I understand and then I don't (scales and weighing and calorie worrying)
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mskessler89 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »jane, I'm not going to refute every off track analogy you brought up. The more we discuss, the more chances for jerks and detractors to chime in with irrelevant stuffs, name calling, etc. It's sad that we can't discuss objectively. I stand by my logic that when you said you have tried the not weighing approach and it didn't work so well, that means you don't know it, specially you don't know what the millions that do not weigh and succeed know. I think one poster (I assume in the counter camp) equates that (not weighing and succeeding) to having a magic wand.
What logic? There hasn't been a measurable amount of logic in a single one of your posts. I couldn't even eyeball the amount, there was so little of it.
You jump in out of nowhere .. .and think your post adds much value and logic to the debate?
For those who are genuinely interested, what I was debating with jane about was I liken her claim that she knows the not weighing approach but "it didn't work well" (her words) for her to something like..someone who said she knows how to drive but ends up with lots of crashes. So, to me that person doesn't really know how to drive. But jane probably begs to differ.
I imagine Jane knows how to drive--you're safe on the street. By the way, all your talk about "not knowing" how to lose without counting, has gotten me really curious. Care to put your money where your mouth is (or keyboard) and explain how you do it, and what success you've had--how much you've lost, are you at goal, etc.? All this talk has made me wonder....since you say there's no magic wand.
It's frighteningly simple. When I eat, I truly eat, enjoyably, satiately and when I "don't" eat, I eat light, mainly for nutrition. I call the latter phase "tuning out eating".
Obviously I put health first. I don't eat too much or too little to the point that makes me feel sick. Because I do both "phases" out of desires, it feels easy. In other words I don't eat while feeling I need to lose or while I am losing, I want to eat! No contradiction. The only small fluctuation is how long (1 week vs 2, 3 weeks) it might take to lose if I happen to have too many eating occasions.
At this point in time the desire to lose is more, thus I'm losing. If I happen to gain due to liking eating too much, so be it. But I know if I could drop all 26+ overweight lbs in 4 month time to be in normal bmi now, I could do that anytime, provided that my desire is there.
I don't adhere to 24 hr time frame. No need for daily moderation, saying no to friends, watching every little thing. No worry about constantly having to look for foods. I think there's another lady who said she hates having to find foods to eat.
If you could create such eating behaviors/patterns like I have, then you would lose. No magic wand.
I'm writing this out because I really don't want anyone reading your post and feeling like they're "doing it wrong." There are many, many reasons why people can't or don't want to create these behaviors.
First, your hunger signals seem to work well. If you've had a lot of calories the day before, your body doesn't fight you if you don't eat much the next day. Others do not have such reliable hunger signals, possibly from yo-yo dieting, from eating disorders, or becoming over/underweight because their hunger signals were never reliable to begin with. Others confuse the compulsion to eat with hunger, and when we're constantly surrounded by food, it can be difficult to turn off that compulsion. I do think intuitive eating and self-regulation is ideal. However, I don't think it's something that can be easily learned if you don't grow up doing it, and I think a lot of people would get frustrated trying to learn it and failing at it. That's why we have other methods.
Next, you're not attempting to lose weight on any sort of timeline. Most people do have timelines for some reason or another:
-Need to get weight off as fast as possible for health-related reasons
-Trying to get pregnant and can't until weight is lost
-Relative needs an organ donation, you're a match, can't donate until weight is lost
-Weigh-in for a military job
-Health insurance penalties
-Fitness competition
-Looking hot in a bikini during the summer
just to name a few. So the willy-nilly, "maybe I'll lose 1 lb in 3 weeks instead of 1 week" is not optimal for many people.
Daily moderation may help someone mentally much better. If someone uses up all their "treat" calories in one day and has to stick to a nutrient-dense diet the rest of the week, they may not enjoy it. Personal enjoyment of one's diet is going to be the #1 reason for adherence.
And this all ties in to possible reasons to use a scale - a scale helps someone with poor intuitive eating learn portion sizes. It helps someone on a stricter timeline meet their weight loss goals on time. It helps ensure the daily treat isn't blowing out the person's calories. Some people find using a scale helpful, so they do. Some find it necessary. Some find it useful for a time, but knowledge and good habits build and then they can let go of it.
There is nothing wrong or superior with your way of eating. There's nothing wrong or superior with not using a scale and finding other methods of exercising portion control. There's nothing wrong or superior with using a scale. These are all matters of personal preference that help individuals adhere to a healthy lifestyle. I have tried all of these and a couple of other tools, and I use the ones that work best for me.
You just don't get it. Her way is less rudimentary.4 -
mskessler89 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »jane, I'm not going to refute every off track analogy you brought up. The more we discuss, the more chances for jerks and detractors to chime in with irrelevant stuffs, name calling, etc. It's sad that we can't discuss objectively. I stand by my logic that when you said you have tried the not weighing approach and it didn't work so well, that means you don't know it, specially you don't know what the millions that do not weigh and succeed know. I think one poster (I assume in the counter camp) equates that (not weighing and succeeding) to having a magic wand.
What logic? There hasn't been a measurable amount of logic in a single one of your posts. I couldn't even eyeball the amount, there was so little of it.
You jump in out of nowhere .. .and think your post adds much value and logic to the debate?
For those who are genuinely interested, what I was debating with jane about was I liken her claim that she knows the not weighing approach but "it didn't work well" (her words) for her to something like..someone who said she knows how to drive but ends up with lots of crashes. So, to me that person doesn't really know how to drive. But jane probably begs to differ.
I imagine Jane knows how to drive--you're safe on the street. By the way, all your talk about "not knowing" how to lose without counting, has gotten me really curious. Care to put your money where your mouth is (or keyboard) and explain how you do it, and what success you've had--how much you've lost, are you at goal, etc.? All this talk has made me wonder....since you say there's no magic wand.
It's frighteningly simple. When I eat, I truly eat, enjoyably, satiately and when I "don't" eat, I eat light, mainly for nutrition. I call the latter phase "tuning out eating".
Obviously I put health first. I don't eat too much or too little to the point that makes me feel sick. Because I do both "phases" out of desires, it feels easy. In other words I don't eat while feeling I need to lose or while I am losing, I want to eat! No contradiction. The only small fluctuation is how long (1 week vs 2, 3 weeks) it might take to lose if I happen to have too many eating occasions.
At this point in time the desire to lose is more, thus I'm losing. If I happen to gain due to liking eating too much, so be it. But I know if I could drop all 26+ overweight lbs in 4 month time to be in normal bmi now, I could do that anytime, provided that my desire is there.
I don't adhere to 24 hr time frame. No need for daily moderation, saying no to friends, watching every little thing. No worry about constantly having to look for foods. I think there's another lady who said she hates having to find foods to eat.
If you could create such eating behaviors/patterns like I have, then you would lose. No magic wand.
I'm writing this out because I really don't want anyone reading your post and feeling like they're "doing it wrong." There are many, many reasons why people can't or don't want to create these behaviors.
First, your hunger signals seem to work well. If you've had a lot of calories the day before, your body doesn't fight you if you don't eat much the next day. Others do not have such reliable hunger signals, possibly from yo-yo dieting, from eating disorders, or becoming over/underweight because their hunger signals were never reliable to begin with. Others confuse the compulsion to eat with hunger, and when we're constantly surrounded by food, it can be difficult to turn off that compulsion. I do think intuitive eating and self-regulation is ideal. However, I don't think it's something that can be easily learned if you don't grow up doing it, and I think a lot of people would get frustrated trying to learn it and failing at it. That's why we have other methods.
Next, you're not attempting to lose weight on any sort of timeline. Most people do have timelines for some reason or another:
-Need to get weight off as fast as possible for health-related reasons
-Trying to get pregnant and can't until weight is lost
-Relative needs an organ donation, you're a match, can't donate until weight is lost
-Weigh-in for a military job
-Health insurance penalties
-Fitness competition
-Looking hot in a bikini during the summer
just to name a few. So the willy-nilly, "maybe I'll lose 1 lb in 3 weeks instead of 1 week" is not optimal for many people.
Daily moderation may help someone mentally much better. If someone uses up all their "treat" calories in one day and has to stick to a nutrient-dense diet the rest of the week, they may not enjoy it. Personal enjoyment of one's diet is going to be the #1 reason for adherence.
And this all ties in to possible reasons to use a scale - a scale helps someone with poor intuitive eating learn portion sizes. It helps someone on a stricter timeline meet their weight loss goals on time. It helps ensure the daily treat isn't blowing out the person's calories. Some people find using a scale helpful, so they do. Some find it necessary. Some find it useful for a time, but knowledge and good habits build and then they can let go of it.
There is nothing wrong or superior with your way of eating. There's nothing wrong or superior with not using a scale and finding other methods of exercising portion control. There's nothing wrong or superior with using a scale. These are all matters of personal preference that help individuals adhere to a healthy lifestyle. I have tried all of these and a couple of other tools, and I use the ones that work best for me.
You just don't get it. Her way is less rudimentary.
I know, I know. I keep getting into car crashes with my shovel while pretending to be a tour guide.17 -
lauraesh0384 wrote: »Why would someone want to overestimate how many calories they're consuming when they could make sure their calories are accurate and be able to eat more food? I wouldn't want to short change myself when it comes to food. If it works for you, that's awesome. I prefer to weigh my food because it really takes the guesswork out of it. Not to mention, if I didn't weigh my food I would still be at 175 lbs wondering why the weight isn't dropping and thinking I'm doing something wrong. I was doing something wrong. I was consuming more calories than I burned. I'm at 161 lbs so weighing my food is crucial. Once I started using a food scale the weight literally started melting off.
Awesome!
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BiggDaddy58 wrote: »Thank you and spot on! I was thinking this when I wrote the post and I'm sure I could have phrased it better..but whatever. At some point..can't you just get rid of the scale? If you have been at this awhile, had success..weighed numerous amounts of food..don't you have a pretty good idea of where you're at and how much food it really is?
Or is it a fear of gaining weight back? A fear of having your success tool taken away? I am just curious and this is a discussion board..and we're all in this for the long haul (I hope..or maybe not?)
For me, I won't stop weighing, and it's not about fear. It's more of, why would I give up this fantastic tool that I love and that helps me easily see and know exactly what I'm eating? To me it would be like taking the gas gauge out of my car. In fact, that's a perfect analogy. My husband's gas gauge in his truck is broken. He manages to figure out when he needs gas anyway, and doesn't run out on the side of the road. Partly by watching his tripometer, and partly by just knowing how much he drives in a normal week and when he should need gas. I HATE driving his truck. Why anyone would willingly give up a simple gauge that alerts them when they are low on gas is beyond me. Ditto for giving up the food scale. Why would I want to go without that information when I don't have to???13 -
michelleepotter wrote: »BiggDaddy58 wrote: »Thank you and spot on! I was thinking this when I wrote the post and I'm sure I could have phrased it better..but whatever. At some point..can't you just get rid of the scale? If you have been at this awhile, had success..weighed numerous amounts of food..don't you have a pretty good idea of where you're at and how much food it really is?
Or is it a fear of gaining weight back? A fear of having your success tool taken away? I am just curious and this is a discussion board..and we're all in this for the long haul (I hope..or maybe not?)
For me, I won't stop weighing, and it's not about fear. It's more of, why would I give up this fantastic tool that I love and that helps me easily see and know exactly what I'm eating? To me it would be like taking the gas gauge out of my car. In fact, that's a perfect analogy. My husband's gas gauge in his truck is broken. He manages to figure out when he needs gas anyway, and doesn't run out on the side of the road. Partly by watching his tripometer, and partly by just knowing how much he drives in a normal week and when he should need gas. I HATE driving his truck. Why anyone would willingly give up a simple gauge that alerts them when they are low on gas is beyond me. Ditto for giving up the food scale. Why would I want to go without that information when I don't have to???
Now this is an awesome analogy.7 -
I weigh and measure periodically, mostly because it keeps me in check. For example, a tablespoon of almond butter is very calorie dense, so my eyeball of a tablespoon could be 1.5-2 times as much as a measured tablespoon, or 16grams. I don't weigh or measure every single thing all the time, but it does help gauge the amounts. And what works for one person may not work for another. If I weighed every single thing I ate, I'd give up logging very quickly!0
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The moment I have to weigh food is a moment I stop dieting. But I do measure. Love MFP. 26 pounds and will have reached my goal. Whatever works we must find the diet that works for us and for me counting calories is amazing. Because I can enjoy all the foods I love while I lose weight.0
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Talking about food scales anyone know of a food scale big enough to use regular sized plates? Would be so much better if I didn't need to work around the size limit0
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queenliz99 wrote: »
And when it ends up on the floor because of poor balancing? But yeah I've done that before0 -
mskessler89 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »jane, I'm not going to refute every off track analogy you brought up. The more we discuss, the more chances for jerks and detractors to chime in with irrelevant stuffs, name calling, etc. It's sad that we can't discuss objectively. I stand by my logic that when you said you have tried the not weighing approach and it didn't work so well, that means you don't know it, specially you don't know what the millions that do not weigh and succeed know. I think one poster (I assume in the counter camp) equates that (not weighing and succeeding) to having a magic wand.
What logic? There hasn't been a measurable amount of logic in a single one of your posts. I couldn't even eyeball the amount, there was so little of it.
You jump in out of nowhere .. .and think your post adds much value and logic to the debate?
For those who are genuinely interested, what I was debating with jane about was I liken her claim that she knows the not weighing approach but "it didn't work well" (her words) for her to something like..someone who said she knows how to drive but ends up with lots of crashes. So, to me that person doesn't really know how to drive. But jane probably begs to differ.
I imagine Jane knows how to drive--you're safe on the street. By the way, all your talk about "not knowing" how to lose without counting, has gotten me really curious. Care to put your money where your mouth is (or keyboard) and explain how you do it, and what success you've had--how much you've lost, are you at goal, etc.? All this talk has made me wonder....since you say there's no magic wand.
It's frighteningly simple. When I eat, I truly eat, enjoyably, satiately and when I "don't" eat, I eat light, mainly for nutrition. I call the latter phase "tuning out eating".
Obviously I put health first. I don't eat too much or too little to the point that makes me feel sick. Because I do both "phases" out of desires, it feels easy. In other words I don't eat while feeling I need to lose or while I am losing, I want to eat! No contradiction. The only small fluctuation is how long (1 week vs 2, 3 weeks) it might take to lose if I happen to have too many eating occasions.
At this point in time the desire to lose is more, thus I'm losing. If I happen to gain due to liking eating too much, so be it. But I know if I could drop all 26+ overweight lbs in 4 month time to be in normal bmi now, I could do that anytime, provided that my desire is there.
I don't adhere to 24 hr time frame. No need for daily moderation, saying no to friends, watching every little thing. No worry about constantly having to look for foods. I think there's another lady who said she hates having to find foods to eat.
If you could create such eating behaviors/patterns like I have, then you would lose. No magic wand.
I'm writing this out because I really don't want anyone reading your post and feeling like they're "doing it wrong." There are many, many reasons why people can't or don't want to create these behaviors.
First, your hunger signals seem to work well. If you've had a lot of calories the day before, your body doesn't fight you if you don't eat much the next day. Others do not have such reliable hunger signals, possibly from yo-yo dieting, from eating disorders, or becoming over/underweight because their hunger signals were never reliable to begin with. Others confuse the compulsion to eat with hunger, and when we're constantly surrounded by food, it can be difficult to turn off that compulsion. I do think intuitive eating and self-regulation is ideal. However, I don't think it's something that can be easily learned if you don't grow up doing it, and I think a lot of people would get frustrated trying to learn it and failing at it. That's why we have other methods.
Next, you're not attempting to lose weight on any sort of timeline. Most people do have timelines for some reason or another:
-Need to get weight off as fast as possible for health-related reasons
-Trying to get pregnant and can't until weight is lost
-Relative needs an organ donation, you're a match, can't donate until weight is lost
-Weigh-in for a military job
-Health insurance penalties
-Fitness competition
-Looking hot in a bikini during the summer
just to name a few. So the willy-nilly, "maybe I'll lose 1 lb in 3 weeks instead of 1 week" is not optimal for many people.
Daily moderation may help someone mentally much better. If someone uses up all their "treat" calories in one day and has to stick to a nutrient-dense diet the rest of the week, they may not enjoy it. Personal enjoyment of one's diet is going to be the #1 reason for adherence.
And this all ties in to possible reasons to use a scale - a scale helps someone with poor intuitive eating learn portion sizes. It helps someone on a stricter timeline meet their weight loss goals on time. It helps ensure the daily treat isn't blowing out the person's calories. Some people find using a scale helpful, so they do. Some find it necessary. Some find it useful for a time, but knowledge and good habits build and then they can let go of it.
There is nothing wrong or superior with your way of eating. There's nothing wrong or superior with not using a scale and finding other methods of exercising portion control. There's nothing wrong or superior with using a scale. These are all matters of personal preference that help individuals adhere to a healthy lifestyle. I have tried all of these and a couple of other tools, and I use the ones that work best for me.
If you care to follow my previous posts, I have addressed every single point you mentioned here. But here goes again:
I do not think anything right or wrong. However, I do consider effectiveness, and when I shared my approach it was mainly to reply to the OP or those who were looking for something better than weighing. The weighers, counters voluntarily jumped in to defend their approach.
At this point I'm not following any time line for a good reason. I only mentioned it to be comprehensive. I'm already at normal bmi and started getting comments from those knowing me that I look too thin. Plus, I'm watching my sports performance. Also, life quality comes first, before additional 4, 5 lbs loss to reach a goal that I arbitrary made up. I don't want to skip father day, graduation parties, etc. so 4, 5 lbs gain, that is if I can't offset them, is still meaningless in time frame of 2, 3 weeks.
Most of us have typically gained and lived for years with 20, 50 lbs. It's up to you to have whatever perspective on the time line for loss and progress.
I'm not writing a complete diet book to deal with every situation for everyone. I simply replied piece meal to certain questions. You seem to be trying too hard to discredit my points.
You and I will have to differ on what is better and what is not. Let's just leave it as that.
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queenliz99 wrote: »
And when it ends up on the floor because of poor balancing? But yeah I've done that before
Skills, man, skills!!0 -
Talking about food scales anyone know of a food scale big enough to use regular sized plates? Would be so much better if I didn't need to work around the size limit
I use this one: https://www.amazon.com/EatSmart-Precision-Digital-Kitchen-Silver/dp/B001N07KUE/ref=lp_289787_1_24?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1465508385&sr=1-24
Never had a problem with plates and can finagle a cutting board on top of it.1 -
bellabonbons wrote: »The moment I have to weigh food is a moment I stop dieting. But I do measure. Love MFP. 26 pounds and will have reached my goal. Whatever works we must find the diet that works for us and for me counting calories is amazing. Because I can enjoy all the foods I love while I lose weight.
Measuring is pretty much just as much effort if not more. For example if you buy oatmeal in bulk and want to make it for breakfast i could use a measuring cup and scoop it in a bowl. Or I could just place the bowl on the scale and dump it in until it hits 1 serving. This is A more accurate and B half as many dishes to wash. Same goes for a bunch of other stuff. Now if it's something like a hotdog and hotdog bun I won't bother but it's actually easier than a measuring cup and more accurate. My scale starts at 0 if I turn it on with a bowl on it already so if I want some chips or cereal it's just a matter of throwing some in and recording the number. Or if I buy stuff sold in small containers I can just put the container on the scale and take a few out an I'll get a negative number. That negative number is what I ate.3 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »jane, I'm not going to refute every off track analogy you brought up. The more we discuss, the more chances for jerks and detractors to chime in with irrelevant stuffs, name calling, etc. It's sad that we can't discuss objectively. I stand by my logic that when you said you have tried the not weighing approach and it didn't work so well, that means you don't know it, specially you don't know what the millions that do not weigh and succeed know. I think one poster (I assume in the counter camp) equates that (not weighing and succeeding) to having a magic wand.
What logic? There hasn't been a measurable amount of logic in a single one of your posts. I couldn't even eyeball the amount, there was so little of it.
You jump in out of nowhere .. .and think your post adds much value and logic to the debate?
For those who are genuinely interested, what I was debating with jane about was I liken her claim that she knows the not weighing approach but "it didn't work well" (her words) for her to something like..someone who said she knows how to drive but ends up with lots of crashes. So, to me that person doesn't really know how to drive. But jane probably begs to differ.
I imagine Jane knows how to drive--you're safe on the street. By the way, all your talk about "not knowing" how to lose without counting, has gotten me really curious. Care to put your money where your mouth is (or keyboard) and explain how you do it, and what success you've had--how much you've lost, are you at goal, etc.? All this talk has made me wonder....since you say there's no magic wand.
It's frighteningly simple. When I eat, I truly eat, enjoyably, satiately and when I "don't" eat, I eat light, mainly for nutrition. I call the latter phase "tuning out eating".
Obviously I put health first. I don't eat too much or too little to the point that makes me feel sick. Because I do both "phases" out of desires, it feels easy. In other words I don't eat while feeling I need to lose or while I am losing, I want to eat! No contradiction. The only small fluctuation is how long (1 week vs 2, 3 weeks) it might take to lose if I happen to have too many eating occasions.
At this point in time the desire to lose is more, thus I'm losing. If I happen to gain due to liking eating too much, so be it. But I know if I could drop all 26+ overweight lbs in 4 month time to be in normal bmi now, I could do that anytime, provided that my desire is there.
I don't adhere to 24 hr time frame. No need for daily moderation, saying no to friends, watching every little thing. No worry about constantly having to look for foods. I think there's another lady who said she hates having to find foods to eat.
If you could create such eating behaviors/patterns like I have, then you would lose. No magic wand.
I'm writing this out because I really don't want anyone reading your post and feeling like they're "doing it wrong." There are many, many reasons why people can't or don't want to create these behaviors.
First, your hunger signals seem to work well. If you've had a lot of calories the day before, your body doesn't fight you if you don't eat much the next day. Others do not have such reliable hunger signals, possibly from yo-yo dieting, from eating disorders, or becoming over/underweight because their hunger signals were never reliable to begin with. Others confuse the compulsion to eat with hunger, and when we're constantly surrounded by food, it can be difficult to turn off that compulsion. I do think intuitive eating and self-regulation is ideal. However, I don't think it's something that can be easily learned if you don't grow up doing it, and I think a lot of people would get frustrated trying to learn it and failing at it. That's why we have other methods.
Next, you're not attempting to lose weight on any sort of timeline. Most people do have timelines for some reason or another:
-Need to get weight off as fast as possible for health-related reasons
-Trying to get pregnant and can't until weight is lost
-Relative needs an organ donation, you're a match, can't donate until weight is lost
-Weigh-in for a military job
-Health insurance penalties
-Fitness competition
-Looking hot in a bikini during the summer
just to name a few. So the willy-nilly, "maybe I'll lose 1 lb in 3 weeks instead of 1 week" is not optimal for many people.
Daily moderation may help someone mentally much better. If someone uses up all their "treat" calories in one day and has to stick to a nutrient-dense diet the rest of the week, they may not enjoy it. Personal enjoyment of one's diet is going to be the #1 reason for adherence.
And this all ties in to possible reasons to use a scale - a scale helps someone with poor intuitive eating learn portion sizes. It helps someone on a stricter timeline meet their weight loss goals on time. It helps ensure the daily treat isn't blowing out the person's calories. Some people find using a scale helpful, so they do. Some find it necessary. Some find it useful for a time, but knowledge and good habits build and then they can let go of it.
There is nothing wrong or superior with your way of eating. There's nothing wrong or superior with not using a scale and finding other methods of exercising portion control. There's nothing wrong or superior with using a scale. These are all matters of personal preference that help individuals adhere to a healthy lifestyle. I have tried all of these and a couple of other tools, and I use the ones that work best for me.
If you care to follow my previous posts, I have addressed every single point you mentioned here. But here goes again:
I do not think anything right or wrong. However, I do consider effectiveness, and when I shared my approach it was mainly to reply to the OP or those who were looking for something better than weighing. The weighers, counters voluntarily jumped in to defend their approach.
At this point I'm not following any time line for a good reason. I only mentioned it to be comprehensive. I'm already at normal bmi and started getting comments from those knowing me that I look too thin. Plus, I'm watching my sports performance. Also, life quality comes first, before additional 4, 5 lbs loss to reach a goal that I arbitrary made up. I don't want to skip father day, graduation parties, etc. so 4, 5 lbs gain, that is if I can't offset them, is still meaningless in time frame of 2, 3 weeks.
Most of us have typically gained and lived for years with 20, 50 lbs. It's up to you to have whatever perspective on the time line for loss and progress.
I'm not writing a complete diet book to deal with every situation for everyone. I simply replied piece meal to certain questions. You seem to be trying too hard to discredit my points.
You and I will have to differ on what is better and what is not. Let's just leave it as that.
I am not discrediting your points in the context of what works for you personally. It's good for you and the people it works for. I'm explaining why what applies to you doesn't apply to everyone. I'm explaining why it's not better for everyone, why it's not the most effective for everyone. In particular, it's not effective for someone on a timeline or someone who doesn't have the same hunger signals, as I illustrated.
You keep using the word "better," therefore you do think there is a right and a wrong. If you'd say "different" or "better for me," I wouldn't have a problem with it, but you're being awfully condescending to people who don't do it your way by implying your way is better, in all contexts, than theirs.10 -
mskessler89 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »jane, I'm not going to refute every off track analogy you brought up. The more we discuss, the more chances for jerks and detractors to chime in with irrelevant stuffs, name calling, etc. It's sad that we can't discuss objectively. I stand by my logic that when you said you have tried the not weighing approach and it didn't work so well, that means you don't know it, specially you don't know what the millions that do not weigh and succeed know. I think one poster (I assume in the counter camp) equates that (not weighing and succeeding) to having a magic wand.
What logic? There hasn't been a measurable amount of logic in a single one of your posts. I couldn't even eyeball the amount, there was so little of it.
You jump in out of nowhere .. .and think your post adds much value and logic to the debate?
For those who are genuinely interested, what I was debating with jane about was I liken her claim that she knows the not weighing approach but "it didn't work well" (her words) for her to something like..someone who said she knows how to drive but ends up with lots of crashes. So, to me that person doesn't really know how to drive. But jane probably begs to differ.
I imagine Jane knows how to drive--you're safe on the street. By the way, all your talk about "not knowing" how to lose without counting, has gotten me really curious. Care to put your money where your mouth is (or keyboard) and explain how you do it, and what success you've had--how much you've lost, are you at goal, etc.? All this talk has made me wonder....since you say there's no magic wand.
It's frighteningly simple. When I eat, I truly eat, enjoyably, satiately and when I "don't" eat, I eat light, mainly for nutrition. I call the latter phase "tuning out eating".
Obviously I put health first. I don't eat too much or too little to the point that makes me feel sick. Because I do both "phases" out of desires, it feels easy. In other words I don't eat while feeling I need to lose or while I am losing, I want to eat! No contradiction. The only small fluctuation is how long (1 week vs 2, 3 weeks) it might take to lose if I happen to have too many eating occasions.
At this point in time the desire to lose is more, thus I'm losing. If I happen to gain due to liking eating too much, so be it. But I know if I could drop all 26+ overweight lbs in 4 month time to be in normal bmi now, I could do that anytime, provided that my desire is there.
I don't adhere to 24 hr time frame. No need for daily moderation, saying no to friends, watching every little thing. No worry about constantly having to look for foods. I think there's another lady who said she hates having to find foods to eat.
If you could create such eating behaviors/patterns like I have, then you would lose. No magic wand.
I'm writing this out because I really don't want anyone reading your post and feeling like they're "doing it wrong." There are many, many reasons why people can't or don't want to create these behaviors.
First, your hunger signals seem to work well. If you've had a lot of calories the day before, your body doesn't fight you if you don't eat much the next day. Others do not have such reliable hunger signals, possibly from yo-yo dieting, from eating disorders, or becoming over/underweight because their hunger signals were never reliable to begin with. Others confuse the compulsion to eat with hunger, and when we're constantly surrounded by food, it can be difficult to turn off that compulsion. I do think intuitive eating and self-regulation is ideal. However, I don't think it's something that can be easily learned if you don't grow up doing it, and I think a lot of people would get frustrated trying to learn it and failing at it. That's why we have other methods.
Next, you're not attempting to lose weight on any sort of timeline. Most people do have timelines for some reason or another:
-Need to get weight off as fast as possible for health-related reasons
-Trying to get pregnant and can't until weight is lost
-Relative needs an organ donation, you're a match, can't donate until weight is lost
-Weigh-in for a military job
-Health insurance penalties
-Fitness competition
-Looking hot in a bikini during the summer
just to name a few. So the willy-nilly, "maybe I'll lose 1 lb in 3 weeks instead of 1 week" is not optimal for many people.
Daily moderation may help someone mentally much better. If someone uses up all their "treat" calories in one day and has to stick to a nutrient-dense diet the rest of the week, they may not enjoy it. Personal enjoyment of one's diet is going to be the #1 reason for adherence.
And this all ties in to possible reasons to use a scale - a scale helps someone with poor intuitive eating learn portion sizes. It helps someone on a stricter timeline meet their weight loss goals on time. It helps ensure the daily treat isn't blowing out the person's calories. Some people find using a scale helpful, so they do. Some find it necessary. Some find it useful for a time, but knowledge and good habits build and then they can let go of it.
