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Hot topics! Sugar in fruit
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amusedmonkey wrote: »People are arguing in favor of juice as a good everyday choice for kids? I think thats's a bad idea. Kids don't eat that many calories. An active 8 year old might need 1400-1500kcal. Tops. A cup of juice would be one tenth of a child's calories for the day, with over 30g of carbs, about 20g of which is sugar. That's a lot of calories to devote to something without much of a nutritional punch.
Plus sugary drink cosumption is linked to health problems like insulin resistance down the road. I'd rather they eat the entire 3-4 apples rather than drink the sugars of those apples as a cup of juice. And yes, I doubt they would eat 3 or 4 apples in a day. Perhaps that is the body's way of saying it does need or want 3 or 4 apples every day. Maybe on a rare day they would eat it so I'll keep juice consumption as rare too.
We're watching carbs for kids now? In the context of a balanced diet 150 calories of juice is nothing (which is not nutritionally devoid mind you). You eat low carb, you know how to cram all the nutrition you need in less than half of the calories you consume (the rest of which fat). It doesn't take a lot to have a nutritious diet. And the insulin resistance "link" is circumstantial at best. Many less developed communities consume a lot of sugar in fruit and honey form with no insulin resistance problems. Want kids healthy? Encourage physical activity instead of restricting their macros.
Juice is about the same as soda, so yes. I limit that. No, I do not want them having a cup of juice or soda for breakfast. I'll limit empty sugar calories (carbs) in my kids' diet. If you want to consider one tenth of your children's diet as nothing, then fine. I don't want every tenth swallow of my kids' diet to be juice or soda.
I said if my kids want to eat the equivalent fruit that a glass of juice will hold, I am for that. A cup of apple juice is 3-4 apples. If my kids want that they have 3-4 apples. I say go for it. I doubt they would ask for extra like they would for juice. It's a sugar water. They would eat sugar cubes if I let them. I don't see the need for that. That's why I restrict it to a treat. A rare thing.
My 13 year old had a canteloupe and bacon for breakfast today. My younger two had pancakes (made with coconut flour, flax meal, chia, hemp hearts, protein powder, mashed banana, coconut oil, lots of eggs and cream) and syrup. I make a low carb pancake because they like to add maple syrup to their pancakes. And yes, I limit the syrup they put on pancakes too. We keep it to 1 Tbs. No need for a syrup puddle. Aren't I a big meanie?
I keep my kids gluten free too because celiac runs in the family. Do you see that as deprived or as me keeping my kids healthy and safe?
As their parent, I make the choices concerning the foods my kids have access to. I want the vast majority of those foods to be about better health. I think keeping carbs lower, at least moderate, is a healthy choice. I try to limit their processed, sugary, grain based carbs. They can eat as much fruit and veggies as they desire.
why is the sugar in fruit ok for your kids but not the juice fruit that comes from sugar? That is pretty ridiculous claim, but not surprising.
I grew up drinking jolt, coke, juice, etc, and came out just fine, so not sure why we are no fear mongering sugar to kids with no medical condition.
this is ridiculousness to the nth degree...
Holy Flashback, Batman!
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Avocado is a fruit and I think there's more fat in those than sugar. Could be wrong. Too lazy to check.0
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WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?11 -
WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
I'm still failing to see how saying that you would have to drink a gallon of juice to overload the liver is a recommendation for wanton consumption of juice.
Additionally, no one is saying to avoid whole fruit. My kids eat a lot of whole fruit. They also enjoy a juice box on occasion, maybe 2-3 times a week. They don't drink it alone, it isn't a substitute for a meal or a snack, they eat other foods, including whole fruit, far more often.
This is the kind of context and dosage that is relevant to these conversations.
I'm perplexed when people interpret statements like "juice is ok in moderation" as "give your kids as much juice as they want and don't encourage them to eat any whole fruit". Is that really what you thought people were saying, or are you intentionally misrepresenting their statements?
