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Why do people overeat and/or become obese? Is it harder than average for some to lose weight?
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KetoneKaren wrote: »@SezxyStef As a matter of record, I do not think the word addiction is an accurate term to apply to the cravings and obsessive thinking that some people experience about food. My point was that you were throwing out the baby with the bathwater. She used a word "addict" that triggered a response from you that seemed to misinterpret the point she was making, i.e., that she found something that works for her and that she was not out of control or making excuses (as it seemed you were implying). I am not arguing semantics here, but rather overall interpretation of the post. It is clear from her response that she interpreted your comment : "I am not getting into a food addiction debate, I personally find that notion distasteful considering what happens during an actual addiction and the aftermath...and find that saying eating is out of your control an excuse to not change." the same way I did. There was nothing about her post that indicated she was making excuses or was out of control.
Yes it did trigger a response and in order to get my point across I have to use those terms. If you are going to claim addiction be prepared for people to assume you are out of control and/or using it as an excuse not to change. Does that mean I dismissed what she said? Probably...and why did I, because if people are going to claim addiction I have to infer they mean they are out of control and that is the only word they know to apply to their feelings...is it a semantic game? perhaps but in forums you have to be specific as there is no way to read other cues such as body language or tone...
Stef-- it isn't all or nothing. I think your definition of addiction is extreme. I drink 2 cups of coffee a day and consider that I have a mild caffeine addiction. I have a craving sensation after eating sweets, so I think I am addicted to sweets. People don't have to be completely out of control to qualify. I know if I eat sweets I will want to overeat so I stay away from them.7 -
@SezxyStef Off this topic, I am going to find a trainer to get me started doing StrongLifts safely (I am old and don't want to hurt myself). I noticed on your profile you did SL for a year and switched to something (Wendler) I am not familiar with. What made you decide to stop doing SL? Just curious as I am about to launch into it...0
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There have been some very insightful posts here.
From what I've gathered, some people feel a stronger pull towards food than others, which seems to stem from psychological roots. For these ones, it can be harder to control CI when food is often on the mind, when childhood experiences numbed their hunger/satiety signals, or when eating is a way to self-soothe, or something else entirely.
I think some probably feel a stronger pull just physically too, in the absence of actual hunger. I know the reverse is true, as I've known people who simply don't care about food (obviously they would if they experienced actual hunger, but with food abundant they seem uninterested in it).
I also think some people are probably more prone to certain kind of habitual attachments. Some people seem to feel very firm about being hungry or not, eating at particular times, so on, whereas others of us seem much more habit based. I know the schedule I eat on doesn't matter much to me, but I want to eat when I'm in the habit of eating, and when I build up a habit or association it can feel very hard to change and I'll constantly want to eat when I'm used to doing so. Change the habit and that goes away.6 -
I've used "craving" as a term to describe the feelings of sugar withdrawal on a different thtead and Stef retorted that everyone gets cravings. So I don't have a word to describe it. Eating an extra hotwing because I crave one isn't the same experience. I'm serious. I need a term to differentiate.
I've seen the term compulsion used a few times in this thread. Does that fit the bill?
I think it probably describes well what my friend experiences.
It is more like a gnawing feeling in the pit of my stomach along with an angsty, stressful sensation. I have learned to ignore it, but it feels like hunger. It usually happens when I am on 1200 calories in between meals.
I think this is a mental response to low calories. Even if you are eating enough to satisfy your body, your brain worries about not having enough. At least, that's how it makes sense to me. I think that's a physical reaction that is probably related to our natural protections against starvation. (That's actually one reason why "food addiction" seems such a weird topic -- we ARE addicted to food in the sense that we need to to survive so have various physical responses to make sure we get enough.)4 -
I'd also add that in most cases people struggle with 4 things:
1)The discipline to control what goes into their mouth. It sounds good to say I want to lose weight but until you understand what you're eating and what you shouldn't be eating. That's why it's always recommended to write down what you eat to visually understand why that person is over weight. The visual understanding starts to break down the understanding of how their previous choices had gotten them to where they are.
2)The dedication or drive (not to just want) to change their current life cycle/situation. It sounds good to want to lose weight, make a lifestyle change, but the cycle of normalcy HAS TO BE BROKEN or you will try to change and return to "normalcy" because it's easy, it's safe, and it's comfortable. That's where complacency dwells. It's easy to stay because "you've been this way for so long and you can change anytime you want" which is the adopted mindset. It's hard to get out of that unless there's something serious driving you.
