Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Hot topics! Sugar in fruit
Options
Replies
-
It's as if people need to see you as either "pro" or "con" sugar as opposed to "evidenced based."
I don't eat much sugar on a normal day. For example, I accidentally drank a regular root beer today (I picked it up rather than my normal diet root beer and was halfway through it before I noticed). I don't remember the last time I did that. I also ate yogurt with 20 grams of sugar. Aside from fruit that was it. Some days I'll eat a donut or have a serving or two of ice cream.
When I'm backpacking I eat much more. My calorie consumption can easily go from 2,000-2,500 to 4,000+. That's when sugar becomes fuel. My baseline diet doesn't change much though. We eat homemade trail food that we dry ourselves so the macros are great. I just don't track unless I'm actively losing weight.
I'm pretty sure that level of intake won't cause me to develop type 2 diabetes. I'll let you know though if that changes.
2 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »It's as if people need to see you as either "pro" or "con" sugar as opposed to "evidenced based."
I don't eat much sugar on a normal day. For example, I accidentally drank a regular root beer today (I picked it up rather than my normal diet root beer and was halfway through it before I noticed). I don't remember the last time I did that. I also ate yogurt with 20 grams of sugar. Aside from fruit that was it. Some days I'll eat a donut or have a serving or two of ice cream.
When I'm backpacking I eat much more. My calorie consumption can easily go from 2,000-2,500 to 4,000+. That's when sugar becomes fuel. My baseline diet doesn't change much though. We eat homemade trail food that we dry ourselves so the macros are great. I just don't track unless I'm actively losing weight.
I'm pretty sure that level of intake won't cause me to develop type 2 diabetes. I'll let you know though if that changes.
I don't think I'm really pro or con. In short i have never encouraged people to NOT worry about their sugar consumption, that's pretty much it. If that makes me anti-sugar then so be it
0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »It's as if people need to see you as either "pro" or "con" sugar as opposed to "evidenced based."
I don't eat much sugar on a normal day. For example, I accidentally drank a regular root beer today (I picked it up rather than my normal diet root beer and was halfway through it before I noticed). I don't remember the last time I did that. I also ate yogurt with 20 grams of sugar. Aside from fruit that was it. Some days I'll eat a donut or have a serving or two of ice cream.
When I'm backpacking I eat much more. My calorie consumption can easily go from 2,000-2,500 to 4,000+. That's when sugar becomes fuel. My baseline diet doesn't change much though. We eat homemade trail food that we dry ourselves so the macros are great. I just don't track unless I'm actively losing weight.
I'm pretty sure that level of intake won't cause me to develop type 2 diabetes. I'll let you know though if that changes.
I don't think I'm really pro or con. In short i have never encouraged people to NOT worry about their sugar consumption, that's pretty much it. If that makes me anti-sugar then so be it
You used the term on page 6, after several of us went into great detail about the issue, you completely missed the point and posted about "pro sugar" people with closed diaries. Were you afraid people were hiding tons of sugar consumption or was it a secret stash of vegetables?0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »It's as if people need to see you as either "pro" or "con" sugar as opposed to "evidenced based."
I don't eat much sugar on a normal day. For example, I accidentally drank a regular root beer today (I picked it up rather than my normal diet root beer and was halfway through it before I noticed). I don't remember the last time I did that. I also ate yogurt with 20 grams of sugar. Aside from fruit that was it. Some days I'll eat a donut or have a serving or two of ice cream.
When I'm backpacking I eat much more. My calorie consumption can easily go from 2,000-2,500 to 4,000+. That's when sugar becomes fuel. My baseline diet doesn't change much though. We eat homemade trail food that we dry ourselves so the macros are great. I just don't track unless I'm actively losing weight.
I'm pretty sure that level of intake won't cause me to develop type 2 diabetes. I'll let you know though if that changes.
I don't think I'm really pro or con. In short i have never encouraged people to NOT worry about their sugar consumption, that's pretty much it. If that makes me anti-sugar then so be it
You used the term on page 6, after several of us went into great detail about the issue, you completely missed the point and posted about "pro sugar" people with closed diaries. Were you afraid people were hiding tons of sugar consumption or was it a secret stash of vegetables?
Like i said earlier, I wasn't sure what to expect, which is why i wanted to have a look. Looking at peoples diaries greatly clarified for me where they were coming from with their advice.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »It's as if people need to see you as either "pro" or "con" sugar as opposed to "evidenced based."
I don't eat much sugar on a normal day. For example, I accidentally drank a regular root beer today (I picked it up rather than my normal diet root beer and was halfway through it before I noticed). I don't remember the last time I did that. I also ate yogurt with 20 grams of sugar. Aside from fruit that was it. Some days I'll eat a donut or have a serving or two of ice cream.
