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Hot topics! Sugar in fruit
Replies
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Another example of someone who actually trains using added sugars. Okay, an elite olympic swimmer who uses chocolate milk. There was a comparison done on chocolate milk a while back and it isn't a bad recovery drink. I'll try to find the study. The point here is simply that added sugars have their place.
https://swimswam.com/qa-jessica-hardy-im-preparing-worlds-biggest-stage/
I never said added sugars couldn't be used or that they would impact others the same as they are impacting me. However most of us aren't training hard for five or six hours a day either.
That's right. You're completely unique and don't experience things the same way as other individuals who have been in your shoes.
Very doubtful. Browsing shows others making the similar claims about the extra sugar driving hunger.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/how-carbs-can-trigger-food-cravings/?_r=0
http://www.webmd.com/diet/20121231/fructose-hunger
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/14/fructose-spurs-overeating.aspx
https://authoritynutrition.com/4-ways-sugar-makes-you-fat/
http://naturalappetitesuppressants.org/foodthatcauseshunger/
...
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Another example of someone who actually trains using added sugars. Okay, an elite olympic swimmer who uses chocolate milk. There was a comparison done on chocolate milk a while back and it isn't a bad recovery drink. I'll try to find the study. The point here is simply that added sugars have their place.
https://swimswam.com/qa-jessica-hardy-im-preparing-worlds-biggest-stage/
I never said added sugars couldn't be used or that they would impact others the same as they are impacting me. However most of us aren't training hard for five or six hours a day either.
That's right. You're completely unique and don't experience things the same way as other individuals who have been in your shoes.
Very doubtful. Browsing shows others making the similar claims about the extra sugar driving hunger.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/how-carbs-can-trigger-food-cravings/?_r=0
http://www.webmd.com/diet/20121231/fructose-hunger
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/14/fructose-spurs-overeating.aspx
https://authoritynutrition.com/4-ways-sugar-makes-you-fat/
Thank you for the Mercola reference. You're falling for a quack.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/08/03/15-years-of-promoting-quackery/
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/joe-mercola-quackery-pays/
Directly from the title of the NY Times blog: "How Carbs Can Trigger Food Cravings." No one here (from what I see) is arguing against you having cravings (and that is what this discusses). You're describing those cravings as "extreme hunger" and in other similar ways, and that is what we are taking issue with. There is a difference and you'd be wise to start paying more attention to this difference. And again, in terms of GI, you may want to read the those posts by others above regarding ice cream.
Directly from the WebMD article: "So what does the study mean for health-conscious eaters?
That’s harder to say, says Jonathan Purnell, MD, an endocrinologist at Oregon Health & Science University in Portland. Purnell wrote an editorial on the study but was not involved in the research.
“This study didn’t prove that fructose causes weight gain,” Purnell says. “It doesn’t reflect real-world conditions.”"
Sugar toxicity and false assertions regarding fructose are handled briefly here with references: http://evolvinghealthscience.blogspot.com/2012/04/no-dr-gupta-hummingbird-fuel-is-not.html
You may want to spend time reading through the above and the referenes. I know you won't but it's helpful to follow researchers who are focused on helping atheletes as opposed to researchers focused on scaring the general public. It also helps if the research hasn't been discredited.7 -
I never claimed that sugar made me suddenly hungry. Saying things like that is creating misinformation.
No you did not, here is what you said about sugar and hunger...
"I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger."
"I assure you many have to deal with severe hunger even with modest calorie deficits. It sounds like you don't have that issues and that is great. What I'm not so sure about is if cutting sugar would help others with hunger as much as it helped me."
"By meal time I was experience extreme levels of hunger."
"I found all of that out later when I was trying to figure out why I no longer had the crushing hunger."
The type of hunger you are describing is the type of hunger people who are starving experience...
Stop trying to twist things into something they are not. I used to have extreme hunger that would eventually force me to eat more or really suffer until I did eat. I never said I would be suddenly hungry or any other nonsense. If fact after eating I was completely full, it just didn't last very long and when I was hungry is was very a very strong hunger. When I cut the deserts completely and the hunger was much slower in coming and wasn't as strong when it did. I further cut back on added sugars and now I'm only feeling modest hunger if I haven't eaten for 4 or 5 hours. A vast improvement.