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WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".
He is too far dug in on his position to change his opinion. You see it all the time...
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WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
no sure where you get "you would have to drink it by the gallon" and turn it into "you have should drink it by the gallon"..
comprehension fail..
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WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
no sure where you get "you would have to drink it by the gallon" and turn it into "you have should drink it by the gallon"..
comprehension fail..
I don't even think he comprehended the article he posted.
From the article...
"The findings are likely applicable in the United States, but more studies are needed, Larsson said. Because the study focused on Swedish men between the ages of 45 and 79, the results do not necessarily apply to younger age groups, women or certain ethnic groups."
Besides the fact the the study was observational, "hey how many sweetened beverages do you drink per week?" Which the men probably under-reported, because that is typically people do, under-report consumption and over-report activity. So, probably takes more then one 12oz can of soda a day to be correlated with heart disease.
Nonsense...2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
no sure where you get "you would have to drink it by the gallon" and turn it into "you have should drink it by the gallon"..
comprehension fail..
I don't even think he comprehended the article he posted.
From the article...
"The findings are likely applicable in the United States, but more studies are needed, Larsson said. Because the study focused on Swedish men between the ages of 45 and 79, the results do not necessarily apply to younger age groups, women or certain ethnic groups."
Besides the fact the the study was observational, "hey how many sweetened beverages do you drink per week?" Which the men probably under-reported, because that is typically people do, under-report consumption and over-report activity. So, probably takes more then one 12oz can of soda a day to be correlated with heart disease.
Nonsense...
And not at all relevant to the discussion about the impact of children drinking juice...1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".
No that isn't it. The root of this is many don't realize how little sugar is really too much sugar. While safe levels are still being determined, the WHO recommends no more than 6 teaspoons (~25 grams) of added sugar or sugar from beverages a day. On can 12 oz can of soda can contain 11 teaspoons of sugar and some juices are even higher than that. 4 oz of juice max is moderation.
http://who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
In the meantime there is a camp of people that are always posting, you can't claim anything toxic about sugar because no dosage for toxicity has been determined or other such nonsense. In the meantime we know now that the high sugar consumption is wreaking havoc on populations around the world. The problem with toxic side effects is they will very widely for different people. There will never be numbers that are universally correct for everyone. So it comes down to caution or no caution. That is why such a statement is detrimental as it is throwing out any reasonable caution or concern.0 -
You always leave out the % recommendation. 10% or 5% as a conditional recommendation which really doesn't apply to active people in my opinion who might use added sugar for fuel.4
-
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".
No that isn't it. The root of this is many don't realize how little sugar is really too much sugar. While safe levels are still being determined, the WHO recommends no more than 6 teaspoons (~25 grams) of added sugar or sugar from beverages a day. On can 12 oz can of soda can contain 11 teaspoons of sugar and some juices are even higher than that. 4 oz of juice max is moderation.
http://who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
In the meantime there is a camp of people that are always posting, you can't claim anything toxic about sugar because no dosage for toxicity has been determined or other such nonsense. In the meantime we know now that the high sugar consumption is wreaking havoc on populations around the world. The problem with toxic side effects is they will very widely for different people. There will never be numbers that are universally correct for everyone. So it comes down to caution or no caution. That is why such a statement is detrimental as it is throwing out any reasonable caution or concern.
They recognize this because too much sugar equals too many calories without adequate nutrition. For those of us who are active and use sugar as fuel or a moderate treat it's not an issue. I frankly get endless entertainment from overweight and sedentary people telling me how my diet is going to hurt me. My diet isn't created for you or them. It's created for an active individual and that is exactly the type of individual WHO is not addressing with this type of health information. Best of luck to you. I hope you can get it all dialed in. The people you're arguing with already have done so for quite a while.13 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".
No that isn't it. The root of this is many don't realize how little sugar is really too much sugar. While safe levels are still being determined, the WHO recommends no more than 6 teaspoons (~25 grams) of added sugar or sugar from beverages a day. On can 12 oz can of soda can contain 11 teaspoons of sugar and some juices are even higher than that. 4 oz of juice max is moderation.
http://who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
In the meantime there is a camp of people that are always posting, you can't claim anything toxic about sugar because no dosage for toxicity has been determined or other such nonsense. In the meantime we know now that the high sugar consumption is wreaking havoc on populations around the world. The problem with toxic side effects is they will very widely for different people. There will never be numbers that are universally correct for everyone. So it comes down to caution or no caution. That is why such a statement is detrimental as it is throwing out any reasonable caution or concern.
The recommendation is actually for no more than 10% of total calories from added sugar with a caveat that additional benefits may be seen from reducing to 5% which is where the 25 g number comes in.
As has been pointed out many times as well, the reason for this is not because there is something inherently bad about sugar, but because the products with higher percentages of added sugars tend to increase total calories without offsetting additional nutritional benefits.
Also...Sugar is not toxic.
6 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
no sure where you get "you would have to drink it by the gallon" and turn it into "you have should drink it by the gallon"..
comprehension fail..
I don't even think he comprehended the article he posted.
From the article...
"The findings are likely applicable in the United States, but more studies are needed, Larsson said. Because the study focused on Swedish men between the ages of 45 and 79, the results do not necessarily apply to younger age groups, women or certain ethnic groups."
Besides the fact the the study was observational, "hey how many sweetened beverages do you drink per week?" Which the men probably under-reported, because that is typically people do, under-report consumption and over-report activity. So, probably takes more then one 12oz can of soda a day to be correlated with heart disease.
Nonsense...
And not at all relevant to the discussion about the impact of children drinking juice...
Correct. And as parents, we moderate their diets for them. Well, at least a responsible, well informed parent does...0 -
If you're active, then by default you'd be expending more energy than the typical person. So 10% of 2000 calories is about 13 tsp of sugar, but more like 20 tsp for 3000 calories. I don't see why the percentage should be thrown out the window for those expending more energy, as keeping to a percentage of total calories will automatically raise the upper limit.sunnybeaches105 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".
No that isn't it. The root of this is many don't realize how little sugar is really too much sugar. While safe levels are still being determined, the WHO recommends no more than 6 teaspoons (~25 grams) of added sugar or sugar from beverages a day. On can 12 oz can of soda can contain 11 teaspoons of sugar and some juices are even higher than that. 4 oz of juice max is moderation.
http://who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
In the meantime there is a camp of people that are always posting, you can't claim anything toxic about sugar because no dosage for toxicity has been determined or other such nonsense. In the meantime we know now that the high sugar consumption is wreaking havoc on populations around the world. The problem with toxic side effects is they will very widely for different people. There will never be numbers that are universally correct for everyone. So it comes down to caution or no caution. That is why such a statement is detrimental as it is throwing out any reasonable caution or concern.
They recognize this because too much sugar equals too many calories without adequate nutrition. For those of us who are active and use sugar as fuel or a moderate treat it's not an issue. I frankly get endless entertainment from overweight and sedentary people telling me how my diet is going to hurt me. My diet isn't created for you or them. It's created for an active individual and that is exactly the type of individual WHO is not addressing with this type of health information. Best of luck to you. I hope you can get it all dialed in. The people you're arguing with already have done so for quite a while.
0 -
-
ForecasterJason wrote: »
If you're active, then by default you'd be expending more energy than the typical person. So 10% of 2000 calories is about 13 tsp of sugar, but more like 20 tsp for 3000 calories. I don't see why the percentage should be thrown out the window for those expending more energy, as keeping to a percentage of total calories will automatically raise the upper limit.sunnybeaches105 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".
No that isn't it. The root of this is many don't realize how little sugar is really too much sugar. While safe levels are still being determined, the WHO recommends no more than 6 teaspoons (~25 grams) of added sugar or sugar from beverages a day. On can 12 oz can of soda can contain 11 teaspoons of sugar and some juices are even higher than that. 4 oz of juice max is moderation.
http://who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
In the meantime there is a camp of people that are always posting, you can't claim anything toxic about sugar because no dosage for toxicity has been determined or other such nonsense. In the meantime we know now that the high sugar consumption is wreaking havoc on populations around the world. The problem with toxic side effects is they will very widely for different people. There will never be numbers that are universally correct for everyone. So it comes down to caution or no caution. That is why such a statement is detrimental as it is throwing out any reasonable caution or concern.
They recognize this because too much sugar equals too many calories without adequate nutrition. For those of us who are active and use sugar as fuel or a moderate treat it's not an issue. I frankly get endless entertainment from overweight and sedentary people telling me how my diet is going to hurt me. My diet isn't created for you or them. It's created for an active individual and that is exactly the type of individual WHO is not addressing with this type of health information. Best of luck to you. I hope you can get it all dialed in. The people you're arguing with already have done so for quite a while.
The percentage is a shorthand based on a sedentary lifestyle. What matters is not the percentage, but making sure the person gets adequate nutrition without consuming excess calories. In some respects, this is quite similar to macro percentages in that it's convenient shorthand. When properly structured I can easily get all I need in terms of macros, micros, and fiber at about 1600-1700 calories (and I eat plenty of protein). I'm not arguing to eat massive amounts of sugar, but I easy fit in ice cream, donuts, and beer into my diet. If I'm backpacking then sugar becomes a pretty big part of my diet though. The important thing is looking at the diet and calorie expenditure together and the diet in its totality.2 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
If you're active, then by default you'd be expending more energy than the typical person. So 10% of 2000 calories is about 13 tsp of sugar, but more like 20 tsp for 3000 calories. I don't see why the percentage should be thrown out the window for those expending more energy, as keeping to a percentage of total calories will automatically raise the upper limit.sunnybeaches105 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".
No that isn't it. The root of this is many don't realize how little sugar is really too much sugar. While safe levels are still being determined, the WHO recommends no more than 6 teaspoons (~25 grams) of added sugar or sugar from beverages a day. On can 12 oz can of soda can contain 11 teaspoons of sugar and some juices are even higher than that. 4 oz of juice max is moderation.
http://who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
In the meantime there is a camp of people that are always posting, you can't claim anything toxic about sugar because no dosage for toxicity has been determined or other such nonsense. In the meantime we know now that the high sugar consumption is wreaking havoc on populations around the world. The problem with toxic side effects is they will very widely for different people. There will never be numbers that are universally correct for everyone. So it comes down to caution or no caution. That is why such a statement is detrimental as it is throwing out any reasonable caution or concern.
They recognize this because too much sugar equals too many calories without adequate nutrition. For those of us who are active and use sugar as fuel or a moderate treat it's not an issue. I frankly get endless entertainment from overweight and sedentary people telling me how my diet is going to hurt me. My diet isn't created for you or them. It's created for an active individual and that is exactly the type of individual WHO is not addressing with this type of health information. Best of luck to you. I hope you can get it all dialed in. The people you're arguing with already have done so for quite a while.
Did you not read what he said about using additional sugar for fuel for workouts/training?0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
If you're active, then by default you'd be expending more energy than the typical person. So 10% of 2000 calories is about 13 tsp of sugar, but more like 20 tsp for 3000 calories. I don't see why the percentage should be thrown out the window for those expending more energy, as keeping to a percentage of total calories will automatically raise the upper limit.sunnybeaches105 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".
No that isn't it. The root of this is many don't realize how little sugar is really too much sugar. While safe levels are still being determined, the WHO recommends no more than 6 teaspoons (~25 grams) of added sugar or sugar from beverages a day. On can 12 oz can of soda can contain 11 teaspoons of sugar and some juices are even higher than that. 4 oz of juice max is moderation.
http://who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
In the meantime there is a camp of people that are always posting, you can't claim anything toxic about sugar because no dosage for toxicity has been determined or other such nonsense. In the meantime we know now that the high sugar consumption is wreaking havoc on populations around the world. The problem with toxic side effects is they will very widely for different people. There will never be numbers that are universally correct for everyone. So it comes down to caution or no caution. That is why such a statement is detrimental as it is throwing out any reasonable caution or concern.
They recognize this because too much sugar equals too many calories without adequate nutrition. For those of us who are active and use sugar as fuel or a moderate treat it's not an issue. I frankly get endless entertainment from overweight and sedentary people telling me how my diet is going to hurt me. My diet isn't created for you or them. It's created for an active individual and that is exactly the type of individual WHO is not addressing with this type of health information. Best of luck to you. I hope you can get it all dialed in. The people you're arguing with already have done so for quite a while.
The percentage is a shorthand based on a sedentary lifestyle. What matters is not the percentage, but making sure the person gets adequate nutrition without consuming excess calories. In some respects, this is quite similar to macro percentages in that it's convenient shorthand. When properly structured I can easily get all I need in terms of macros, micros, and fiber at about 1600-1700 calories (and I eat plenty of protein). I'm not arguing to eat massive amounts of sugar, but I easy fit in ice cream, donuts, and beer into my diet. If I'm backpacking then sugar becomes a pretty big part of my diet though. The important thing is looking at the diet and calorie expenditure together and the diet in its totality.
Related to this, which I agree with, is not overcomplicating it. If one is tracking, sure, look at percentage if you want. But for the average person focusing on eating adequate nutrients and an overall healthful diet is going to be enough to crowd out excessive sugar. Then, if you have really active days and add some extra sugar or other quick carbs in for fuel, you know there's no need to worry that you are doing so at the expense of nutrients. It's like when I have pizza for dinner. I usually have it with lots of vegetables on it and salad, so I don't worry about the effect on micronutrients, but because I'm not a big fan of meat on pizza (and the typical meat on pizza anyway is often pretty low protein), I know that I will be getting more carbs and fat and less protein at dinner than usual. So I naturally adjust and eat somewhat lower carb/fat, higher protein at earlier meals. I don't have to worry about hitting specific numbers or percentages to do this, but just adjust somewhat.
To me, worrying that if you ever go over some particular number of sugar grams (when none of the reasoning says that sugar is bad in itself) that you will no longer have a healthful diet, period, is just weird. Sure, we shouldn't eat excessive sugar (due to calories and nutrient content overall), and if one has a sensible diet that's not hard to avoid.0 -
Yeah. I mean I understand that, I was just thinking if one is doing more intense workouts they would automatically be able to fit more sugar in their diet as it is due to increased energy expenditure.ForecasterJason wrote: »
If you're active, then by default you'd be expending more energy than the typical person. So 10% of 2000 calories is about 13 tsp of sugar, but more like 20 tsp for 3000 calories. I don't see why the percentage should be thrown out the window for those expending more energy, as keeping to a percentage of total calories will automatically raise the upper limit.sunnybeaches105 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't get the issue with fruit juices anyway outside of the "drinking calories" argument. The sugar in a glass of orange juice is the same sugar that is in the two oranges it was made from. Why would eating 2 oranges be better than drinking them if in a context of a balanced diet you are getting plenty of fiber anyway?
No it isn't the same. Fruit provides sugar and fiber at the same time. If the fiber is in your colon, it doesn't help with the juice hitting the stomach.
Why do you think it's important to get them at the same time?
The fiber makes a gummy mess in your stomach and will drag a good part of the sugar with it into the intestines. That slows the rate of absorption down and gives the liver more time to deal with the fructose. Some of the fructose will even be drug into the large intestine where bacteria will eat it. Kids also enjoy the farts caused by that.
