My mistake with "Heavy Lifting"...
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I understand what you mean
Some lifts I have no problem focusing on the muscle groups but other times, like in bench press, I struggle with it. I have a problem thinking about squeezing my shoulders together during bench press. Anyways I agree with kidrobot that the amount of DOMS you have is not relative to how successful your lifting session was.
Glad you're feeling happier with your lifting and congrats on committing through 3 years of consistent exercise even though you weren't thrilled with the results!0 -
If you are using good form then you are focusing on the correct muscles for any given exercise so I am not really understanding what you mean.
I'm a bit confused about this as well. I appreciate your post, and I think it's something I need to be mindful of too, but doesn't "good form" indicate that you're using the proper muscles for the lifts? How could you be doing something with good form but not using the right muscles? I'm a little confused about that.
I have an idea of what you mean though... there are a few lifts I do that I don't feel in the right places... for example, chest exercises I NEVER feel in my chest, but normally in my biceps/triceps. I've triple checked my form and I'm pretty sure I'm doing everything right, but it doesn't FEEL right. I have no idea where to go from here. Wish I could afford a personal trainer even for a couple of sessions. Maybe it would help me like it helped you!
Anyway, congrats on your success and thanks for sharing!0 -
Seems like you're thinking from a bodybuilding perspective and not a strength one.
Time under tension is important in bodybuilding to develop and exhaust the muscle, that isn't important in strength programs.
You can look at the before and after pics in the Stronglifts program and tell it's not a bodybuilding program, most of those guys look exactly the same.0 -
You might also try sets of 15 using 2/3rds of your 5RM. So if you're doing 5 reps with 100 lbs, instead do 15 reps with 65 lbs. (Or if you can do 14 or 16, but it should get you in the ballpark)Maybe this is why! I don't feel sore at all the next day, despite feeling so exausted during and directly after the workout! I feel like I push myself so hard, I practice good form, and thought I was doing everything right... but things like the squats I don't even feel my legs burn even a little
I'm going to focus on each muscle group now and see if it makes a difference 
I'm so glad I read this before I spent more time lifting... I've only been doing it a few weeks now so this might help a lot
Or, 20 reps with 60% of your 5RM.
Those will get you the burn you're looking for, and you should feel it the next day. :happy: But not everyone gets DOMS... I feel it later but it's not unpleasant, and I'm still making gains.
Also there's no reason you have to do only one rep count every workout, you can switch rep ranges and do 15's one day and 5's the next time, etc. (But remember to keep trying to progress your equivalent weight every time.)0 -
Glad you shared what you learned for yourself, it likely will help many of us learn to focus more on everything it takes to lift well.
I think if it took hiring a trainer to help you learn something like this when you weren't satisfied with your progress..it was well worth it. Though I'm not so sure that all trainers are "uneducated'.
Good job!
love this post!!I've been lifting for years and know exactly what you're talking about. I actually don't tend to get sore anymore, but I am also pretty damn happy with my body changes and gains. I seem to hit new PRs about every two weeks having moved back noobie gains. Oh...if noobie gains lasted forever...
Anyways, yup. The mind is a big part of the focus of lifting. That is why I actually really enjoy lifting. When you're truly IN THE MOMENT, you can't be anywhere else. Yoga bores me. Lifting excites me. Go figure ya?0 -
In order to focus on the muscle groups for a squat, you need to focus on your chest, abs, upper back, lower back, glutes, hamstrings, quads, hips, and calves. In other words, your entire body. That's called "lifting with proper form." The squat is a full body lift, not an isolation lift. What the OP is talking about really only applies to isolation exercises, like the biceps curl, or leg extension, not to a full body lift like the squat or bench press, or deadlift.Maybe this is why! I don't feel sore at all the next day, despite feeling so exausted during and directly after the workout! I feel like I push myself so hard, I practice good form, and thought I was doing everything right... but things like the squats I don't even feel my legs burn even a little I'm going to focus on each muscle group now and see if it makes a difference I'm so glad I read this before I spent more time lifting... I've only been doing it a few weeks now so this might help a lot 0 -
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This is true. Its all about connecting your mind with the muscle you want to work. Check out the guys in prison. They removed all the weightlifting equipment but they are still yoked!
This is so true, even though they still have a lot of good equipment! If you went to prison and came out fat I'll assume you were a prison *****.0 -
In order to focus on the muscle groups for a squat, you need to focus on your chest, abs, upper back, lower back, glutes, hamstrings, quads, hips, and calves. In other words, your entire body. That's called "lifting with proper form." The squat is a full body lift, not an isolation lift. What the OP is talking about really only applies to isolation exercises, like the biceps curl, or leg extension, not to a full body lift like the squat or bench press, or deadlift.Maybe this is why! I don't feel sore at all the next day, despite feeling so exausted during and directly after the workout! I feel like I push myself so hard, I practice good form, and thought I was doing everything right... but things like the squats I don't even feel my legs burn even a little I'm going to focus on each muscle group now and see if it makes a difference I'm so glad I read this before I spent more time lifting... I've only been doing it a few weeks now so this might help a lot
Sorry I haven't had a chance to respond. Actually Squats are one of the worst contenders I was referring to.
Essentially if you watched the form on my squat before vs. now you probably wouldn't see a difference. But I can tell you that I was ABSOLUTELY relying on my quads primarily. Not on purpose, but I was so focused on keeping chest up, position correct, etc. I was really relying on *whatever* muscle to perform the exercise. Now I'm actively squeezing glutes, vastus medialus, etc.
In other words I was performing the exercise with the proper *form* but using whichever dominant muscle to get me through the rep.
I was so focused on just moving the weight that I wasn't actively contracting ALL muscles. Were my glutes engaged before? Sure, but I wasn't actively *purposely* MAKING it work.
I understand fully that I suppose proper form would include actively contracting all necessary muscles. What I meant is if someone were to watch my form, it was correct. But I was just pushing through the reps and moving through the motions NOT actively focusing on getting the most out of each targeted muscle.
As far as being *sore* or having DOMS as an indicator of results... I am aware. I have seen results in both measurements, body fat, and overall looks in the mirror. I was simply pointing out the fact that I was doing the same exercises which never made me sore all of a sudden I began having almost crippling DOMS. :P0 -
In order to focus on the muscle groups for a squat, you need to focus on your chest, abs, upper back, lower back, glutes, hamstrings, quads, hips, and calves. In other words, your entire body. That's called "lifting with proper form." The squat is a full body lift, not an isolation lift. What the OP is talking about really only applies to isolation exercises, like the biceps curl, or leg extension, not to a full body lift like the squat or bench press, or deadlift.Maybe this is why! I don't feel sore at all the next day, despite feeling so exausted during and directly after the workout! I feel like I push myself so hard, I practice good form, and thought I was doing everything right... but things like the squats I don't even feel my legs burn even a little I'm going to focus on each muscle group now and see if it makes a difference I'm so glad I read this before I spent more time lifting... I've only been doing it a few weeks now so this might help a lot
oh... ok I only do squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, and rows...0 -
I'm starting heavy lifting this week and am grateful for this thread!0
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In order to focus on the muscle groups for a squat, you need to focus on your chest, abs, upper back, lower back, glutes, hamstrings, quads, hips, and calves. In other words, your entire body. That's called "lifting with proper form." The squat is a full body lift, not an isolation lift. What the OP is talking about really only applies to isolation exercises, like the biceps curl, or leg extension, not to a full body lift like the squat or bench press, or deadlift.Maybe this is why! I don't feel sore at all the next day, despite feeling so exausted during and directly after the workout! I feel like I push myself so hard, I practice good form, and thought I was doing everything right... but things like the squats I don't even feel my legs burn even a little I'm going to focus on each muscle group now and see if it makes a difference I'm so glad I read this before I spent more time lifting... I've only been doing it a few weeks now so this might help a lot
I agree with this as well as all of the discussion regarding how DOMS is not an indicator of how effective your workout is.
IMO, you should always be aware of what your muscles are doing when you are lifting, but the focus changes based on experience. When you are a beginner, your focus should be on form and learning to do the compound lifts properly to avoid injury. When you reach an intermediate/advanced (dependent on the individual) is where I can see this mind/muscle connection coming into play....this is often times where you will find programs that include more of the "accessory" work conducive to bodybuilding. Probably not a coincidence.
Either way OP, I'm glad that you are finally seeing the results that you have wanted.....I don't think 3 years was a waste and glad you found a trainer that you like 0 -
So by that logic, couldn't you just concentrate on your muscles and get them to grow?
Actually, a limited study proved just this:
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/sportspsychology/a/thinkstrong.htm0 -
TBH I would think it's very common to mentally rehearse one's lifts. I do that all the time and also do that with diving, video games, and pretty much any similar skill.:happy:So by that logic, couldn't you just concentrate on your muscles and get them to grow?
Actually, a limited study proved just this:
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/sportspsychology/a/thinkstrong.htm
Also, not to split hairs (but here's the part where I split hairs) it didn't prove that muscles could grow, it proved that neural adaptation could occur, which isn't really surprising. It's also known that strength training only one limb will result in strength improvements on the opposing limb.
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Yeah, you're concentrating on the muscle(s) being worked rather than the weight on the bar.
I get it.0 -
Appreciated this. You hear the stronglifts guy go on about 'heavier means more muscle' with no reference crap all the time and well, I guess that's not necessarily true in that situation. I was just curious if you could end up with the same results with a slightly lighter weight given a different circumstance. Not talking about comparing say p90x to olympic lifting or anything. Heffing around large weights != larger muscles...if only half the people who jerk the weights around with their half reps would realize this.