All I've done is cut food and sugar and now I have very manageable, I would say normal hunger. The food I cut was ice cream deserts and also nuts but only because I no longer feel the need to snack. Removing more sugar was as easy as not adding any sugar. Now I'm only getting about 5g to 10g a day of added sugars. At this point I haven't removed or added any natural sugars.
Now I rarely feel completely full, but I also don't have the maddening hunger. No doubt in my mind, the extra sugar in my diet was causing me to feel too much hunger. I'm not claiming it would work for other, but it is working for me.
From what I read, people that are starving typically don't feel that much hunger at some point. That is also a hallmark of ketosis based diets, people don't have to count calories because they don't eat as much due to lack of hunger.
I'm sorry that the facts of my experience don't sit well with you, however that is your problem not mine.
I've already told you, you do not have facts, you have data that you are miss-interpreting. So in that sense, the problem actually is yours...3 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »
...3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
Now you are moving goal posts.
Actually you have been moving the goal posts even if you don't realize it. I removed 400 to 500 kc from my diet when I started my deficit. While some of that was nuts I no longer snacked on, most of it, 300 kc / day was from my ice cream desert. That isn't a 1/2 cup serving and it can't be compared to an apple. If my desert had been fruit I might not have had the issue with sugar. I would have been hard pressed to eat three large apples a day, not to mention that would be pretty expensive in Japan. After removing the desert I only had about 20 grams / day of added sugars (table, HFCS, etc ...). Now I'm dow to 5g to 10g per day. (Not counting natural sugars). That is actually a pretty comfortable level as I can have some sauces and I don't miss the extra sugar.
@dykask -
I wasn't talking about your diet, your hunger or anything else about you. As I stated twice already, I was responding to your claim that "Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food." which is false.
When I gave an example, you changed the argument to portion sizes. Now you are changing the argument even further.4 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...0 -
Could the added sugar in ice cream be spurring on @dykask appetite, forget about the fat and anything else it contains. Ice cream does contain sugar, so omitting this could help control his appetite. I don't find this so hard or confusing to understand..2
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Christine_72 wrote: »Could the added sugar in ice cream be spurring on @dykask appetite, forget about the fat and anything it contains. Ice cream does contain sugar, so omitting this could help control his appetite. I don't find this so hard or confusing to understand..
The confusion is that he says he eliminated sugar and doesn't have raging hunger. Ice cream is more than sugar. The other foods he eliminated I can't say because he hasn't stated exactly what they are. IIRC, salad dressing was one and there's more than sugar in that.
When someone says they stopped eating ice cream because sugar was making them hungry, they can't know that for sure because ice cream is more than just sugar. Unless one tests by eating pure sugar to see if they get raging hunger, they don't know it's just the sugar they are reacting to.1 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Another example of someone who actually trains using added sugars. Okay, an elite olympic swimmer who uses chocolate milk. There was a comparison done on chocolate milk a while back and it isn't a bad recovery drink. I'll try to find the study. The point here is simply that added sugars have their place.
https://swimswam.com/qa-jessica-hardy-im-preparing-worlds-biggest-stage/
I never said added sugars couldn't be used or that they would impact others the same as they are impacting me. However most of us aren't training hard for five or six hours a day either.
That's right. You're completely unique and don't experience things the same way as other individuals who have been in your shoes.
Very doubtful. Browsing shows others making the similar claims about the extra sugar driving hunger.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/how-carbs-can-trigger-food-cravings/?_r=0
http://www.webmd.com/diet/20121231/fructose-hunger
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/14/fructose-spurs-overeating.aspx
https://authoritynutrition.com/4-ways-sugar-makes-you-fat/
Thank you for the Mercola reference. You're falling for a quack.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/08/03/15-years-of-promoting-quackery/
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/joe-mercola-quackery-pays/
Directly from the title of the NY Times blog: "How Carbs Can Trigger Food Cravings." No one here (from what I see) is arguing against you having cravings (and that is what this discusses). You're describing those cravings as "extreme hunger" and in other similar ways, and that is what we are taking issue with. There is a difference and you'd be wise to start paying more attention to this difference. And again, in terms of GI, you may want to read the those posts by others above regarding ice cream.
