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Why do people overeat and/or become obese? Is it harder than average for some to lose weight?
Replies
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I'm not against people saying they are addicted to certain foods. But I don't think that addiction (or compulsion or whatever your favorite word is) is the answer to the question, I think it's part of the question.
I'm interested in WHY some people have such a strong reaction and others don't. After reading all of this, my guess is some are either more sensitive to hunger signals like ghrelin and/or have something different about their neurotransmitters that causes them more distress than average when exercising self control in the presence of a food temptation; or, alternatively, causes them more pleasure than average when partaking of particularly tempting foods.
So that still leaves the question, if the above is true, HOW does that happen? Why to some people and not others? Are some born that way, or is it catalysed by experiences in their formative years? Or something else entirely?1 -
simple/complex is a useful category when you have blood sugar issues, which I do. Without such issues, it's probably irrelevant.0
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So what are the other reasons?0
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Reasons.... upbringing issues, emotional issues, hormones out of whack, sometimes actual lack of knowledge, mobility problems due to ailments, and appetite increasing/metabolism lowering medications. That's the list of what I know of.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »MakePeasNotWar wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
I guess I'm mostly not thinking this digression on "addiction," is really relevant to the thread topic. I think the reason people overeat isn't mainly "addiction," but environment and availability plus normal human reactions to food.
I actually think this topic is quite relevant to the OP, because if people do react to foods differently from a psychological perspective, it could explain why some people have more trouble losing weight - it isn't that it's physically impossible for them, it's that the conventional techniques of portion control and moderation will not work to bring their cravings under control.
I'm trying to look at this on a macro level. The differences between societies with lots of overweight and those without are environment and activity. It's unlikely to be that we have more "addicted" people.
I agree with you there, 100%. I absolutely think that easy availability and heavy promotion of high calorie and appealing food, coupled with inactivity are the primary drivers of obesity.
Everything I am talking about is definitely micro level, but I think it's one answer to the question of why some people find it harder to lose weight than others.1 -
I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
That's fine.
Are you saying I lack education or the people I am talking about lack education. What education is lacking?
@moe0303
I think he is saying he lacks education himself. The inability to see beyond his experiences.2 -
I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
That's fine.
Are you saying I lack education or the people I am talking about lack education. What education is lacking?
@moe0303
I think he is saying he lacks education himself. The inability to see beyond his experiences.
???0 -
I'm not against people saying they are addicted to certain foods. But I don't think that addiction (or compulsion or whatever your favorite word is) is the answer to the question, I think it's part of the question.
I'm interested in WHY some people have such a strong reaction and others don't. After reading all of this, my guess is some are either more sensitive to hunger signals like ghrelin and/or have something different about their neurotransmitters that causes them more distress than average when exercising self control in the presence of a food temptation; or, alternatively, causes them more pleasure than average when partaking of particularly tempting foods.
So that still leaves the question, if the above is true, HOW does that happen? Why to some people and not others? Are some born that way, or is it catalysed by experiences in their formative years? Or something else entirely?
Purely conjecture, but my guess is that the compulsive nature of cravings would be related to neurotransmitter regulation, and prefrontal cortex underdevelopment with executive function impairment could explain why some people find it near impossible to resist cravings that others might not have a problem with.
I think the neurotransmitter link is supported by the fact that antidepressants have been useful in some cases of compulsive eating, and the fact that it seems like many people who believe they are "addicted" to certain foods experience less than average hedonic response to other foods and non-food experiences.
The reason for executive function impact is somewhat self explanatory, as it is the domain of things like delayed gratification, impulse control, and self-regulation. People with ADHD, a disfunction of executive function, also have trouble appreciating or predicting the consequences of their actions, so the link between eating a food and gaining weight, while it would be understood on an intellectual level, isn't usually factored into the decision about whether to eat it or not (unless the choice is made very deliberately)
Edited to clarify language3 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »I'm not against people saying they are addicted to certain foods. But I don't think that addiction (or compulsion or whatever your favorite word is) is the answer to the question, I think it's part of the question.
I'm interested in WHY some people have such a strong reaction and others don't. After reading all of this, my guess is some are either more sensitive to hunger signals like ghrelin and/or have something different about their neurotransmitters that causes them more distress than average when exercising self control in the presence of a food temptation; or, alternatively, causes them more pleasure than average when partaking of particularly tempting foods.
