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Hot topics! Sugar in fruit
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Christine_72 wrote: »I just tried looking at 6 diaries (i gave up after that) of the pro sugar supporters on this thread, either they are all closed or they dont log at all... Winogelatos was the only one that was open, and she seems to eat a moderate amount of sugar.
To all of those with closed diaries, how much sugar do you get on average everyday? For full disclosure, I get between 35g and up to 80g max.Christine_72 wrote: »I just tried looking at 6 diaries (i gave up after that) of the pro sugar supporters on this thread, either they are all closed or they dont log at all... Winogelatos was the only one that was open, and she seems to eat a moderate amount of sugar.
To all of those with closed diaries, how much sugar do you get on average everyday? For full disclosure, I get between 35g and up to 80g max.
That's hilarious coming from someone with a private profile and closed diary....
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Christine_72 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I just tried looking at 6 diaries (i gave up after that) of the pro sugar supporters on this thread, either they are all closed or they dont log at all... Winogelatos was the only one that was open, and she seems to eat a moderate amount of sugar.
To all of those with closed diaries, how much sugar do you get on average everyday? For full disclosure, I get between 35g and up to 80g max.
Curious what hypothesis you were trying to prove with looking at people's diaries. I don't mind, I have mine open and have no qualms about it, but when you say that you think I eat a moderate amount of sugar - were you expecting it to be higher or lower than that? Also, I hope it is not a surprise that I eat a moderate amount of sugar, since I am an advocate for moderation...
I wasn't sure what to expect, maybe huge amounts of sugar consumption.
You mean like eat Twinkies, day in and day out? My diary is open too!
Yeah maybe lol I guess when i read about people not really caring about sugar consumption, then i really do expect them not to care.
Glad to be the one to enlighten you. I said this earlier in the thread, I'm really not sure why people interpret things the way that they do... Saying that people don't need to be concerned about added sugar in the context of a varied diet when they have no medical reason to restrict it is not the same as saying, "I don't care about limits, I'm an adult, I can eat what I want, bring on the pixie sticks and mountain dew!!!"1 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I just tried looking at 6 diaries (i gave up after that) of the pro sugar supporters on this thread, either they are all closed or they dont log at all... Winogelatos was the only one that was open, and she seems to eat a moderate amount of sugar.
To all of those with closed diaries, how much sugar do you get on average everyday? For full disclosure, I get between 35g and up to 80g max.Christine_72 wrote: »I just tried looking at 6 diaries (i gave up after that) of the pro sugar supporters on this thread, either they are all closed or they dont log at all... Winogelatos was the only one that was open, and she seems to eat a moderate amount of sugar.
To all of those with closed diaries, how much sugar do you get on average everyday? For full disclosure, I get between 35g and up to 80g max.
That's hilarious coming from someone with a private profile and closed diary....
My profile and diary has always been public.0 -
What on earth is going on in this thread.sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I just tried looking at 6 diaries (i gave up after that) of the pro sugar supporters on this thread, either they are all closed or they dont log at all... Winogelatos was the only one that was open, and she seems to eat a moderate amount of sugar.
To all of those with closed diaries, how much sugar do you get on average everyday? For full disclosure, I get between 35g and up to 80g max.
And you are the judge of what exactly? I really don't care what overweight people think. That said, I'll open it. I don't eat much because my cravings aren't sugar. I log when I'm dieting down when I think it will help. Sometimes I don't.
??? Christine's not overweight???Christine_72 wrote: »I just tried looking at 6 diaries (i gave up after that) of the pro sugar supporters on this thread, either they are all closed or they dont log at all... Winogelatos was the only one that was open, and she seems to eat a moderate amount of sugar.
To all of those with closed diaries, how much sugar do you get on average everyday? For full disclosure, I get between 35g and up to 80g max.Christine_72 wrote: »I just tried looking at 6 diaries (i gave up after that) of the pro sugar supporters on this thread, either they are all closed or they dont log at all... Winogelatos was the only one that was open, and she seems to eat a moderate amount of sugar.
To all of those with closed diaries, how much sugar do you get on average everyday? For full disclosure, I get between 35g and up to 80g max.
That's hilarious coming from someone with a private profile and closed diary....