Directly from the WebMD article: "So what does the study mean for health-conscious eaters?
That’s harder to say, says Jonathan Purnell, MD, an endocrinologist at Oregon Health & Science University in Portland. Purnell wrote an editorial on the study but was not involved in the research.
“This study didn’t prove that fructose causes weight gain,” Purnell says. “It doesn’t reflect real-world conditions.”"
Sugar toxicity and false assertions regarding fructose are handled briefly here with references: http://evolvinghealthscience.blogspot.com/2012/04/no-dr-gupta-hummingbird-fuel-is-not.html
You may want to spend time reading through the above and the referenes. I know you won't but it's helpful to follow researchers who are focused on helping atheletes as opposed to researchers focused on scaring the general public. It also helps if the research hasn't been discredited.
I'm not following anyone. I clearly stated browsing the web shows plenty of others. You are just nit picking.0 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Could the added sugar in ice cream be spurring on @dykask appetite, forget about the fat and anything it contains. Ice cream does contain sugar, so omitting this could help control his appetite. I don't find this so hard or confusing to understand..
The confusion is that he says he eliminated sugar and doesn't have raging hunger. Ice cream is more than sugar. The other foods he eliminated I can't say because he hasn't stated exactly what they are. IIRC, salad dressing was one and there's more than sugar in that.
When someone says they stopped eating ice cream because sugar was making them hungry, they can't know that for sure because ice cream is more than just sugar. Unless one tests by eating pure sugar to see if they get raging hunger, they don't know it's just the sugar they are reacting to.
Total nonsense. I know it is the sugar and I have been very clear that additionally I removed added sugar and even had better results. It isn't that hard to just not add any sugar and to mostly eat foods without added sugars.
I not claiming it will work the same for you, but for me it works like a charm. I didn't conduct a study for the general population, I just figured out what worked for me.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Could the added sugar in ice cream be spurring on @dykask appetite, forget about the fat and anything it contains. Ice cream does contain sugar, so omitting this could help control his appetite. I don't find this so hard or confusing to understand..
The confusion is that he says he eliminated sugar and doesn't have raging hunger. Ice cream is more than sugar. The other foods he eliminated I can't say because he hasn't stated exactly what they are. IIRC, salad dressing was one and there's more than sugar in that.
When someone says they stopped eating ice cream because sugar was making them hungry, they can't know that for sure because ice cream is more than just sugar. Unless one tests by eating pure sugar to see if they get raging hunger, they don't know it's just the sugar they are reacting to.
Total nonsense. I know it is the sugar and I have been very clear that additionally I removed added sugar and even had better results. It isn't that hard to just not add any sugar and to mostly eat foods without added sugars.
I not claiming it will work the same for you, but for me it works like a charm. I didn't conduct a study for the general population, I just figured out what worked for me.
It's not nonsense. It's just you don't agree with what I said. I'm not saying you're lying about being hungrier because sugar, but that there's more to ice cream than sugar.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Could the added sugar in ice cream be spurring on @dykask appetite, forget about the fat and anything it contains. Ice cream does contain sugar, so omitting this could help control his appetite. I don't find this so hard or confusing to understand..
The confusion is that he says he eliminated sugar and doesn't have raging hunger. Ice cream is more than sugar. The other foods he eliminated I can't say because he hasn't stated exactly what they are. IIRC, salad dressing was one and there's more than sugar in that.
When someone says they stopped eating ice cream because sugar was making them hungry, they can't know that for sure because ice cream is more than just sugar. Unless one tests by eating pure sugar to see if they get raging hunger, they don't know it's just the sugar they are reacting to.
Total nonsense. I know it is the sugar and I have been very clear that additionally I removed added sugar and even had better results. It isn't that hard to just not add any sugar and to mostly eat foods without added sugars.