When I'm backpacking I eat much more. My calorie consumption can easily go from 2,000-2,500 to 4,000+. That's when sugar becomes fuel. My baseline diet doesn't change much though. We eat homemade trail food that we dry ourselves so the macros are great. I just don't track unless I'm actively losing weight.
I'm pretty sure that level of intake won't cause me to develop type 2 diabetes. I'll let you know though if that changes.
I don't think I'm really pro or con. In short i have never encouraged people to NOT worry about their sugar consumption, that's pretty much it. If that makes me anti-sugar then so be it
You used the term on page 6, after several of us went into great detail about the issue, you completely missed the point and posted about "pro sugar" people with closed diaries. Were you afraid people were hiding tons of sugar consumption or was it a secret stash of vegetables?
Like i said earlier, I wasn't sure what to expect, which is why i wanted to have a look. Looking at peoples diaries greatly clarified for me where they were coming from with their advice.
Fair enough. I thought the posts discussing macros and specific calorie intakes as an example were pretty clear. While it does seem some are "anti sugar," disagreeing with them due to a lack of fear of sugar isn't "pro sugar." I won't belabor the point, it just seemed to be a pretty aggressive statement regarding diaries as opposed to the more polite, "hey, you all mind opening your diaries so we can see specifics?"1 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »It's as if people need to see you as either "pro" or "con" sugar as opposed to "evidenced based."
I don't eat much sugar on a normal day. For example, I accidentally drank a regular root beer today (I picked it up rather than my normal diet root beer and was halfway through it before I noticed). I don't remember the last time I did that. I also ate yogurt with 20 grams of sugar. Aside from fruit that was it. Some days I'll eat a donut or have a serving or two of ice cream.
When I'm backpacking I eat much more. My calorie consumption can easily go from 2,000-2,500 to 4,000+. That's when sugar becomes fuel. My baseline diet doesn't change much though. We eat homemade trail food that we dry ourselves so the macros are great. I just don't track unless I'm actively losing weight.
I'm pretty sure that level of intake won't cause me to develop type 2 diabetes. I'll let you know though if that changes.
I don't think I'm really pro or con. In short i have never encouraged people to NOT worry about their sugar consumption, that's pretty much it. If that makes me anti-sugar then so be it
You used the term on page 6, after several of us went into great detail about the issue, you completely missed the point and posted about "pro sugar" people with closed diaries. Were you afraid people were hiding tons of sugar consumption or was it a secret stash of vegetables?
Like i said earlier, I wasn't sure what to expect, which is why i wanted to have a look. Looking at peoples diaries greatly clarified for me where they were coming from with their advice.
Fair enough. I thought the posts discussing macros and specific calorie intakes as an example were pretty clear. While it does seem some are "anti sugar," disagreeing with them due to a lack of fear of sugar isn't "pro sugar." I won't belabor the point, it just seemed to be a pretty aggressive statement regarding diaries as opposed to the more polite, "hey, you all mind opening your diaries so we can see specifics?"
Point taken 0 -
-
There is more and more research showing that too much sugar is toxic. Almost everything can be toxic, it depends on how much and how fast one is exposed to it.
One of the toxic effects of too much sugar: http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/statistics/
The article you linked to never once states that sugar is toxic, or its consumption causes diabetes. Here is an article that discusses the causes of diabetes 1 and 2:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/diabetes/basics/causes/CON-20033091
There are genetic components to both, and one of the factors that seems to be related to development of type 2 is being fat. Not eating sugar.
There are literally dozens of studies now that point to the chronic toxicity of fructose. Obliviously fructose isn't acutely toxic. Many studies are referenced through http://www.sugarscience.org/ are focus on understanding the effects of fructose. While it is true that there is much to learn and understand, there isn't any doubt that fructose itself can cause non-fatty liver disease which can least to type 2 diabetes, heart disease or liver failure.
So far there hasn't been problems found with eating fruit, but drinking fruit juice can lead to problems.
A flipside of much research going on is that fatty liver disease is often reversible through lifestyle changes. Just like some other chronic toxins, reducing or eliminating exposer allows the body to heal. That is really why research into these areas is vitally important. Still good research doesn't happen overnight, so this is likely to be a story that will slowly develop for the next few decades.0 -
wackyfunster wrote: »Interesting thread!
Answer to OP: An active person can safely consume 50g of Fructose per day, which appears to be the limiting factor in sugar consumption (i.e. you could eat 500g of glucose per day without ill effect assuming adequate nutrition on an isocaloric diet).
50g of fructose is more like the added sugar. Almost every source I've been checking claims fructose in whole fruit isn't an issue because of the fiber in fruit. Since I consume a lot of fruit, I've been checking.wackyfunster wrote: »Interesting thread!
