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Hot topics! Sugar in fruit
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lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup. The ice cream I used to eat in the states was 120 kc / 0.5 cup. A favor my daughter liked was 110 kc. We used to by the single servings very often. They used to sell for $1 when we were living in the states. (Possible those containers were less than 1/2 cup.)
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
Just stop already...
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Another example of someone who actually trains using added sugars. Okay, an elite olympic swimmer who uses chocolate milk. There was a comparison done on chocolate milk a while back and it isn't a bad recovery drink. I'll try to find the study. The point here is simply that added sugars have their place.
https://swimswam.com/qa-jessica-hardy-im-preparing-worlds-biggest-stage/
I never said added sugars couldn't be used or that they would impact others the same as they are impacting me. However most of us aren't training hard for five or six hours a day either.
That's right. You're completely unique and don't experience things the same way as other individuals who have been in your shoes.
Very doubtful. Browsing shows others making the similar claims about the extra sugar driving hunger.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/how-carbs-can-trigger-food-cravings/?_r=0
http://www.webmd.com/diet/20121231/fructose-hunger
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/14/fructose-spurs-overeating.aspx
https://authoritynutrition.com/4-ways-sugar-makes-you-fat/
Thank you for the Mercola reference. You're falling for a quack.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/08/03/15-years-of-promoting-quackery/
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/joe-mercola-quackery-pays/
Directly from the title of the NY Times blog: "How Carbs Can Trigger Food Cravings." No one here (from what I see) is arguing against you having cravings (and that is what this discusses). You're describing those cravings as "extreme hunger" and in other similar ways, and that is what we are taking issue with. There is a difference and you'd be wise to start paying more attention to this difference. And again, in terms of GI, you may want to read the those posts by others above regarding ice cream.
Directly from the WebMD article: "So what does the study mean for health-conscious eaters?
That’s harder to say, says Jonathan Purnell, MD, an endocrinologist at Oregon Health & Science University in Portland. Purnell wrote an editorial on the study but was not involved in the research.
“This study didn’t prove that fructose causes weight gain,” Purnell says. “It doesn’t reflect real-world conditions.”"
Sugar toxicity and false assertions regarding fructose are handled briefly here with references: http://evolvinghealthscience.blogspot.com/2012/04/no-dr-gupta-hummingbird-fuel-is-not.html
You may want to spend time reading through the above and the referenes. I know you won't but it's helpful to follow researchers who are focused on helping atheletes as opposed to researchers focused on scaring the general public. It also helps if the research hasn't been discredited.
I'm not following anyone. I clearly stated browsing the web shows plenty of others. You are just nit picking.
Okay, now we're in troll territory. Best of luck to you. If you ever get serous.
Excuse me but you and a few others have been doing the trolling. Twisting and finding something to attack in every little post.
You spread mis-information, we correct you. If you view it as an attack, the problem is yours...0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup. The ice cream I used to eat in the states was 120 kc / 0.5 cup. A favor my daughter liked was 110 kc. We used to by the single servings very often. They used to sell for $1 when we were living in the states. (Possible those containers were less than 1/2 cup.)
No, I'm not. I eat ice cream regularly and am going by those. The lower cal ones aren't ice cream (frozen yogurt or coconut based or some such) or are the ones that have air to make them seem larger than they really are (and those are most definitely not premium) -- basically with air half a cup ends up being 60 g or so, whereas with a good ice cream like Talenti or B&J or McConnells or Jeni's or any of the many other such options it's going to be more like 100 g.
Anyway, the discussion is about a serving. If you ate more than a serving, whatever, but a serving is half a cup.0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Another example of someone who actually trains using added sugars. Okay, an elite olympic swimmer who uses chocolate milk. There was a comparison done on chocolate milk a while back and it isn't a bad recovery drink. I'll try to find the study. The point here is simply that added sugars have their place.
https://swimswam.com/qa-jessica-hardy-im-preparing-worlds-biggest-stage/
I never said added sugars couldn't be used or that they would impact others the same as they are impacting me. However most of us aren't training hard for five or six hours a day either.