I not claiming it will work the same for you, but for me it works like a charm. I didn't conduct a study for the general population, I just figured out what worked for me.
It's not nonsense. It's just you don't agree with what I said. I'm not saying you're lying about being hungrier because sugar, but that there's more to ice cream than sugar.
Fair enough. It is just logical though when one eats less calories and has less hunger there is something else that was going on. People have been nit picking like crazy so I'm getting too defensive.
After my initial positive results my second cut was only added sugar so that is how I'm sure it was just the sugar and not milkfat or chocolate or wax or whatever.0 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup. The ice cream I used to eat in the states was 120 kc / 0.5 cup. A favor my daughter liked was 110 kc. We used to by the single servings very often. They used to sell for $1 when we were living in the states. (Possible those containers were less than 1/2 cup.)
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Another example of someone who actually trains using added sugars. Okay, an elite olympic swimmer who uses chocolate milk. There was a comparison done on chocolate milk a while back and it isn't a bad recovery drink. I'll try to find the study. The point here is simply that added sugars have their place.
https://swimswam.com/qa-jessica-hardy-im-preparing-worlds-biggest-stage/
I never said added sugars couldn't be used or that they would impact others the same as they are impacting me. However most of us aren't training hard for five or six hours a day either.
That's right. You're completely unique and don't experience things the same way as other individuals who have been in your shoes.
Very doubtful. Browsing shows others making the similar claims about the extra sugar driving hunger.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/how-carbs-can-trigger-food-cravings/?_r=0
http://www.webmd.com/diet/20121231/fructose-hunger
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/14/fructose-spurs-overeating.aspx
https://authoritynutrition.com/4-ways-sugar-makes-you-fat/
Thank you for the Mercola reference. You're falling for a quack.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/08/03/15-years-of-promoting-quackery/
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/joe-mercola-quackery-pays/
Directly from the title of the NY Times blog: "How Carbs Can Trigger Food Cravings." No one here (from what I see) is arguing against you having cravings (and that is what this discusses). You're describing those cravings as "extreme hunger" and in other similar ways, and that is what we are taking issue with. There is a difference and you'd be wise to start paying more attention to this difference. And again, in terms of GI, you may want to read the those posts by others above regarding ice cream.
Directly from the WebMD article: "So what does the study mean for health-conscious eaters?
That’s harder to say, says Jonathan Purnell, MD, an endocrinologist at Oregon Health & Science University in Portland. Purnell wrote an editorial on the study but was not involved in the research.
“This study didn’t prove that fructose causes weight gain,” Purnell says. “It doesn’t reflect real-world conditions.”"
Sugar toxicity and false assertions regarding fructose are handled briefly here with references: http://evolvinghealthscience.blogspot.com/2012/04/no-dr-gupta-hummingbird-fuel-is-not.html
You may want to spend time reading through the above and the referenes. I know you won't but it's helpful to follow researchers who are focused on helping atheletes as opposed to researchers focused on scaring the general public. It also helps if the research hasn't been discredited.
I'm not following anyone. I clearly stated browsing the web shows plenty of others. You are just nit picking.
Okay, now we're in troll territory. Best of luck to you. If you ever get serous.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
1 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Another example of someone who actually trains using added sugars. Okay, an elite olympic swimmer who uses chocolate milk. There was a comparison done on chocolate milk a while back and it isn't a bad recovery drink. I'll try to find the study. The point here is simply that added sugars have their place.
https://swimswam.com/qa-jessica-hardy-im-preparing-worlds-biggest-stage/
I never said added sugars couldn't be used or that they would impact others the same as they are impacting me. However most of us aren't training hard for five or six hours a day either.
That's right. You're completely unique and don't experience things the same way as other individuals who have been in your shoes.