So that still leaves the question, if the above is true, HOW does that happen? Why to some people and not others? Are some born that way, or is it catalysed by experiences in their formative years? Or something else entirely?
Purely conjecture, but my guess is that the compulsive nature of cravings would be related to neurotransmitter regulation, and prefrontal cortex underdevelopment with executive function impairment could explain why some people find it near impossible to resist cravings that others might not have a problem with.
I think the neurotransmitter link is supported by the fact that antidepressants have been useful in some cases of compulsive eating, and the fact that it seems like many people who believe they are "addicted" to certain foods experience less than average hedonic response to other foods and non-food experiences.
The reason for executive function impact is somewhat self explanatory, as it is the domain of things like delayed gratification, impulse control, and self-regulation. People with ADHD, a disfunction of executive function, also have trouble appreciating or predicting the consequences of their actions, so the link between eating a food and gaining weight, while it would be understood on an intellectual level, isn't usually factored into the decision about whether to eat it or not (unless the choice is made very deliberately)
Edited to clarify language
No. I'm thinking that this isn't the case for most people.0 -
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Again, what doesn't pertain to me? I overeat easily. That it's not primarily sugar that I overeat doesn't mean I have a less difficult issue to deal with, as you seem to be saying, Deb. And you've acknowledged that for you it's sugar+fat.0
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Sometimes I feel really empty2
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MakePeasNotWar wrote: »
The reason for executive function impact is somewhat self explanatory, as it is the domain of things like delayed gratification, impulse control, and self-regulation. People with ADHD, a disfunction of executive function, also have trouble appreciating or predicting the consequences of their actions, so the link between eating a food and gaining weight, while it would be understood on an intellectual level, isn't usually factored into the decision about whether to eat it or not (unless the choice is made very deliberately)
Edited to clarify language
It's too late for me to go back and edit, but I do want to clarify that I am not saying everyone who has a hard time resisting cravings has ADHD, or anything of the sort. I only used that as an example of an extreme case of executive function impairment, because I feel like it's a disorder most people are somewhat familiar with and sometimes using an extreme is an easy way to make a point. The OP asked if there could be underlying biological issues, and I think this (differences in executive functioning) could be one.2 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »I'm not against people saying they are addicted to certain foods. But I don't think that addiction (or compulsion or whatever your favorite word is) is the answer to the question, I think it's part of the question.
I'm interested in WHY some people have such a strong reaction and others don't. After reading all of this, my guess is some are either more sensitive to hunger signals like ghrelin and/or have something different about their neurotransmitters that causes them more distress than average when exercising self control in the presence of a food temptation; or, alternatively, causes them more pleasure than average when partaking of particularly tempting foods.
So that still leaves the question, if the above is true, HOW does that happen? Why to some people and not others? Are some born that way, or is it catalysed by experiences in their formative years? Or something else entirely?
Purely conjecture, but my guess is that the compulsive nature of cravings would be related to neurotransmitter regulation, and prefrontal cortex underdevelopment with executive function impairment could explain why some people find it near impossible to resist cravings that others might not have a problem with.
I think the neurotransmitter link is supported by the fact that antidepressants have been useful in some cases of compulsive eating, and the fact that it seems like many people who believe they are "addicted" to certain foods experience less than average hedonic response to other foods and non-food experiences.
The reason for executive function impact is somewhat self explanatory, as it is the domain of things like delayed gratification, impulse control, and self-regulation. People with ADHD, a disfunction of executive function, also have trouble appreciating or predicting the consequences of their actions, so the link between eating a food and gaining weight, while it would be understood on an intellectual level, isn't usually factored into the decision about whether to eat it or not (unless the choice is made very deliberately)
Edited to clarify language
No. I'm thinking that this isn't the case for most people.
Perhaps not most, but I do think both of these issues would create the behaviour. What do you think are more common reasons that some people feel satisfied after eating what they are cravings and others don't? Do you have any thoughts about why some people seem to resist temptation better than others? Do you think it's biological or emotional, or something else?
(I hope I don't sound badgering with all the questions. I'm just really interested to hear other people's opinions)3 -
I'm not against people saying they are addicted to certain foods. But I don't think that addiction (or compulsion or whatever your favorite word is) is the answer to the question, I think it's part of the question.