??? Her profile and diary are open to me.Christine_72 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I just tried looking at 6 diaries (i gave up after that) of the pro sugar supporters on this thread, either they are all closed or they dont log at all... Winogelatos was the only one that was open, and she seems to eat a moderate amount of sugar.
To all of those with closed diaries, how much sugar do you get on average everyday? For full disclosure, I get between 35g and up to 80g max.
Curious what hypothesis you were trying to prove with looking at people's diaries. I don't mind, I have mine open and have no qualms about it, but when you say that you think I eat a moderate amount of sugar - were you expecting it to be higher or lower than that? Also, I hope it is not a surprise that I eat a moderate amount of sugar, since I am an advocate for moderation...
I wasn't sure what to expect, maybe huge amounts of sugar consumption.
You mean like eat Twinkies, day in and day out? My diary is open too!
Yeah maybe lol I guess when i read about people not really caring about sugar consumption, then i really do expect them not to care.
????? WinoGelato in particular has described her sugar consumption in various threads as being an Oreo (just one!) or a serving of gelato or whatnot. And several of us in the moderation camp talk frequently about the importance of a balanced diet, how we go about getting our nutrition in first and enjoying treats with leftover calories... Which means we won't consume much sugar. I'd share my diary, but I haven't logged in weeks out of laziness. My weight's been slowly dropping anyway, so I figure I'm good. I get between 35 and 70g of sugar total unless I intentionally have a big dessert for a special meal.
What the kitten is with all the weird assumptions??? It's not Friday yet....!6 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I just tried looking at 6 diaries (i gave up after that) of the pro sugar supporters on this thread, either they are all closed or they dont log at all... Winogelatos was the only one that was open, and she seems to eat a moderate amount of sugar.
To all of those with closed diaries, how much sugar do you get on average everyday? For full disclosure, I get between 35g and up to 80g max.
I don't log, but I've been having a serving of ice cream about 2-3 times a week and no other major sources of added sugar from my regular diet. I occasionally get a sandwich that has mango chutney and stuff like that. Eat 1-2 servings of fruit most days and lots of vegetables. However, I've been experimenting with different endurance sports products (gels and the like) so when I consume them that adds something. Looking back at when I logged it would range between 20 and 50 total sugar most days, but I wasn't experimenting with the gels then.0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Yeah. I mean I understand that, I was just thinking if one is doing more intense workouts they would automatically be able to fit more sugar in their diet as it is due to increased energy expenditure.ForecasterJason wrote: »
If you're active, then by default you'd be expending more energy than the typical person. So 10% of 2000 calories is about 13 tsp of sugar, but more like 20 tsp for 3000 calories. I don't see why the percentage should be thrown out the window for those expending more energy, as keeping to a percentage of total calories will automatically raise the upper limit.sunnybeaches105 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".
No that isn't it. The root of this is many don't realize how little sugar is really too much sugar. While safe levels are still being determined, the WHO recommends no more than 6 teaspoons (~25 grams) of added sugar or sugar from beverages a day. On can 12 oz can of soda can contain 11 teaspoons of sugar and some juices are even higher than that. 4 oz of juice max is moderation.
http://who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
In the meantime there is a camp of people that are always posting, you can't claim anything toxic about sugar because no dosage for toxicity has been determined or other such nonsense. In the meantime we know now that the high sugar consumption is wreaking havoc on populations around the world. The problem with toxic side effects is they will very widely for different people. There will never be numbers that are universally correct for everyone. So it comes down to caution or no caution. That is why such a statement is detrimental as it is throwing out any reasonable caution or concern.
They recognize this because too much sugar equals too many calories without adequate nutrition. For those of us who are active and use sugar as fuel or a moderate treat it's not an issue. I frankly get endless entertainment from overweight and sedentary people telling me how my diet is going to hurt me. My diet isn't created for you or them. It's created for an active individual and that is exactly the type of individual WHO is not addressing with this type of health information. Best of luck to you. I hope you can get it all dialed in. The people you're arguing with already have done so for quite a while.
Did you not read what he said about using additional sugar for fuel for workouts/training?
The point is that as a percentage of one's diet sugar can go up.
You said there would be no math
No math. Just logic. I hope.
Logic and mfp are directly opposed to one another
Some are too busy looking for a gotchas, rather than listening or reading, and then analyzing information and parsing language.0 -
I actually generally eat about 50-80 grams of sugar a day. About half of that is added and half is naturally occurring. I have to say, I do find it a bit surprising that several of us have similar intakes.
I don't regularly log on here, but I did this past Monday.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »I actually generally eat about 50-80 grams of sugar a day. About half of that is added and half is naturally occurring. I have to say, I do find it a bit surprising that several of us have similar intakes.
I don't regularly log on here, but I did this past Monday.
To be honest that doesn't surprise me. We are well into the weeds in this discussion. The point has obviously been missed by some2 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I actually generally eat about 50-80 grams of sugar a day. About half of that is added and half is naturally occurring. I have to say, I do find it a bit surprising that several of us have similar intakes.
I don't regularly log on here, but I did this past Monday.
To be honest that doesn't surprise me. We are well into the weeds in this discussion. The point has obviously been missed by some
I have said many times on here, whether you are talking about clean eaters vs team moderation, or some other debate that seems to have two clear sides... if you put two diaries side by side without knowing whose was whose, it is likely that you would not be able to label which camp the owners were in. People make so many assumptions and read past what others are saying... so much of this could be avoided. But hey, what fun would that be!7 -
WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I actually generally eat about 50-80 grams of sugar a day. About half of that is added and half is naturally occurring. I have to say, I do find it a bit surprising that several of us have similar intakes.
I don't regularly log on here, but I did this past Monday.
To be honest that doesn't surprise me. We are well into the weeds in this discussion. The point has obviously been missed by some
I have said many times on here, whether you are talking about clean eaters vs team moderation, or some other debate that seems to have two clear sides... if you put two diaries side by side without knowing whose was whose, it is likely that you would not be able to label which camp the owners were in. People make so many assumptions and read past what others are saying... so much of this could be avoided. But hey, what fun would that be!
It makes a difference when you're backpacking 20-30 miles a day and trying to decide if 900 calories of chocolate covered almonds is okay. It also helps understand why the goo and gells people often use. It gives people an understanding that there is base line nutrition and then there is consuming enough calories for fuel.1 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".
No that isn't it. The root of this is many don't realize how little sugar is really too much sugar. While safe levels are still being determined, the WHO recommends no more than 6 teaspoons (~25 grams) of added sugar or sugar from beverages a day. On can 12 oz can of soda can contain 11 teaspoons of sugar and some juices are even higher than that. 4 oz of juice max is moderation.
http://who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
In the meantime there is a camp of people that are always posting, you can't claim anything toxic about sugar because no dosage for toxicity has been determined or other such nonsense. In the meantime we know now that the high sugar consumption is wreaking havoc on populations around the world. The problem with toxic side effects is they will very widely for different people. There will never be numbers that are universally correct for everyone. So it comes down to caution or no caution. That is why such a statement is detrimental as it is throwing out any reasonable caution or concern.
They recognize this because too much sugar equals too many calories without adequate nutrition. For those of us who are active and use sugar as fuel or a moderate treat it's not an issue. I frankly get endless entertainment from overweight and sedentary people telling me how my diet is going to hurt me. My diet isn't created for you or them. It's created for an active individual and that is exactly the type of individual WHO is not addressing with this type of health information. Best of luck to you. I hope you can get it all dialed in. The people you're arguing with already have done so for quite a while.
As far as glucose goes I understand your position. That is generally 1/2 of sugar. The concern over the fructose in sugar as we don't directly metabolism it and studies are supporting that it doesn't take too much fructose for the liver to start producing LDL from it. I'm not sure can believe that what is bad for a sedentary person wouldn't also be bad for you. The WHO is actually a world wide organization, most of the world is far more active that say US, UK or AUS.
The calorie argument isn't as strong since sugar is only 4 kc/gram. Clearly many consume way over 100 grams / day and that is a lot of calories but that is also an awful lot of added sugar.
I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger.0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".
No that isn't it. The root of this is many don't realize how little sugar is really too much sugar. While safe levels are still being determined, the WHO recommends no more than 6 teaspoons (~25 grams) of added sugar or sugar from beverages a day. On can 12 oz can of soda can contain 11 teaspoons of sugar and some juices are even higher than that. 4 oz of juice max is moderation.
http://who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
In the meantime there is a camp of people that are always posting, you can't claim anything toxic about sugar because no dosage for toxicity has been determined or other such nonsense. In the meantime we know now that the high sugar consumption is wreaking havoc on populations around the world. The problem with toxic side effects is they will very widely for different people. There will never be numbers that are universally correct for everyone. So it comes down to caution or no caution. That is why such a statement is detrimental as it is throwing out any reasonable caution or concern.
They recognize this because too much sugar equals too many calories without adequate nutrition. For those of us who are active and use sugar as fuel or a moderate treat it's not an issue. I frankly get endless entertainment from overweight and sedentary people telling me how my diet is going to hurt me. My diet isn't created for you or them. It's created for an active individual and that is exactly the type of individual WHO is not addressing with this type of health information. Best of luck to you. I hope you can get it all dialed in. The people you're arguing with already have done so for quite a while.
As far as glucose goes I understand your position. That is generally 1/2 of sugar. The concern over the fructose in sugar as we don't directly metabolism it and studies are supporting that it doesn't take too much fructose for the liver to start producing LDL from it. I'm not sure can believe that what is bad for a sedentary person wouldn't also be bad for you. The WHO is actually a world wide organization, most of the world is far more active that say US, UK or AUS.
The calorie argument isn't as strong since sugar is only 4 kc/gram. Clearly many consume way over 100 grams / day and that is a lot of calories but that is also an awful lot of added sugar.
I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger.
Who is eating 100g added sugar a day?2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
no sure where you get "you would have to drink it by the gallon" and turn it into "you have should drink it by the gallon"..
comprehension fail..
I don't even think he comprehended the article he posted.
From the article...
"The findings are likely applicable in the United States, but more studies are needed, Larsson said. Because the study focused on Swedish men between the ages of 45 and 79, the results do not necessarily apply to younger age groups, women or certain ethnic groups."
Besides the fact the the study was observational, "hey how many sweetened beverages do you drink per week?" Which the men probably under-reported, because that is typically people do, under-report consumption and over-report activity. So, probably takes more then one 12oz can of soda a day to be correlated with heart disease.
Nonsense...
Not to mention this
"Larsson said the researchers' definition of sweetened drinks "only included soft drinks/soda and these can either be sweetened with sugar or with artificial sweetener." Tea, coffee and fruit juice were excluded from the study."
So I'm good with Lipton's prebottles garbage, because it's "tea". Got it.
Ehh, screw that. Coke Zero won't make me fat, no matter how much I drink.
Coke Zero is kind of strange. It tastes exactly the same everywhere I've had it, that isn't true for diet Coke or diet Pepsi. I rarely drink those in Japan, but my wife likes Coke Zero.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
Firstly this.
Secondly, I didn't even say that, someone else did.
Then I'm sorry, I thought you wrote that.0 -
I would say an awful lot of people. About 25% of all adult men in the U.S. are doing that on a consistent basis (25+ tsp a day). That also includes 10% of all adult women in the U.S.sunnybeaches105 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".
No that isn't it. The root of this is many don't realize how little sugar is really too much sugar. While safe levels are still being determined, the WHO recommends no more than 6 teaspoons (~25 grams) of added sugar or sugar from beverages a day. On can 12 oz can of soda can contain 11 teaspoons of sugar and some juices are even higher than that. 4 oz of juice max is moderation.
http://who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
In the meantime there is a camp of people that are always posting, you can't claim anything toxic about sugar because no dosage for toxicity has been determined or other such nonsense. In the meantime we know now that the high sugar consumption is wreaking havoc on populations around the world. The problem with toxic side effects is they will very widely for different people. There will never be numbers that are universally correct for everyone. So it comes down to caution or no caution. That is why such a statement is detrimental as it is throwing out any reasonable caution or concern.
They recognize this because too much sugar equals too many calories without adequate nutrition. For those of us who are active and use sugar as fuel or a moderate treat it's not an issue. I frankly get endless entertainment from overweight and sedentary people telling me how my diet is going to hurt me. My diet isn't created for you or them. It's created for an active individual and that is exactly the type of individual WHO is not addressing with this type of health information. Best of luck to you. I hope you can get it all dialed in. The people you're arguing with already have done so for quite a while.
As far as glucose goes I understand your position. That is generally 1/2 of sugar. The concern over the fructose in sugar as we don't directly metabolism it and studies are supporting that it doesn't take too much fructose for the liver to start producing LDL from it. I'm not sure can believe that what is bad for a sedentary person wouldn't also be bad for you. The WHO is actually a world wide organization, most of the world is far more active that say US, UK or AUS.
The calorie argument isn't as strong since sugar is only 4 kc/gram. Clearly many consume way over 100 grams / day and that is a lot of calories but that is also an awful lot of added sugar.
I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger.
Who is eating 100g added sugar a day?
That being said, I realize though that's not very representative of those in this discussion.
0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
no sure where you get "you would have to drink it by the gallon" and turn it into "you have should drink it by the gallon"..
comprehension fail..
I don't even think he comprehended the article he posted.
From the article...
"The findings are likely applicable in the United States, but more studies are needed, Larsson said. Because the study focused on Swedish men between the ages of 45 and 79, the results do not necessarily apply to younger age groups, women or certain ethnic groups."
Besides the fact the the study was observational, "hey how many sweetened beverages do you drink per week?" Which the men probably under-reported, because that is typically people do, under-report consumption and over-report activity. So, probably takes more then one 12oz can of soda a day to be correlated with heart disease.
Nonsense...
Not to mention this
"Larsson said the researchers' definition of sweetened drinks "only included soft drinks/soda and these can either be sweetened with sugar or with artificial sweetener." Tea, coffee and fruit juice were excluded from the study."
So I'm good with Lipton's prebottles garbage, because it's "tea". Got it.
Ehh, screw that. Coke Zero won't make me fat, no matter how much I drink.
Coke Zero is kind of strange. It tastes exactly the same everywhere I've had it, that isn't true for diet Coke or diet Pepsi. I rarely drink those in Japan, but my wife likes Coke Zero.
Krispy Kreme is the same in Japan as is Godiva. You should try Denny's though. Your point?0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".
No that isn't it. The root of this is many don't realize how little sugar is really too much sugar. While safe levels are still being determined, the WHO recommends no more than 6 teaspoons (~25 grams) of added sugar or sugar from beverages a day. On can 12 oz can of soda can contain 11 teaspoons of sugar and some juices are even higher than that. 4 oz of juice max is moderation.
http://who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
In the meantime there is a camp of people that are always posting, you can't claim anything toxic about sugar because no dosage for toxicity has been determined or other such nonsense. In the meantime we know now that the high sugar consumption is wreaking havoc on populations around the world. The problem with toxic side effects is they will very widely for different people. There will never be numbers that are universally correct for everyone. So it comes down to caution or no caution. That is why such a statement is detrimental as it is throwing out any reasonable caution or concern.
They recognize this because too much sugar equals too many calories without adequate nutrition. For those of us who are active and use sugar as fuel or a moderate treat it's not an issue. I frankly get endless entertainment from overweight and sedentary people telling me how my diet is going to hurt me. My diet isn't created for you or them. It's created for an active individual and that is exactly the type of individual WHO is not addressing with this type of health information. Best of luck to you. I hope you can get it all dialed in. The people you're arguing with already have done so for quite a while.
As far as glucose goes I understand your position. That is generally 1/2 of sugar. The concern over the fructose in sugar as we don't directly metabolism it and studies are supporting that it doesn't take too much fructose for the liver to start producing LDL from it. I'm not sure can believe that what is bad for a sedentary person wouldn't also be bad for you. The WHO is actually a world wide organization, most of the world is far more active that say US, UK or AUS.
The calorie argument isn't as strong since sugar is only 4 kc/gram. Clearly many consume way over 100 grams / day and that is a lot of calories but that is also an awful lot of added sugar.
I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger.
Self control0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
no sure where you get "you would have to drink it by the gallon" and turn it into "you have should drink it by the gallon"..
comprehension fail..
I don't even think he comprehended the article he posted.
From the article...
"The findings are likely applicable in the United States, but more studies are needed, Larsson said. Because the study focused on Swedish men between the ages of 45 and 79, the results do not necessarily apply to younger age groups, women or certain ethnic groups."
Besides the fact the the study was observational, "hey how many sweetened beverages do you drink per week?" Which the men probably under-reported, because that is typically people do, under-report consumption and over-report activity. So, probably takes more then one 12oz can of soda a day to be correlated with heart disease.
Nonsense...
Not to mention this
"Larsson said the researchers' definition of sweetened drinks "only included soft drinks/soda and these can either be sweetened with sugar or with artificial sweetener." Tea, coffee and fruit juice were excluded from the study."
So I'm good with Lipton's prebottles garbage, because it's "tea". Got it.
Ehh, screw that. Coke Zero won't make me fat, no matter how much I drink.
Coke Zero is kind of strange. It tastes exactly the same everywhere I've had it, that isn't true for diet Coke or diet Pepsi. I rarely drink those in Japan, but my wife likes Coke Zero.
Krispy Kreme is the same in Japan as is Godiva. You should try Denny's though. Your point?
Never tried Krispy Kreme in Japan, not really interested in that and I'm sure Godiva uses real sugar. Denny's is completely different. Why do you think everything has to have a point?0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
no sure where you get "you would have to drink it by the gallon" and turn it into "you have should drink it by the gallon"..
comprehension fail..
I don't even think he comprehended the article he posted.
From the article...
"The findings are likely applicable in the United States, but more studies are needed, Larsson said. Because the study focused on Swedish men between the ages of 45 and 79, the results do not necessarily apply to younger age groups, women or certain ethnic groups."
Besides the fact the the study was observational, "hey how many sweetened beverages do you drink per week?" Which the men probably under-reported, because that is typically people do, under-report consumption and over-report activity. So, probably takes more then one 12oz can of soda a day to be correlated with heart disease.
Nonsense...
Not to mention this
"Larsson said the researchers' definition of sweetened drinks "only included soft drinks/soda and these can either be sweetened with sugar or with artificial sweetener." Tea, coffee and fruit juice were excluded from the study."
So I'm good with Lipton's prebottles garbage, because it's "tea". Got it.
Ehh, screw that. Coke Zero won't make me fat, no matter how much I drink.
Coke Zero is kind of strange. It tastes exactly the same everywhere I've had it, that isn't true for diet Coke or diet Pepsi. I rarely drink those in Japan, but my wife likes Coke Zero.
Krispy Kreme is the same in Japan as is Godiva. You should try Denny's though. Your point?
Never tried Krispy Kreme in Japan, not really interested in that and I'm sure Godiva uses real sugar. Denny's is completely different. Why do you think everything has to have a point?
That actually clarifies quite a bit. Thank you6 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
no sure where you get "you would have to drink it by the gallon" and turn it into "you have should drink it by the gallon"..
comprehension fail..
I don't even think he comprehended the article he posted.
From the article...
"The findings are likely applicable in the United States, but more studies are needed, Larsson said. Because the study focused on Swedish men between the ages of 45 and 79, the results do not necessarily apply to younger age groups, women or certain ethnic groups."
Besides the fact the the study was observational, "hey how many sweetened beverages do you drink per week?" Which the men probably under-reported, because that is typically people do, under-report consumption and over-report activity. So, probably takes more then one 12oz can of soda a day to be correlated with heart disease.
Nonsense...
Not to mention this
"Larsson said the researchers' definition of sweetened drinks "only included soft drinks/soda and these can either be sweetened with sugar or with artificial sweetener." Tea, coffee and fruit juice were excluded from the study."
So I'm good with Lipton's prebottles garbage, because it's "tea". Got it.
Ehh, screw that. Coke Zero won't make me fat, no matter how much I drink.
Coke Zero is kind of strange. It tastes exactly the same everywhere I've had it, that isn't true for diet Coke or diet Pepsi. I rarely drink those in Japan, but my wife likes Coke Zero.
I like to think of it as soda manufacturers finally getting a 0 cal drink right (the Vanilla Zero is even better), so I will just wildly speculate and assume that Coke has tighter quality control over it's dispersion from syrup vendors. I like to imagine a man in a Coke hat smacking people with a yardstick, if they try to dial the calibration up or down to save costs.0
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