Very doubtful. Browsing shows others making the similar claims about the extra sugar driving hunger.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/how-carbs-can-trigger-food-cravings/?_r=0
http://www.webmd.com/diet/20121231/fructose-hunger
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/14/fructose-spurs-overeating.aspx
https://authoritynutrition.com/4-ways-sugar-makes-you-fat/
Thank you for the Mercola reference. You're falling for a quack.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/08/03/15-years-of-promoting-quackery/
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/joe-mercola-quackery-pays/
Directly from the title of the NY Times blog: "How Carbs Can Trigger Food Cravings." No one here (from what I see) is arguing against you having cravings (and that is what this discusses). You're describing those cravings as "extreme hunger" and in other similar ways, and that is what we are taking issue with. There is a difference and you'd be wise to start paying more attention to this difference. And again, in terms of GI, you may want to read the those posts by others above regarding ice cream.
Directly from the WebMD article: "So what does the study mean for health-conscious eaters?
That’s harder to say, says Jonathan Purnell, MD, an endocrinologist at Oregon Health & Science University in Portland. Purnell wrote an editorial on the study but was not involved in the research.
“This study didn’t prove that fructose causes weight gain,” Purnell says. “It doesn’t reflect real-world conditions.”"
Sugar toxicity and false assertions regarding fructose are handled briefly here with references: http://evolvinghealthscience.blogspot.com/2012/04/no-dr-gupta-hummingbird-fuel-is-not.html
You may want to spend time reading through the above and the referenes. I know you won't but it's helpful to follow researchers who are focused on helping atheletes as opposed to researchers focused on scaring the general public. It also helps if the research hasn't been discredited.
I'm not following anyone. I clearly stated browsing the web shows plenty of others. You are just nit picking.
Okay, now we're in troll territory. Best of luck to you. If you ever get serous.
Excuse me but you and a few others have been doing the trolling. Twisting and finding something to attack in every little post.
1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
That is why fruit is probably safe, you have to eat a huge amount of it to get the same effect. Besides that there are a lot of claims around fruit in how it slows or prevents the absorption of fructose.
Anyway GI & GL are about glucose and not fructose. I think people keep confusing glucose (which is vital to our survival) and fructose which we really don't need and can only be metabolized in the liver.1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
That is why fruit is probably safe, you have to eat a huge amount of it to get the same effect. Besides that there are a lot of claims around fruit in how it slows or prevents the absorption of fructose.
Anyway GI & GL are about glucose and not fructose. I think people keep confusing glucose (which is vital to our survival) and fructose which we really don't need and can only be metabolized in the liver.
Again, this side debate was not about YOU and what YOU like. It was about the fact you claimed FOOD with added sugar will enter the bloodstream faster than FOOD that doesn't. That is incorrect. The ice cream/Apple was one example. I used it because someone else had already mentioned it and it was convenient.
Clearly it was a mistake because you had mentioned ice cream as one of the things you cut and apparently can separate the point.
If I wasn't on mobile I might be bother to go get another example of a food that is not ice cream that has added sugar that has a lower GL than a food without added sugar. But, TBH, I doubt it would be worth the effort.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
That is why fruit is probably safe, you have to eat a huge amount of it to get the same effect. Besides that there are a lot of claims around fruit in how it slows or prevents the absorption of fructose.
Anyway GI & GL are about glucose and not fructose. I think people keep confusing glucose (which is vital to our survival) and fructose which we really don't need and can only be metabolized in the liver.
No one cares about the specific ice cream dessert you had. You were talking about ice cream, period. Ice cream has a lower GL which is the amount of blood glucose increase it causes. As such it is a good indication of how fast it digests, since sugar is 50/50 glucose and fructose, the fructose amount is the same as glucose.
Apples, btw. consist of 2/3 fructose, 85% of which is free fructose, the rest from the sucrose (evil table sugar!) in it.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1809/20 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup. The ice cream I used to eat in the states was 120 kc / 0.5 cup. A favor my daughter liked was 110 kc. We used to by the single servings very often. They used to sell for $1 when we were living in the states. (Possible those containers were less than 1/2 cup.)
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
Just stop already...
1 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Another example of someone who actually trains using added sugars. Okay, an elite olympic swimmer who uses chocolate milk. There was a comparison done on chocolate milk a while back and it isn't a bad recovery drink. I'll try to find the study. The point here is simply that added sugars have their place.
https://swimswam.com/qa-jessica-hardy-im-preparing-worlds-biggest-stage/
I never said added sugars couldn't be used or that they would impact others the same as they are impacting me. However most of us aren't training hard for five or six hours a day either.
That's right. You're completely unique and don't experience things the same way as other individuals who have been in your shoes.
Very doubtful. Browsing shows others making the similar claims about the extra sugar driving hunger.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/how-carbs-can-trigger-food-cravings/?_r=0
http://www.webmd.com/diet/20121231/fructose-hunger
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/14/fructose-spurs-overeating.aspx
https://authoritynutrition.com/4-ways-sugar-makes-you-fat/
Thank you for the Mercola reference. You're falling for a quack.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/08/03/15-years-of-promoting-quackery/
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/joe-mercola-quackery-pays/
Directly from the title of the NY Times blog: "How Carbs Can Trigger Food Cravings." No one here (from what I see) is arguing against you having cravings (and that is what this discusses). You're describing those cravings as "extreme hunger" and in other similar ways, and that is what we are taking issue with. There is a difference and you'd be wise to start paying more attention to this difference. And again, in terms of GI, you may want to read the those posts by others above regarding ice cream.
Directly from the WebMD article: "So what does the study mean for health-conscious eaters?
That’s harder to say, says Jonathan Purnell, MD, an endocrinologist at Oregon Health & Science University in Portland. Purnell wrote an editorial on the study but was not involved in the research.
“This study didn’t prove that fructose causes weight gain,” Purnell says. “It doesn’t reflect real-world conditions.”"
Sugar toxicity and false assertions regarding fructose are handled briefly here with references: http://evolvinghealthscience.blogspot.com/2012/04/no-dr-gupta-hummingbird-fuel-is-not.html
You may want to spend time reading through the above and the referenes. I know you won't but it's helpful to follow researchers who are focused on helping atheletes as opposed to researchers focused on scaring the general public. It also helps if the research hasn't been discredited.
I'm not following anyone. I clearly stated browsing the web shows plenty of others. You are just nit picking.
Okay, now we're in troll territory. Best of luck to you. If you ever get serous.
Excuse me but you and a few others have been doing the trolling. Twisting and finding something to attack in every little post.
You spread mis-information, we correct you. If you view it as an attack, the problem is yours...0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup. The ice cream I used to eat in the states was 120 kc / 0.5 cup. A favor my daughter liked was 110 kc. We used to by the single servings very often. They used to sell for $1 when we were living in the states. (Possible those containers were less than 1/2 cup.)
No, I'm not. I eat ice cream regularly and am going by those. The lower cal ones aren't ice cream (frozen yogurt or coconut based or some such) or are the ones that have air to make them seem larger than they really are (and those are most definitely not premium) -- basically with air half a cup ends up being 60 g or so, whereas with a good ice cream like Talenti or B&J or McConnells or Jeni's or any of the many other such options it's going to be more like 100 g.
Anyway, the discussion is about a serving. If you ate more than a serving, whatever, but a serving is half a cup.0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Another example of someone who actually trains using added sugars. Okay, an elite olympic swimmer who uses chocolate milk. There was a comparison done on chocolate milk a while back and it isn't a bad recovery drink. I'll try to find the study. The point here is simply that added sugars have their place.
https://swimswam.com/qa-jessica-hardy-im-preparing-worlds-biggest-stage/
I never said added sugars couldn't be used or that they would impact others the same as they are impacting me. However most of us aren't training hard for five or six hours a day either.
That's right. You're completely unique and don't experience things the same way as other individuals who have been in your shoes.
Very doubtful. Browsing shows others making the similar claims about the extra sugar driving hunger.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/how-carbs-can-trigger-food-cravings/?_r=0
http://www.webmd.com/diet/20121231/fructose-hunger
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/14/fructose-spurs-overeating.aspx
https://authoritynutrition.com/4-ways-sugar-makes-you-fat/
Thank you for the Mercola reference. You're falling for a quack.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/08/03/15-years-of-promoting-quackery/
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/joe-mercola-quackery-pays/
Directly from the title of the NY Times blog: "How Carbs Can Trigger Food Cravings." No one here (from what I see) is arguing against you having cravings (and that is what this discusses). You're describing those cravings as "extreme hunger" and in other similar ways, and that is what we are taking issue with. There is a difference and you'd be wise to start paying more attention to this difference. And again, in terms of GI, you may want to read the those posts by others above regarding ice cream.