The liver is pretty amazing and pretty fast, but overloading it may be a cause of metabolic issues. At least it has been shown that metabolic disease symptoms can be triggered in as little as two weeks of sweeten beverage consumption. So probably anything that slows the process down is good. Fiber is like a mechanical diet aid.
And you keep ignoring dosage and context.
You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".
Not to mention the fact that fiber is not needed to "drag the sugar into the intestines" since sugar isn't absorbed through the stomach in the first place. It, like all carbohydrates, are absorbed through the intestines.
Gallon? Maybe if it is distilled so only water is left. Seems like you are the one ignoring dosage. No clue what you mean by context. http://www.sugarscience.org/sugar-sweetened-beverages/#.V4cXDI9OKUk
You might want to start looking at real sources, not alarmist websites. It takes a lot more than a glass of juice to overload the liver.Speed matters.
Maybe if you are diabetic. For others, it really doesn't.
Context.
You context doesn't mean anything. There are now ample studies with sweeten beverages that show modest consumption of them causes metabolic disease symptoms in even a two week period. A theory is too much fructose in the liver causes it to be converted to LDL which leads to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It seems that too much isn't much at all if a 12 oz can of soda a day is too much. It is much less of an issue with the glucose because the liver can convert most surplus glucose into glycogen and even store it.
Here is another article on heart disease and sweeten beverages.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/soda-heart-failure-study/index.html
You know an article is super scientific if it starts with the words "Guys, listen up:".
Just figured it was something you could digest. You don't seem very interested detailed facts.
Seriously pushing for wanton consumption of sugar isn't even something that Coke or Pepsi do anymore. The handwriting is on the wall and more studies are zeroing in on the issues all the time.
saying it is OK to consume sugar moderately along with a diet that hits micros and macros does not equal pushing wanton sugar consumption.
Drinking juice by the gallon isn't consuming sugar moderately.
Who is advocating drinking a gallon of juice, for either adults or children?
stevencloser claimed 'You would have to drink juice by the gallon to "overload the liver".'
One of the random statements not backed up by anything. There are ample studies that show even 12 oz of soda a day has adverse impact on the liver in as little as two weeks. There isn't much difference between juice or soda when it comes to sugar.
I really don't see a lot of problems with eating whole fruit. Takes a lot of eating to get the same sugar that is one glass of juice. Natural limit.
You really think saying, "you would have to drink juice by the gallon" means advocating drinking juice by the gallon?
I can't decide if people just are so caught up in preparing for their next counter statement that they just don't bother to try to understand what another poster is saying, or if they willfully misrepresent a position, or if they truly believe that is what the poster meant when he said "you would have to drink juice by the gallon".
No that isn't it. The root of this is many don't realize how little sugar is really too much sugar. While safe levels are still being determined, the WHO recommends no more than 6 teaspoons (~25 grams) of added sugar or sugar from beverages a day. On can 12 oz can of soda can contain 11 teaspoons of sugar and some juices are even higher than that. 4 oz of juice max is moderation.
http://who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
In the meantime there is a camp of people that are always posting, you can't claim anything toxic about sugar because no dosage for toxicity has been determined or other such nonsense. In the meantime we know now that the high sugar consumption is wreaking havoc on populations around the world. The problem with toxic side effects is they will very widely for different people. There will never be numbers that are universally correct for everyone. So it comes down to caution or no caution. That is why such a statement is detrimental as it is throwing out any reasonable caution or concern.
They recognize this because too much sugar equals too many calories without adequate nutrition. For those of us who are active and use sugar as fuel or a moderate treat it's not an issue. I frankly get endless entertainment from overweight and sedentary people telling me how my diet is going to hurt me. My diet isn't created for you or them. It's created for an active individual and that is exactly the type of individual WHO is not addressing with this type of health information. Best of luck to you. I hope you can get it all dialed in. The people you're arguing with already have done so for quite a while.
Did you not read what he said about using additional sugar for fuel for workouts/training?
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