy. I imagine if I took a good look at the life of the above poster, I could see a lot where I could have a lower opinion....if I was that type.
Clearly you are that type.3 -
ArmyofAdrian wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »Being severely overweight or underweight for that matter is unhealthy. We are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, but all other things being equal, I do have a lower opinion of people who are obviously unhealthy than of people who appeared to be good physical condition. It's a logical reaction.
I don't think we as a species are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. You might be, but I'd think you'd be in a minority, there.
In scientific circles, there is widespread agreement that disgust evolved to motivate the avoidance of contact with disease-causing organisms. But hey, there are some weird fetishes out there, so whatever floats your boat.
If you would be so kind as to cite you references here I would be grateful.
An evolutionary advantage to avoiding people who are overweight actually does not make any sense.
But the good news is that if there is widespread agreement, you will favor me with a nice list of specific scientific references.
8 -
Obese people cannot be healthy. But people shouldn't be shamed or bullied for it.12
-
They will shame me just as much for eating very healthy, exercising and being my best as much as a thinner person would shame me for being an ugly lazy sack of lard.4
-
ArmyofAdrian wrote: »Being severely overweight or underweight for that matter is unhealthy. We are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, but all other things being equal, I do have a lower opinion of people who are obviously unhealthy than of people who appeared to be good physical condition. It's a logical reaction.
Are you also naturally repulsed by people who live in high pollution areas or those who have desk jobs? If you want to go this route, being overweight is evolutionarily attractive and is preferable to having a normal BMI from a purely evolutionary sense. Attractiveness is part social construct part personal preference. In some places of the world obese women are seen as the epitome of attractiveness and little girls used to be force fed to put on weight and be attractive enough to find a husband.12 -
ArmyofAdrian wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »Being severely overweight or underweight for that matter is unhealthy. We are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, but all other things being equal, I do have a lower opinion of people who are obviously unhealthy than of people who appeared to be good physical condition. It's a logical reaction.
I don't think we as a species are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. You might be, but I'd think you'd be in a minority, there.
In scientific circles, there is widespread agreement that disgust evolved to motivate the avoidance of contact with disease-causing organisms. But hey, there are some weird fetishes out there, so whatever floats your boat.
If you would be so kind as to cite you references here I would be grateful.
An evolutionary advantage to avoiding people who are overweight actually does not make any sense.
But the good news is that if there is widespread agreement, you will favor me with a nice list of specific scientific references.
I'll save you the burden of a simple google search. http://pdescioli.com/papers/tybur.etal.disgust.PsychRev13.pdf
5 -
ArmyofAdrian wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »Being severely overweight or underweight for that matter is unhealthy. We are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, but all other things being equal, I do have a lower opinion of people who are obviously unhealthy than of people who appeared to be good physical condition. It's a logical reaction.
I don't think we as a species are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. You might be, but I'd think you'd be in a minority, there.
In scientific circles, there is widespread agreement that disgust evolved to motivate the avoidance of contact with disease-causing organisms. But hey, there are some weird fetishes out there, so whatever floats your boat.
There's a difference between unhealthy [behaviors] and disease-causing organisms. Disgust having evolved so we don't eat things that are spoiled and could make us sick is different than being disgusted by anything deemed unhealthy. Deeming something "unhealthy" is such a personal thing, and that's my point.4 -
ArmyofAdrian wrote: »ArmyofAdrian wrote: »Being severely overweight or underweight for that matter is unhealthy. We are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, but all other things being equal, I do have a lower opinion of people who are obviously unhealthy than of people who appeared to be good physical condition. It's a logical reaction.
I don't think we as a species are naturally repulsed by things that are unhealthy. You might be, but I'd think you'd be in a minority, there.
In scientific circles, there is widespread agreement that disgust evolved to motivate the avoidance of contact with disease-causing organisms. But hey, there are some weird fetishes out there, so whatever floats your boat.
There's a difference between unhealthy [behaviors] and disease-causing organisms. Disgust having evolved so we don't eat things that are spoiled and could make us sick is different than being disgusted by anything deemed unhealthy. Deeming something "unhealthy" is such a personal thing, and that's my point.