3) Fear is very high on the list. So many to list! Fear of failure, fear of being laughed at, fear of not trying hard enough, fear of insufficient knowledge, fear of success, fear of what if, fear of CHANGE. Whatever the case may be, there seems to always to be some type of fear in the equation.
4) lack of knowledge. Not knowing enough to understand where they want to go and how to get there. Not just calories, macro-nutrients, and gallons of water. There's a diverse systematic approach that can be manipulated to enhance someone's lifestyle in the journey of weight loss. If you don't understand it, it's very difficult to apply the concepts. CI/CO isn't enough to educate someone on how to improve their current situation.
but these are the major things that work against people on both ends of the spectrum.15 -
Its an interesting topic with a myriad of differing reasons for chronic overeating and resulting weight gain and obesity. I have a pretty good knowledge base on calories and macros. I know exactly how to eat and how much based on my activity levels. On top of that I was a profession chef for a number of years and have the culinary knowledge to make incredibly tasty, lower calorie alternatives of many of my favorite foods.
Yet, here I am. Overweight again. I can be blunt and honest enough with myself. I can be lazy. I have enjoyed many many a weekend and weeknight for months spent doing nothing but watching tv and eating. I love ice cream and sweets like nobody's business and have a very hard time myself controlling my portion size on them. I routinely would go buy a lemon meringue pie or a tub of ice cream and eat the whole damn thing over the course of a night fully knowing that that is an obscene amount of calories and hating myself while at the same time loving the food.
I have been reading the Gabriel Method, and while I think most of the book is mumbo jumbo he does hit on some real points in the section on why mentally we allow ourselves or even in some cases actively pursue being overweight. There is much to be said for a lot of people who use their weight to hide from things. Past traumas, current stresses, perceived or real threats and fears. Feelings of not being worthy or hopelessness in their lives. I think for many people getting to the underlying issues of the why then enables the mechanism of success in losing weight, which is at it's basis controlling your energy equation. Your brain is powerful and in many ways still very primal.
I don't believe that coming to grasp and working on your mental reasons for why a person needs to eat an entire pie in one sitting then allows them to magically eat whatever they want and lose weight. I do think that coming to grips with issues that are affecting your relationship with food, your body and health does put you in a better mental state that allows a better decision making process in regards to portion size and food choices. That getting to a good place mentally makes you WANT to take care of your body and health. Want to choose those foods that help most people control their caloric intake. Want to get moving and increase the caloric burn.
The only issues I have with the CICO mentality is that yes while CICO is at the basis of weight loss, it is almost simplistic to the point of unhelpful to just keep banging people over the head with it. Telling someone they can eat 1500 Kcal of twinkies and lose weight doesn't help them to get a grasp on healthy eating or explain that a diet of 11 twinkies a day is going to leave them starving all day and more than likely to end up eating to much due to that hunger.
CICO is nothing more a mathematical formula, a physics equation. Real education had to go beyond the math to the realistic implementation of how to apply that math. How does one achieve and maintain the caloric balance without experiencing feelings of excess hunger or intense cravings that lead to overeating.
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KetoneKaren wrote: »@SezxyStef "I am not getting into a food addiction debate, I personally find that notion distasteful considering what happens during an actual addiction and the aftermath...and find that saying eating is out of your control an excuse to not change."
This is the part of your response to @DebSozo that I was referring to. She did not say eating is out of her control nor is she looking for an excuse to not change.
okay and? I do not for one sec believe in food addiction hence my statement...
therefore if I don't believe in food addiction I do not believe eating is out of control...
I dismissed the claim she is addicted to one carb but not another with a comparison...and will continue to dismiss the fallacy of food addiction.
and since I don't believe in food addiction I do actually have the right to dismiss the post....it's full of contra evidence that not even begin to support a claim of addiction.
but to be clear I am not just dismissing that post...I am dismissing any post that claims food addiction. Esp those with such illogical fallacies used to prove it.
And let me be clear I do believe that people can have issues with food and I do believe that certain foods are better to eat for some people than others....*just glad I am not one of them*
But this debate is why are people overeat...not is food addiction real and the cause of obesity.
You say that you are not going to debate addiction anymore yet you can't seem to avoid it. It's kind of comical.The debate is about why people overeat.
Yes let's get back to there. I suggested compulsion/addiction/some-other-stuff as one possible reason. Do you assert that none of those words are a viable reason for overeating? If so, why?