I'm interested in WHY some people have such a strong reaction and others don't. After reading all of this, my guess is some are either more sensitive to hunger signals like ghrelin and/or have something different about their neurotransmitters that causes them more distress than average when exercising self control in the presence of a food temptation; or, alternatively, causes them more pleasure than average when partaking of particularly tempting foods.
So that still leaves the question, if the above is true, HOW does that happen? Why to some people and not others? Are some born that way, or is it catalysed by experiences in their formative years? Or something else entirely?
Personal DIsclosure Alert: I am from a family of normal weight, normal appetite, normal eaters. When I was under 2 (along with several other toddlers in my town) I had the misfortune of eating some bad potato salad at a picnic. Several of us ended up quite ill. I was hospitalized 200 miles from home, NPO, no visitors, on IV fluids, poor prognosis. Fast forward 2 weeks and several lbs lighter, but cured. Suddenly I was a "good girl" who cleaned up my plate regardless of what was put in front of me, and didn't sass back until a full 3 years later, always did exactly what I was told to do, worried my poor parents to death until I finally started disobeying them again. The food thing has always been distorted for me, because I have zero recall of those events. So who knows what happened - something changed, because prior to the illnesss, according to my mom, I was a picky little eater. There may have been a change in my brain or it may have been emotional or it may have been that the illness switched on or off a gene...it doesn't really matter to me, because that was me then, and this is me now, and the "me now" is who I have to make this work for. It would be interesting to know the WHY, I admit, and maybe some researcher should find people like me to study, but it really makes no difference in my daily struggle.5 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »I'm not against people saying they are addicted to certain foods. But I don't think that addiction (or compulsion or whatever your favorite word is) is the answer to the question, I think it's part of the question.
I'm interested in WHY some people have such a strong reaction and others don't. After reading all of this, my guess is some are either more sensitive to hunger signals like ghrelin and/or have something different about their neurotransmitters that causes them more distress than average when exercising self control in the presence of a food temptation; or, alternatively, causes them more pleasure than average when partaking of particularly tempting foods.
So that still leaves the question, if the above is true, HOW does that happen? Why to some people and not others? Are some born that way, or is it catalysed by experiences in their formative years? Or something else entirely?
Personal DIsclosure Alert: I am from a family of normal weight, normal appetite, normal eaters. When I was under 2 (along with several other toddlers in my town) I had the misfortune of eating some bad potato salad at a picnic. Several of us ended up quite ill. I was hospitalized 200 miles from home, NPO, no visitors, on IV fluids, poor prognosis. Fast forward 2 weeks and several lbs lighter, but cured. Suddenly I was a "good girl" who cleaned up my plate regardless of what was put in front of me, and didn't sass back until a full 3 years later, always did exactly what I was told to do, worried my poor parents to death until I finally started disobeying them again. The food thing has always been distorted for me, because I have zero recall of those events. So who knows what happened - something changed, because prior to the illnesss, according to my mom, I was a picky little eater. There may have been a change in my brain or it may have been emotional or it may have been that the illness switched on or off a gene...it doesn't really matter to me, because that was me then, and this is me now, and the "me now" is who I have to make this work for. It would be interesting to know the WHY, I admit, and maybe some researcher should find people like me to study, but it really makes no difference in my daily struggle.
Thank you for sharing this!
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@JaneSnowe: You are welcome!1
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I'm not against people saying they are addicted to certain foods. But I don't think that addiction (or compulsion or whatever your favorite word is) is the answer to the question, I think it's part of the question.
I'm interested in WHY some people have such a strong reaction and others don't. After reading all of this, my guess is some are either more sensitive to hunger signals like ghrelin and/or have something different about their neurotransmitters that causes them more distress than average when exercising self control in the presence of a food temptation; or, alternatively, causes them more pleasure than average when partaking of particularly tempting foods.
So that still leaves the question, if the above is true, HOW does that happen? Why to some people and not others? Are some born that way, or is it catalysed by experiences in their formative years? Or something else entirely?
To be clear I only suggested it as an answer in some cases. I think the answer as to why some and not others falls to genetics.1 -
I'm not against people saying they are addicted to certain foods. But I don't think that addiction (or compulsion or whatever your favorite word is) is the answer to the question, I think it's part of the question.
I'm interested in WHY some people have such a strong reaction and others don't. After reading all of this, my guess is some are either more sensitive to hunger signals like ghrelin and/or have something different about their neurotransmitters that causes them more distress than average when exercising self control in the presence of a food temptation; or, alternatively, causes them more pleasure than average when partaking of particularly tempting foods.
So that still leaves the question, if the above is true, HOW does that happen? Why to some people and not others? Are some born that way, or is it catalysed by experiences in their formative years? Or something else entirely?
To be clear I only suggested it as an answer in some cases. I think the answer as to why some and not others falls to genetics.
Oh I don't mind the discussion on addiction (as long as it doesn't get bogged down by semantics)! You've made some thought provoking points.
I think part of it may be genetic too, and for some people (maybe ones who had traumatic events in childhood) it's become a deeply ingrained coping mechanism. For others, well, I'm sure it's highly personal for each one.
I think it's fantastic that the conversation hasn't boiled down to lack of will power, self control issues, laziness, etc. (In before someone says that those are the reasons why some people are fat!!1!)4 -
I do think a large part of the why is advertising and television, of course, when to eat and what to eat is up to the individual. There is personal responsibility. However there is less profit to be made ( food industry/corporations) if everyone maintains an acceptable weight.
Food is a resource that many of us over consume, and this is driven by advertisements. Yes, we are in charge of what we eat but we can't underestimate the power of being bombarded with commercials.3 -
What I'm see form the discussion is that there is a consensus that factors are different for different people and that they are a mix and degrees of these factors that influence overeating:
-Biological (from hormonal regulation, to craving, to diseases, to desire for sweetness, depression...)
-Behavioural (habits of sleep, eating patterns at home, work patterns, lack of activity patterns...)
-Environmental (social pressures, family and upraising, education, lifestyle, calorie availability ...)
I'm going to add to that self-perception - it's part biology, part environment but how we see ourselves as ok, not-ok in terms of weight, success and acceptance impacts how far we can let ourselves go. We are not purely objective when we look at ourselves and that self-perception also influences the other factors.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Again, what doesn't pertain to me? I overeat easily. That it's not primarily sugar that I overeat doesn't mean I have a less difficult issue to deal with, as you seem to be saying, Deb. And you've acknowledged that for you it's sugar+fat.
Yes. It sure is difficult and frustrating to lose weight and keep it off. I'm learning a lot about variables amongst the population from this thread. This is helpful. I have discovered that I can manipulate my macros, eliminate trigger foods like salty fatty foods and sweet fatty foods to diminish hunger and cravings, but that doesn't work for all. If someone suspects that it might, then they can try it. I'm certainly acknowledging "one size does not fit all" and YMMV.2 -
Edited for typo:I do think a large part of the why is advertising and television, of course, when to eat and what to eat is up to the individual. There is personal responsibility. However there is less profit to be made ( food industry/corporations) if everyone maintains an acceptable weight.
Food is a resource that many of us over consume, and
**this is driven by advertisements. Yes, we are in charge of what we eat but we can't underestimate the power of being bombarded with commercials.
**I also saw that brought up in a weight study I was reading after researching a bit. People eat more while watching television because of the beautiful advertising from fast foods and grocery ads. The study said the visuals increase hunger signals from the release of leptin.
My husband bought potato chips two days ago because "it was on sale" and he "had coupons". I think that the store ad encouraged him to buy them. He left them on the counter and I walked by the opened package over and over. Instead of hiding it from myself by taking it down to the pantry like I normally would, I ate some because the familiar (leptin?) cravings kicked in. I have an easier time keeping to one serving with the smaller portion controlled sealed bags. I was mad at hubby but apologized to him because it was my lack of resisting cravings that caused me to eat it. He didn't force me to have them.
So I have two things that encouraged me to overeat:
1. Seeing something that I really like.
2. Eating something I really like.
I'm only half way joking here and don't want to make light of this because it isn't so simple nor is it funny. But sometimes I have to laugh about it or I will cry. I hate the repercussions which is bloating in the hands and feet after I eat too much sodium.
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »What I'm see form the discussion is that there is a consensus that factors are different for different people and that they are a mix and degrees of these factors that influence overeating:
-Biological (from hormonal regulation, to craving, to diseases, to desire for sweetness, depression...)
-Behavioural (habits of sleep, eating patterns at home, work patterns, lack of activity patterns...)
-Environmental (social pressures, family and upraising, education, lifestyle, calorie availability ...)
I'm going to add to that self-perception - it's part biology, part environment but how we see ourselves as ok, not-ok in terms of weight, success and acceptance impacts how far we can let ourselves go. We are not purely objective when we look at ourselves and that self-perception also influences the other factors.
I can relate to these. Stress and lack of sleep are additional factors in my case.
Biological, behavioral, and environmental factots sum it up.
"Success and acceptance impacts how far we can let ourselves go" is very insightful. I have seen many people work like crazy to lose weight before a wedding or a trip or for a reunion, etc. It is almost like our desire to lose weight includes a vanity perspective. Also people who become single and available often lose weight for the dating market.1 -
So, besides sugar, salty things cause me to overeat also.
Sugary things and salty things are inanimate objects. They are just food. You are giving them power that they don't have. Why?
I don't mean to nitpick at your choice of words, but they way you frame this situation in your mind can alter your perception and limit the choices that you are able to see. I just wanted to offer you a bit of feedback for you to consider.
Another way of framing the situation is that you make choices to overeat sugary and salty foods that don't help you to achieve the goals you've set for yourself. You have ceded power to certain foods and, in doing so, you have absolved yourself of your personal responsibility to make choices that empower you.
You have lots of choices available to you when it comes to handling sugary and salty foods effectively. But as long as you hold onto the belief that they cause you to overeat, you will not be able to see those options and will continue in your comfortable behavior pattern.
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I watched an interesting documentary on how food is staged to make it look really palatable when photographed. One of the things they do is use motor oil on it to give it a nice sheen and enrich the colors. This got me thinking about ways to resist palatable looking food, and it made me remember an acquaintance of mine who was obsessed with chocolate milk and wanted to stop drinking it. Everytime she saw it in the store she imagined it had soured & curdled, or worse yet Gross Alert that it had maggots in it. It worked. So now when there is a bunch of really yummy food at work (which is a regular occurrence) and I want to stick to my plan, I imagine it with botulism or E. coli or Another Gross Alert hair or maggots in it. I do not touch it. Ugh. It works LOL!!!4
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Prelogging or staying away works for me too. Then I can tell myself that I have to keep with my daily program and will have more strength. I don't know why this is that I can control portions better while logging. But perhaps it is a reality check, and I don't want to go over the calories for the day.KetoneKaren wrote: »Ha! @EvgeniZyntx Good question. I would like to add that the combination of fat and carb like in french fries or potato chips is an "excitogen" for me so I either stay away or weigh them & eat them after pre-logging them which for some reason works for me. I woke up this morning thinking about this ongoing debate involving semantics. There certainly is something having to to with the pleasure centers of the brain that drives some of us to think about and crave certain foods, and it worsens or becomes more intense if we eat them so that we want them more.
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So, besides sugar, salty things cause me to overeat also.
Sugary things and salty things are inanimate objects. They are just food. You are giving them power that they don't have. Why?
Another way of framing the situation is that you make choices to overeat sugary and salty foods that don't help you to achieve the goals you've set for yourself. You have ceded power to certain foods and, in doing so, you have absolved yourself of your personal responsibility to make choices that empower you.
Not helpful for me. This may apply for you.
I make choices NOT to eat them. That gives me personal responsibility to avoid them. Not the other way around.5 -
I had a couple of hours drive to get to a client site this morning and while driving there was a phone-in show about obesity (because of a recent report highlighting an expected increase in obesity related illness in the UK in the next decade or so). What struck me about the phone in was that pretty much everyone that called in who was obese justified it one way or another - usually saying it was because of a medical condition. Just one lady called in and admitted that her being overweight was just simply because she was eating more than she thought (and she mentioned she realised that when she started tracking her food intake on MFP). Now while I'm sure that there are cases where a medical situation will be a factor it did sound like it many cases the excuses were just that - excuses.
I'm technically obese (current BMI is 31) and while I suppose I could justify it based on workload or work related stress the simple truth is that I'm overweight because I've been eating more calories that I'd been burning. The bottom line is that I can control my eating, I can exercise and I can make time for exercise - so solving the issue is entirely under my control - and I suspect most people are just like me.5
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