I don't "deem" obesity unhealthy any more than I "deem" cancer unhealthy. Each are empirically unhealthy. You can go ahead and pretend obesity isn't unhealthy, but that leaves me to wonder what you are doing on a website dedicated to physical fitness, since you see no difference between the obese and the physically fit in terms of health.20 -
ArmyofAdrian wrote: »
I don't "deem" obesity unhealthy any more than I "deem" cancer unhealthy. Each are empirically unhealthy. You can go ahead and pretend obesity isn't unhealthy, but that leaves me to wonder what you are doing on a website dedicated to physical fitness, since you see no difference between the obese and the physically fit in terms of health.
I think they're more referring to your "evolution of disgust" portion than your "obesity is unhealthy" portion. Like your statement could be taken as "Human beings have evolved to be disgusted by unhealthy things, like obesity." And they are refuting it with "Viewing individuals as unhealthy and therefore disgusting is subjective to the person making the judgement, and is not so black and white."
Kind of like, if humans evolved to see fat people as disgusting due to their unhealthiness, then why would there be people with those weird fat fetishes? And there are a lot of them.
Obesity is unhealthy for sure, there's no denying that. But I don't think Snikkins was trying to.3 -
Is Christine the same person at 110 as she would be at 200. The size of the package may change but the true gift to humanity (you)remains the same. The YOU is not just Christine but everyone.Christine_72 wrote: »I will never accept myself being overweight, it's just an easy excuse to remain that way..2 -
I don't believe in fat shaming...But people are getting bigger and bigger, especially in America...ALL the medical data suggests that being obese(or morbidly obese) is bad for your health...I am obese, and I know that I'm too damn big, which is why I'm on this website...That said, it is VERY hard after a certain age to lose weight AND TO KEEP IT OFF! But my health numbers keeps me here...I still feel at this size that I could have a heart attack at any time, and this is what motivates me...5
-
Who engages in so-called fat-shaming? I can think of parents and adolescents, but having been excessively obese all my life I can't recall an employer who was, a spouse who was, a child who was, a doctor who was, certainly not a pastor who was. Even my parents were not. My childhood neighbors and classmates availed themselves of a clever rhyme which prompted me to choose to go by my middle name, which doesn't rhyme with any known description of adipose tissue. Maybe girls are meaner to one another about it. Maybe aerodynamically efficient people are hasty to accuse helpers of shaming. It scarcely matters. Humans have an innate need to be superior to other humans. All the protected groups of people are excluded from abuse and the only group left that everyone wants to hate is fat people. So let them. Let them hate people who don't exist anymore.6
-
People who love themselves take care of themselves. This movement seems to be about promoting a denial of the health risks associated with obesity, mixed with a strange form of narcissism.13
-
ubermofish wrote: »Obese people cannot be healthy. But people shouldn't be shamed or bullied for it.
Why not? Particularly at the lower levels of obesity (class I obesity) there isn't a very significant impact on health. Being normal weight but sedentary shortens your life expectancy by more than being class I obese but moderately active. An active, nonsmoking class I obese person can easily be well above the population average in terms of health.
What is true is that all other factors being equal, an obese person would be healthier if they reduced their weight. That doesn't mean obese people can't be healthy.13 -
rankinsect wrote: »ubermofish wrote: »Obese people cannot be healthy. But people shouldn't be shamed or bullied for it.
Why not? Particularly at the lower levels of obesity (class I obesity) there isn't a very significant impact on health. Being normal weight but sedentary shortens your life expectancy by more than being class I obese but moderately active. An active, nonsmoking class I obese person can easily be well above the population average in terms of health.
What is true is that all other factors being equal, an obese person would be healthier if they reduced their weight. That doesn't mean obese people can't be healthy.
Obesity by definition is unhealthy.4 -
ArmyofAdrian wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »ubermofish wrote: »Obese people cannot be healthy. But people shouldn't be shamed or bullied for it.
Why not? Particularly at the lower levels of obesity (class I obesity) there isn't a very significant impact on health. Being normal weight but sedentary shortens your life expectancy by more than being class I obese but moderately active. An active, nonsmoking class I obese person can easily be well above the population average in terms of health.
What is true is that all other factors being equal, an obese person would be healthier if they reduced their weight. That doesn't mean obese people can't be healthy.
Obesity by definition is unhealthy.
So is being sedentary. So is eating medium rare meat, or drinking more than two drinks in an evening. So are any of a million things.
Simply having one aspect of your diet or lifestyle that is unhealthy doesn't mean that you are unhealthy as a person. By that standard, nobody is healthy, as everyone has something they could do to be healthier than they are.14
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 424 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions