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Hot topics! Sugar in fruit
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WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!6 -
mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I never claimed that sugar made me suddenly hungry. Saying things like that is creating misinformation.1 -
mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)1 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.1 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.1 -
A half cup IS a tiny serving. 2-3 spoonfuls and it's gone! Just hang on while i find my magnifying glass
3 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)1 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
But the argument isn't about how long it takes to eat or how many calories. Your claim was "Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. " That is not correct.
The sugar in a serving of ice cream is the same speed as the sugar in an apple.
Now you are moving goal posts.4 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
But the argument isn't about how long it takes to eat or how many calories. Your claim was "Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. " That is not correct.
The sugar in a serving of ice cream is the same speed as the sugar in an apple.
Now you are moving goal posts.
That isn't true at all.
http://www.carbs-information.com/glycemic-load-fruit/apple.htm
http://www.carbs-information.com/glycemic-load/ice-cream.htm
That shows that 50g of ice cream has a GL of 8 and 120g apple has a GL of 6. So you get have eat 3.2 times the amount of apple as ice cream to have the same amount of sugar hitting the blood stream.
Most people can't eat 160 g of apple that quickly, it is possible but it isn't easy.
The type of ice cream I enjoyed was covered in really nice milk chocolate. (Much better than the Hersey's stuff)
http://www.carbs-information.com/glycemic-load/milk-chocolate.htm
Anyway 40g milk chocolate, 60 grams ice cream ... GL of 19.6. Yea, that was a lot. If you are using a Glycemic diet, one would try to keep the total GL under 100 or some similar level. Anyway GL of 19.6 for 300 kc, is a pretty rich desert. (It would take more than 3 apples to get the same GL, 392g which is 13.8 ounces)
I used to snack on mostly peanuts. http://www.carbs-information.com/glycemic-load/peanuts.htm, basically no GL, but it sure adds calories.2 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
But the argument isn't about how long it takes to eat or how many calories. Your claim was "Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. " That is not correct.
The sugar in a serving of ice cream is the same speed as the sugar in an apple.
Now you are moving goal posts.
That isn't true at all.
Sigh
http://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/glycemic_index_and_glycemic_load_for_100_foods
Regular ice cream and apples have the same GLThat shows that 50g of ice cream has a GL of 8 and 120g apple has a GL of 6. So you get have eat 3.2 times the amount of apple as ice cream to have the same amount of sugar hitting the blood stream.
Again, math.4 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »
...3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
Now you are moving goal posts.
Actually you have been moving the goal posts even if you don't realize it. I removed 400 to 500 kc from my diet when I started my deficit. While some of that was nuts I no longer snacked on, most of it, 300 kc / day was from my ice cream desert. That isn't a 1/2 cup serving and it can't be compared to an apple. If my desert had been fruit I might not have had the issue with sugar. I would have been hard pressed to eat three large apples a day, not to mention that would be pretty expensive in Japan. After removing the desert I only had about 20 grams / day of added sugars (table, HFCS, etc ...). Now I'm dow to 5g to 10g per day. (Not counting natural sugars). That is actually a pretty comfortable level as I can have some sauces and I don't miss the extra sugar.0 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »
...3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
Now you are moving goal posts.
Actually you have been moving the goal posts even if you don't realize it. I removed 400 to 500 kc from my diet when I started my deficit. While some of that was nuts I no longer snacked on, most of it, 300 kc / day was from my ice cream desert. That isn't a 1/2 cup serving and it can't be compared to an apple. If my desert had been fruit I might not have had the issue with sugar. I would have been hard pressed to eat three large apples a day, not to mention that would be pretty expensive in Japan. After removing the desert I only had about 20 grams / day of added sugars (table, HFCS, etc ...). Now I'm dow to 5g to 10g per day. (Not counting natural sugars). That is actually a pretty comfortable level as I can have some sauces and I don't miss the extra sugar.
Again, you removed ice cream, a hyper palatable food, and all you focus on is the sugar. Bizarre...
1 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »The body is an amazing adaptable machine. Provide it with a basic balance and it tends to know how to function well. No over obsession with any single ingredient is needed as long as there is at least a basic nutritional balance, unless said ingredient is condition-specific (like peanuts for someone with a peanut allergy).
This can't be overstated enough...0 -
FunkyTobias wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
But the argument isn't about how long it takes to eat or how many calories. Your claim was "Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. " That is not correct.
The sugar in a serving of ice cream is the same speed as the sugar in an apple.
Now you are moving goal posts.
That isn't true at all.
Sigh
http://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/glycemic_index_and_glycemic_load_for_100_foods
Regular ice cream and apples have the same GLThat shows that 50g of ice cream has a GL of 8 and 120g apple has a GL of 6. So you get have eat 3.2 times the amount of apple as ice cream to have the same amount of sugar hitting the blood stream.
Again, math.
I gave you the links that matched what I was consuming. It is your problem if you can't accept facts.0 -
I never claimed that sugar made me suddenly hungry. Saying things like that is creating misinformation.
No you did not, here is what you said about sugar and hunger...
"I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger."
"I assure you many have to deal with severe hunger even with modest calorie deficits. It sounds like you don't have that issues and that is great. What I'm not so sure about is if cutting sugar would help others with hunger as much as it helped me."
"By meal time I was experience extreme levels of hunger."
"I found all of that out later when I was trying to figure out why I no longer had the crushing hunger."
The type of hunger you are describing is the type of hunger people who are starving experience...4 -
I never claimed that sugar made me suddenly hungry. Saying things like that is creating misinformation.
No you did not, here is what you said about sugar and hunger...
"I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger."
"I assure you many have to deal with severe hunger even with modest calorie deficits. It sounds like you don't have that issues and that is great. What I'm not so sure about is if cutting sugar would help others with hunger as much as it helped me."
"By meal time I was experience extreme levels of hunger."
"I found all of that out later when I was trying to figure out why I no longer had the crushing hunger."
The type of hunger you are describing is the type of hunger people who are starving experience...
Stop trying to twist things into something they are not. I used to have extreme hunger that would eventually force me to eat more or really suffer until I did eat. I never said I would be suddenly hungry or any other nonsense. If fact after eating I was completely full, it just didn't last very long and when I was hungry is was very a very strong hunger. When I cut the deserts completely and the hunger was much slower in coming and wasn't as strong when it did. I further cut back on added sugars and now I'm only feeling modest hunger if I haven't eaten for 4 or 5 hours. A vast improvement.
All I've done is cut food and sugar and now I have very manageable, I would say normal hunger. The food I cut was ice cream deserts and also nuts but only because I no longer feel the need to snack. Removing more sugar was as easy as not adding any sugar. Now I'm only getting about 5g to 10g a day of added sugars. At this point I haven't removed or added any natural sugars.
Now I rarely feel completely full, but I also don't have the maddening hunger. No doubt in my mind, the extra sugar in my diet was causing me to feel too much hunger. I'm not claiming it would work for other, but it is working for me.
From what I read, people that are starving typically don't feel that much hunger at some point. That is also a hallmark of ketosis based diets, people don't have to count calories because they don't eat as much due to lack of hunger.
I'm sorry that the facts of my experience don't sit well with you, however that is your problem not mine.0 -
Another example of someone who actually trains using added sugars. Okay, an elite olympic swimmer who uses chocolate milk. There was a comparison done on chocolate milk a while back and it isn't a bad recovery drink. I'll try to find the study. The point here is simply that added sugars have their place.
https://swimswam.com/qa-jessica-hardy-im-preparing-worlds-biggest-stage/0 -
I never claimed that sugar made me suddenly hungry. Saying things like that is creating misinformation.
No you did not, here is what you said about sugar and hunger...
"I'm actually much more concerned about a third impact and I have no idea how universal it is. In my case, when I cut deserts which accounted for about 2/3rd the sugar in my diet, my overpowering hunger was greatly reduced. Reducing my added sugar further has helped even more. At least in my case the sugar is driving my hunger."
"I assure you many have to deal with severe hunger even with modest calorie deficits. It sounds like you don't have that issues and that is great. What I'm not so sure about is if cutting sugar would help others with hunger as much as it helped me."
"By meal time I was experience extreme levels of hunger."
"I found all of that out later when I was trying to figure out why I no longer had the crushing hunger."
The type of hunger you are describing is the type of hunger people who are starving experience...
Stop trying to twist things into something they are not. I used to have extreme hunger that would eventually force me to eat more or really suffer until I did eat. I never said I would be suddenly hungry or any other nonsense. If fact after eating I was completely full, it just didn't last very long and when I was hungry is was very a very strong hunger. When I cut the deserts completely and the hunger was much slower in coming and wasn't as strong when it did. I further cut back on added sugars and now I'm only feeling modest hunger if I haven't eaten for 4 or 5 hours. A vast improvement.
All I've done is cut food and sugar and now I have very manageable, I would say normal hunger. The food I cut was ice cream deserts and also nuts but only because I no longer feel the need to snack. Removing more sugar was as easy as not adding any sugar. Now I'm only getting about 5g to 10g a day of added sugars. At this point I haven't removed or added any natural sugars.
Now I rarely feel completely full, but I also don't have the maddening hunger. No doubt in my mind, the extra sugar in my diet was causing me to feel too much hunger. I'm not claiming it would work for other, but it is working for me.
From what I read, people that are starving typically don't feel that much hunger at some point. That is also a hallmark of ketosis based diets, people don't have to count calories because they don't eat as much due to lack of hunger.
I'm sorry that the facts of my experience don't sit well with you, however that is your problem not mine.
Maddening hunger? Really? How many days without eating did it take you to get to the point of this "maddening hunger"?0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Another example of someone who actually trains using added sugars. Okay, an elite olympic swimmer who uses chocolate milk. There was a comparison done on chocolate milk a while back and it isn't a bad recovery drink. I'll try to find the study. The point here is simply that added sugars have their place.
https://swimswam.com/qa-jessica-hardy-im-preparing-worlds-biggest-stage/
I never said added sugars couldn't be used or that they would impact others the same as they are impacting me. However most of us aren't training hard for five or six hours a day either.
0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Another example of someone who actually trains using added sugars. Okay, an elite olympic swimmer who uses chocolate milk. There was a comparison done on chocolate milk a while back and it isn't a bad recovery drink. I'll try to find the study. The point here is simply that added sugars have their place.
https://swimswam.com/qa-jessica-hardy-im-preparing-worlds-biggest-stage/
I never said added sugars couldn't be used or that they would impact others the same as they are impacting me. However most of us aren't training hard for five or six hours a day either.
That's right. You're completely unique and don't experience things the same way as other individuals who have been in your shoes.0
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