Directly from the WebMD article: "So what does the study mean for health-conscious eaters?
That’s harder to say, says Jonathan Purnell, MD, an endocrinologist at Oregon Health & Science University in Portland. Purnell wrote an editorial on the study but was not involved in the research.
“This study didn’t prove that fructose causes weight gain,” Purnell says. “It doesn’t reflect real-world conditions.”"
Sugar toxicity and false assertions regarding fructose are handled briefly here with references: http://evolvinghealthscience.blogspot.com/2012/04/no-dr-gupta-hummingbird-fuel-is-not.html
You may want to spend time reading through the above and the referenes. I know you won't but it's helpful to follow researchers who are focused on helping atheletes as opposed to researchers focused on scaring the general public. It also helps if the research hasn't been discredited.
I'm not following anyone. I clearly stated browsing the web shows plenty of others. You are just nit picking.
Okay, now we're in troll territory. Best of luck to you. If you ever get serous.
Excuse me but you and a few others have been doing the trolling. Twisting and finding something to attack in every little post.
You spread mis-information, we correct you. If you view it as an attack, the problem is yours...
He hasn't read or understood anything posted.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
And this is the reason cutting ice cream and replacing it with something else (even something with more sugar) might fill you up more. If you are a volume eater or find fiber filling, 2.5 apples are going to be more filling for you than a 300 calorie treat that's mostly about half fat and half sugar and low fiber. It would be more filling for me too, but I don't happen to eat ice cream when I'm hungry, so it's irrelevant. Some find apples not filling or claim they increase hunger, but for me they are filling, despite the fact that they have more sugar than my homemade chocolate chip cookie (which I don't find especially filling--more of its calories are from fat than sugar, though, by far).
What makes no sense to me, however, is claiming that you cut out ice cream treats, nuts, and dressing and that your appetite must have decreased because of sugar, when there's more fat in that and from what you've said you still eat quite a bit more sugar than I do, even though I still regularly eat ice cream (2-3 times a week, depending on the week, about 200-250 cal for .5 cup in my favorites).
I also find it bizarre when someone claims to be ravenously hungry when eating plenty of calories and not food insecure, and when someone claims that they get hungry when they add foods to a diet that is otherwise balanced and satisfying. Now, I don't know if your diet fits the latter or not, but when someone claims more hunger because of highly palatable foods being added, I don't think it's actual hunger. It's a craving or otherwise psychological or at least quite unusual. I've never found that eating more food when I wasn't particularly hungry would make me hungry. I suppose if I did I'd stop, but I wouldn't claim that was some truth that others should live or ignore the fact that my diet (in your hypothetical case) continued to include quite a bit of sugar.3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
And this is the reason cutting ice cream and replacing it with something else (even something with more sugar) might fill you up more. If you are a volume eater or find fiber filling, 2.5 apples are going to be more filling for you than a 300 calorie treat that's mostly about half fat and half sugar and low fiber. It would be more filling for me too, but I don't happen to eat ice cream when I'm hungry, so it's irrelevant. Some find apples not filling or claim they increase hunger, but for me they are filling, despite the fact that they have more sugar than my homemade chocolate chip cookie (which I don't find especially filling--more of its calories are from fat than sugar, though, by far).
What makes no sense to me, however, is claiming that you cut out ice cream treats, nuts, and dressing and that your appetite must have decreased because of sugar, when there's more fat in that and from what you've said you still eat quite a bit more sugar than I do, even though I still regularly eat ice cream (2-3 times a week, depending on the week, about 200-250 cal for .5 cup in my favorites).