That's right. You're completely unique and don't experience things the same way as other individuals who have been in your shoes.
Very doubtful. Browsing shows others making the similar claims about the extra sugar driving hunger.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/how-carbs-can-trigger-food-cravings/?_r=0
http://www.webmd.com/diet/20121231/fructose-hunger
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/14/fructose-spurs-overeating.aspx
https://authoritynutrition.com/4-ways-sugar-makes-you-fat/
Thank you for the Mercola reference. You're falling for a quack.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/08/03/15-years-of-promoting-quackery/
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/joe-mercola-quackery-pays/
Directly from the title of the NY Times blog: "How Carbs Can Trigger Food Cravings." No one here (from what I see) is arguing against you having cravings (and that is what this discusses). You're describing those cravings as "extreme hunger" and in other similar ways, and that is what we are taking issue with. There is a difference and you'd be wise to start paying more attention to this difference. And again, in terms of GI, you may want to read the those posts by others above regarding ice cream.
Directly from the WebMD article: "So what does the study mean for health-conscious eaters?
That’s harder to say, says Jonathan Purnell, MD, an endocrinologist at Oregon Health & Science University in Portland. Purnell wrote an editorial on the study but was not involved in the research.
“This study didn’t prove that fructose causes weight gain,” Purnell says. “It doesn’t reflect real-world conditions.”"
Sugar toxicity and false assertions regarding fructose are handled briefly here with references: http://evolvinghealthscience.blogspot.com/2012/04/no-dr-gupta-hummingbird-fuel-is-not.html
You may want to spend time reading through the above and the referenes. I know you won't but it's helpful to follow researchers who are focused on helping atheletes as opposed to researchers focused on scaring the general public. It also helps if the research hasn't been discredited.
I'm not following anyone. I clearly stated browsing the web shows plenty of others. You are just nit picking.
Okay, now we're in troll territory. Best of luck to you. If you ever get serous.
Excuse me but you and a few others have been doing the trolling. Twisting and finding something to attack in every little post.
You spread mis-information, we correct you. If you view it as an attack, the problem is yours...
He hasn't read or understood anything posted.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
And this is the reason cutting ice cream and replacing it with something else (even something with more sugar) might fill you up more. If you are a volume eater or find fiber filling, 2.5 apples are going to be more filling for you than a 300 calorie treat that's mostly about half fat and half sugar and low fiber. It would be more filling for me too, but I don't happen to eat ice cream when I'm hungry, so it's irrelevant. Some find apples not filling or claim they increase hunger, but for me they are filling, despite the fact that they have more sugar than my homemade chocolate chip cookie (which I don't find especially filling--more of its calories are from fat than sugar, though, by far).
What makes no sense to me, however, is claiming that you cut out ice cream treats, nuts, and dressing and that your appetite must have decreased because of sugar, when there's more fat in that and from what you've said you still eat quite a bit more sugar than I do, even though I still regularly eat ice cream (2-3 times a week, depending on the week, about 200-250 cal for .5 cup in my favorites).
I also find it bizarre when someone claims to be ravenously hungry when eating plenty of calories and not food insecure, and when someone claims that they get hungry when they add foods to a diet that is otherwise balanced and satisfying. Now, I don't know if your diet fits the latter or not, but when someone claims more hunger because of highly palatable foods being added, I don't think it's actual hunger. It's a craving or otherwise psychological or at least quite unusual. I've never found that eating more food when I wasn't particularly hungry would make me hungry. I suppose if I did I'd stop, but I wouldn't claim that was some truth that others should live or ignore the fact that my diet (in your hypothetical case) continued to include quite a bit of sugar.3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
And this is the reason cutting ice cream and replacing it with something else (even something with more sugar) might fill you up more. If you are a volume eater or find fiber filling, 2.5 apples are going to be more filling for you than a 300 calorie treat that's mostly about half fat and half sugar and low fiber. It would be more filling for me too, but I don't happen to eat ice cream when I'm hungry, so it's irrelevant. Some find apples not filling or claim they increase hunger, but for me they are filling, despite the fact that they have more sugar than my homemade chocolate chip cookie (which I don't find especially filling--more of its calories are from fat than sugar, though, by far).
What makes no sense to me, however, is claiming that you cut out ice cream treats, nuts, and dressing and that your appetite must have decreased because of sugar, when there's more fat in that and from what you've said you still eat quite a bit more sugar than I do, even though I still regularly eat ice cream (2-3 times a week, depending on the week, about 200-250 cal for .5 cup in my favorites).
I also find it bizarre when someone claims to be ravenously hungry when eating plenty of calories and not food insecure, and when someone claims that they get hungry when they add foods to a diet that is otherwise balanced and satisfying. Now, I don't know if your diet fits the latter or not, but when someone claims more hunger because of highly palatable foods being added, I don't think it's actual hunger. It's a craving or otherwise psychological or at least quite unusual. I've never found that eating more food when I wasn't particularly hungry would make me hungry. I suppose if I did I'd stop, but I wouldn't claim that was some truth that others should live or ignore the fact that my diet (in your hypothetical case) continued to include quite a bit of sugar.
And not just any type of hunger, but overpowering, severe, extreme and crushing...6 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
And this is the reason cutting ice cream and replacing it with something else (even something with more sugar) might fill you up more. If you are a volume eater or find fiber filling, 2.5 apples are going to be more filling for you than a 300 calorie treat that's mostly about half fat and half sugar and low fiber. It would be more filling for me too, but I don't happen to eat ice cream when I'm hungry, so it's irrelevant. Some find apples not filling or claim they increase hunger, but for me they are filling, despite the fact that they have more sugar than my homemade chocolate chip cookie (which I don't find especially filling--more of its calories are from fat than sugar, though, by far).
What makes no sense to me, however, is claiming that you cut out ice cream treats, nuts, and dressing and that your appetite must have decreased because of sugar, when there's more fat in that and from what you've said you still eat quite a bit more sugar than I do, even though I still regularly eat ice cream (2-3 times a week, depending on the week, about 200-250 cal for .5 cup in my favorites).
I also find it bizarre when someone claims to be ravenously hungry when eating plenty of calories and not food insecure, and when someone claims that they get hungry when they add foods to a diet that is otherwise balanced and satisfying. Now, I don't know if your diet fits the latter or not, but when someone claims more hunger because of highly palatable foods being added, I don't think it's actual hunger. It's a craving or otherwise psychological or at least quite unusual. I've never found that eating more food when I wasn't particularly hungry would make me hungry. I suppose if I did I'd stop, but I wouldn't claim that was some truth that others should live or ignore the fact that my diet (in your hypothetical case) continued to include quite a bit of sugar.
And not just any type of hunger, but overpowering, severe, extreme and crushing...
How nice for you that you can't relate...0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
And this is the reason cutting ice cream and replacing it with something else (even something with more sugar) might fill you up more. If you are a volume eater or find fiber filling, 2.5 apples are going to be more filling for you than a 300 calorie treat that's mostly about half fat and half sugar and low fiber. It would be more filling for me too, but I don't happen to eat ice cream when I'm hungry, so it's irrelevant. Some find apples not filling or claim they increase hunger, but for me they are filling, despite the fact that they have more sugar than my homemade chocolate chip cookie (which I don't find especially filling--more of its calories are from fat than sugar, though, by far).
What makes no sense to me, however, is claiming that you cut out ice cream treats, nuts, and dressing and that your appetite must have decreased because of sugar, when there's more fat in that and from what you've said you still eat quite a bit more sugar than I do, even though I still regularly eat ice cream (2-3 times a week, depending on the week, about 200-250 cal for .5 cup in my favorites).
I also find it bizarre when someone claims to be ravenously hungry when eating plenty of calories and not food insecure, and when someone claims that they get hungry when they add foods to a diet that is otherwise balanced and satisfying. Now, I don't know if your diet fits the latter or not, but when someone claims more hunger because of highly palatable foods being added, I don't think it's actual hunger. It's a craving or otherwise psychological or at least quite unusual. I've never found that eating more food when I wasn't particularly hungry would make me hungry. I suppose if I did I'd stop, but I wouldn't claim that was some truth that others should live or ignore the fact that my diet (in your hypothetical case) continued to include quite a bit of sugar.
And not just any type of hunger, but overpowering, severe, extreme and crushing...
How nice for you that you can't relate...
Excuse me?
0 -
Have you watched the documentary Fed Up? It's free on Netflix if you are a subscriber. It is well worth watching.0
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DianaDrobnica wrote: »Have you watched the documentary Fed Up? It's free on Netflix if you are a subscriber. It is well worth watching.
Fed Up is agenda based documentary. Just like pretty much all documentaries, agenda based. Lots of cherry picked info in Fed Up.0 -
DianaDrobnica wrote: »Have you watched the documentary Fed Up? It's free on Netflix if you are a subscriber. It is well worth watching.
This post makes sense under the circumstances of this thread...lol.4 -
wow - I step out for blue angels weekend and this thread blows up into woo woo land...not surprising, given the topic3
-
3dogsrunning wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
That is why fruit is probably safe, you have to eat a huge amount of it to get the same effect. Besides that there are a lot of claims around fruit in how it slows or prevents the absorption of fructose.
Anyway GI & GL are about glucose and not fructose. I think people keep confusing glucose (which is vital to our survival) and fructose which we really don't need and can only be metabolized in the liver.
Again, this side debate was not about YOU and what YOU like. It was about the fact you claimed FOOD with added sugar will enter the bloodstream faster than FOOD that doesn't. That is incorrect. The ice cream/Apple was one example. I used it because someone else had already mentioned it and it was convenient.
Clearly it was a mistake because you had mentioned ice cream as one of the things you cut and apparently can separate the point.
If I wasn't on mobile I might be bother to go get another example of a food that is not ice cream that has added sugar that has a lower GL than a food without added sugar. But, TBH, I doubt it would be worth the effort.
Again the issue isn't glucose. GI/GL is about glucose, not fructose. GI/GL tells you nothing about fructose as it isn't even measured. Claiming it does is just more mis-information. There is a lot theorys and research that seem to support that fruit actually interferes with the absorption of fructose. I could easily post a series of links but someone would blow a gasket again over that.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
That is why fruit is probably safe, you have to eat a huge amount of it to get the same effect. Besides that there are a lot of claims around fruit in how it slows or prevents the absorption of fructose.
Anyway GI & GL are about glucose and not fructose. I think people keep confusing glucose (which is vital to our survival) and fructose which we really don't need and can only be metabolized in the liver.
No one cares about the specific ice cream dessert you had. You were talking about ice cream, period. Ice cream has a lower GL which is the amount of blood glucose increase it causes. As such it is a good indication of how fast it digests, since sugar is 50/50 glucose and fructose, the fructose amount is the same as glucose.
Apples, btw. consist of 2/3 fructose, 85% of which is free fructose, the rest from the sucrose (evil table sugar!) in it.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1809/2
You are spreading misinformation. The metabolism of fructose and glucose are complete different. GI/GL is about glucose, it doesn't tell you anything about fructose. You can't assume they are identical.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
And this is the reason cutting ice cream and replacing it with something else (even something with more sugar) might fill you up more. If you are a volume eater or find fiber filling, 2.5 apples are going to be more filling for you than a 300 calorie treat that's mostly about half fat and half sugar and low fiber. It would be more filling for me too, but I don't happen to eat ice cream when I'm hungry, so it's irrelevant. Some find apples not filling or claim they increase hunger, but for me they are filling, despite the fact that they have more sugar than my homemade chocolate chip cookie (which I don't find especially filling--more of its calories are from fat than sugar, though, by far).
What makes no sense to me, however, is claiming that you cut out ice cream treats, nuts, and dressing and that your appetite must have decreased because of sugar, when there's more fat in that and from what you've said you still eat quite a bit more sugar than I do, even though I still regularly eat ice cream (2-3 times a week, depending on the week, about 200-250 cal for .5 cup in my favorites).
I also find it bizarre when someone claims to be ravenously hungry when eating plenty of calories and not food insecure, and when someone claims that they get hungry when they add foods to a diet that is otherwise balanced and satisfying. Now, I don't know if your diet fits the latter or not, but when someone claims more hunger because of highly palatable foods being added, I don't think it's actual hunger. It's a craving or otherwise psychological or at least quite unusual. I've never found that eating more food when I wasn't particularly hungry would make me hungry. I suppose if I did I'd stop, but I wouldn't claim that was some truth that others should live or ignore the fact that my diet (in your hypothetical case) continued to include quite a bit of sugar.
And not just any type of hunger, but overpowering, severe, extreme and crushing...
Trolling ...0 -
stevencloser wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
That is why fruit is probably safe, you have to eat a huge amount of it to get the same effect. Besides that there are a lot of claims around fruit in how it slows or prevents the absorption of fructose.
Anyway GI & GL are about glucose and not fructose. I think people keep confusing glucose (which is vital to our survival) and fructose which we really don't need and can only be metabolized in the liver.
No one cares about the specific ice cream dessert you had. You were talking about ice cream, period. Ice cream has a lower GL which is the amount of blood glucose increase it causes. As such it is a good indication of how fast it digests, since sugar is 50/50 glucose and fructose, the fructose amount is the same as glucose.
Apples, btw. consist of 2/3 fructose, 85% of which is free fructose, the rest from the sucrose (evil table sugar!) in it.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1809/2
You are spreading misinformation. The metabolism of fructose and glucose are complete different. GI/GL is about glucose, it doesn't tell you anything about fructose. You can't assume they are identical.
Okay, if you have 50 grams of sugar, sucrose, which is made out of 25 grams of glucose and fructose, and it has to be split into glucose and fructose to be metabolized, and we know how fast the glucose of it hits the bloodstream...
what does the fructose do in that time?
The same.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
And this is the reason cutting ice cream and replacing it with something else (even something with more sugar) might fill you up more. If you are a volume eater or find fiber filling, 2.5 apples are going to be more filling for you than a 300 calorie treat that's mostly about half fat and half sugar and low fiber. It would be more filling for me too, but I don't happen to eat ice cream when I'm hungry, so it's irrelevant. Some find apples not filling or claim they increase hunger, but for me they are filling, despite the fact that they have more sugar than my homemade chocolate chip cookie (which I don't find especially filling--more of its calories are from fat than sugar, though, by far).
What makes no sense to me, however, is claiming that you cut out ice cream treats, nuts, and dressing and that your appetite must have decreased because of sugar, when there's more fat in that and from what you've said you still eat quite a bit more sugar than I do, even though I still regularly eat ice cream (2-3 times a week, depending on the week, about 200-250 cal for .5 cup in my favorites).
I also find it bizarre when someone claims to be ravenously hungry when eating plenty of calories and not food insecure, and when someone claims that they get hungry when they add foods to a diet that is otherwise balanced and satisfying. Now, I don't know if your diet fits the latter or not, but when someone claims more hunger because of highly palatable foods being added, I don't think it's actual hunger. It's a craving or otherwise psychological or at least quite unusual. I've never found that eating more food when I wasn't particularly hungry would make me hungry. I suppose if I did I'd stop, but I wouldn't claim that was some truth that others should live or ignore the fact that my diet (in your hypothetical case) continued to include quite a bit of sugar.
And not just any type of hunger, but overpowering, severe, extreme and crushing...
Trolling ...
Don't flatter yourself snowflake. These are your words, not mine...7 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
And this is the reason cutting ice cream and replacing it with something else (even something with more sugar) might fill you up more. If you are a volume eater or find fiber filling, 2.5 apples are going to be more filling for you than a 300 calorie treat that's mostly about half fat and half sugar and low fiber. It would be more filling for me too, but I don't happen to eat ice cream when I'm hungry, so it's irrelevant. Some find apples not filling or claim they increase hunger, but for me they are filling, despite the fact that they have more sugar than my homemade chocolate chip cookie (which I don't find especially filling--more of its calories are from fat than sugar, though, by far).
What makes no sense to me, however, is claiming that you cut out ice cream treats, nuts, and dressing and that your appetite must have decreased because of sugar, when there's more fat in that and from what you've said you still eat quite a bit more sugar than I do, even though I still regularly eat ice cream (2-3 times a week, depending on the week, about 200-250 cal for .5 cup in my favorites).
I also find it bizarre when someone claims to be ravenously hungry when eating plenty of calories and not food insecure, and when someone claims that they get hungry when they add foods to a diet that is otherwise balanced and satisfying. Now, I don't know if your diet fits the latter or not, but when someone claims more hunger because of highly palatable foods being added, I don't think it's actual hunger. It's a craving or otherwise psychological or at least quite unusual. I've never found that eating more food when I wasn't particularly hungry would make me hungry. I suppose if I did I'd stop, but I wouldn't claim that was some truth that others should live or ignore the fact that my diet (in your hypothetical case) continued to include quite a bit of sugar.
And not just any type of hunger, but overpowering, severe, extreme and crushing...
Trolling ...
Don't flatter yourself snowflake. These are your words, not mine...
They were not my words you embellished them. You should be ashamed of your childish behavior.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
And this is the reason cutting ice cream and replacing it with something else (even something with more sugar) might fill you up more. If you are a volume eater or find fiber filling, 2.5 apples are going to be more filling for you than a 300 calorie treat that's mostly about half fat and half sugar and low fiber. It would be more filling for me too, but I don't happen to eat ice cream when I'm hungry, so it's irrelevant. Some find apples not filling or claim they increase hunger, but for me they are filling, despite the fact that they have more sugar than my homemade chocolate chip cookie (which I don't find especially filling--more of its calories are from fat than sugar, though, by far).
What makes no sense to me, however, is claiming that you cut out ice cream treats, nuts, and dressing and that your appetite must have decreased because of sugar, when there's more fat in that and from what you've said you still eat quite a bit more sugar than I do, even though I still regularly eat ice cream (2-3 times a week, depending on the week, about 200-250 cal for .5 cup in my favorites).
I also find it bizarre when someone claims to be ravenously hungry when eating plenty of calories and not food insecure, and when someone claims that they get hungry when they add foods to a diet that is otherwise balanced and satisfying. Now, I don't know if your diet fits the latter or not, but when someone claims more hunger because of highly palatable foods being added, I don't think it's actual hunger. It's a craving or otherwise psychological or at least quite unusual. I've never found that eating more food when I wasn't particularly hungry would make me hungry. I suppose if I did I'd stop, but I wouldn't claim that was some truth that others should live or ignore the fact that my diet (in your hypothetical case) continued to include quite a bit of sugar.
And not just any type of hunger, but overpowering, severe, extreme and crushing...
Trolling ...
Don't flatter yourself snowflake. These are your words, not mine...
They were not my words you embellished them. You should be ashamed of your childish behavior.
You are lost...
Are you saying you did not use those words?0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »Honestly, it sounds like you're conflating cravings for hyperpalatable foods (dessert) with real hunger. If I eat Cheez-Its, I crave more, even if I just had a filling meal.
^This...
No! I've dealt with the hunger for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with cravings. I didn't crave more ice cream or something else. My hunger want more real food. Hunger pains are not cravings. It is amazing to me that some people can't accept a simple fact. What makes you think you can understand the difference between hunger and cravings and I can't?