There is nothing wrong or superior with your way of eating. There's nothing wrong or superior with not using a scale and finding other methods of exercising portion control. There's nothing wrong or superior with using a scale. These are all matters of personal preference that help individuals adhere to a healthy lifestyle. I have tried all of these and a couple of other tools, and I use the ones that work best for me.
If you care to follow my previous posts, I have addressed every single point you mentioned here. But here goes again:
I do not think anything right or wrong. However, I do consider effectiveness, and when I shared my approach it was mainly to reply to the OP or those who were looking for something better than weighing. The weighers, counters voluntarily jumped in to defend their approach.
At this point I'm not following any time line for a good reason. I only mentioned it to be comprehensive. I'm already at normal bmi and started getting comments from those knowing me that I look too thin. Plus, I'm watching my sports performance. Also, life quality comes first, before additional 4, 5 lbs loss to reach a goal that I arbitrary made up. I don't want to skip father day, graduation parties, etc. so 4, 5 lbs gain, that is if I can't offset them, is still meaningless in time frame of 2, 3 weeks.
Most of us have typically gained and lived for years with 20, 50 lbs. It's up to you to have whatever perspective on the time line for loss and progress.
I'm not writing a complete diet book to deal with every situation for everyone. I simply replied piece meal to certain questions. You seem to be trying too hard to discredit my points.
You and I will have to differ on what is better and what is not. Let's just leave it as that.
I am not discrediting your points in the context of what works for you personally. It's good for you and the people it works for. I'm explaining why what applies to you doesn't apply to everyone. I'm explaining why it's not better for everyone, why it's not the most effective for everyone. In particular, it's not effective for someone on a timeline or someone who doesn't have the same hunger signals, as I illustrated.
You keep using the word "better," therefore you do think there is a right and a wrong. If you'd say "different" or "better for me," I wouldn't have a problem with it, but you're being awfully condescending to people who don't do it your way by implying your way is better, in all contexts, than theirs.
You know when you have to use "everyone" in your argument, you're scrapping the barrel.
This begins to look like a straw man argument now.
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[quote="BZAH10;36724548
Asking questions and learning from other is great. However, I think you'll understand it more if/when you get to a point where you stop losing weight but haven't reached your goal weight yet. I think then the accuracy of weighing food will make more sense to you.
But, just wait and see. Maybe you will lose all of your weight doing exactly as you are now. There's no one-size-fits-all.[/quote]
You very well may be right. However, I don't have a "goal weight" At this point in time..I have an idea of where I want to be (Between 195-205) Maybe when I get there..I'll maintain..maybe..I'll think on getting down to 185-195?
I have no doubt it will be tougher at that point. Thanks for your thoughts..as I said..I am trying to reply to everyone and am obviously, way behind!0 -
Did you expect a bunch of high -5's?
It was a vaguely inflammatory post which put down a large percentage of readers main method of achieving their health goal and keeping control of their weight loss.
It's like when my training buddy told me she lost 2 inches from her hips with just training and no change to her diet. Delighted for her but still wanted to punch her in the face. Gently though.
No..I didn't expect any High 5's really..although I've had several people message me off this thread and say..they agree with me. I am a veteran of online forums, and have a pretty good idea of how people react. Most people read, then can't wait to hit reply w/o really thinking about what was said. They immediately assume they know the tone of the post and label it "inflammatory" as you have done.
One can only view it as inflammatory..if they wish to. And in my short time here, I've seen numerous threads with numerous posts from people..which are smug, arrogant, I'm right and you're not and etc etc etc. I assume we're all adults and since none of us (or most of us) don't know each other personally and since eye contact and body language are missing in this type of communication forum..maybe I was hoping people..would think and actually post about their experiences..instead of immediately looking to criticize a thought or opinion, they may not share?
Have a Great Evening!
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CurlyCockney wrote: »I use scales not just because I don't want to eat over my calorie allowance, but also because I don't want to eat too much under it. I'm not good at guessing amounts, and see no reason to try if I don't have to (and as long as I have scales, I don't have to).
Thank you and makes perfect sense to me. I do use the scale I bought when I started..I simply found, I don't use it very often at all.Maybe that will change over time..but I hope not. I hope to teach myself to use this time losing weight and getting healthy to change my lifestyle.
I want to always have activity and exercise in my life moving forward. I want to eliminate bad food choices. I don't want a food scale, or an app, or an internet site for life.
But that's just me..
YMMV0
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