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Why do people overeat and/or become obese? Is it harder than average for some to lose weight?
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »All of the customs and conventions surrounding food that worked to keep us healthy and retain a normal appetite are no longer in place. And even worse we don't think they matter. Anytime is a good time to eat. Anything is a good thing to eat.
Refined carbs/ultra processed foods and eating all of the time plays havock with our hormones and has ruined our appetites. People crave food, can't go longer than a few hours without eating or the feel ill, never feel physical hunger, never feel full, have uncontrollable eating - the list of what's wrong is endless and you'll hear people talk about it over and over on these forums. All of these things are common but none of them are normal.
Snacking ruins your appetite. Cleaning your plate was encouraged because if you didn't you'd be hungry - you ate until you were full and couldn't/didn't want to eat any more. But if you were hungry that was ok. You didn't bring emergency food with you outside of the house and kids were sent to bed without dinner as a punishment. Which was absolutely fine when your appetite is working correctly and your blood sugar and hormones aren't out of whack.
Of course today that's all nonsense. Everyone one knows calories in, calories out is how you manage your weight. What you eat and when you eat doesn't matter.
I really enjoyed reading that. I was partially raised by my grandparents. Their meals, our eating patterns were so completely different from what I hear happens now days. It boggles me why there isn't even more obesity tbh.
5 -
seekingdaintiness wrote: »There's a lot of misinformation out there. One big piece of it is the oft repeated "2000 calories a day is a healthy diet". That isn't true for everyone. I gained steadily on an average of 2000 healthy calories a day. I do have PCOS, but even if I didn't, smaller women can have slower metabolisms and don't necessarily need that amount of food, especially as they age.
There's a perception that everyone who becomes very overweight does so by eating fast food 2-3 times a day or otherwise eating junk, but simply by having second helpings or one snack too many over enough time, you can gain an enormous amount of weight in just a few years. Accordingly it was a real shock when I had to finally face how strictly I had to diet in order to lose. I'm still bitter about it, especially when people continue to believe I spent years pigging out constantly. But I have given up on trying to change anyone's mind. They can believe I'm a hog who stuffs my face all they want - I know it was never true.
I know what you mean about the 2000 calories. I always heard that and so thought it applied to me, too. What a disappointment to learn I need less than that!4 -
I was able to maintain on 2000, its just that I didn't like the size I was maintaining on 2000. lol23
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I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
ETA: @JaneSnowe let me know if you don't want the thread to be another addiction debate and I'll delete my comment.
I think there are people out there who believe that this happens to them and feel that it's out of their control. I think it's valid to bring this up and I'd like to hear from anyone who feels this way. I'm curious what they think would help them if CICO seems out of their control.
I don't know if that is the right terminology (CICO being out of control). I think the way it was phrased in your OP is a little better.What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed?
That is what I was trying to address with my opinion.
Regarding what they think would help them, I think most find help though addressing underlying issues on the mental side of the problem. There are usually mental or emotional situations which drive people to those behaviors. They can recover from those issues using various types of treatments or methodologies such as Cognitive Behavior Therapy or other programs.2 -
There's about as many answers to this as there are stars in the sky...
For me, I just didn't know. I was very active most of my life up until I turned 30 and graduated college and took a desk job...I suddenly became much more sedentary but maintained my previous eating habits because it never really dawned on me that those should change as well.
I was never a binge eater or anything like that...no emotional issues with food...no sugar "addictions", etc...just became way less active and maintained my previous eating habits.7 -
I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
ETA: @JaneSnowe let me know if you don't want the thread to be another addiction debate and I'll delete my comment.
I think there are people out there who believe that this happens to them and feel that it's out of their control. I think it's valid to bring this up and I'd like to hear from anyone who feels this way. I'm curious what they think would help them if CICO seems out of their control.
I don't know if that is the right terminology (CICO being out of control). I think the way it was phrased in your OP is a little better.What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed?
That is what I was trying to address with my opinion.
Regarding what they think would help them, I think most find help though addressing underlying issues on the mental side of the problem. There are usually mental or emotional situations which drive people to those behaviors. They can recover from those issues using various types of treatments or methodologies such as Cognitive Behavior Therapy or other programs.
Good points.
Sometimes, when I see people here on MFP say that not everything is CICO (or whatever words they use when they think their systems are more complicated than what's normal) it makes me wonder what they want people to say to them and why they are on a calorie counting site to begin with. I'd really like to hear what they have to say.
There was someone the other day talking about "outliers" and I wish she'd said what help she thinks can be given to them if not CICO.1 -
Having done it myself, I understand why people overeat and become overweight. Pleasure. Food tastes good. Beer and wine makes me feel good. Sharing food and drink with friends is fun and relaxing.
I really don't understand becoming very overweight or obese. I don't know what makes some nip it in the bud before it gets really out of control while others take to a level that to me would seem to take the pleasure out of it.9 -
alyssa_rest wrote: »I don't know if there is a right answer. One thing I've learned through my own struggle and research is that your body craves nutrients. When it feels as though it is lacking one, it demands more. When you have had what is required, you become full. That is why eating one chicken breast and steamed veggies will fill you up quicker and for a longer time period than indulging in an entire bag of chips.
Are there any studies that back this up? I've heard this several times, but never seen any references to back this line of thinking up.
I'd argue the that chicken breast and veggies are more filling because:
1. More protein, which is filling
2. More fiber, which is filling
3. More volume per calorie, which is more filling
4. Not as tasty, so you are less likely to keep eating beyond hunger.9 -
I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
That's fine.
Are you saying I lack education or the people I am talking about lack education. What education is lacking?
I think the majority of people who are overweight/obese lack education in anything food related.
I watched an episode of my 600lb life...the guy gained weight and the doctor was asking why? the patient said "I don't know I should be losing I switched out my white bread for whole wheat"....seriously.
And based on my own experience I knew about calories from being a teenager and having my mother diet all the time...but had no clue on how to lose weight and maintain...
I could lose like a demon...but gain it back.
diet books, diet websites, diet pills, diet programs aka WW etc...all teach people how to lose but not how to maintain...
and as adults if we weren't taught about nutrition and calories how do we teach our kids??????
So, you're basically saying people with weight problems do not know lack education on how to maintain?
No what I am saying is most people have no idea how calories work.8 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Having done it myself, I understand why people overeat and become overweight. Pleasure. Food tastes good. Beer and wine makes me feel good. Sharing food and drink with friends is fun and relaxing.
I really don't understand becoming very overweight or obese. I don't know what makes some nip it in the bud before it gets really out of control while others take to a level that to me would seem to take the pleasure out of it.
I wonder about this too. I know it's a complex subject, not as simple as "food tastes good and releases dopamine".3 -
I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
That's fine.
Are you saying I lack education or the people I am talking about lack education. What education is lacking?
I think the majority of people who are overweight/obese lack education in anything food related.
I watched an episode of my 600lb life...the guy gained weight and the doctor was asking why? the patient said "I don't know I should be losing I switched out my white bread for whole wheat"....seriously.
And based on my own experience I knew about calories from being a teenager and having my mother diet all the time...but had no clue on how to lose weight and maintain...
I could lose like a demon...but gain it back.
diet books, diet websites, diet pills, diet programs aka WW etc...all teach people how to lose but not how to maintain...
and as adults if we weren't taught about nutrition and calories how do we teach our kids??????
So, you're basically saying people with weight problems do not know lack education on how to maintain?
No what I am saying is most people have no idea how calories work.
But...what if they do?
I was overweight, I still am by many standards. I surly know how calories work. I fully understand the concepts of CICO. I also understand the consequences of overeating. I have struggled with weight my entire life. It was necessary for me to learn about these things early on. There are many like me. Why didn't this knowledge help us to lose the weight and maintain weight loss?14 -
I think that some people don't believe CICO "works" or, perhaps, that it's the only factor that need be considered because they tried it and it didn't work. Or rather, to be more accurate, was perceived not to work. If someone's "CO" part of the equation is massively off from where it ought to be - after trying all the online calculators and getting a consensus number - for some reason then their deficit will be lower than they think. This either results in losing nothing (if the deficit was small to start with) or losing at a drastically reduced weight.
It's natural to then think "there's something else beyond just CICO!"
This is something that happened to me. If I go by numbers calculated for a woman of my height, weight, and age for BMR (and then multiply that x 1.2 for a "sedentary" figure) which is out by 200 calories - almost a half pound every week. That, combined with natural logging inaccuracies, meant that my projected 1.5lb/week loss according to MFP very very quickly became 0.75lb if I was lucky.
Why? Because I'm menopausal. Metabolically speaking, I burn as much as someone 30 years older than me. Once I put "age: 55" into those calculators and worked everything out, suddenly I lose at, or close to, the rate I "ought" to be. My sedentary TDEE isn't 1850... it's 1650.
Of course, if I were trying to maintain on those initial figures, I'd have gained weight. The lower calorie requirement also means I gain weight faster/easier than other women by age, height, and weight. It means I lose it slower. Once I went into menopause at age 20 (? 21? thereabouts who even remembers) my weight ballooned and at no point did any medical professional (even though the menopause was and continues to be induced, via drugs, by a doctor) explain the reasoning. In fact, they all shook their heads and "didn't know why" I gained 50lb in 2 years. My half-pound-a-week gain was a complete mystery to them, because my diet and exercise hadn't changed.
Does that mean CICO doesn't work? Of course not. It means I had the wrong CO number to start with. But it's easy to see how someone who's BMR/TDEE is far off could get to the point of thinking it doesn't and start looking to other reasons and methods.
(Side-note this probably effects my exercise-based CO as well but I don't eat back all of mine anyway)10 -
I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
That's fine.
Are you saying I lack education or the people I am talking about lack education. What education is lacking?
I think the majority of people who are overweight/obese lack education in anything food related.
I watched an episode of my 600lb life...the guy gained weight and the doctor was asking why? the patient said "I don't know I should be losing I switched out my white bread for whole wheat"....seriously.
And based on my own experience I knew about calories from being a teenager and having my mother diet all the time...but had no clue on how to lose weight and maintain...
I could lose like a demon...but gain it back.
diet books, diet websites, diet pills, diet programs aka WW etc...all teach people how to lose but not how to maintain...
and as adults if we weren't taught about nutrition and calories how do we teach our kids??????
So, you're basically saying people with weight problems do not know lack education on how to maintain?
No what I am saying is most people have no idea how calories work.
I'm not sure I believe this is true of most. It doesn't seem to mesh with the number of posts asking "why can't I stop overeating" or "how do I stop binge eating" or "how do I break my addiction to sugar"
To me these sound more like issues with control of cravings than a lack of knowledge that too many calories are being consumed.13 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Having done it myself, I understand why people overeat and become overweight. Pleasure. Food tastes good. Beer and wine makes me feel good. Sharing food and drink with friends is fun and relaxing.
I really don't understand becoming very overweight or obese. I don't know what makes some nip it in the bud before it gets really out of control while others take to a level that to me would seem to take the pleasure out of it.
I wonder about this too. I know it's a complex subject, not as simple as "food tastes good and releases dopamine".
True. The same question can be asked about people who lose limbs due to diabetes even though they have been told of the dangers and given ample time to correct it. There are people who have lost jobs because of it.
There is no good reason for it. It is a mental malady.5 -
Here's what I said in the other thread:
Isn't it the person herself (or himself) who can identify why [he or she overeats or became overweight]? Sure, research into such things as environmental factors or what foods are more satisfying, on average (as this varies), and hormonal factors are all good things to know and supplement your understanding with, but there is no one-size-fits-all reason why a particular person is eating more than he or she should. That's why the most important thing is to admit that's the case and then think through why it is and come up with a plan that fits you. Starvation mode as typically understood (as well as Teta's theories, to some degree, although he also says some thing I agree with) seem designed to allow people to avoid the acknowledgement that they are indeed eating too much -- to claim, as I've amazingly seen lots of people do on MFP over my time here, that they got fat because they just eat too little and struggle to eat more.9 -
sashayoung72 wrote: »alyssa_rest wrote: »I don't know if there is a right answer. One thing I've learned through my own struggle and research is that your body craves nutrients. When it feels as though it is lacking one, it demands more. When you have had what is required, you become full. That is why eating one chicken breast and steamed veggies will fill you up quicker and for a longer time period than indulging in an entire bag of chips. Doesn't mean it tastes better though, haha! CICO does work. It's scientifically proven and no one can argue that. I think that many people are totally unaware of how effective it is. And yes, you can eat "healthy foods" all you want. It is easy to even over-eat what's deemed as "healthy" as well. Those uneducated on CICO don't understand that. Or maybe they even don't WANT to understand.
see I beg to differ because I eat the healthier foods, I love veggies etc, WHAT I CRAVE is the complete opposite, i CRAVE the ice cream, the salty chips and other so called non-healthy food.
And to that, I would say your brain and tastebuds crave the ice cream, chips and non-healthy food. Your body wants what it needs. My brain, and ESPECIALLY my tastebuds, tells me I want to eat chocolate every day and luckily, due to CICO and leaving room in my calorie deficit, I can. But I also need to make sure I get other nutrients to keep my body functioning correctly.
The brain is a complex son of a *kitten* :P2 -
I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:
In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.
The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.
The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.
Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.
I don't believe this for one second.
Lack of education.
That's fine.
Are you saying I lack education or the people I am talking about lack education. What education is lacking?
I think the majority of people who are overweight/obese lack education in anything food related.
I watched an episode of my 600lb life...the guy gained weight and the doctor was asking why? the patient said "I don't know I should be losing I switched out my white bread for whole wheat"....seriously.
And based on my own experience I knew about calories from being a teenager and having my mother diet all the time...but had no clue on how to lose weight and maintain...
I could lose like a demon...but gain it back.
diet books, diet websites, diet pills, diet programs aka WW etc...all teach people how to lose but not how to maintain...
and as adults if we weren't taught about nutrition and calories how do we teach our kids??????
So, you're basically saying people with weight problems do not know lack education on how to maintain?
No what I am saying is most people have no idea how calories work.
OK. There seem to be some people who understand well how calories and cico work but they still can't do it.
Do you agree?
5 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Starvation mode as typically understood (as well as Teta's theories, to some degree, although he also says some thing I agree with) seem designed to allow people to avoid the acknowledgement that they are indeed eating too much -- to claim, as I've amazingly seen lots of people do on MFP over my time here, that they got fat because they just eat too little and struggle to eat more.
Yes, this as well! When I started ballooning from the drugs even though I was eating as I had before (given I was 125lb at the start, this was around 1700 calories for maintenance but in reality we now know my maintenance at that weight would have been 1500...) and then wasn't losing the weight despite dropping my cals - I don't remember how low, but probably to an estimated 1200 as this was before I was on MFP with the more accurate logging so I was probably eating very close to maintenance - MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS told me I wasn't losing weight because I was "eating too little" and that I should eat more in order to lose weight.
Of course, the only thing that achieved was gaining even more of it.6 -
The_Enginerd wrote: »alyssa_rest wrote: »I don't know if there is a right answer. One thing I've learned through my own struggle and research is that your body craves nutrients. When it feels as though it is lacking one, it demands more. When you have had what is required, you become full. That is why eating one chicken breast and steamed veggies will fill you up quicker and for a longer time period than indulging in an entire bag of chips.
Are there any studies that back this up? I've heard this several times, but never seen any references to back this line of thinking up.
I'd argue the that chicken breast and veggies are more filling because:
1. More protein, which is filling
2. More fiber, which is filling
3. More volume per calorie, which is more filling
4. Not as tasty, so you are less likely to keep eating beyond hunger.
Well, you pretty much helped explain my point. Protein is filling, fiber is filling. I could eat 300 calories of chicken and veggies or 300 calories of chips. Which would make me feel full and satisfy me? The chicken and veggies. Hence why I think nutrients are helpful to curb hunger and stay within your calorie goals. Not saying anyone needs to go and start counting macros, because that doesn't always fit for everyone. This is from me reading more about how the body works in regards to breaking down food into energy. I could find the book I read if it would help?1 -
I really don't find it particularly surprising that people overeat and gain weight, and I certainly don't think it's contrary to CICO in any way. Nor do I think it makes "put down the fork" bad advice, although I know it can be challenging for lots of reasons.
We evolved in circumstances in which not having enough food was an issue and surplus food was not, and where we were required to be active. Throughout human history (until quite recently) activity was necessary and scarcity was the main concern, and on top of that all cultures had customs and rituals that regulated eating in some way (similar to how other basic urges, like sex, are regulated by culture). It was beneficial for humans, also, to be able to eat when food was available and go without when not, such that we can adapt to not eating/eating little for a period of time (periods of scarcity) and eat more than we need immediately when food is available. As a result, the assumption by some that a healthy human won't eat more than maintenance naturally is questionable -- why would we have evolved to prevent something that was not an issue? It's amazing how out bodies adapt to keep an equilibrium as is.
So given all that, put us in a situation of abundance, with food around at all times that we don't even have to prepare ourselves if we don't want to, a culture that says "eat whenever you feel like it, and for pure pleasure, not for hunger or according to overarching culture," I think it's completely unsurprising that many people overeat and gain weight. It's normal for humans to feel desire to eat tasty and available food when it is present and therefore in the mind. Not everyone feels that way, but that it's common, not surprising.
Add to this that many humans are bad with short term vs. long term tradeoffs -- yeah, overeating will keep you fat and eating less will allow for lost weight, but that will take a long time and it's easy to think one day or one meal won't matter and keep repeating that. And that's even before taking into account how easy it is to use any form of pleasure in a distorted or misplaced way, the power of habit, cultural associations with food (reminds me of a happy occasion or some such), and before worrying about actual messed up relationships with food and weight (which I think often feed into a cycle).24
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