I also find it bizarre when someone claims to be ravenously hungry when eating plenty of calories and not food insecure, and when someone claims that they get hungry when they add foods to a diet that is otherwise balanced and satisfying. Now, I don't know if your diet fits the latter or not, but when someone claims more hunger because of highly palatable foods being added, I don't think it's actual hunger. It's a craving or otherwise psychological or at least quite unusual. I've never found that eating more food when I wasn't particularly hungry would make me hungry. I suppose if I did I'd stop, but I wouldn't claim that was some truth that others should live or ignore the fact that my diet (in your hypothetical case) continued to include quite a bit of sugar.
And not just any type of hunger, but overpowering, severe, extreme and crushing...6 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
And this is the reason cutting ice cream and replacing it with something else (even something with more sugar) might fill you up more. If you are a volume eater or find fiber filling, 2.5 apples are going to be more filling for you than a 300 calorie treat that's mostly about half fat and half sugar and low fiber. It would be more filling for me too, but I don't happen to eat ice cream when I'm hungry, so it's irrelevant. Some find apples not filling or claim they increase hunger, but for me they are filling, despite the fact that they have more sugar than my homemade chocolate chip cookie (which I don't find especially filling--more of its calories are from fat than sugar, though, by far).
What makes no sense to me, however, is claiming that you cut out ice cream treats, nuts, and dressing and that your appetite must have decreased because of sugar, when there's more fat in that and from what you've said you still eat quite a bit more sugar than I do, even though I still regularly eat ice cream (2-3 times a week, depending on the week, about 200-250 cal for .5 cup in my favorites).
I also find it bizarre when someone claims to be ravenously hungry when eating plenty of calories and not food insecure, and when someone claims that they get hungry when they add foods to a diet that is otherwise balanced and satisfying. Now, I don't know if your diet fits the latter or not, but when someone claims more hunger because of highly palatable foods being added, I don't think it's actual hunger. It's a craving or otherwise psychological or at least quite unusual. I've never found that eating more food when I wasn't particularly hungry would make me hungry. I suppose if I did I'd stop, but I wouldn't claim that was some truth that others should live or ignore the fact that my diet (in your hypothetical case) continued to include quite a bit of sugar.
And not just any type of hunger, but overpowering, severe, extreme and crushing...
How nice for you that you can't relate...0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
And this is the reason cutting ice cream and replacing it with something else (even something with more sugar) might fill you up more. If you are a volume eater or find fiber filling, 2.5 apples are going to be more filling for you than a 300 calorie treat that's mostly about half fat and half sugar and low fiber. It would be more filling for me too, but I don't happen to eat ice cream when I'm hungry, so it's irrelevant. Some find apples not filling or claim they increase hunger, but for me they are filling, despite the fact that they have more sugar than my homemade chocolate chip cookie (which I don't find especially filling--more of its calories are from fat than sugar, though, by far).
What makes no sense to me, however, is claiming that you cut out ice cream treats, nuts, and dressing and that your appetite must have decreased because of sugar, when there's more fat in that and from what you've said you still eat quite a bit more sugar than I do, even though I still regularly eat ice cream (2-3 times a week, depending on the week, about 200-250 cal for .5 cup in my favorites).
I also find it bizarre when someone claims to be ravenously hungry when eating plenty of calories and not food insecure, and when someone claims that they get hungry when they add foods to a diet that is otherwise balanced and satisfying. Now, I don't know if your diet fits the latter or not, but when someone claims more hunger because of highly palatable foods being added, I don't think it's actual hunger. It's a craving or otherwise psychological or at least quite unusual. I've never found that eating more food when I wasn't particularly hungry would make me hungry. I suppose if I did I'd stop, but I wouldn't claim that was some truth that others should live or ignore the fact that my diet (in your hypothetical case) continued to include quite a bit of sugar.
And not just any type of hunger, but overpowering, severe, extreme and crushing...
How nice for you that you can't relate...
Excuse me?
0 -
Have you watched the documentary Fed Up? It's free on Netflix if you are a subscriber. It is well worth watching.0
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DianaDrobnica wrote: »Have you watched the documentary Fed Up? It's free on Netflix if you are a subscriber. It is well worth watching.
Fed Up is agenda based documentary. Just like pretty much all documentaries, agenda based. Lots of cherry picked info in Fed Up.0
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