For me cutting way back on added sugar has greatly reduced my hunger between meals. Typically I don't eat until I'm completely full, so I'll feel like I could eat but don't need to. After 4 or maybe 5 hours normal type hunger starts. That is normal. What used to happen is within two hours of eating I would be feeling seriously hungry. That can't be normal but I sure many people experience it. That probably is why there is so much snacking. I no longer even have the desire to snack.
Once you've dieted down and then bulked and cut some you'll see what people are saying with this. Many of us have been through an adjustment period where we realized what we thought was hunger wasn't really hunger. It won't make sense until you experience it.
That is fine for you, but it isn't me. First my hunger is less than just when I maintaining. Second I know that adding sugar now causes the hunger to come back. I'm not claiming this would be the same for everyone, but it how it works for me.
You are not a special snowflake...
I'm not a snowflake at all. However I'm realizing there is a lot of fruitcake floating around here.
Perfect, resort to name calling. Way to further your hopeless argument...
Read a little ... the attacks on me are pretty nutty.
You are confusing an attack with correcting mis-information.
WHAT you did is working and that is great. Having said that, it is not working for the reasons you THINK it is. You have the HOW confused with the WHAT. It is clear to me that you are beyond reasoning with because you can't fight faith with facts...
You are the one that is ignoring facts and then making up stuff. How I started and where I am today are two different things. It is only added sugar that I'm cutting. Everything else is the same as what I successfully used before to drop close to 30 pounds. When I add sugar I end up being very hungry way too soon. Removing the extra sugar resolves that issue for me.
For some reason you can accept my statement. That doesn't mean I'm wrong and your are right. However I have the facts.
Do you understand that ice cream has more ingredients than just sugar? When you stop eating ice cream you are reducing more than just the sugar. You are reducing calories from sugar as well as fats. Any other desserts that you would cut out would be the same.
You also stopped putting sugar in your oatmeal, but replaced it with raisins. Raisins, like all dried fruits, have high concentrations of sugars. So you didn't really cut your sugar there...
Wrong! Stop assuming things. I have always put raisins in my oatmeal. I cut the sugar. I started with the ice cream but after that I just removed sugar. ONLY SUGAR
Why are so many so hell bent on defending sugar? It is really quite insane.
Because the spread of misinformation makes me twitchy.
If you're SO SURE it's the added sugar specifically (which is weird that you don't have problems with natural sugars from a low-fiber fruit like a banana, or other carbs) and not sugar+fat or sugar+salt or sugar+fat+salt, how about eating 2-3 tbsp of table sugar by itself in between meals and tell us how you feel? If you're suddenly hungry, I recommend writing in to endocrinologists and dieticians so they can study you. Maybe you're the solution to the world's obesity problems!
It isn't weird at all the fruit is okay and I don't know that I wouldn't do even better by cutting back on fruit, I simply haven't tried that. Sugar in fruit is going to be a lot slower getting into the blood stream that sugar added to food. A banana isn't a low fiber as you imply. A typical banana has 3 gram of fiber and one of those grams is soluble fiber which is 1/8 of the minimum soluble fiber one should get daily.
Last night I did look a the effects of cutting back on sugar and at least half the pages mentions reducing hunger. So what I'm describing isn't actually that uncommon.
I might be wrong here, but didn't someone say earlier that ice cream, a food with added sugar, has the similar impact as an apple, a food without added sugar but contains sugar?
ETA - yes, page 10. Stevencloser. I double checked. An apple has almost the same GI as a bowl of ice cream (I chose the option for the premium stuff)
I said ice cream, it wasn't a bowl of ice cream, I don't even know where to buy ice cream like that in Japan. It was typically ice cream bars. My favorite was similar to a Klondike bar, only a lot better chocolate.
Additionally you can't just go by GI, that only indicates per gram. It really doesn't make a difference if the GI is high but only tiny amounts are consumed. GL (glycemic load) is what you should be looking at, that indicates what the impact will be to blood sugar for a serving of something. Then you have to factor in how much of something is eaten. A serving of an apple is pretty large, a serving of ice cream is tiny.
And the glycemic load of an apple vs ice cream is the same, 6.
A serving of ice cream is a half a cup. I do not consider that tiny nor do I consider an apple a large serving.
A typical ice cream bar is 300 kc. That is about 2.5 servings. 2.5 apples takes a lot longer to eat.
There are a lot of reasonable icy treats in Japan, I just wasn't into them. My kids and wife prefer those. (Basically favored ice.)
A serving of ice cream is 1/2 cup. That said, the calories in a serving of ice cream can vary. 300 calories of ice cream is not 2.5 servings...
You are just making things up as you go along. A lot of servings of ice cream are 120 kc. 300 kc / 120 kc = 2.5.
My favorite ice cream when I was in the states was 120 kc in the $1 single server containers ... I know this pretty well.
No, the standard serving size for ice cream is .5 cup, period. The calories range from around 200, on the low end, to over 300. For premium (what we are talking about), I'd assume more fat, so probably closer to 300.
Saying you cut dressing, ice cream, and nuts sure sounds like you are mostly cutting fat, to me. Like I said upthread, a primarily sugary dressing seems weird (and disgusting) to me.
You are doubling, counting 1 cup as a 1/2 cup. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/ice-cream
shows 267 calories in 1 cup.
There is also wide ranges in GI & GL even for the same type of fruit. I don't put much faith in that. For example search on apple: http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
It just depends on the type of ice cream.
Edy's Slow Churned is usually 100-150 cals/serving
Talenti Gelato is 200-250 cals/serving
Ben and Jerrys usually 250-350 cals/serving
The whole debate is absurd. By calories the desert I liked the most in Japan was 300 kc. About 60g ice cream and the rest a rich chocolate covering. 300 kc is 2.5 good sized apples. By claiming higher calories it just means it would take more apples.
And this is the reason cutting ice cream and replacing it with something else (even something with more sugar) might fill you up more. If you are a volume eater or find fiber filling, 2.5 apples are going to be more filling for you than a 300 calorie treat that's mostly about half fat and half sugar and low fiber. It would be more filling for me too, but I don't happen to eat ice cream when I'm hungry, so it's irrelevant. Some find apples not filling or claim they increase hunger, but for me they are filling, despite the fact that they have more sugar than my homemade chocolate chip cookie (which I don't find especially filling--more of its calories are from fat than sugar, though, by far).
What makes no sense to me, however, is claiming that you cut out ice cream treats, nuts, and dressing and that your appetite must have decreased because of sugar, when there's more fat in that and from what you've said you still eat quite a bit more sugar than I do, even though I still regularly eat ice cream (2-3 times a week, depending on the week, about 200-250 cal for .5 cup in my favorites).
I also find it bizarre when someone claims to be ravenously hungry when eating plenty of calories and not food insecure, and when someone claims that they get hungry when they add foods to a diet that is otherwise balanced and satisfying. Now, I don't know if your diet fits the latter or not, but when someone claims more hunger because of highly palatable foods being added, I don't think it's actual hunger. It's a craving or otherwise psychological or at least quite unusual. I've never found that eating more food when I wasn't particularly hungry would make me hungry. I suppose if I did I'd stop, but I wouldn't claim that was some truth that others should live or ignore the fact that my diet (in your hypothetical case) continued to include quite a bit of sugar.
And not just any type of hunger, but overpowering, severe, extreme and crushing...
Trolling ...
Don't flatter yourself snowflake. These are your words, not mine...
They were not my words you embellished them. You should be ashamed of your childish behavior.
Dude, I mean this in the nicest way possible, but are you high? He used your precise word choices. There is no embellishment. He just condensed your adjective choices into a single sentence, likely to show you exactly how absurd you sounded.9
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