Re: "Sugar makes me hungry." Two points.
1) I think many people, particularly in the overweight population, do not know what actual hunger feels like, and mistakes a psychological craving for food for actual physical hunger. On the other hand, people with severe insulin/leptin resistance (many/most obese individuals) may experience physical hunger even eating at a caloric surplus (fortunately this is resolvable rapidly through visceral fat loss). It is possible that the impaired ability to metabolize sugar plays a role in reports of sugar making people hungry, although that issue is really overshadowed by the larger health concerns such a state brings about.
People "do not know what actual hunger feels like"? Come that is really lame, virtually everyone knows what hunger feels like. It is clear there could be roles played by hormones, lot of research is being done in those areas. It is very possible that too much fructose hitting the liver too fast somehow could cause hormonal issues. Those types of things would probably resolve quickly.
About visceral fat, just how do you lose visceral rapidly? Even normal weight people can have very high levels of visceral fat. This isn't something that is easy to control or even monitor. Subcutaneous fat is easier to measure but even what fat get lost when is totally out of people's control. There is research suggesting cutting down on fructose reduces visceral fat, but I don't think anything has been proven yet.wackyfunster wrote: »Interesting thread!
2) Many people ignore the role of caloric density in satiety. Eating 1000 calories of table sugar will not fill you up the same way eating 1000 calories of cucumber will. The former could be consumed in a matter of minutes and leave the stomach relatively empty, while 1000 calories of cucumber is more than most people could consume in a day. So yes, switching from a 150 calorie soda to 2 pounds of cucumber will result in you being less hungry, despite the fact that the number of calories is the same. Perhaps this is partially due to how rapidly sugar is metabolized, but I suspect it has more to do with the physical presence of food in the stomach. Anecdotally, my last diet was 1250 calories/day as a very active (~10 hrs weight training+3 hours cardio/week) and fairly muscular individual, and I had 0 hunger issues, because it consisted of ~1.5 pounds of chicken, a pound of cucumber, and a small quantity of other foods... it was actually fairly difficult to eat all of that in a day.
Well I have never tried to eat 1000 kc of cucumber, but I sure have tried curbing hunger by eating a lot of carrots. It does work up to a point. At least it gives someone to chew on. Unfortunately it just isn't practical to do all the time and the effects are short lived. One can also end up very bloated after a while and being bloated and hungry is actually pretty awful. However your points about calorie density are dead on.
As for you 1250 kc diet while exercise, I don't think that is a great diet. While you may not have felt hungry, if you are exercising and eating below your BMR you are setting yourself up for muscle loss. No problems with your food choices but the amount of food seems too low, maybe you are a very small person. Also it sounds like you had very little added sugars in your food.0 -
I've been very clear, I initially cut deserts which was mainly ice cream. I stopped snacking then because I didn't need to but that would have been mainly nuts. Past that I then just started cutting added sugars. I really don't understand what your point or issue is.
I'm certain that for me it is the added sugar that was driving my hunger. Now I eat less and have less hunger. My diet is still reasonable sized at around 2200 kc/day.0 -
I've been very clear, I initially cut deserts which was mainly ice cream. I stopped snacking then because I didn't need to but that would have been mainly nuts. Past that I then just started cutting added sugars. I really don't understand what your point or issue is.
I'm certain that for me it is the added sugar that was driving my hunger. Now I eat less and have less hunger. My diet is still reasonable sized at around 2200 kc/day.
So just to be explicitly clear. You were before eating 2400 cals/day and maybe 10% of it was from ice cream. You cut out the ice cream, and didn't replace those calories anywhere else? So your new consumption is 2200, and you have less hunger. But you don't think it is at all related to the fat in the ice cream, just the sugar?2 -
wackyfunster wrote: »Interesting thread!
Answer to OP: An active person can safely consume 50g of Fructose per day, which appears to be the limiting factor in sugar consumption (i.e. you could eat 500g of glucose per day without ill effect assuming adequate nutrition on an isocaloric diet).
50g of fructose is more like the added sugar. Almost every source I've been checking claims fructose in whole fruit isn't an issue because of the fiber in fruit. Since I consume a lot of fruit, I've been checking.
Maybe you should check better sources.
0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »
I've been very clear, I initially cut deserts which was mainly ice cream. I stopped snacking then because I didn't need to but that would have been mainly nuts. Past that I then just started cutting added sugars. I really don't understand what your point or issue is.
I'm certain that for me it is the added sugar that was driving my hunger. Now I eat less and have less hunger. My diet is still reasonable sized at around 2200 kc/day.
So just to be explicitly clear. You were before eating 2400 cals/day and maybe 10% of it was from ice cream. You cut out the ice cream, and didn't replace those calories anywhere else? So your new consumption is 2200, and you have less hunger. But you don't think it is at all related to the fat in the ice cream, just the sugar?