I know it's almost funny at this point...
but to your question...
I firmly believe that there are those that have a desire to eat to extremes, compulsion is a strong word that is included in the definition of addiction and equates to having no control...I have had relatives do that...sit and eat a full container of ice cream...or those with BED.
I firmly believe that there are those who use food as a coping mechanism or a way to help with issues they have that are not related to food...for example some women who are raped purposefully eat to get bigger thinking if they are less attractive it won't happen again...
I however will not ever say it is an addiction.
For the two points above I do believe that therapy can help...
I do however feel that lack of education and love of food are higher up in the reasons why people overeat.
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KetoneKaren wrote: »@SezxyStef Off this topic, I am going to find a trainer to get me started doing StrongLifts safely (I am old and don't want to hurt myself). I noticed on your profile you did SL for a year and switched to something (Wendler) I am not familiar with. What made you decide to stop doing SL? Just curious as I am about to launch into it...
I will PM you.1 -
I'd also add that in most cases people struggle with 4 things:
1)The discipline to control what goes into their mouth. It sounds good to say I want to lose weight but until you understand what you're eating and what you shouldn't be eating. That's why it's always recommended to write down what you eat to visually understand why that person is over weight. The visual understanding starts to break down the understanding of how their previous choices had gotten them to where they are.
2)The dedication or drive (not to just want) to change their current life cycle/situation. It sounds good to want to lose weight, make a lifestyle change, but the cycle of normalcy HAS TO BE BROKEN or you will try to change and return to "normalcy" because it's easy, it's safe, and it's comfortable. That's where complacency dwells. It's easy to stay because "you've been this way for so long and you can change anytime you want" which is the adopted mindset. It's hard to get out of that unless there's something serious driving you.
3) Fear is very high on the list. So many to list! Fear of failure, fear of being laughed at, fear of not trying hard enough, fear of insufficient knowledge, fear of success, fear of what if, fear of CHANGE. Whatever the case may be, there seems to always to be some type of fear in the equation.
4) lack of knowledge. Not knowing enough to understand where they want to go and how to get there. Not just calories, macro-nutrients, and gallons of water. There's a diverse systematic approach that can be manipulated to enhance someone's lifestyle in the journey of weight loss. If you don't understand it, it's very difficult to apply the concepts. CI/CO isn't enough to educate someone on how to improve their current situation.
but these are the major things that work against people on both ends of the spectrum.
awesome post.0 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »Its an interesting topic with a myriad of differing reasons for chronic overeating and resulting weight gain and obesity. I have a pretty good knowledge base on calories and macros. I know exactly how to eat and how much based on my activity levels. On top of that I was a profession chef for a number of years and have the culinary knowledge to make incredibly tasty, lower calorie alternatives of many of my favorite foods.
Yet, here I am. Overweight again. I can be blunt and honest enough with myself. I can be lazy. I have enjoyed many many a weekend and weeknight for months spent doing nothing but watching tv and eating. I love ice cream and sweets like nobody's business and have a very hard time myself controlling my portion size on them. I routinely would go buy a lemon meringue pie or a tub of ice cream and eat the whole damn thing over the course of a night fully knowing that that is an obscene amount of calories and hating myself while at the same time loving the food.
I have been reading the Gabriel Method, and while I think most of the book is mumbo jumbo he does hit on some real points in the section on why mentally we allow ourselves or even in some cases actively pursue being overweight. There is much to be said for a lot of people who use their weight to hide from things. Past traumas, current stresses, perceived or real threats and fears. Feelings of not being worthy or hopelessness in their lives. I think for many people getting to the underlying issues of the why then enables the mechanism of success in losing weight, which is at it's basis controlling your energy equation. Your brain is powerful and in many ways still very primal.
I don't believe that coming to grasp and working on your mental reasons for why a person needs to eat an entire pie in one sitting then allows them to magically eat whatever they want and lose weight. I do think that coming to grips with issues that are affecting your relationship with food, your body and health does put you in a better mental state that allows a better decision making process in regards to portion size and food choices. That getting to a good place mentally makes you WANT to take care of your body and health. Want to choose those foods that help most people control their caloric intake. Want to get moving and increase the caloric burn.
