What Do You Think of the "Free to Be Hairy" Movement
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I know a lot of you are sick of this discussion... but it seems to me it's about much more than body hair, as many of you have pointed out.
This is a quote from something I wrote for another context:
In “Making Up Is Hard to Do,” Sheila Jeffreys “critically examines the claim that everyday beauty practices are good and useful aspects of women’s lives” (165). She analyzes the history of gendered beauty practices such as wearing makeup that have come to be accepted not only as “natural” but, in many workplaces, as a requirement for women’s—but not men’s—appearance. The pressure for women to appear “appropriately” is felt not only in the workplace, where women can be penalized for failure to wear makeup (or to shave or wax), but also in the mental health field, where too much attention to makeup and appearance is pathologized as indicative of a psychological disorder while at the same time failure to pay “enough” attention to appearance is also perceived as an indicator that a woman is psychologically unfit. Ultimately, Jeffreys makes a strong case that personal grooming practices that have become normalized for women are not “normal” or “natural” but rather culturally harmful practices that demand a great deal of women’s time, energy, and money. Some beauty practices such as depilation can be painful; some hair dye and makeup is toxic; and many women spend years of their lives engaged in beauty practices—time they could be spending more productively in other realms of their lives.
(Of course, men are pressured to live up to unattainable standards as well, but not penalized for transgressions of beauty norms to the extent women are, nor subject to so many.)8 -
This is the thread the never ends. I never knew people were so passionate about body hair etc. I guess ya gotta find something to *kitten* about, might as well be body hair! I'm gonna start a movement to get pineapple off of pizza.1
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_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »peppermintpudgy wrote: »I know a lot of you are sick of this discussion... but it seems to me it's about much more than body hair, as many of you have pointed out.
This is a quote from something I wrote for another context:
In “Making Up Is Hard to Do,” Sheila Jeffreys “critically examines the claim that everyday beauty practices are good and useful aspects of women’s lives” (165). She analyzes the history of gendered beauty practices such as wearing makeup that have come to be accepted not only as “natural” but, in many workplaces, as a requirement for women’s—but not men’s—appearance. The pressure for women to appear “appropriately” is felt not only in the workplace, where women can be penalized for failure to wear makeup (or to shave or wax), but also in the mental health field, where too much attention to makeup and appearance is pathologized as indicative of a psychological disorder while at the same time failure to pay “enough” attention to appearance is also perceived as an indicator that a woman is psychologically unfit. Ultimately, Jeffreys makes a strong case that personal grooming practices that have become normalized for women are not “normal” or “natural” but rather culturally harmful practices that demand a great deal of women’s time, energy, and money. Some beauty practices such as depilation can be painful; some hair dye and makeup is toxic; and many women spend years of their lives engaged in beauty practices—time they could be spending more productively in other realms of their lives.
(Of course, men are pressured to live up to unattainable standards as well, but not penalized for transgressions of beauty norms to the extent women are, nor subject to so many.)
So you're saying all I need is a sword and an ax?1 -
Cameron_1969 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »peppermintpudgy wrote: »I know a lot of you are sick of this discussion... but it seems to me it's about much more than body hair, as many of you have pointed out.
This is a quote from something I wrote for another context:
In “Making Up Is Hard to Do,” Sheila Jeffreys “critically examines the claim that everyday beauty practices are good and useful aspects of women’s lives” (165). She analyzes the history of gendered beauty practices such as wearing makeup that have come to be accepted not only as “natural” but, in many workplaces, as a requirement for women’s—but not men’s—appearance. The pressure for women to appear “appropriately” is felt not only in the workplace, where women can be penalized for failure to wear makeup (or to shave or wax), but also in the mental health field, where too much attention to makeup and appearance is pathologized as indicative of a psychological disorder while at the same time failure to pay “enough” attention to appearance is also perceived as an indicator that a woman is psychologically unfit. Ultimately, Jeffreys makes a strong case that personal grooming practices that have become normalized for women are not “normal” or “natural” but rather culturally harmful practices that demand a great deal of women’s time, energy, and money. Some beauty practices such as depilation can be painful; some hair dye and makeup is toxic; and many women spend years of their lives engaged in beauty practices—time they could be spending more productively in other realms of their lives.
(Of course, men are pressured to live up to unattainable standards as well, but not penalized for transgressions of beauty norms to the extent women are, nor subject to so many.)
So you're saying all I need is a sword and an ax?
You are ignoring (and lacking) the most important trait of He-Man. The Mullet.1 -
_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »peppermintpudgy wrote: »I know a lot of you are sick of this discussion... but it seems to me it's about much more than body hair, as many of you have pointed out.
This is a quote from something I wrote for another context:
In “Making Up Is Hard to Do,” Sheila Jeffreys “critically examines the claim that everyday beauty practices are good and useful aspects of women’s lives” (165). She analyzes the history of gendered beauty practices such as wearing makeup that have come to be accepted not only as “natural” but, in many workplaces, as a requirement for women’s—but not men’s—appearance. The pressure for women to appear “appropriately” is felt not only in the workplace, where women can be penalized for failure to wear makeup (or to shave or wax), but also in the mental health field, where too much attention to makeup and appearance is pathologized as indicative of a psychological disorder while at the same time failure to pay “enough” attention to appearance is also perceived as an indicator that a woman is psychologically unfit. Ultimately, Jeffreys makes a strong case that personal grooming practices that have become normalized for women are not “normal” or “natural” but rather culturally harmful practices that demand a great deal of women’s time, energy, and money. Some beauty practices such as depilation can be painful; some hair dye and makeup is toxic; and many women spend years of their lives engaged in beauty practices—time they could be spending more productively in other realms of their lives.
(Of course, men are pressured to live up to unattainable standards as well, but not penalized for transgressions of beauty norms to the extent women are, nor subject to so many.)
Lololol1 -
It's more of a bowl I think.Peter_Brady wrote: »Cameron_1969 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »peppermintpudgy wrote: »I know a lot of you are sick of this discussion... but it seems to me it's about much more than body hair, as many of you have pointed out.
This is a quote from something I wrote for another context:
In “Making Up Is Hard to Do,” Sheila Jeffreys “critically examines the claim that everyday beauty practices are good and useful aspects of women’s lives” (165). She analyzes the history of gendered beauty practices such as wearing makeup that have come to be accepted not only as “natural” but, in many workplaces, as a requirement for women’s—but not men’s—appearance. The pressure for women to appear “appropriately” is felt not only in the workplace, where women can be penalized for failure to wear makeup (or to shave or wax), but also in the mental health field, where too much attention to makeup and appearance is pathologized as indicative of a psychological disorder while at the same time failure to pay “enough” attention to appearance is also perceived as an indicator that a woman is psychologically unfit. Ultimately, Jeffreys makes a strong case that personal grooming practices that have become normalized for women are not “normal” or “natural” but rather culturally harmful practices that demand a great deal of women’s time, energy, and money. Some beauty practices such as depilation can be painful; some hair dye and makeup is toxic; and many women spend years of their lives engaged in beauty practices—time they could be spending more productively in other realms of their lives.
(Of course, men are pressured to live up to unattainable standards as well, but not penalized for transgressions of beauty norms to the extent women are, nor subject to so many.)
So you're saying all I need is a sword and an ax?
You are ignoring (and lacking) the most important trait of He-Man. The Mullet.1 -
saramickeydee wrote: »
It's more of a bowl I think.Peter_Brady wrote: »Cameron_1969 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »peppermintpudgy wrote: »I know a lot of you are sick of this discussion... but it seems to me it's about much more than body hair, as many of you have pointed out.
This is a quote from something I wrote for another context:
In “Making Up Is Hard to Do,” Sheila Jeffreys “critically examines the claim that everyday beauty practices are good and useful aspects of women’s lives” (165). She analyzes the history of gendered beauty practices such as wearing makeup that have come to be accepted not only as “natural” but, in many workplaces, as a requirement for women’s—but not men’s—appearance. The pressure for women to appear “appropriately” is felt not only in the workplace, where women can be penalized for failure to wear makeup (or to shave or wax), but also in the mental health field, where too much attention to makeup and appearance is pathologized as indicative of a psychological disorder while at the same time failure to pay “enough” attention to appearance is also perceived as an indicator that a woman is psychologically unfit. Ultimately, Jeffreys makes a strong case that personal grooming practices that have become normalized for women are not “normal” or “natural” but rather culturally harmful practices that demand a great deal of women’s time, energy, and money. Some beauty practices such as depilation can be painful; some hair dye and makeup is toxic; and many women spend years of their lives engaged in beauty practices—time they could be spending more productively in other realms of their lives.
(Of course, men are pressured to live up to unattainable standards as well, but not penalized for transgressions of beauty norms to the extent women are, nor subject to so many.)
So you're saying all I need is a sword and an ax?
You are ignoring (and lacking) the most important trait of He-Man. The Mullet.
A Bowllet
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Oh my gosh the picture!
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@peppermintpudgy Beautifully said.2
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peppermintpudgy wrote: »I know a lot of you are sick of this discussion... but it seems to me it's about much more than body hair, as many of you have pointed out.
This is a quote from something I wrote for another context:
In “Making Up Is Hard to Do,” Sheila Jeffreys “critically examines the claim that everyday beauty practices are good and useful aspects of women’s lives” (165). She analyzes the history of gendered beauty practices such as wearing makeup that have come to be accepted not only as “natural” but, in many workplaces, as a requirement for women’s—but not men’s—appearance. The pressure for women to appear “appropriately” is felt not only in the workplace, where women can be penalized for failure to wear makeup (or to shave or wax), but also in the mental health field, where too much attention to makeup and appearance is pathologized as indicative of a psychological disorder while at the same time failure to pay “enough” attention to appearance is also perceived as an indicator that a woman is psychologically unfit. Ultimately, Jeffreys makes a strong case that personal grooming practices that have become normalized for women are not “normal” or “natural” but rather culturally harmful practices that demand a great deal of women’s time, energy, and money. Some beauty practices such as depilation can be painful; some hair dye and makeup is toxic; and many women spend years of their lives engaged in beauty practices—time they could be spending more productively in other realms of their lives.
(Of course, men are pressured to live up to unattainable standards as well, but not penalized for transgressions of beauty norms to the extent women are, nor subject to so many.)
sooooo well said!2 -
Yes I agree with the bolded too - It isn't about body hair per se but about expectations and pressures put on women - partly done by the shame and disgust directed toward women who do not strive or reach these artificial ideals.
Yes of course it is fine for people to do what they want with their own body ( I do shave legs and underarms myself, none of us are immune from cultural influences) and of course it is fine you have a preference about appearances of others - just like some people are attracted to blondes or whatever.
But that doesn't equal calling the people who are not of your attraction preference or who don't do as you do gross or unhygienic or not making an effort etc.
and this only seems to be done to women - if men do or do not remove body hair it doesn't carry the same connotations.1 -
paperpudding wrote: »Yes I agree with the bolded too - It isn't about body hair per se but about expectations and pressures put on women - partly done by the shame and disgust directed toward women who do not strive or reach these artificial ideals.
Yes of course it is fine for people to do what they want with their own body ( I do shave legs and underarms myself, none of us are immune from cultural influences) and of course it is fine you have a preference about appearances of others - just like some people are attracted to blondes or whatever.
But that doesn't equal calling the people who are not of your attraction preference or who don't do as you do gross or unhygienic or not making an effort etc.
and this only seems to be done to women - if men do or do not remove body hair it doesn't carry the same connotations.
I think you'll find that many men and women would call a man who shaves his legs or arm pits gay, womanly or similar adjectives.1 -
Well not in this thread they haven't - although the attitudes to women have been expressed several times.
And interesting that men can do nothing ie be their natural un hair removed bodies, but women cannot.
Natural men are ok but we want to glorify artificial concepts of beauty for women.
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paperpudding wrote: »Well not in this thread they haven't - although the attitudes to women have been expressed several times.
And interesting that men can do nothing ie be their natural un hair removed bodies, but women cannot.
Natural men are ok but we want to glorify artificial concepts of beauty for women.
Well thats right, this is a thread about the free to be hairy movement. It doesnt surprise me that people arent talking about their thoughts on men shaving, it doesnt really belong here.
Look I'm not disagreeing with your main point or saying that men have it just as bad as women, i just felt the impulse to nitpick that one minor detail.1 -
paperpudding wrote: »Well not in this thread they haven't - although the attitudes to women have been expressed several times.
And interesting that men can do nothing ie be their natural un hair removed bodies, but women cannot.
Natural men are ok but we want to glorify artificial concepts of beauty for women.
Well thats right, this is a thread about the free to be hairy movement. It doesnt surprise me that people arent talking about their thoughts on men shaving, it doesnt really belong here.
Look I'm not disagreeing with your main point or saying that men have it just as bad as women, i just felt the impulse to nitpick that one minor detail.
Well, you did make ME think. And that's good. It's good to question our own prejudices. So in that light: It's true that I find overly groomed men unattractive, but I TRY not to make judgements about their sexual orientation or masculinity.4 -
_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Well not in this thread they haven't - although the attitudes to women have been expressed several times.
And interesting that men can do nothing ie be their natural un hair removed bodies, but women cannot.
Natural men are ok but we want to glorify artificial concepts of beauty for women.
so there's nothing wrong with fat gross dudes who can only grow a neckbeard then eh?
but there is. everybody makes fun of them. rightly so. just google neckbeard meme.
and women can do anything they want. if you or anybody wants to grow their leg/armpit hair out 6 feet long, knock yourself out, nobody can/will stop you. but its not what most guys want. most women would look at you as aberrant as well if you did I'd think.
Trying to change societal standards of what most heterosexual men want by growing your leg hair out is the same as hardcore christians believing they can "pray away the gay".
its not going to happen.
I know for myself, I'm not trying to change what guys want. What I'm trying to change is the negative attitude thrown at women who don't shave (even those who just skip a day are judged).
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