Just to clear up since there's argument:
I kind of get it...not so much for compound lifts but watching guys do curls at the gym and throwing something compared to not. Even if that's an exaggerated case. If you wanted to you can stay in the correct movement flexing and use momentum to get you past longer distances (IE you concentrate on a particular section allot but the rest 'cheats'). Like throwing a ball, initial acceleration is greatest. I think the OP is trying to say they're concentrating on not necessarily slowing the movement but making the distance and time graph different. IE the fastest acceleration gets slower and the slow parts of the acceleration get faster. Distance over time may remain the same. You're not concentrating on the strong muscles, you're concentrating on the weaker ones, which make sense since she mentioned concentrating on flexing (which you'd notice more at those points) and didn't say anything about slowing things down.0 -
thank you for sharing! never thought of this
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If you are using good form then you are focusing on the correct muscles for any given exercise so I am not really understanding what you mean.
There is a difference between moving weight and working muscles. Doing both well is the sign of an advanced lifter.0 -
Interesting. Thanks for sharing this! I will keep it in mind while I do my strength training.0
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Bump. I like this.0
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In the absence of knowing if your rep range has changed then:
1) thinking about the muscles being worked slowed down the movement
2) slowing down the movement increased time under tension
3) increasing time under tension moved you more from myofibrillar hypertrophy to sacroplasmic hypertrophy
4) moving to sacroplasmic hypertrophy triggered more noticeable physique changes (power / strength athlete .v. body builder)
You could of course just work with good form and sufficient load in the appropriate rep range for your desired goals without any of this mind - body business...0 -
In the absence of knowing if your rep range has changed then:
1) thinking about the muscles being worked slowed down the movement
2) slowing down the movement increased time under tension
3) increasing time under tension moved you more from myofibrillar hypertrophy to sacroplasmic hypertrophy
4) moving to sacroplasmic hypertrophy triggered more noticeable physique changes (power / strength athlete .v. body builder)
You could of course just work with good form and sufficient load in the appropriate rep range for your desired goals without any of this mind - body business...
THIS is the first thing here I understand and that makes sense to me.0 -
The OP is pretty wrong. You should not be trying to induce DOMS with your workout. There is absolutely no benefit to inducing DOMS. The only reason you should get DOMS is if you're new to lifting (this will go away in a week or two) or you significantly change your routine (DOMS will probably only happen once or twice). If you constantly get DOMS after months of lifting then your routine is garbage.
The tension on the muscle is what causes it to grow. That is why people who have crappy form still get results. Someone curling 25lb with strict form and someone curling 35lb with sloppy form can get exactly the same results if the time under tension is the same.
The real problem with sloppy form is that it leads to injuries. I'd advise people to ignore the OP's advice.0 -
If you are using good form then you are focusing on the correct muscles for any given exercise so I am not really understanding what you mean.
I'm a bit confused about this as well. I appreciate your post, and I think it's something I need to be mindful of too, but doesn't "good form" indicate that you're using the proper muscles for the lifts? How could you be doing something with good form but not using the right muscles? I'm a little confused about that.
I have an idea of what you mean though... there are a few lifts I do that I don't feel in the right places... for example, chest exercises I NEVER feel in my chest, but normally in my biceps/triceps. I've triple checked my form and I'm pretty sure I'm doing everything right, but it doesn't FEEL right. I have no idea where to go from here. Wish I could afford a personal trainer even for a couple of sessions. Maybe it would help me like it helped you!
Anyway, congrats on your success and thanks for sharing!
If you feel a chest exercise in your biceps then you're not doing it right tbh. I was initially surprised that the op was misunderstood by so many but I suppose most people have other interests outside of training (which is probably better for them anyways) and don't think about this sort of thing often.
Good form is generally a synonym for lifting safely (ie not ripping up your rotator cuff on the bench) and moving the most weight possible (in powerlifting). The best form on bench involving a tight core, leg drive, arm angle etc is not necessarily the best form to emphasize the chest for everyone. The real confusion arises because it is the right way to do it for some people.
A lot of people seem to think this is solely down to changing the pace of a lift but this doesn't have to be the case, changing from bb to db bench can be enough to create a response from the pectorals that would never have happened on the bb bench as an example.0 -
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It's called the mind-muscle connection. Learn it. Live it. Love it.0
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The OP is pretty wrong. You should not be trying to induce DOMS with your workout. There is absolutely no benefit to inducing DOMS. The only reason you should get DOMS is if you're new to lifting (this will go away in a week or two) or you significantly change your routine (DOMS will probably only happen once or twice). If you constantly get DOMS after months of lifting then your routine is garbage.
The tension on the muscle is what causes it to grow. That is why people who have crappy form still get results. Someone curling 25lb with strict form and someone curling 35lb with sloppy form can get exactly the same results if the time under tension is the same.
The real problem with sloppy form is that it leads to injuries. I'd advise people to ignore the OP's advice.
I would advise people to ignore what you just said.
She isn't saying the goal of the workout is to obtain DOMS. She's just saying now that she is concentrating on the proper muscle group that she is using to lift that she is now achieving that.0 -
Thanks for the post - such a good reminder!!!! Gotta really put that effort and vision into it 0
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It's called the mind-muscle connection. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
I don't concentrate on specific muscle and I have good progress and appropriate soreness the next day. I guess it's it is another method that helps some but is not needed by all.0 -
nope. I have to say that i have not thought of this, but I will definitely make that change from here on out!! Thanks for the heads up! and congrats on your progress!0
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