Agree with all this.The only issues I have with the CICO mentality is that yes while CICO is at the basis of weight loss, it is almost simplistic to the point of unhelpful to just keep banging people over the head with it. Telling someone they can eat 1500 Kcal of twinkies and lose weight doesn't help them to get a grasp on healthy eating or explain that a diet of 11 twinkies a day is going to leave them starving all day and more than likely to end up eating to much due to that hunger.
I just think it's rude and wrong to assume that anyone WOULD do something akin to eating only Twinkies or needs to be informed how to eat healthfully or to assume he or she would not have the common sense to experiment with diet to eat in a more sating way if struggling with hunger. If someone asks for advice on nutrition or how to avoid hunger, I give it, but mostly I think figuring out how to spend your 1500 calories is something YOU are the expert on. I would find it really condescending and offensive if someone else went out of their way to tell me not to eat only Twinkies (or, as often happens here, that I must cut out "white foods" or some nonsense). I know what a healthful diet is, and I expect other adults do too, unless they tell me otherwise. It's not nearly as complicated as we sometimes try to make it.CICO is nothing more a mathematical formula, a physics equation. Real education had to go beyond the math to the realistic implementation of how to apply that math. How does one achieve and maintain the caloric balance without experiencing feelings of excess hunger or intense cravings that lead to overeating.
For most people I think learning the nutrition side or the satiety side is the easy part (I know there are exceptions). For me, at least, the issue is never hunger or not knowing how to eat properly. It's that I like eating, on the one hand, and use food inappropriately, on the other.2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
I just think it's rude and wrong to assume that anyone WOULD do something akin to eating only Twinkies or needs to be informed how to eat healthfully or to assume he or she would not have the common sense to experiment with diet to eat in a more sating way if struggling with hunger. If someone asks for advice on nutrition or how to avoid hunger, I give it, but mostly I think figuring out how to spend your 1500 calories is something YOU are the expert on. I would find it really condescending and offensive if someone else went out of their way to tell me not to eat only Twinkies (or, as often happens here, that I must cut out "white foods" or some nonsense). I know what a healthful diet is, and I expect other adults do too, unless they tell me otherwise. It's not nearly as complicated as we sometimes try to make it.
For most people I think learning the nutrition side or the satiety side is the easy part (I know there are exceptions). For me, at least, the issue is never hunger or not knowing how to eat properly. It's that I like eating, on the one hand, and use food inappropriately, on the other.
See, I don't see that, What I often see on the boards here someone state for them, they find they can achieve their satiety and maintain their caloric goals by not eating "white foods" or cutting out sweets or going low carb or whatever it is they find works for them, and without fail someone shows up to tell them they are wrong and it's all and only CICO blah blah blah. That is the CICO talk I see on here daily I think is very unhelpful.
Yes it's CICO, but they find it easier to achieve CICO balance by not eating those foods, more power to them.
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BillMcKay1 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
I just think it's rude and wrong to assume that anyone WOULD do something akin to eating only Twinkies or needs to be informed how to eat healthfully or to assume he or she would not have the common sense to experiment with diet to eat in a more sating way if struggling with hunger. If someone asks for advice on nutrition or how to avoid hunger, I give it, but mostly I think figuring out how to spend your 1500 calories is something YOU are the expert on. I would find it really condescending and offensive if someone else went out of their way to tell me not to eat only Twinkies (or, as often happens here, that I must cut out "white foods" or some nonsense). I know what a healthful diet is, and I expect other adults do too, unless they tell me otherwise. It's not nearly as complicated as we sometimes try to make it.
For most people I think learning the nutrition side or the satiety side is the easy part (I know there are exceptions). For me, at least, the issue is never hunger or not knowing how to eat properly. It's that I like eating, on the one hand, and use food inappropriately, on the other.
See, I don't see that, What I often see on the boards here someone state for them, they find they can achieve their satiety and maintain their caloric goals by not eating "white foods" or cutting out sweets or going low carb or whatever it is they find works for them, and without fail someone shows up to tell them they are wrong and it's all and only CICO blah blah blah. That is the CICO talk I see on here daily I think is very unhelpful.
Yes it's CICO, but they find it easier to achieve CICO balance by not eating those foods, more power to them.
The scenario you lined out literally does not happen ever.1 -
stevencloser wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
I just think it's rude and wrong to assume that anyone WOULD do something akin to eating only Twinkies or needs to be informed how to eat healthfully or to assume he or she would not have the common sense to experiment with diet to eat in a more sating way if struggling with hunger. If someone asks for advice on nutrition or how to avoid hunger, I give it, but mostly I think figuring out how to spend your 1500 calories is something YOU are the expert on. I would find it really condescending and offensive if someone else went out of their way to tell me not to eat only Twinkies (or, as often happens here, that I must cut out "white foods" or some nonsense). I know what a healthful diet is, and I expect other adults do too, unless they tell me otherwise. It's not nearly as complicated as we sometimes try to make it.
For most people I think learning the nutrition side or the satiety side is the easy part (I know there are exceptions). For me, at least, the issue is never hunger or not knowing how to eat properly. It's that I like eating, on the one hand, and use food inappropriately, on the other.
See, I don't see that, What I often see on the boards here someone state for them, they find they can achieve their satiety and maintain their caloric goals by not eating "white foods" or cutting out sweets or going low carb or whatever it is they find works for them, and without fail someone shows up to tell them they are wrong and it's all and only CICO blah blah blah. That is the CICO talk I see on here daily I think is very unhelpful.
Yes it's CICO, but they find it easier to achieve CICO balance by not eating those foods, more power to them.
The scenario you lined out literally does not happen ever.
right...I certainly have not seen someone say I'm cutting out sugar and a bunch of people chime in, "why you can eat twinkies all day and lose weight." Never seen that happen.....8 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
I just think it's rude and wrong to assume that anyone WOULD do something akin to eating only Twinkies or needs to be informed how to eat healthfully or to assume he or she would not have the common sense to experiment with diet to eat in a more sating way if struggling with hunger. If someone asks for advice on nutrition or how to avoid hunger, I give it, but mostly I think figuring out how to spend your 1500 calories is something YOU are the expert on. I would find it really condescending and offensive if someone else went out of their way to tell me not to eat only Twinkies (or, as often happens here, that I must cut out "white foods" or some nonsense). I know what a healthful diet is, and I expect other adults do too, unless they tell me otherwise. It's not nearly as complicated as we sometimes try to make it.
For most people I think learning the nutrition side or the satiety side is the easy part (I know there are exceptions). For me, at least, the issue is never hunger or not knowing how to eat properly. It's that I like eating, on the one hand, and use food inappropriately, on the other.
See, I don't see that, What I often see on the boards here someone state for them, they find they can achieve their satiety and maintain their caloric goals by not eating "white foods" or cutting out sweets or going low carb or whatever it is they find works for them, and without fail someone shows up to tell them they are wrong and it's all and only CICO blah blah blah. That is the CICO talk I see on here daily I think is very unhelpful.
Yes it's CICO, but they find it easier to achieve CICO balance by not eating those foods, more power to them.
I see back and forth about omitting foods in this section, but more in the interest of understanding each other or the science behind cravings in regard to certain foods than trying to tell someone they're wrong. Everyone in here also understands CICO.
On the main forums, I see things like "I cut out bread but I miss it," so people tell them to eat the bread because CICO. Or I see people saying they've drastically reduced carbs/fat/meat and now they're SO HUNGRY, in which case the advice is to adjust their macros but stay under calorie goal, because CICO.
I kind of disagree with Lemur about the satiety part being easy to learn, though. In part because fats/carbs have been so demonized and people think they need to avoid them even though they're less hungry consuming them, and in part because if it takes someone too long to find a balance they may give up (who wants to be ravenous all the time?). My n=1: it took me multiple attempts to figure out how much fiber I needed to feel full, and it was a challenge to change my preferred food choices to get enough of it.2 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
I just think it's rude and wrong to assume that anyone WOULD do something akin to eating only Twinkies or needs to be informed how to eat healthfully or to assume he or she would not have the common sense to experiment with diet to eat in a more sating way if struggling with hunger. If someone asks for advice on nutrition or how to avoid hunger, I give it, but mostly I think figuring out how to spend your 1500 calories is something YOU are the expert on. I would find it really condescending and offensive if someone else went out of their way to tell me not to eat only Twinkies (or, as often happens here, that I must cut out "white foods" or some nonsense). I know what a healthful diet is, and I expect other adults do too, unless they tell me otherwise. It's not nearly as complicated as we sometimes try to make it.
For most people I think learning the nutrition side or the satiety side is the easy part (I know there are exceptions). For me, at least, the issue is never hunger or not knowing how to eat properly. It's that I like eating, on the one hand, and use food inappropriately, on the other.
See, I don't see that, What I often see on the boards here someone state for them, they find they can achieve their satiety and maintain their caloric goals by not eating "white foods" or cutting out sweets or going low carb or whatever it is they find works for them, and without fail someone shows up to tell them they are wrong and it's all and only CICO blah blah blah. That is the CICO talk I see on here daily I think is very unhelpful.
Yes it's CICO, but they find it easier to achieve CICO balance by not eating those foods, more power to them.
The scenario you lined out literally does not happen ever.
right...I certainly have not seen someone say I'm cutting out sugar and a bunch of people chime in, "why you can eat twinkies all day and lose weight." Never seen that happen.....
But are people cutting out sugar for satiety or because they think they have to to lose weight? Most of the time it's the latter.1 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
I just think it's rude and wrong to assume that anyone WOULD do something akin to eating only Twinkies or needs to be informed how to eat healthfully or to assume he or she would not have the common sense to experiment with diet to eat in a more sating way if struggling with hunger. If someone asks for advice on nutrition or how to avoid hunger, I give it, but mostly I think figuring out how to spend your 1500 calories is something YOU are the expert on. I would find it really condescending and offensive if someone else went out of their way to tell me not to eat only Twinkies (or, as often happens here, that I must cut out "white foods" or some nonsense). I know what a healthful diet is, and I expect other adults do too, unless they tell me otherwise. It's not nearly as complicated as we sometimes try to make it.
For most people I think learning the nutrition side or the satiety side is the easy part (I know there are exceptions). For me, at least, the issue is never hunger or not knowing how to eat properly. It's that I like eating, on the one hand, and use food inappropriately, on the other.
See, I don't see that, What I often see on the boards here someone state for them, they find they can achieve their satiety and maintain their caloric goals by not eating "white foods" or cutting out sweets or going low carb or whatever it is they find works for them, and without fail someone shows up to tell them they are wrong and it's all and only CICO blah blah blah. That is the CICO talk I see on here daily I think is very unhelpful.
Yes it's CICO, but they find it easier to achieve CICO balance by not eating those foods, more power to them.
I've seen it tons of times.
I also don't see someone saying "this helps me with satiety" and anyone challenging that. What I do see is someone saying "I know I should not eat white foods" or "I am following this plan that cuts out all 'white foods'" and people saying "you don't need to do that." I agree that sometimes people can be a little too pushy, but given the terrible and misleading information out there, I think telling people that these diet myths and fads are unnecessary can be helpful. Having tried some myself, I personally would just say "I realize that, but I want to see how this works for me" and leave it at that. I doubt anyone would argue with me if I did.
But anyway, this is somewhat off the point I was trying to make. Often people complain (and it sounded as if you were) that people say "for weight loss calories are what matter" without also advising someone to eat a healthful diet or not to eat only Twinkies or the like. IMO, that's usually unnecessary and can be rude/condescending. I mean, you have no reason to think I lack knowledge of a healthful diet or don't eat one now -- why would you (hypothetically) tell me that I'd do better if I didn't eat only Twinkies. No one sensible (well, other than someone doing a demonstration or experiment) would eat only Twinkies, so you would be implicitly saying you assume I'm not sensible. I prefer to act as if other adults are smart enough to figure out something so simple as how to eat properly unless they ask for advice or thoughts.
That said, of course if someone asks (as people constantly do) "can I eat all junk food and lose" I will say "yes, but it's not great nutritionally or for health, for that of course you should eat a healthful, balanced diet." Most posts I see on that topic are similar to my answer, also.0 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
I just think it's rude and wrong to assume that anyone WOULD do something akin to eating only Twinkies or needs to be informed how to eat healthfully or to assume he or she would not have the common sense to experiment with diet to eat in a more sating way if struggling with hunger. If someone asks for advice on nutrition or how to avoid hunger, I give it, but mostly I think figuring out how to spend your 1500 calories is something YOU are the expert on. I would find it really condescending and offensive if someone else went out of their way to tell me not to eat only Twinkies (or, as often happens here, that I must cut out "white foods" or some nonsense). I know what a healthful diet is, and I expect other adults do too, unless they tell me otherwise. It's not nearly as complicated as we sometimes try to make it.
For most people I think learning the nutrition side or the satiety side is the easy part (I know there are exceptions). For me, at least, the issue is never hunger or not knowing how to eat properly. It's that I like eating, on the one hand, and use food inappropriately, on the other.
See, I don't see that, What I often see on the boards here someone state for them, they find they can achieve their satiety and maintain their caloric goals by not eating "white foods" or cutting out sweets or going low carb or whatever it is they find works for them, and without fail someone shows up to tell them they are wrong and it's all and only CICO blah blah blah. That is the CICO talk I see on here daily I think is very unhelpful.
Yes it's CICO, but they find it easier to achieve CICO balance by not eating those foods, more power to them.
The scenario you lined out literally does not happen ever.
right...I certainly have not seen someone say I'm cutting out sugar and a bunch of people chime in, "why you can eat twinkies all day and lose weight." Never seen that happen.....
No, I've never seen it happen in that way, not even close.0 -
I think a big part of it is how our brain normalizes things we are use to. How we are brought up is our normal. In other words, it's habit. And habit can be pretty powerful and stubborn. Our mind and body instantly feel deprived when we are asking ourselves to eat less than usual. Of course there's a lot more to being over weight, but I think this applies for part of why some people eat more and crave more.1
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BillMcKay1 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
I just think it's rude and wrong to assume that anyone WOULD do something akin to eating only Twinkies or needs to be informed how to eat healthfully or to assume he or she would not have the common sense to experiment with diet to eat in a more sating way if struggling with hunger. If someone asks for advice on nutrition or how to avoid hunger, I give it, but mostly I think figuring out how to spend your 1500 calories is something YOU are the expert on. I would find it really condescending and offensive if someone else went out of their way to tell me not to eat only Twinkies (or, as often happens here, that I must cut out "white foods" or some nonsense). I know what a healthful diet is, and I expect other adults do too, unless they tell me otherwise. It's not nearly as complicated as we sometimes try to make it.
For most people I think learning the nutrition side or the satiety side is the easy part (I know there are exceptions). For me, at least, the issue is never hunger or not knowing how to eat properly. It's that I like eating, on the one hand, and use food inappropriately, on the other.
See, I don't see that, What I often see on the boards here someone state for them, they find they can achieve their satiety and maintain their caloric goals by not eating "white foods" or cutting out sweets or going low carb or whatever it is they find works for them, and without fail someone shows up to tell them they are wrong and it's all and only CICO blah blah blah. That is the CICO talk I see on here daily I think is very unhelpful.
Yes it's CICO, but they find it easier to achieve CICO balance by not eating those foods, more power to them.
The scenario you lined out literally does not happen ever.
right...I certainly have not seen someone say I'm cutting out sugar and a bunch of people chime in, "why you can eat twinkies all day and lose weight." Never seen that happen.....
Yea, that wasn't your claim in the scenario. Goal posts moved...2 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
I just think it's rude and wrong to assume that anyone WOULD do something akin to eating only Twinkies or needs to be informed how to eat healthfully or to assume he or she would not have the common sense to experiment with diet to eat in a more sating way if struggling with hunger. If someone asks for advice on nutrition or how to avoid hunger, I give it, but mostly I think figuring out how to spend your 1500 calories is something YOU are the expert on. I would find it really condescending and offensive if someone else went out of their way to tell me not to eat only Twinkies (or, as often happens here, that I must cut out "white foods" or some nonsense). I know what a healthful diet is, and I expect other adults do too, unless they tell me otherwise. It's not nearly as complicated as we sometimes try to make it.
For most people I think learning the nutrition side or the satiety side is the easy part (I know there are exceptions). For me, at least, the issue is never hunger or not knowing how to eat properly. It's that I like eating, on the one hand, and use food inappropriately, on the other.
See, I don't see that, What I often see on the boards here someone state for them, they find they can achieve their satiety and maintain their caloric goals by not eating "white foods" or cutting out sweets or going low carb or whatever it is they find works for them, and without fail someone shows up to tell them they are wrong and it's all and only CICO blah blah blah. That is the CICO talk I see on here daily I think is very unhelpful.
Yes it's CICO, but they find it easier to achieve CICO balance by not eating those foods, more power to them.
The scenario you lined out literally does not happen ever.
right...I certainly have not seen someone say I'm cutting out sugar and a bunch of people chime in, "why you can eat twinkies all day and lose weight." Never seen that happen.....
Yea, that wasn't your claim in the scenario. Goal posts moved...
I'm going to drop this as it is derailing the thread but...
"maintain their caloric goals by not eating "white foods" or cutting out sweets or going low carb or whatever it is they find works for them"
Cutting out sweets was right in my scenario. Goal posts right where I left them.6
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