Well it more like 400 to 500 calories cut including stacks. Still I'm eating around 2200 kc a day. That is really more than enough food for most days, I shouldn't be that hungry. I typically burn around 2500 calories a day, so my weight has been dropping slowly. 4kg (9 pounds) in about 3 months. That suggests I'm running about 350 kc deficit.
I haven't really considered the fats in the ice cream or nuts, but in general I would think fat would help with fullness. However when I cut the more sugar I had less hunger. Not adding sugar to oatmeal was a easy cut. Somethings require substitution or just not using like salad dressing. However after a few days I don't miss it. My tastes are shifting, for example I'm not much more likely to just drink water than anything else. It just tastes the best now especially with food. In fact now I don't really want to sweeten my oatmeal. However I do put raisins in it and those are very sweet tasting now.
Human metabolism is really complex, it could easily be a combination of things. When I did experiment I experimented with ice cream, I didn't literally eat sugar. Hunger just isn't an issue now and I fought it for more than 10 years. When I stopped it was always because I couldn't fight the hunger any more.
Before I started this new weight loss, I was basically maintaining. In two years I had gained 4.5 pounds, but it was mostly muscle and I was losing some fat. On a hard workout day I would run a few miles, do about 40 pullups and 100 pushups along with other exercise. It was common for me to burn more than 500kc in a workout. I still workout just as hard, maybe harder but I had to shift exercises because I injured a tendon in my elbow. The elbow injury is about 7 months old, so I don't think the different exercise matters.0 -
FunkyTobias wrote: »wackyfunster wrote: »Interesting thread!
Answer to OP: An active person can safely consume 50g of Fructose per day, which appears to be the limiting factor in sugar consumption (i.e. you could eat 500g of glucose per day without ill effect assuming adequate nutrition on an isocaloric diet).
50g of fructose is more like the added sugar. Almost every source I've been checking claims fructose in whole fruit isn't an issue because of the fiber in fruit. Since I consume a lot of fruit, I've been checking.
Maybe you should check better sources.
Maybe you should share a source that explains why fructose in whole fruit is an issue.
0 -
FunkyTobias wrote: »wackyfunster wrote: »Interesting thread!
Answer to OP: An active person can safely consume 50g of Fructose per day, which appears to be the limiting factor in sugar consumption (i.e. you could eat 500g of glucose per day without ill effect assuming adequate nutrition on an isocaloric diet).
50g of fructose is more like the added sugar. Almost every source I've been checking claims fructose in whole fruit isn't an issue because of the fiber in fruit. Since I consume a lot of fruit, I've been checking.
Maybe you should check better sources.
Maybe you should share a source that explains why fructose in whole fruit is an issue.
The fat in the ice cream slows down the digestion. In other words, it does the same fiber does in fruits.
http://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/glycemic_index_and_glycemic_load_for_100_foods
The glycemic load of ice cream is as low as an apple's.
But yeah, keep saying you "just cut out sugar". [insert smug winky face]
1 -
I've been very clear, I initially cut deserts which was mainly ice cream. I stopped snacking then because I didn't need to but that would have been mainly nuts. Past that I then just started cutting added sugars. I really don't understand what your point or issue is.
I'm certain that for me it is the added sugar that was driving my hunger. Now I eat less and have less hunger. My diet is still reasonable sized at around 2200 kc/day.
Ok let's start with the ice cream. Ice cream is more then just sugar. Mainly, fat sugar and salt. So I will say it a 4th time, "You did NOT just cut out sugar!".
Honestly, what is the confusion here?
The only thing that is clear is you really don't know what drove your perceived hunger...4 -
mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...1 -
I lashed out today after five hours in the pool doing 270 laps.
Had a 100g banana, a quarter of a 700g rockmelon (cantaloupe), 55g pitted cherries and 55g blueberries.
About 50-52g sugar towards my 110g per day limit.0 -
mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.0 -
I've been very clear, I initially cut deserts which was mainly ice cream. I stopped snacking then because I didn't need to but that would have been mainly nuts. Past that I then just started cutting added sugars. I really don't understand what your point or issue is.
I'm certain that for me it is the added sugar that was driving my hunger. Now I eat less and have less hunger. My diet is still reasonable sized at around 2200 kc/day.
Ok let's start with the ice cream. Ice cream is more then just sugar. Mainly, fat sugar and salt. So I will say it a 4th time, "You did NOT just cut out sugar!".
Honestly, what is the confusion here?
The only thing that is clear is you really don't know what drove your perceived hunger...
@dykask why do you keep ignoring this?0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 392K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.8K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.7K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 401 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.8K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.4K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 990 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.4K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions